The Government and Universal Healthcare

[Chris]

The insult is the last refuge of the person with no ideas, and here we have three people with no ideas.

And in Dive's case, no punctuation.

 

[Meister]

The insult is the last refuge of the person with no ideas, and here we have three people with no ideas.

And in Dive's case, no punctuation.

Chris...you give them plenty of ammunition.

 

[elvis]

we insult chrissy lewinsky because he is a moron, partisan hack, and douchebag...

oh and because he disrespects veterans. he also spews the same shit over and over and over again.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The insult is the last refuge of the person with no ideas, and here we have three people with no ideas.

And in Dive's case, no punctuation.

Chris...you give them plenty of ammunition.

Cherrypicking posts is the last refuge of the person with no ideas, and accusing any of the three of us of having no ideas just shows that Chris doesn't read the entire thread for fear he'll have to refute something.

 

[Chris]

Our healthcare system is set up to make a profit and it is very good at that.

The problem is the cheapest forms of healing are often the best.

 

[DiveCon]

The insult is the last refuge of the person with no ideas, and here we have three people with no ideas.

And in Dive's case, no punctuation.

Chris...you give them plenty of ammunition.

Cherrypicking posts is the last refuge of the person with no ideas, and accusing any of the three of us of having no ideas just shows that Chris doesn't read the entire thread for fear he'll have to refute something.

Chris is well known to ignore the point and shoot for the stuff that no one gives a shit about

 

[DiamondDave]

Chris...you give them plenty of ammunition.

Cherrypicking posts is the last refuge of the person with no ideas, and accusing any of the three of us of having no ideas just shows that Chris doesn't read the entire thread for fear he'll have to refute something.

Chris is an ignorant troll

There Dive... fixed it to explain it thoroughly... short, sweet, and to the point

 

[Old Rocks]

Which government employees did you have in mind when you wrote this? Rank and file civil servants, like postal workers, or members of Congress? Because I can pretty much guarantee you that everyday Joe Schmoes who just happen to work for the USPS or the border patrol or your local federal prison will be in the same boat, heading up You-Know-Which Creek with the rest of us, and Congressman or Senator Blowhard will be exempt from it, as they are from so much else that they inflict on the public.

i think elected officials should have to use the same system they expect everyone else to

This would be the only way that would insure the healthcare service would work properly. If universal healthcare ever comes to pass, I would need to start praying for the elderly people. Government will pick and choose what treatment would be affordable, or not. I assure you it won't be in the best interest of the patient.

OK, silly ass. All the other industrial nations already have universal health care. So, by your statement, their old people die sooner, right? Not so. Their average life spans exceed ours, and their old people are healthier. Not only that, their infant mortality is way lower than ours. In fact, Cuba's infant mortality is lower than ours. Get some facts, abhorent as such things are to you.

 

[Old Rocks]

UK opposition leader David Cameron's son dies at 6

The probable next Prime Minister of Britain, David Cameron, a Conservative, lost a disabled son. It was not unexpected, but like the loss of any child, a heartbreak. The Cameron family expressed gratitude to all the people of Britain's NHS for their support and care. It would seem that even the Conservatives of other nations appreciate what a well ran universal health care system can do.

 

[Yukon]

Guess what Conservatives. You WILL have universal heath care whether you like it or not:

(PRESIDENT) OBAMA: "...it should be a right for every American. In a country as wealthy as ours, for us to have people who are going bankrupt because they can’t pay their medical bills--for my mother to die of cancer at the age of 53 and have to spend the last months of her life in the hospital room arguing with insurance companies because they’re saying that this may be a pre-existing condition and they don’t have to pay her treatment, there’s something fundamentally wrong about that.

Source: 2008 second presidential debate against John McCain Oct 7, 2008

 

[Old Rocks]

Go to any hospital and tell them you need a Heart By-Pass operation but you dont have any insurance. See if they do it for you.

I heard your dog can get treated quicker in Canada than humans can, is that true?

No, that is a lie. And you well know it.
Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org

 

[DiamondDave]

OR

And many of the other nations do not put the scrutiny on the accuracy of their statistics like we do... and do not forget factors like the effect of individual choices and habits on lifespan... lifespan is not all about healthcare and is not the end-all-be-all in determining the quality of healthcare

The FACT is that we have the most advanced and highly technological health care in the world... ones from other countries FLOCK here for care they could receive NOWHERE ELSE

 

[Yukon]

Diamond,

You forgot to add banks, car companies, etc, etc to your list:

"Socialism will only work with a society of prisoners, slaves, and robots who can be controlled by the ruling elite (which will always exist in that type of system)."

