The FACTS on Food Stamps

Beans, rice, and peanut butter sandwiches will go a long way in feeding a family.
 
Fox is having a program about food stamps tonight at ten. There will be a surfer dude on the program that will make working people mad.
 
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Beans, rice, and peanut butter sandwiches will go a long way in feeding a family.

No argument there. So will ground beef/turkey/chicken, chicken breasts, legs, thighs, pot roasts and many other sources of protein.

So will fresh greens, corn, potatoes, tomatoes, melons, apples, grapes, oranges, etc.

Oatmeal, eggs, and toasts.

in all mealtimes; breakfast, lunch, dinner; a protein, some fruits and veggies, got a meal.

I'm highly educated and when the possibility of job loss loomed, I began to expand/narrow my previous search results for low sodium to add 'economical/cheap.'

By the time the threat had become reality, had built up a recipe folder of 'cheap eats' that became more economical when broken down into individual servings and freezing.

Soups, chilis, stews, I've got them.

I also know how to go from a roast chicken to the above. Same with a ton of bar-b-que and chilis. Granted I'm not a huge eater, but a pulled roast will net me at least 15 meals. I'm not on snap now, but know through experience, it's possible to have $200 a month allowance and carry over $75 for a single person, without being hungry or nutritionally deficient. Yes, it requires shopping for sales, coupons are a bonus. Enough coupons=dessert or choosing 5 Chobain over 10 Yoplait. Which really is also a choice, no?
 
And you plan for nutrition, not what you'd LIKE to eat...that is a hard one for people who have always been able to satisfy any food craving but you have to do it. I get oatmeal or malt o meal, and by golly breakfast is either that or an egg, and if you don't like it, you don't eat. And when the budget is tight, we might have beans and corn bread 3 or 4 days out of a week...it's a complete protein that is nutritional...it's not haute cuisine, it's not rich and decadent, and the kids might not gorge on it..but they'll eat enough that they go to bed satisfied.

THAT'S the way people are supposed to eat. We aren't designed, and we most (aside from welfare recipients) can't afford lasagna every night and soda every day and deli soups and black forest ham and provolone sandwiches on bakery breads, with out of season avocados and melon salads. Those with limited money should absolutely be restraining themselves and making their food choices CAREFULLY...to save money and optimize on nutrition.
 
Bread is getting more and more expensive too...and the cheap bread is so awful and we go through it so fast, I bake a lot of the bread that we consume. I bake at least once a week, and often more. It doesn't last more than a day or so, but it makes a difference.
 
And you plan for nutrition, not what you'd LIKE to eat...that is a hard one for people who have always been able to satisfy any food craving but you have to do it. I get oatmeal or malt o meal, and by golly breakfast is either that or an egg, and if you don't like it, you don't eat. And when the budget is tight, we might have beans and corn bread 3 or 4 days out of a week...it's a complete protein that is nutritional...it's not haute cuisine, it's not rich and decadent, and the kids might not gorge on it..but they'll eat enough that they go to bed satisfied.

THAT'S the way people are supposed to eat. We aren't designed, and we most (aside from welfare recipients) can't afford lasagna every night and soda every day and deli soups and black forest ham and provolone sandwiches on bakery breads, with out of season avocados and melon salads. Those with limited money should absolutely be restraining themselves and making their food choices CAREFULLY...to save money and optimize on nutrition.

Actually, nothing you've listed couldn't be included in reasonable low cost meal planning for a month's time.

Ground beef at less than $3.00 lb
Pasta: lasagna and spaghetti: Less than $1.50, more likely .99 a lb.

Now lets add for soup: more meatballs, say 2#. More pasta, elbows or ties. .99 a lb
fresh spinach $1.49

Stoplight peppers, bulk or individual best deal: $1.99 lb

garlic, oregano, dried peppers.

Left over meatball and stock:

Add more vegetable or meat stock, spinach or kale, sliced squash, tomatoes, corn, meat. Hot peppers. boil down.

Serve with strips of tortillia and guacamole/sour cream to balance heat.
 
And you plan for nutrition, not what you'd LIKE to eat...that is a hard one for people who have always been able to satisfy any food craving but you have to do it. I get oatmeal or malt o meal, and by golly breakfast is either that or an egg, and if you don't like it, you don't eat. And when the budget is tight, we might have beans and corn bread 3 or 4 days out of a week...it's a complete protein that is nutritional...it's not haute cuisine, it's not rich and decadent, and the kids might not gorge on it..but they'll eat enough that they go to bed satisfied.

