The Failure of Gun Control Comes Home

[Pogo]

In your world you'd be shot within five minutes of passing such a law.

Nope, because in my world everyone was told we know who you are, and we do, so either turn in your guns or die? It's not complicated.

you need to stop buttchugging you stupid fairy. in your world you are sodomized by unicorns and given oral sex by DoDo birds.

lets stick to reality you silly twit

The reality is in the end I will get the guns just like the faggots can now marry, and there's a not a fucking you thing you can do about it.

yeah there is

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS
WHAT WE HAVE GOT
IS THE FIREPOWER
AND YOU HAVE NOT

push comes to shove-you gun haters are gonna end up looking like swiss cheese

right now its funny watching fairies bray about men with guns taking away guns from other people

guys like you would soil your nylons if you were told you had to do your own dirty work meaning you'd have to break down the doors of gun owners and risk getting your tits shot off

A perfect example of the mindset of the pro-gun people. Very enlightening. True colors.

Indeed. I pointed that out before in a reply to the "poem" above. Which mysteriously disappeared.
Went something like,

Da Dude doth whine
And piss and moan
Drowning in his own
Testosterone

Burma Shave

Watch the gun fetishists 'disappear' that one too...

 

[Pogo]

How about you share some kind of link? White European countries seems to have lower rates of gun homicides.

you constantly attempt to debate gun issues with us. You should know that it is black inner city gun violence that causes our supposedly high rate of gun violence. We white americans-who have the largest percentage of legally armed private civilians in the known first world, don't have many problems with guns. SO "SOLUTIONS" that are intended or have the affect of limiting our gun ownership have no merit when it comes to crime control

We are discussing the fact that countries with few guns have lower gun crime rates. Now if you can post something to dispute that please do, but so far you have nothing as usual.

no we are discussing the myth that increased gun control in the USA will decrease crime

That's the angle you wish to argue, but maybe, just maybe, that's not the only angle.

Consider that that hypothetical country with fewer firearms -- doesn't have fewer because it's mandated to have fewer, but because they're simply not the obsession there that they are here. In other words their law doesn't cause that dearth of firearms; rather it follows and reflects that sentiment that preceded it.

Follow me? In other words the same reason guns are scarce is the reason the law exists, and that is that in both cases the citizenry doesn't want them around. The law and the not-having of them are two manifestations of the same sentiment.

I think you might be looking at a result (the law) and calling it a causation, when it's the other way round.

I think your argument has no merit

What I'm telling you is that of the two elements out of which you've chosen the causation you'd like to believe...
you may have the cart before the horse.

The burden is on you to show it isn't.

 

[Pogo]

Nope, because in my world everyone was told we know who you are, and we do, so either turn in your guns or die? It's not complicated.

you need to stop buttchugging you stupid fairy. in your world you are sodomized by unicorns and given oral sex by DoDo birds.

lets stick to reality you silly twit

The reality is in the end I will get the guns just like the faggots can now marry, and there's a not a fucking you thing you can do about it.

yeah there is

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS
WHAT WE HAVE GOT
IS THE FIREPOWER
AND YOU HAVE NOT

push comes to shove-you gun haters are gonna end up looking like swiss cheese

right now its funny watching fairies bray about men with guns taking away guns from other people

guys like you would soil your nylons if you were told you had to do your own dirty work meaning you'd have to break down the doors of gun owners and risk getting your tits shot off

A perfect example of the mindset of the pro-gun people. Very enlightening. True colors.

we tend to be honest

you gun haters should try it sometime rather than pretending you are trying to stop criminals

 

[Pogo]

Looking at some of the posts above ...

Unlike some here in the US, the French are not terrified of leaving their home without a gun.

I'll bet a bunch of them are givign that one second thoughts now. I know they are.

Yes they are for sure thinking they need to flood the country with more guns like us so they have shootings daily.

why not-more guns less crime

good people shooting criminals is GOOD

why not fewer people shooting people is GOODER

[sic]

 

[Ernie S.]

"Gun control" is neither our problem nor our solution.

Gun fetishism -- that's our problem.

There's no gun fetishism, but there is a gun culture.

Well you're half right. They're the same thing.
Or to be technically correct, the latter is the inevitable product of the former. But neither exists without the other.

No! The former exists only in your imagination. The latter exists in out inner cities. Your Liberal friends in Hollywood and your beloved rappers on radio glorify guns. I just carry one to protect myself from the product of Liberal governance.