 

[editec]

EVeryone seems to know what WILL NOT WORK.

Does anyone here who adores capitalism and hates anything remotely smacks of communalism have a solutions that WILL work?

Just wondering.

 

[DiamondDave]

EVeryone seems to know what WILL NOT WORK.

Does anyone here who adores capitalism and hates anything remotely smacks of communalism have a solutions that WILL work?

Just wondering.

I think laws and regulations about the availability of health care products from private companies has to be the key... the use of groups of people in a community to receive the benefit of a 'group rate' that is usually only received by companies/employers... for example, people belonging to a community group, HOA, hell even the PTA for a school district, to be able to ban together as a group and negotiate a group rate with an insurance carrier... the more group choices you have, the more power in competition and negotiation

 

[toomuchtime_]

OR

And many of the other nations do not put the scrutiny on the accuracy of their statistics like we do... and do not forget factors like the effect of individual choices and habits on lifespan... lifespan is not all about healthcare and is not the end-all-be-all in determining the quality of healthcare

The FACT is that we have the most advanced and highly technological health care in the world... ones from other countries FLOCK here for care they could receive NOWHERE ELSE

For people who have health insurance in the US, the statistics are likely to be as good or better than the statistics for any other country, but for people who don't, they are likely to be worse. Again, if you have health insurance, the quality of care available to you is at least as good as you can get anywhere else in the world, but our system does have some gaps that deserve serious debate, such as coverage for pre existing conditions if you have to change insurers and the high cost of buying private insurance on your own.

I would like to see statistics about how much it would increase premiums to have coverage for all pre existing conditions when people change companies and how much it would cost taxpayers to partially subsidize the cost of health insurance of those who honestly can't afford it on their own. The fact that our system has some gaps doesn't necessarily mean we have to scrap it and switch to another system, but it may. Let's see the numbers for how much it would cost to patch our system and how much it will cost to switch to another system that will provide the same choices and coverage to those who already have health insurance as well as cover those who do not.

 

[Andrew2382]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-and-universal-healthcare-14.html#post1066489

 

[editec]

Hey Andrew,

We already have universal healthcare, just a really, really bad version of it. Everyone can be treated in the emergency room. We don't let people bleed to death on the street here. Not yet, anyway. So the rich get great healthcare, and the poor get no healthcare until they are at death's door. Does that sound like a good way to run a society? No, it doesn't. The ironic thing is that every other Western democracy has a single payer system, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because they don't have to pay liability lawyers, insurance companies, and Big Pharma. There are inherent cost savings with a single payer system. The Germans have had one since 1886!

With a single payer system you would still pick your doctor, and your doctor would still own his practice. There would just be one insurance company, and that would be the government.

Yeah they might pay less per capita but the level of care is worse...

No it isn't. The morbity and motality statistics indicate quite the otherwise, actually.

Also, comparing emergency hospital care to Universal healthcare for everyone is abusrd.

Yes it is.

And also you are right in one sense we do have versions of universal health

Medicare/Medicaid

Since not everyone is eligible, that isn't quite true.

Those programs are doing great right!

Thier administrative costs are 2%. the other 98% goes directly to the private health care providers.

Private insurance schemes take 25% of the money for admin, advertising and profits. The other 75% is paid out to the HC providers.

FYI

 

[Andrew2382]

No it isn't. The morbity and motality statistics indicate quite the otherwise, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ntries_by_life_expectancy

Canada is 14th and their expectancy is 80.34

Now lets take a closer look at these numbers.

First of all you have to take in general population, obviously the greater the population the more deaths you are going to have. It is a pure numbers thing.

United States- a little over 300 million
Canada- 30 million

Let's compare the two in another stat-
Obesity
http://www.nationmaster.c...ph/hea_obe-health-obesity
United States- 30.6% of the population
Canada- 14.3% of the population

It has nothing to do with privatized healthcare, it has to do that Americans unfortunately are gluttonous.

what about all these other wonderful countries that have social healthcare, where are they on your life expectancy list?

England? 37th with a expectancy of 78.7 ...pretty much a statstical tie with us.
Germany? 33th with a expectancy of 78.95
Venezuela? 95th!!! With a whopping 73.28 life expectancy
Spain? 19th place with 79.79 life expectancy

Now guess what, you can combine the population from all 5 of thouse countries and the United States by itself still has more.

