The federal reserve is going to pull another ONE TRILLION DOLLARS OUT OF THEIR ASS!

[LiberalNut]

I'm not the moron saying inflation is good for the citizens, when it isn't.

Of course, i didn't say that. In reality it's good for some citizens and bad for others. Specifically it's good for debtors at fixed rates and it's bad for lender at fixed rates. This is just the fucking truth and you have not countered a word of it.

 

[Big Fitz]

I'm not the moron saying inflation is good for the citizens, when it isn't.

Of course, i didn't say that. In reality it's good for some citizens and bad for others. Specifically it's good for debtors at fixed rates and it's bad for lender at fixed rates. This is just the fucking truth and you have not countered a word of it.

Aaaannd the goalposts move.

I am not saying for a second that debtors get a benefit and lenders get hurt. I am saying that it hurts more people than it helps because their income decreases, their investments decrease, their costs increase and the economy slows because less can be purchased. Fixed incomes are fucked. Floating rates skyrocket...

Inflation is NOT a good thing unless you are positioned to take advantage of it, and most people aren't.

 

[LiberalNut]

I am saying that it hurts more people than it helps

You're simply wrong. Debtors outnumber lenders. they just do.

their income decreases

No, they increase. That's what happened to your father, wasn't it? Wages increase, lagging a bit behind prices. that's what inflation is.

their investments decrease

Only if those investments are in fixed rate debt. Again, the investor class is the MINORITY,especially in the 70s.

Fixed incomes are fucked.

Not if they have COLAs.

Floating rates skyrocket

If you sign a variable rate mortgage, you're an idiot and you deserve to get burned.

Inflation is NOT a good thing unless you are positioned to take advantage of it, and most people aren't.

That's just fucking wrong. Most people are in debt at a fixed rate. That's just a fact. It was even more a fact in the 70s.

And, of course, the whole exercise in trying to teach you basic economics is beside the point. The point remains that fed actions today are not inflationary, or barely so.

 

[Big Fitz]

I am saying that it hurts more people than it helps

You're simply wrong. Debtors outnumber lenders. they just do.

their income decreases

No, they increase. That's what happened to your father, wasn't it? Wages increase, lagging a bit behind prices. that's what inflation is.

their investments decrease

Only if those investments are in fixed rate debt. Again, the investor class is the MINORITY,especially in the 70s.

Fixed incomes are fucked.

Not if they have COLAs.

Floating rates skyrocket

If you sign a variable rate mortgage, you're an idiot and you deserve to get burned.

Inflation is NOT a good thing unless you are positioned to take advantage of it, and most people aren't.

That's just fucking wrong. Most people are in debt at a fixed rate. That's just a fact. It was even more a fact in the 70s.

And, of course, the whole exercise in trying to teach you basic economics is beside the point. The point remains that fed actions today are not inflationary, or barely so.

That's what happened to your father, wasn't it?

Actually no. HE got multiple jobs and my mother started working. That is not an improvement in income. It is an increase in earnings by devoting more effort by BOTH wage earners in the household. Something that never changed, and fewer households had the ability to survive on one income till it is the vast minority, not the rule. It took them till the mid nineties to get where they should have been in the mid 80s.

And please, I'm not interested in Keynsian Failonomics. Those were debunked in the 30's. Too much ivory tower ruins the connection to reality. Like commienism, it looks great on paper, but doesn't work for real.

But your compassion for the poor, fixed incomes, and victims of Freddie and Fannie's sub prime mortgages is noted.

Btw, in the golden era of Jimmeh, why was there a misery index? Why is it he lost in the biggest landslide in US history? Why the spike in gold prices to (at the time) record highs? Why was it unemployment was over 10% (not including the discouraged workers and real total indexes)?

Tick Tock
Tick Tock

 

[LiberalNut]

The stagflation of the 70s was caused by OPEC. Indeed, in the classical model of Adam Smith, high inflation and high unemployment cannot happen at the same time. Far from being a failed economic theory, Keynesianism is the dominant econometric model on planet earth.

Your writing has been reduced to straight up right wing ranting. I'm not surprised. When the facts bump up against the right wing ideology, the wingnut simply must jettison the facts.

So it goes.

 

[Big Fitz]

Obfuscate, ignore, move goalposts. Obfuscate, ignore, move goalposts.

I see a shitload of opinion, and very few facty like substances from you, other than the truth that Lenders get hurt, debtors get some help.

My statement that the two are not equally in balance has not been disproven.

 

[LiberalNut]

Indeed the two are not equally in balance. There are more debtors than lenders. Wealth is redistributed from the rich to the middle class.

But, yet again, you getting schooled on basic economics is beside the point. The point of the thread is QE2 and QE2 is not inflationary in this economic environment.

 

[Spoonman]

That's bullshit and you know it.

Bull fucking shit back at you? When's the last time YOU were hourly working hard one or two jobs just to make ends meet? Never? I have many friends as well as personal experience with this being FACT.

