The Fallacy of Race

[IanC]

"IN OUR TIME the problem of race has assumed an alarmingly
exaggerated importance. Alarming, because racial dogmas
have been made the basis for an inhumanly brutal poli-
tical philosophy which has already resulted in the death or
social disiranchisement of millions of innocent individuals;
exaggerated, because when the nature of contemporary "race"
theory is scientifically analyzed and understood it ceases to
be of any significance for social or any other kind of action.
It has been well said that there is no domain where the
sciences, philosophy, and politics blend to so great an extent
and in their contact have so much importance to the man
of the present day and of the future as in modern "race"
theory. Few problems in our time more pressingly require
solution than this. It is highly desirable, therefore, that the
facts about "race," as science has come to know them, should
be widely disseminated and clearly understood. To this end
the present volume has been written. "

Montagu was an academic whose opinions were formed in the pre and early civil rights era. many of the issues he wrote about seem archaic and odd to the modern ear. the problems of race have been transformed by political correctness (much but not all in a positive way) so that now many of the disparities are driven not by the attitude of whites but the attitudes and propensities of blacks themselves.

 

[IanC]

scientifically there are measurably different clusters of people genetically. there are different groups that have similarities of physical features and biological/behavioural functioning.

"Scientifically," there is greater genetic variation within so-called 'racial' groups than between them.

Lewontin's Fallacy will never die, eh?

are you trying to say that genetic testing cannot identify continental origin clusters that are commonly known as 'races'? it can.

are you trying to say that forensic pathology cannot identify 'race' by physical characteristics? it can.

are you trying to say that there are no measurable physiological or behavioural trait differences between the groups commonly known as 'races'? there are.

 

[Snookie]

scientifically there are measurably different clusters of people genetically. there are different groups that have similarities of physical features and biological/behavioural functioning.

"Scientifically," there is greater genetic variation within so-called 'racial' groups than between them.

Lewontin's Fallacy will never die, eh?

are you trying to say that genetic testing cannot identify continental origin clusters that are commonly known as 'races'? it can.

are you trying to say that forensic pathology cannot identify 'race' by physical characteristics? it can.

are you trying to say that there are no measurable physiological or behavioural trait differences between the groups commonly known as 'races'? there are.

Semantic red herring.

 

[IanC]

"Scientifically," there is greater genetic variation within so-called 'racial' groups than between them.

Lewontin's Fallacy will never die, eh?

are you trying to say that genetic testing cannot identify continental origin clusters that are commonly known as 'races'? it can.

are you trying to say that forensic pathology cannot identify 'race' by physical characteristics? it can.

are you trying to say that there are no measurable physiological or behavioural trait differences between the groups commonly known as 'races'? there are.

Semantic red herring.

Red herring? Why do you say that?

That is the scientific side of race. Perhaps you are more interested in the political side, but that does not trump science anymore than vice-versa. That is why we need more terms in the lexicon to avoid talking past each other.

 

[Snookie]

Lewontin's Fallacy will never die, eh?

are you trying to say that genetic testing cannot identify continental origin clusters that are commonly known as 'races'? it can.

are you trying to say that forensic pathology cannot identify 'race' by physical characteristics? it can.

are you trying to say that there are no measurable physiological or behavioural trait differences between the groups commonly known as 'races'? there are.

Semantic red herring.

Red herring? Why do you say that?

That is the scientific side of race. Perhaps you are more interested in the political side, but that does not trump science anymore than vice-versa. That is why we need more terms in the lexicon to avoid talking past each other.

You call his writings archaic. No way. He was ahead of his time when he wrote this book.

Hitler used the same arguments as racists use today, imo.

I don't know how you can claim he was political. He was an anthropologist and that was the primary source of views and opinions.

 

[jwoodie]

Sophistry or?

 

[Snookie]

Sophistry or?

Internet forums? About 50% sophistry, imo.

 

[Friends]

I've lived in a lack neighborhood for ten years without a black/white incident.

Did you even bother to read the book I quoted in the op? I doubt it. You probably don't read many books that are written by intelligent people.

You've been lucky. I used to think that way too until several black criminals nearly murdered me. I glanced through that book. If you read it and understood it, tell me what it says in your own words.

If you are too lazy to read it, I am not going to do it for you.

Whenever someone tells me to read something I have won the argument. If you read it with understanding you can present the argument in your own words.

 

[Snookie]

You've been lucky. I used to think that way too until several black criminals nearly murdered me. I glanced through that book. If you read it and understood it, tell me what it says in your own words.

If you are too lazy to read it, I am not going to do it for you.

Whenever someone tells me to read something I have won the argument. If you read it with understanding you can present the argument in your own words.

So, that means that you won all the arguments with your teachers. If you say so.

 

[Unkotare]

scientifically there are measurably different clusters of people genetically. there are different groups that have similarities of physical features and biological/behavioural functioning.

"Scientifically," there is greater genetic variation within so-called 'racial' groups than between them.

Lewontin's Fallacy will never die, eh?

are you trying to say that genetic testing cannot identify continental origin clusters that are commonly known as 'races'? it can.

are you trying to say that forensic pathology cannot identify 'race' by physical characteristics? it can.

are you trying to say that there are no measurable physiological or behavioural trait differences between the groups commonly known as 'races'? there are.

This topic has been discussed a million times and if you care to you can find mountains of evidence that has been posted before by scientific experts who know a hell of a lot more about it than you ever will that there is no genetic basic for the fabricated notion of 'race.'