THAT'S the way people are supposed to eat. We aren't designed, and we most (aside from welfare recipients) can't afford lasagna every night and soda every day and deli soups and black forest ham and provolone sandwiches on bakery breads, with out of season avocados and melon salads. Those with limited money should absolutely be restraining themselves and making their food choices CAREFULLY...to save money and optimize on nutrition.

Actually, nothing you've listed couldn't be included in reasonable low cost meal planning for a month's time.

Ground beef at less than $3.00 lb
Pasta: lasagna and spaghetti: Less than $1.50, more likely .99 a lb.

Now lets add for soup: more meatballs, say 2#. More pasta, elbows or ties. .99 a lb
fresh spinach $1.49

Stoplight peppers, bulk or individual best deal: $1.99 lb

garlic, oregano, dried peppers.

Left over meatball and stock:

Add more vegetable or meat stock, spinach or kale, sliced squash, tomatoes, corn, meat. Hot peppers. boil down.

Serve with strips of tortillia and guacamole/sour cream to balance heat.

You are making me hungry. I'm going to have a banana.

It's hard to look sophisticated when eating a banana.
 
Bread is getting more and more expensive too...and the cheap bread is so awful and we go through it so fast, I bake a lot of the bread that we consume. I bake at least once a week, and often more. It doesn't last more than a day or so, but it makes a difference.

Me too. I bake my own bread. Use it for meals, including sandwiches. Also for breading meats/fish. I've not bought package croutons or crumbs in the past 5 years.

I often use both, salads and main dish preps.

The breadmaker adds tons, and would pray that all that could benefit and would use would git one.
 
Inspired by Pete's asinine rant on the poor, here is the no-spin facts on SNAP (food stamps). Maybe now you will stop listening to the bullshit propaganda that comes from the Republican party. I put what I consider to be the most important facts in bold, but I do encourage you to read all of it.

SNAP is targeted at the most vulnerable.

76% of SNAP households included a child, an elderly person, or a disabled person. These vulnerable households receive 83% of all SNAP benefits.

SNAP eligibility is limited to households with gross income of no more than 130% of the federal poverty guideline, but the majority of households have income well below the maximum: 83% of SNAP households have gross income at or below 100% of the poverty guideline ($19,530 for a family of 3 in 2013), and these households receive about 91% of all benefits. 61% of SNAP households have gross income at or below 75% of the poverty guideline ($14,648 for a family of 3 in 2013).[ii]

The average SNAP household has a gross monthly income of $744; net monthly income of $338 after the standard deduction and, for certain households, deductions for child care, medical expenses, and shelter costs; and countable resources of $331, such as a bank account.[iii]


SNAP is responsive to changes in need, providing needed food assistance as families fall into economic hardship and then transitioning away as their financial situation stabilizes.

SNAP participation historically follows unemployment with a slight lag. SNAP participation grew during the recession, responding quickly and effectively to increased need. As the number of unemployed people increased by 94% from 2007 to 2011, SNAP responded with a 70% increase in participation over the same period. [iv]

As the economy recovers and people go back to work, SNAP participation and program costs, too, can be expected to decline. Unemployment has begun to slowly fall, and SNAP participation growth has flattened out. The Congressional Budget Office projects SNAP participation to begin declining in 2015, with both unemployment and SNAP participation returning to near pre-recession levels by 2022.[v]

SNAP has a strong record of program integrity.

SNAP error rates declined by 57% since FY2000, from 8.91% in FY2000 to a record low of 3.80% in FY2011.[vi] The accuracy rate of 96.2% (FY2011) is an all-time program high and is considerably higher than other major benefit programs, for example Medicare fee-for-service (91.5%) or Medicare Advantage Part C (88.6%). [vii]

Two-thirds of all SNAP payment errors are a result of caseworker error. Nearly one-fifth are underpayments, which occur when eligible participants receive less in benefits than they are eligible to receive.[viii]

The national rate of food stamp trafficking declined from about 3.8 cents per dollar of benefits redeemed in 1993 to about 1.0 cent per dollar during the years 2006 to 2008.[ix] As you may have read in local news, USDA is aggressively fighting trafficking, but while there are individual cases of program abuse, for every one instance of fraud, there are hundreds of stories of heartbreaking need.