 

[Pogo]

you need to stop buttchugging you stupid fairy. in your world you are sodomized by unicorns and given oral sex by DoDo birds.

lets stick to reality you silly twit

The reality is in the end I will get the guns just like the faggots can now marry, and there's a not a fucking you thing you can do about it.

yeah there is

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS
WHAT WE HAVE GOT
IS THE FIREPOWER
AND YOU HAVE NOT

push comes to shove-you gun haters are gonna end up looking like swiss cheese

right now its funny watching fairies bray about men with guns taking away guns from other people

guys like you would soil your nylons if you were told you had to do your own dirty work meaning you'd have to break down the doors of gun owners and risk getting your tits shot off

A perfect example of the mindset of the pro-gun people. Very enlightening. True colors.

we tend to be honest

you gun haters should try it sometime rather than pretending you are trying to stop criminals

Pretty funny. So, because you sit around and dream about blowing people away and turning them into Swiss cheese, you think others do too, particularly liberals and anti-gun people? People who have ugly minds, like you, often think everyone is the same; sorry, but it isn't true.

More problematic I think is a clue in the last post of his I quoted --- he thinks there are two irreconcilable classes of people, the good guys in the white hats and the bad guys in the black hats, i.e. the "we" and the "they". I think these dichotomized infants actually believe these are two different species condemned so in perpetuity, and never the twain shall meet. That is after all why we're the Liberals and they're not.

I really think that's the root of it, the hurdle that has to be overcome.
Just watch, I'll bet he comes back and confirms it.

 

[Pogo]

gun hater logic

1) people who don't obey laws against robbery and murder and aren't deterred by the threat of 20-life in prison will be deterred from getting a gun over the threat of a couple years in prison

2) people who have never violated substantive criminal law, need other laws targeting them to stop them from doing the harm with weapons they have never committed while owing guns

Absurd.

right you are-its absurd to think that people who commit felonies are more likely to be disarmed by gun bans than honest people who conscientiously follow the laws

Correct.

.... and??

Actually, the less guns there are in circulation, the less likely criminals have access to guns. In countries where there are strict gun laws, the criminals also have less guns.

Except that gun control laws do not change homicide rates at all. They certainly do not bring down other crime rates as well.

This is the case over and over and over again everywhere gun control is tried. It simply does not pan out.

Without delving into specifics of wherever you're referring to, just an observation:
The term "gun control" implies a pre-existing problem. Something that needs to be "controlled" is something that's by definition already out of hand. e.g. we call the fire department when the building is in flames, and they get it under control to prevent the whole city going up, but damage is already done.

And as you remember from our convos on this in the past, my stance is that throwing laws at something that's already out of hand is tantamount to slamming the barn door after the horse is already gone. It's a feelgood line in a speech but has little significance once the speech is over.

However, that said --
what you just posted is not necessarily the logical counter to what she just said.
See post 216; correlation is not always causation.

 

[Ernie S.]

you need to stop buttchugging you stupid fairy. in your world you are sodomized by unicorns and given oral sex by DoDo birds.

lets stick to reality you silly twit

The reality is in the end I will get the guns just like the faggots can now marry, and there's a not a fucking you thing you can do about it.

yeah there is

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS
WHAT WE HAVE GOT
IS THE FIREPOWER
AND YOU HAVE NOT

push comes to shove-you gun haters are gonna end up looking like swiss cheese

right now its funny watching fairies bray about men with guns taking away guns from other people

guys like you would soil your nylons if you were told you had to do your own dirty work meaning you'd have to break down the doors of gun owners and risk getting your tits shot off

A perfect example of the mindset of the pro-gun people. Very enlightening. True colors.

we tend to be honest

you gun haters should try it sometime rather than pretending you are trying to stop criminals

Pretty funny. So, because you sit around and dream about blowing people away and turning them into Swiss cheese, you think others do too, particularly liberals and anti-gun people? People who have ugly minds, like you, often think everyone is the same; sorry, but it isn't true.