 

[Wake]

It's true that "race" doesn't exist, because it's a concept engineered by homo sapiens. Much like justice, good, evil, normality, fairness, humanity, and equality.

 

[MaryL]

Race is never an Issue, ever...No, not ever.., except when the NBA or NFL is involved. It's a profit driven issue, African Americans dominate most sports, Why, who cares. Or do we? What other race for whatever reason, African Americans HAVE dominated, and most franchises, so don't kid yourself. Are you kidding? We question when whites dominate coaching, so race maters plenty. Bottom line is profits, who cares what RACE is dominate? Race matters alright. Profits mater much more. It’s sad when African Americans don’t use these same whiles to just …I don’t know, just try to STOP blaming racism. Racism my ass, grow up kids. Dominate science or agriculture. Tossing a ball around won't earn my respect, kids.

 

[Unkotare]

Race is never an Issue, ever...No, not ever.., except when the NBA or NFL is involved. It's a profit driven issue, African Americans dominate most sports than any other
Other race for whatever reason, whatever franchise, don't kid yourself. .

"Most sports"? Really?

 

[katsteve2012]

Race is never an Issue, ever...No, not ever.., except when the NBA or NFL is involved. It's a profit driven issue, African Americans dominate most sports than any other
Other race for whatever reason, whatever franchise, don't kid yourself. .

"Most sports"? Really?

No need for confusion. It's not true.

 

[Snookie]

Race is never an Issue, ever...No, not ever.., except when the NBA or NFL is involved. It's a profit driven issue, African Americans dominate most sports, Why, who cares. Or do we? What other race for whatever reason, African Americans HAVE dominated, and most franchises, so don't kid yourself. Are you kidding? We question when whites dominate coaching, so race maters plenty. Bottom line is profits, who cares what RACE is dominate? Race matters alright. Profits mater much more. It’s sad when African Americans don’t use these same whiles to just …I don’t know, just try to STOP blaming racism. Racism my ass, grow up kids. Dominate science or agriculture. Tossing a ball around won't earn my respect, kids.

I must remind you that our president is black. Or don't you accept that?

 

[Friends]

If race doesn't exist, then affirmative action must end.

strawman. Red herring. You are talking about semantics instead of the heart of the matter.

No, he is going to the heart of the matter. If race does not exist, then it must be the case that members of the non race of blacks perform as well as the non race of whites, and do not need therapeutic preferences.

Race does exist. It is obvious to everyone that the Negro race is less intelligent on the average than the white race.

 

[Friends]

Race is never an Issue, ever...No, not ever.., except when the NBA or NFL is involved. It's a profit driven issue, African Americans dominate most sports, Why, who cares. Or do we? What other race for whatever reason, African Americans HAVE dominated, and most franchises, so don't kid yourself. Are you kidding? We question when whites dominate coaching, so race maters plenty. Bottom line is profits, who cares what RACE is dominate? Race matters alright. Profits mater much more. It’s sad when African Americans don’t use these same whiles to just …I don’t know, just try to STOP blaming racism. Racism my ass, grow up kids. Dominate science or agriculture. Tossing a ball around won't earn my respect, kids.

I must remind you that our president is black. Or don't you accept that?

I voted for Obama three times. I would vote for him again instead of any Republican. Nevertheless, I am disappointed in him. I admire high IQ's and fancy college degrees. The fact that Obama graduated from Columbia and Harvard Law School initially caused me to respect him.

Then it became clear to me that he got into those schools because of affirmative action. He has never published his grades. He has never published his test scores. Although he was the editor of the Law Review at Harvard, he never wrote for it.

Obama has been incompetent as a president. He loses to Congressional Republicans on issues where he has popular opinion on his side.

All of Obama's adult life he has benefited from black skin privilege.

 

[Snookie]

Race is never an Issue, ever...No, not ever.., except when the NBA or NFL is involved. It's a profit driven issue, African Americans dominate most sports, Why, who cares. Or do we? What other race for whatever reason, African Americans HAVE dominated, and most franchises, so don't kid yourself. Are you kidding? We question when whites dominate coaching, so race maters plenty. Bottom line is profits, who cares what RACE is dominate? Race matters alright. Profits mater much more. It’s sad when African Americans don’t use these same whiles to just …I don’t know, just try to STOP blaming racism. Racism my ass, grow up kids. Dominate science or agriculture. Tossing a ball around won't earn my respect, kids.

I must remind you that our president is black. Or don't you accept that?

I voted for Obama three times. I would vote for him again instead of any Republican. Nevertheless, I am disappointed in him. I admire high IQ's and fancy college degrees. The fact that Obama graduated from Columbia and Harvard Law School initially caused me to respect him.

Then it became clear to me that he got into those schools because of affirmative action. He has never published his grades. He has never published his test scores. Although he was the editor of the Law Review at Harvard, he never wrote for it.

Obama has been incompetent as a president. He loses to Congressional Republicans on issues where he has popular opinion on his side.

All of Obama's adult life he has benefited from black skin privilege.

I agree with you. He sold out to the bean counters.

 

[BobPlumb]

If race doesn't exist, then affirmative action must end.

strawman. Red herring. You are talking about semantics instead of the heart of the matter.

Isn't the argument that race does't exist an argument about semantics. "Race" is a word. What is the definition of the word race?

 

[Snookie]

If race doesn't exist, then affirmative action must end.

strawman. Red herring. You are talking about semantics instead of the heart of the matter.

Isn't the argument that race does't exist an argument about semantics. "Race" is a word. What is the definition of the word race?

It's an oxymoron.

You almost had me there.