The need for food assistance is already greater than SNAP can fill.

SNAP benefits don’t last most participants the whole month. 90% of SNAP benefits are redeemed by the third week of the month, and 58% of food bank clients currently receiving SNAP benefits turn to food banks for assistance at least 6 months out of the year.[x]

The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal. [xi]

Only 55% of food insecure individuals are income-eligible for SNAP, and 29% are not income-eligible for any federal food assistance.[xii]



Categorical Eligibility

Categorical eligibility allows many people to automatically enroll in SNAP who wouldn’t otherwise qualify for the program.

Categorical eligibility does not allow households to enroll automatically; they must still apply through the regular SNAP application process, which has rigorous procedures for documenting applicants’ income, citizenship, work status, and other circumstances.

Categorical eligibility allows states the option of aligning SNAP eligibility rules for gross income and asset limits with TANF to reduce administrative costs and simplify the eligibility determination process. While three-fourths of SNAP households were categorically eligible, almost all would also have been eligible for SNAP under standard rules.[xiii]

While a small number of households would not have met gross income and asset eligibility rules without categorical eligibility, SNAP families are still among the poorest households:

The average SNAP household has a gross monthly income of $744 and net monthly income of $338.[xiv]
SNAP rules limit eligibility to households with gross income under 130% of poverty and net income at or below 100% of poverty. While categorical eligibility allows states to set a higher gross income limit, only 1.5% of SNAP households in 2010 had monthly net income above 150% of the poverty line, so the policy has not made SNAP available to large numbers of households with incomes above the federal gross income limit of 130% of poverty.[xv]
SNAP rules limit eligibility to households with assets of no more than $2000 ($3250 for households with a senior or disabled member). The average SNAP household still has assets of only $331.[xvi] Additionally, the SNAP asset limit of $2,000 has not been adjusted for inflation in 25 years and has fallen by 48% in real terms since 1986.[xvii]

Categorical eligibility has dramatically increased program participation.

The dramatic increase in SNAP participation and costs is a result of the recession, not categorical eligibility. Our nation has seen the highest unemployment rates in nearly 30 years.

The dramatic increase in SNAP participation and costs is a result of the recession, not categorical eligibility. Our nation has seen the highest unemployment rates in nearly 30 years.
SNAP participation historically follows unemployment with a slight lag. SNAP participation grew during the recession, responding quickly and effectively to increased need. As the number of unemployed people increased by 94% from 2007 to 2011, SNAP responded with a 70% increase in participation over the same period. [xviii]

As the economy recovers and people go back to work, SNAP participation and program costs, too, can be expected to decline. Unemployment has begun to slowly fall, and SNAP participation growth has flattened out. The Congressional Budget Office projects SNAP participation to begin declining in 2015, with both unemployment and SNAP participation returning to near pre-recession levels by 2022.[xix]

Eliminating categorical eligibility would significantly reduce costs.

Eliminating categorical eligibility would achieve savings by causing about 2-3 million low-income people currently enrolled in SNAP to lose their benefits.[xx] Many more families newly applying for assistance would have their benefit issuance delayed because of the increased complexity of applying and additional processing time required. This human cost is too high a price to pay with so many families struggling to get by in this economy.

In addition to the loss of needed food assistance for struggling families, this savings would come at the expense of increased administrative costs. Eliminating the streamlined application process that categorical eligibility allows would require states to allocate staff time to duplicate enrollment procedures and incur the cost of modifying their computer systems, reprinting applications and manuals, and retraining staff.


Program Growth

Generous eligibility rules and program fraud and abuse have caused participation in SNAP to balloon, sharply driving up the cost of the program when the nation can least afford it.


The dramatic increase in SNAP participation and costs is a result of the recession, not categorical eligibility. Our nation has seen the highest unemployment rates in nearly 30 years.