It comes down to Americans that don't take care of themselves.
For example, obesity alone is calculated to decrease US life expectancy by 0.3 to 0.75 years and the US has the highest rates of obesity in the world. Notice that Japan has one of the lowest rates of obesity and is among the countries with the highest life expectancies.

Perhaps that fat fuck Michael Moore one day when he is choking down one of his double cheeseburgers from Mickey D's will realize that it is his 500 pounds that is going to kill him early, not the Healthcare system of this country.

Lets look at some of most populated countries that use universal health in the world and see how we compare:

China, 1.2 billion
Brazil- 120 million
Russia- 117 million
United States- 300 million

China Life Expectancy- 103rd place with a expectancy of 73 years.
Brazil- 114th place with an expectancy of 72.24
Russia- 157th! with a huge expectancy of 65.5...no need to go to war with them they will all just die in a few years from old age.
United States- 45th place with an expectancy of 78.06. Not to bad given the population and obesity factor we are faced with.

Let's not forget to mention that the difference between 45th place and 19th place is .96 years...less then 1 year of life

I'll take my chances here in the States

Since not everyone is eligible, that isn't quite true.

Fair statement, however my point stands that its a form of national healthcare, and its doing badly

MoneyNews - Medicare Going Broke Faster Than Thought

Federal health officials estimate that the struggling economy will speed up by one to three years the exhaustion of the Medicare trust fund covering hospital and nursing home care.


Trustees for the Social Security and Medicare programs warned last March that the trust fund for Medicare Part A would become insolvent in 2019. But the chief actuary for Medicare said Monday the economy will likely generate less revenue through payroll taxes than the trustees had projected.

 

[johnrocks]

No it isn't. The morbity and motality statistics indicate quite the otherwise, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ntries_by_life_expectancy

Canada is 14th and their expectancy is 80.34

Now lets take a closer look at these numbers.

First of all you have to take in general population, obviously the greater the population the more deaths you are going to have. It is a pure numbers thing.

United States- a little over 300 million
Canada- 30 million

Let's compare the two in another stat-
Obesity
http://www.nationmaster.c...ph/hea_obe-health-obesity
United States- 30.6% of the population
Canada- 14.3% of the population

It has nothing to do with privatized healthcare, it has to do that Americans unfortunately are gluttonous.

what about all these other wonderful countries that have social healthcare, where are they on your life expectancy list?

England? 37th with a expectancy of 78.7 ...pretty much a statstical tie with us.
Germany? 33th with a expectancy of 78.95
Venezuela? 95th!!! With a whopping 73.28 life expectancy
Spain? 19th place with 79.79 life expectancy

Now guess what, you can combine the population from all 5 of thouse countries and the United States by itself still has more.

It comes down to Americans that don't take care of themselves.
For example, obesity alone is calculated to decrease US life expectancy by 0.3 to 0.75 years and the US has the highest rates of obesity in the world. Notice that Japan has one of the lowest rates of obesity and is among the countries with the highest life expectancies.

Perhaps that fat fuck Michael Moore one day when he is choking down one of his double cheeseburgers from Mickey D's will realize that it is his 500 pounds that is going to kill him early, not the Healthcare system of this country.

Lets look at some of most populated countries that use universal health in the world and see how we compare:

China, 1.2 billion
Brazil- 120 million
Russia- 117 million
United States- 300 million

China Life Expectancy- 103rd place with a expectancy of 73 years.
Brazil- 114th place with an expectancy of 72.24
Russia- 157th! with a huge expectancy of 65.5...no need to go to war with them they will all just die in a few years from old age.
United States- 45th place with an expectancy of 78.06. Not to bad given the population and obesity factor we are faced with.

Let's not forget to mention that the difference between 45th place and 19th place is .96 years...less then 1 year of life

I'll take my chances here in the States

Since not everyone is eligible, that isn't quite true.

Fair statement, however my point stands that its a form of national healthcare, and its doing badly

MoneyNews - Medicare Going Broke Faster Than Thought

Federal health officials estimate that the struggling economy will speed up by one to three years the exhaustion of the Medicare trust fund covering hospital and nursing home care.


Trustees for the Social Security and Medicare programs warned last March that the trust fund for Medicare Part A would become insolvent in 2019. But the chief actuary for Medicare said Monday the economy will likely generate less revenue through payroll taxes than the trustees had projected.

Great post!