I have had a nightmare about being forced to blow someone away. I find the thought horrifying and hope I never have to go through it.
At the same time, as a man, I respect the fact that it is my responsibility to protect my home and family because I can only depend on the police showing up in the nick of time to carry my wife out in a body bag.
I own a bar. We serve alcohol to 2 AM 7 nights a week. At closing, there is a lot of cash and a lot of people who's judgment may be slightly impaired by the booze. I have female bartenders who happen to be incredibly attractive women, but not much good in a fight.
All male staff are armed at all times for our protection and for the protection of our guests. At 2 AM, we become an open carry establishment. Our weapons come out and are carried on our hips to let anyone who may get a strange idea that they had better go elsewhere.. As patrons leave, one or more staff will walk them to their vehicles.
Female staff have an escort if they need to leave the building before we lock the doors and turn out the lights.
If I'm there at closing, I am generally driving someone home that has been too good of a customer. If a DD isn't available, a taxi is called. We guarantee the bill.
No one has ever bitched about the display of 4 or 5 firearms, mainly because no one has ever been mugged leaving the building and no one has even landed a punch in the place since we opened up.

I take my responsibility to my customers and my business very seriously. Like I said; I find the idea of being put in a position where I'm forced to shoot someone, horrifying, BUT, I am responsible and will fulfill my responsibility if the need arises.

 

[Ernie S.]

The reality is in the end I will get the guns just like the faggots can now marry, and there's a not a fucking you thing you can do about it.

yeah there is

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS
WHAT WE HAVE GOT
IS THE FIREPOWER
AND YOU HAVE NOT

push comes to shove-you gun haters are gonna end up looking like swiss cheese

right now its funny watching fairies bray about men with guns taking away guns from other people

guys like you would soil your nylons if you were told you had to do your own dirty work meaning you'd have to break down the doors of gun owners and risk getting your tits shot off

A perfect example of the mindset of the pro-gun people. Very enlightening. True colors.

we tend to be honest

you gun haters should try it sometime rather than pretending you are trying to stop criminals

Pretty funny. So, because you sit around and dream about blowing people away and turning them into Swiss cheese, you think others do too, particularly liberals and anti-gun people? People who have ugly minds, like you, often think everyone is the same; sorry, but it isn't true.

More problematic I think is a clue in the last post of his I quoted --- he thinks there are two irreconcilable classes of people, the good guys in the white hats and the bad guys in the black hats, i.e. the "we" and the "they". I think these dichotomized infants actually believe these are two different species condemned so in perpetuity, and never the twain shall meet. That is after all why we're the Liberals and they're not.

I really think that's the root of it, the hurdle that has to be overcome.
Just watch, I'll bet he comes back and confirms it.

Tell us how to overcome that hurdle, Sir Possum.

 

[Pogo]

I tried to explain to the unwashed here, and it's undoubtedly aiming too low, that the French are not "prevented" from arming themselves by a law on paper, that the reason the average French citizen is not armed is the flip side of the reason so many of ours are ---- not because of what the law says but because of the culture. The French are simply not about blowing things up as a culture. They're about wine and women and song and all that but somehow missed the blessings of gun fetishism and the glorious satisfaction of dead schoolkids and bystanders it bestows.

More's the pity of course, but you don't change that with laws or lack of laws. You change that with cultural attitudes. So their task is to go over to France to make the case and explain why they need to forget the Beaujolais and the baisers and start investing in personal Smith & Wessons. Y'know, drop all that ghey stuff that has to do with enjoying life and get into the wonders of enjoying death and destruction.

Et bonne chance avec tout ça.

Posts here have really demonstrated Americans' ignorance about France. Before this horrendous attack, I had no idea how little the haters really know about the freedoms France enjoys.

Hmm-- having lived both here and there I'd observe this in kind of and inside-out way-- how little the haters know about the freedoms they enjoy that we don't.

Not because we can't have them, sure we can -- but because we voluntarily choose to deprive ourselves thereof.

 

[Pogo]

"Gun control" is neither our problem nor our solution.

Gun fetishism -- that's our problem.

There's no gun fetishism, but there is a gun culture.

Well you're half right. They're the same thing.
Or to be technically correct, the latter is the inevitable product of the former. But neither exists without the other.

No! The former exists only in your imagination. The latter exists in out inner cities. Your Liberal friends in Hollywood and your beloved rappers on radio glorify guns. I just carry one to protect myself from the product of Liberal governance.

Is Mal-Wart having a sale on Strawmen again Urn?

How many ways do I have to express on this board to people who never asked that I don't do movies? I have no "liberal friends in Hollywood". And I cant stand (c)rap I-refuse-to-call-it-music.

When you're ready to stop talking past me to unknown stick figures in the cornfields maybe I'll saunter back. You're wasting my time.

 

[Ernie S.]

why not-more guns less crime

Assumes facts not in evidence.