SNAP participation historically follows unemployment with a slight lag. SNAP participation grew during the recession, responding quickly and effectively to increased need. As the number of unemployed people increased by 94% from 2007 to 2011, SNAP responded with a 70% increase in participation over the same period. [xxi]

As the economy recovers and people go back to work, SNAP participation and program costs, too, can be expected to decline. Unemployment has begun to slowly fall, and SNAP participation growth has flattened out. The Congressional Budget Office projects SNAP participation to begin declining in 2015, with both unemployment and SNAP participation returning to near pre-recession levels by 2022.[xxii]


SNAP (Food Stamps): Facts, Myths and Realities

(Their sources are straight from government data)


b
 
And you plan for nutrition, not what you'd LIKE to eat...that is a hard one for people who have always been able to satisfy any food craving but you have to do it. I get oatmeal or malt o meal, and by golly breakfast is either that or an egg, and if you don't like it, you don't eat. And when the budget is tight, we might have beans and corn bread 3 or 4 days out of a week...it's a complete protein that is nutritional...it's not haute cuisine, it's not rich and decadent, and the kids might not gorge on it..but they'll eat enough that they go to bed satisfied.

THAT'S the way people are supposed to eat. We aren't designed, and we most (aside from welfare recipients) can't afford lasagna every night and soda every day and deli soups and black forest ham and provolone sandwiches on bakery breads, with out of season avocados and melon salads. Those with limited money should absolutely be restraining themselves and making their food choices CAREFULLY...to save money and optimize on nutrition.

Actually, nothing you've listed couldn't be included in reasonable low cost meal planning for a month's time.

Ground beef at less than $3.00 lb
Pasta: lasagna and spaghetti: Less than $1.50, more likely .99 a lb.

Now lets add for soup: more meatballs, say 2#. More pasta, elbows or ties. .99 a lb
fresh spinach $1.49

Stoplight peppers, bulk or individual best deal: $1.99 lb

garlic, oregano, dried peppers.

Left over meatball and stock:

Add more vegetable or meat stock, spinach or kale, sliced squash, tomatoes, corn, meat. Hot peppers. boil down.

Serve with strips of tortillia and guacamole/sour cream to balance heat.

We definitely have more food available to us than we know what to do with...but my point is that we don't have to *feast* 24/7. Yes if you plan ahead of time, you can certainly enjoy lasagna...but that doesn't mean if you crave it right now, you have a right to it just because you want it, and someone else should foot the bill if you can't...it's sort of a fine point but do you see what I'm getting at? I feed my kids well on a really limited budget...but we don't act on every little food whim, and when I'm tired, strapped for time and money' tight, our meals are verrry simple. And nobody should feel badly about that! It's the way humans have always eaten...you subsist on a few staples, and the elaborate stuff is for HOLIDAYS. I swear I can remember the first time I had pizza at a pizza place...I was a teenager! We had fast food MAYBE once every two months, and we drove 60 miles to get it, lol. Spaghetti was a "special" meal in our house...during the week we ate homemade stew, beans, chili, soups, roasts and fried potatoes, fried potatoes, boiled potatoes and fried potatoes, lol. And we never ever went hungry, and we didn't have rickets or scurvy, lol. Sometimes dinner was corn meal mush (us and the dogs, haha) but that was the way it was, and we never considered ourselves *hungry*. By today's standards, used to terrify everybody into over funding welfare, we were starving. I had half a peanut butter sandwich and a banana every single day for lunch (for years)...we didn't have free lunches...our school didn't have a cafeteria, and nobody EVER considered us "hungry".
 
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If I had no food in the house when my kids were little and that would be a family of 5 my neighbors, my family and my friends would be making sure my family is not hungry.
That is what a community is supposed to do.
So why are we not doing that and relying almost solely on government to provide food and give the community and families a free pass on what they are supposed to do?
That is the real problem with Americans today, the majority of them.
Fuck doing any charitable work, helping friends and family and community when they are in need, fuck them, I do not have time for them.
I want government to take care of them and I will pay a little extra in taxes so I do not have to be inconvenienced by the lower classes.
That is what they are saying.
 
Plus they're calling it "hunger" when Bubba can't run down to the corner grocery and pick up a bakery birthday cake and steak dinner at the end of the month, and has to settle for chicken soup instead, or when the kids get up and skip breakfast because they're out of Lucky Charms or milk.

That's not hunger.
 
My family, if anyone of them in the 70+ was on any form of welfare or food stamps we would not judge them if they had them.
But none of them are on them because they know that they can come to anyone of us and we will provide food.
Same with my community, we will feed the hungry.
The rest of you fucks here pass the buck on what you should be doing and sharing with your friends and families.
Govern yourself accordingly. The nation is going downhill by you forcing friends and family to become dependent on government.
 