You make tons of assumptions. Those who did not have the ability to get a house in 1970 but could have gotten one in 1974 were in a much worse position with mortgages approaching 20% and a required 20% down. I reiterate, you got lucky. Most of the nation during Carter and even the first 2 years of Reagan, till his tax cuts kicked in were in bad condition too.

Dante is a blowhard

 

[Reasoning]

Ron Paul vows renewed Fed audit push next year | Reuters

 

[LiberalNut]

Ooooo boy, big bad Ron is gonna have an audit! Ya think bernanke is scared?

LOL!

 

[Big Fitz]

Indeed the two are not equally in balance. There are more debtors than lenders. Wealth is redistributed from the rich to the middle class.

But, yet again, you getting schooled on basic economics is beside the point. The point of the thread is QE2 and QE2 is not inflationary in this economic environment.

you can't pull a trillion dollars out of your ass and say it has value! Economics doesn't work that way! The question is only one of where and when it will hit and at what speed.

If I only have 100 of an item, it has x value.

If I manufacture 1000 more, I have decreased the value by a factor of 10.

THAT is what the fed is doing to the dollar. Simple fucking economics. And of course, reinflating bubbles is NEVER a smart idea. But we don't have smart people running the economy right now, we have political hacks trying to save their friend's from taking a huge shot in the ass they deserve.

 

[Big Fitz]

Ron Paul vows renewed Fed audit push next year | Reuters

About goddamn time!

 

[LiberalNut]

you can't pull a trillion dollars out of your ass and say it has value!

Boy, I wish I knew anyone who could pull money out of their ass. You're spewing bullshit.

If I only have 100 of an item, it has x value.

If I manufacture 1000 more, I have decreased the value by a factor of 10.

Are you on fucking crack? Then why aren't cars selling for pennies?

 

[Big Fitz]

you can't pull a trillion dollars out of your ass and say it has value!

Boy, I wish I knew anyone who could pull money out of their ass. You're spewing bullshit.

If I only have 100 of an item, it has x value.

If I manufacture 1000 more, I have decreased the value by a factor of 10.

Are you on fucking crack? Then why aren't cars selling for pennies?

Sorry, I can't hear you over my moron detector alarm going off.

 

[LiberalNut]

Uh, if I make 100 cars they have X value. Duh

::drool::, If I make 1000 more cars, their value is cut by a factor of 10.

You said it moron, not me. Then you have the temerity to call me the moron? LOL!

 

[Big Fitz]

SOrry, but you're trying to compare oranges to moon rocks.

Cars being manufactured are not comparable to dollars being printed. I should have been clearer and given you less wiggle room to deliberately fuck up the analogy.

 

[The T]

When it comes right down to it? The FED needs to be abolished.

 

[editec]

Inflation is when the amount of specie grows while the total goods and services purchasable does not. Prices rise as a result.

Deflation is the opposite condition.

Obviously if you are in a fixed-rate debt state, inflation works to your advantage.

However, if at the same time your income is NOT increasing at the same rate as the rate of inflationm you are losing ground in terms of purchaing power.

We all know this, right?

FYI the reason we are in a DEFLATIONARY state now is because perceived wealth (example, the market value of your house is percieved wealth, or stock portfolion is perceieved wealth) went down dramatically as the RE bubble burst.

The acualy amount of money in ciculation didn't fall dramatically, folks.

How rich we thought we were fell dramatically.

Did my house change in the last few years?

No it has the same VALUE IN USE.

But my perception of its market value has changed and if I tried to sell it my perception of its diminished market value would become harsh reality.


My point here is there is more to inflation and DEflation that merely the amount of money in circulation, or for that matter even the amount of good and services.

The state of the specie (inflation or deflation) is ALSO a matter of MASS PERCEPTION BASED ON FUTURE EXPECTATIONS.

 

[LiberalNut]

dollars being printed.

Do you actually think the national mints are busy "printing" dollars? How much time do you think it would take to "print" that much money? If you don't think money is actually being "printed", why are you regurgitating that lie?

No money is being created. None. Non-liquid money (M2) bonds are being exchanged for liquid money (cash reserves or M1). That's it. LIQUIDITY is what is being increased, not the supply of money.

But I might as well be talking in Swahili cause you don't have a clue. The right wing noise machine has told you to spread the fear about the inflation boogieman and you are just being the drone that you are. They've given you catch phrases to use like "print money' and "Weimar Republic" and you think a pre-packaged schpiel can substitute for actual knowledge of how the world actually works.

You're wrong. You've been proven wrong numerous times and you even posted something that was laughably false, truly laughably. But none of that matters. When reality bumps up against your marching orders, reality will be ignored. If I hadn't seen it a million times already, I'd be shocked by this behavior. Now all I can do is pity you for how you've let your brain be shut off by hate speech and lies.

 

[Scaybeez]

That's funny considering one of the Fed's stated goals in doing the bond buying is to increase the inflation rate towards they're long term target of two percent. The concern is not totally baseless. Or maybe the Fed doesn't know anything about how the economy works, either?

Right, they'd love to see the rate of inflation increase to 2%, but so what? They've failed miserably at accomplishing that goal, which just goes to show what a non-issue inflation is right now.