You want facts? You can't handle the facts! (In my best Jack Nicholson)

FACTS

 

[Ernie S.]

"Gun control" is neither our problem nor our solution.

Gun fetishism -- that's our problem.

There's no gun fetishism, but there is a gun culture.

Well you're half right. They're the same thing.
Or to be technically correct, the latter is the inevitable product of the former. But neither exists without the other.

No! The former exists only in your imagination. The latter exists in out inner cities. Your Liberal friends in Hollywood and your beloved rappers on radio glorify guns. I just carry one to protect myself from the product of Liberal governance.

Is Mal-Wart having a sale on Strawmen again Urn?

How many ways do I have to express on this board to people who never asked that I don't do movies? I have no "liberal friends in Hollywood". And I cant stand (c)rap I-refuse-to-call-it-music.

When you're ready to stop talking past me to unknown stick figures in the cornfields maybe I'll saunter back. You're wasting my time.

So you can't give a straight answer about gun culture. I have no idea if you watch movies. If you told me at some point, I've intentionally forgotten because I have no need to clutter my mind with what you say here.
You know damned well, that I was talking about the Left in general when I said you, but you, as always puffed out your chest and called my argument fallacious as a way of avoiding answering my points.

I've grown tired of your arrogant bullshit. I'm done with you.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Thank you for admitting that you are clueless when it comes to causation.

And yet you maintain that fewer guns will cause less crime.
Which one of us is clueless here?

Onus is on you to prove that I have ever made such a claim so until you do you will remain the clueless one.

OK so you agree that gun control will not reduce crime.
Then what the fuck is your problem?

Onus is on you to prove that I ever made that claim, clueless one.

OK I agree you never said that. So must not believe it's true.
Again, then why are you bitching in this thread?

Kindly refrain from projecting your own shortcomings onto others.

All I am doing is holding you accountable for your fallacies. You cannot establish causation so your claim is worthless.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Countries with few guns do have fewer gun crimes. I don't think however that has ever lowered crime rates.

Untrue.

Looks to me like countries with fewer guns have less gun homicides. May be a few oddities, but looks like that is the case for the majority.
Gun homicides and gun ownership by country - The Washington Post

why do gun banning retards confuse legal guns with illegal ones
Mexico has very few legal guns. their murder rate is why higher than ours

Most of Europe looks to have fewer guns and fewer gun homicides.

white europeans have similar or higher rates of gun violence compared to white americans

figure that

FBI doesn't have full statistics reported from all law enforcement agencies nationawide therefore that claim is specious.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Anyone who wants to buy a modern assault rifle

Why would anyone need a "modern assault rifle" for either self defense or hunting?

 

[Derideo_Te]

You get that too huh?

Yup, standard kneejerk response from the gun fetishists.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Looks to me like countries with fewer guns have less gun homicides. May be a few oddities, but looks like that is the case for the majority.
Gun homicides and gun ownership by country - The Washington Post

why do gun banning retards confuse legal guns with illegal ones
Mexico has very few legal guns. their murder rate is why higher than ours

Most of Europe looks to have fewer guns and fewer gun homicides.

white europeans have similar or higher rates of gun violence compared to white americans

figure that

please provide a reliable source for this claim

GIYLF

Epic failure on the part of the gun fetishist.

 

[Derideo_Te]

why not-more guns less crime

Assumes facts not in evidence.

You want facts? You can't handle the facts! (In my best Jack Nicholson)

FACTS

Seriously, Ernie?

This is the first thing on your "facts" source;

Myth: Concealed carry doesn’t prevent crimes
Fact: News reports tell many stories of armed civilians preventing mass murder in public.​

Those "news reports" are called ANECDOTES not facts. Ditto for the quotations from individuals.

Furthermore that it a feelgood website for justifying CCW and does absolutely zero to address the specious claim "more guns means less crime".

Next time try actually addressing the question instead of riding your pet hobby horse.

 

[Esmeralda]

Looks to me like countries with fewer guns have less gun homicides. May be a few oddities, but looks like that is the case for the majority.
Gun homicides and gun ownership by country - The Washington Post

why do gun banning retards confuse legal guns with illegal ones
Mexico has very few legal guns. their murder rate is why higher than ours

Most of Europe looks to have fewer guns and fewer gun homicides.

white europeans have similar or higher rates of gun violence compared to white americans

figure that

please provide a reliable source for this claim

GIYLF

What does that mean?