And you plan for nutrition, not what you'd LIKE to eat...that is a hard one for people who have always been able to satisfy any food craving but you have to do it. I get oatmeal or malt o meal, and by golly breakfast is either that or an egg, and if you don't like it, you don't eat. And when the budget is tight, we might have beans and corn bread 3 or 4 days out of a week...it's a complete protein that is nutritional...it's not haute cuisine, it's not rich and decadent, and the kids might not gorge on it..but they'll eat enough that they go to bed satisfied.

THAT'S the way people are supposed to eat. We aren't designed, and we most (aside from welfare recipients) can't afford lasagna every night and soda every day and deli soups and black forest ham and provolone sandwiches on bakery breads, with out of season avocados and melon salads. Those with limited money should absolutely be restraining themselves and making their food choices CAREFULLY...to save money and optimize on nutrition.

Actually, nothing you've listed couldn't be included in reasonable low cost meal planning for a month's time.

Ground beef at less than $3.00 lb
Pasta: lasagna and spaghetti: Less than $1.50, more likely .99 a lb.

Now lets add for soup: more meatballs, say 2#. More pasta, elbows or ties. .99 a lb
fresh spinach $1.49

Stoplight peppers, bulk or individual best deal: $1.99 lb

garlic, oregano, dried peppers.

Left over meatball and stock:

Add more vegetable or meat stock, spinach or kale, sliced squash, tomatoes, corn, meat. Hot peppers. boil down.

Serve with strips of tortillia and guacamole/sour cream to balance heat.

We definitely have more food available to us than we know what to do with...but my point is that we don't have to *feast* 24/7. Yes if you plan ahead of time, you can certainly enjoy lasagna...but that doesn't mean if you crave it right now, you have a right to it just because you want it, and someone else should foot the bill if you can't...it's sort of a fine point but do you see what I'm getting at? I feed my kids well on a really limited budget...but we don't act on every little food whim, and when I'm tired, strapped for time and money' tight, our meals are verrry simple. And nobody should feel badly about that! It's the way humans have always eaten...you subsist on a few staples, and the elaborate stuff is for HOLIDAYS. I swear I can remember the first time I had pizza at a pizza place...I was a teenager! We had fast food MAYBE once every two months, and we drove 60 miles to get it, lol. Spaghetti was a "special" meal in our house...during the week we ate homemade stew, beans, chili, soups, roasts and fried potatoes, fried potatoes, boiled potatoes and fried potatoes, lol. And we never ever went hungry, and we didn't have rickets or scurvy, lol. Sometimes dinner was corn meal mush (us and the dogs, haha) but that was the way it was, and we never considered ourselves *hungry*. By today's standards, used to terrify everybody into over funding welfare, we were starving. I had half a peanut butter sandwich and a banana every single day for lunch (for years)...we didn't have free lunches...our school didn't have a cafeteria, and nobody EVER considered us "hungry".

and while you seemed to be disagreeing with me, we are in perfect agreement. Truth is a 'real allotment' of SNAP pretty much fits what your mom did. What I did with my kids and to some degree, what I do as a single.

Most mornings it's coffee, oatmeal with fruit, nuts, honey or brown sugar. Might be toast or whole grain cereal instead, 2 out of 14 days. If still hungry, will add yogurt.

Snack: yogurt, nuts, or fruit.

Lunch: may be sandwich, soup, chili, stew, or pasta dish. Yogurt or fruit and cottage cheese; string cheese. Vitamin water.

Dinner: salad or some protein and starch + veggie and fruit. Generally I like my dinner to be fresh from crock pot or grill, serving 6-8. Leftovers fit into lunches over the course of week, out of the freezer.

A 'prepared rotisserie chicken' $5 for Friday, will net 2 dinners and 3-4 lunches for me. The 'included sides' from Friday will fit also on Sat or Sun. While not a 'guy' eating, I don't eat like a bird. I can and have eaten a half chicken at sitting, but not with a couple veggies, salad, and potato. Make that chicken to a 1/4. It's all about cost, availability, and diet.

What do you want, what do you want to pay for it? Those are the absent queries I'm noticing at my job from those on SNAP. While I debate with myself between a $1.99 canned 1/4 ham from convenience with coupon to 1/4 #Krakus ham at $5 a pound thick sliced from deli, the idea of spending over $2 on 'water' is crazy to me. Actually, never an issue.

I like Vitamin Water, never pay more than $.89 then add 15% discount. I don't buy unless on sale. I always have bottled water on hand, pay no more than $2.99 less 15% for 24 bottles. If I don't have flavored water, plain will do. With that in mind, I use Chrystal Light or Dysani flavors to bottled water. Only buy on sale and with my discount. For basically $3 I can flavor 60 bottles of water. Not 'enriched' but tasty.
 
We have people here on internet now with family and friends in need and they do nothing.
They should be making a plan right now to help feed their hungry and in need family, friends and community.
Instead they are saying "FUCK YOU, I am arguing with people about the benefits of government running folks' lives on the internet. I will save the world and will legally steal money from others so I can sit on fat, lazy ass. Let taxpayers do it. I have no time for the lower classes".
 
Lower is relative.

Most of the members of my family don't have a clue where the welfare office is in this town where we've had family members living for a hundred years! My auntie doesn't know the difference between the food share that operates out of a church across from the nursing home, and DHS. She thought they were one and the same because she has never in any of her 89 years on this earth considered getting welfare or a food box, and neither has anyone that she knows....and they are not rich people...definitely under the 185 fpl percentage.
 
Geez, most Americans are weenies these days. We are supposed to help each other. You see someone down on their luck you are supposed to help them and not point them to some government agency with a bureaucrat sending out a check or putting money on a fucking card.
We have become a selfish nation passing the buck to government.
"I do not have time for you. Fuck you. Call the government."
 
If I had no food in the house when my kids were little and that would be a family of 5 my neighbors, my family and my friends would be making sure my family is not hungry.
That is what a community is supposed to do.
So why are we not doing that and relying almost solely on government to provide food and give the community and families a free pass on what they are supposed to do?
That is the real problem with Americans today, the majority of them.
Fuck doing any charitable work, helping friends and family and community when they are in need, fuck them, I do not have time for them.
I want government to take care of them and I will pay a little extra in taxes so I do not have to be inconvenienced by the lower classes.
That is what they are saying.

I agree with you to a large extent. At the same time I think it's important that the main caretaker of the home, understand what needs to be done to care for his/her/their family. Some examples of stretching your 'food dollars'"

Oatmeal with dried fruit, (cranberries, raisins, blueberries, apricots, etc), touch of brown sugar, milk. Bake, microwave, or cook on counter top.

Lunch: Mostly dinner leftovers. Other: cheese and crackers, tuna and crackers or cocktail rye; veggies and dips; peanut butter and jelly, add some veggies and fruit to round out.

Ham
Potatoes
Carrots/root veggies
green beans
corn bread

Sunday meal makings above. Afterwards, take ham bone, left over ham, veggies, cleaned split peas, couple cups stock and couple cups water into crockpot. Heat on high for 6 hours, clean bone.

Freeze leftovers into individual containers.

Spaghetti and Meatballs.

Make enough meatballs for 3X dinner. Garlic bread and salad.
Add appropriate sour cream and spices and noodles for second meal.
Add meatballs, marinara sauce and Italian or Sandwich rolls with pasta sauce, salad and fruit for 3rd dinner.

Chuck Roast potted in crock pot with veggies. Serve with salad and bread.
Add leftovers to crockpot, add potatoes, carrots, celery. Beef stock. Low for 4 hours.
freeze any leftovers in individual containers for lunch.

Turkey breast, potatoes, beans, broccoli, cauliflower, squash.

Roast breast and potatoes. Sprinkle olive oil and red pepper flakes over cut up veggies and bake for last hour with breast and potatoes.

Left overs can be made into salad, sandwiches, or turkey and gravy over bread, rice, or noodles. Can be frozen for lunch portions.

Ground beef, noodles, and mushroom soup. Left overs can be nuked and put into thermos. Add some fresh salad or cut up fruits and veggies. Buttered bread is also filling, especially in cold weather.

Nothing difficult, heck most can be made with just a crockpot or microwave. If cooking for 3-5, less than $500 will provide more than enough for all 3 meals. If kids are in 'food program' they'll probably say, "Skip that, pack this!" As it should be.
 

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