The Heart of the AGW Premise Fails Empirical Review.

[SSDD]

That's actually a clever counterexample of the SSDD misunderstanding of the wording of the second law;
Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

No...it is just one more example of someone who doesn't have even a slight grasp of the physics of energy movement making a stupid statement based on intuition rather than any actual knowledge.

Like him, you are obviously uneducated...if you had even the smallest grasp of the topic, you would first wonder what the temperature of the source providing the light is...then you would realize that the light coming from the refrigerator comes form a source that is in excess of 2000 degrees...and wouldn't think that seeing cold stuff in your refrigerator is an example of energy moving from cool to warm. How deep does your ignorance go wuwei?

The true second law is in action when your eyes feel the cold from standing close, but if you want to live up to SSDD's standards you have to make it spontaneous. So put some ice cream on your counter top and do something else for a while like let your fingers be snapped by a mousetrap so you forget about the ice cream. Then when you next happen to see the ice cream it will be spontaneous energy flowing to your eyes. The ice cream might have become soggy, but it was all for science.

And what do you suppose the temperature of the light source that is reflecting off the ice cream is? Set your ice cream on a counter in a completely dark room and see how much visible light flows spontaneously to your eyes you idiot.

Is there any doubt now that you are just one more internet poser who really doesn't know jack? Basic mistake after basic mistake after basic mistake...and if you don't grasp the basics, you can't even begin to understand the more advanced topics...you are a religious zealot who has learned a few verses from your bible and that is the extent of your knowledge.

 

[polarbear]

Oy

Nobody cares about the photons.

I love photons. They hit my retinas and I can see stuff. As far as this silly argument about photons moving from colder to warmer, how is it I can see the stuff in my refrigerator? My retinas are at 98.6F, the stuff in the fridge is about 35F, yet I can see it. All the lettuce and cheese and old spaghetti sauce and everything else are emitting photons that my eyes detect. How can that be?

how is it I can see the stuff in my refrigerator? My retinas are at 98.6F, the stuff in the fridge is about 35F, yet I can see it. All the lettuce and cheese and old spaghetti sauce and everything else are emitting photons that my eyes detect. How can that be?
How can that be? Hahaha and Wuwei commented "That's actually a clever counterexample".
Showing how stupid both of you are.
What do you think the light bulb which turns on when you open the fridge door is for?
Both of you qualify for the Darwin award

 

[Wuwei]

At this point, I have received a few responses, although if I received 50, they would all say essentially the same thing...that being, that you were quite wrong.

You didn't need to go to all that trouble because I already said in post #487,

The system you are defining is simply an LED with nothing else. External to that LED system is a battery. I agree that is not spontaneous. .....

..... You go through intense caustic verbosity on how your system is not spontaneous. I totally agree with you that your system is not spontaneous.

So I had previously agreed with the professors said. If that is your point, you wasted your time, not to mention the professor's time for conjuring up a non sequitur to your argument.

I already told you in post #187
What you are doing is conflating your alternate definition of a different system with my penlight system which includes an internal battery. That is where your logic totally breaks down. You also ignored the above definition that a system can have chemical changes and still be spontaneous.

Dr Belanger simply recited the 2nd law that everyone knows, although he badly muffed his wording.

Dr. Belanger pointed out your notion that photons are free to flow unimpeded was incorrect

He certainly did not in the quote you gave.

Why don't you directly ask Dr Belanger, if black body radiation is forbidden from flowing from a cold body to a hot body. Or if the SB equation says that all black body radiation between objects is completely stopped when objects are at the same temperature. That is the whole issue, and would be much easier than dancing around it.

 

[SSDD]

At this point, I have received a few responses, although if I received 50, they would all say essentially the same thing...that being, that you were quite wrong.

You didn't need to go to all that trouble because I already said in post #487,

The system you are defining is simply an LED with nothing else. External to that LED system is a battery. I agree that is not spontaneous. .....

..... You go through intense caustic verbosity on how your system is not spontaneous. I totally agree with you that your system is not spontaneous.

So I had previously agreed with the professors said. If that is your point, you wasted your time, not to mention the professor's time for conjuring up a non sequitur to your argument.

I already told you in post #187
What you are doing is conflating your alternate definition of a different system with my penlight system which includes an internal battery. That is where your logic totally breaks down. You also ignored the above definition that a system can have chemical changes and still be spontaneous.

Dr Belanger simply recited the 2nd law that everyone knows, although he badly muffed his wording.

Dr. Belanger pointed out your notion that photons are free to flow unimpeded was incorrect

He certainly did not in the quote you gave.

Why don't you directly ask Dr Belanger, if black body radiation is forbidden from flowing from a cold body to a hot body. Or if the SB equation says that all black body radiation between objects is completely stopped when objects are at the same temperature. That is the whole issue, and would be much easier than dancing around it.

Maybe you are just to f'ing stupid to figure out that no process with a battery connected to it is spontaneous....

We both know that you are stupid, and intellectually dishonest, but do tell me what this exchange means in your twisted mind.

Dr. Bloomfield,

Thank you so much for your response. If I may, I would like to ask one point of clarification and then I promise to leave you alone. If I am understanding you, the spontaneous process part of the process is the initial movement of electrons from the P part to the N part which forms a bit of plain old silicon between the two parts. If, however, you wish to keep that process going, and actually produce light from the device, you must provide an outside energy source, ie an electric current which is not a spontaneous process.

Thank you again for your response, it is greatly appreciated

XXXX

To which he replied:

Hi XXXX

Yup, that's basically correct.

Cheers,

Jolyon Bloomfield

 

[SSDD]

Oy

Nobody cares about the photons.

I love photons. They hit my retinas and I can see stuff. As far as this silly argument about photons moving from colder to warmer, how is it I can see the stuff in my refrigerator? My retinas are at 98.6F, the stuff in the fridge is about 35F, yet I can see it. All the lettuce and cheese and old spaghetti sauce and everything else are emitting photons that my eyes detect. How can that be?

how is it I can see the stuff in my refrigerator? My retinas are at 98.6F, the stuff in the fridge is about 35F, yet I can see it. All the lettuce and cheese and old spaghetti sauce and everything else are emitting photons that my eyes detect. How can that be?
How can that be? Hahaha and Wuwei commented "That's actually a clever counterexample".
Showing how stupid both of you are.
What do you think the light bulb which turns on when you open the fridge door is for?
Both of you qualify for the Darwin award

Did you catch the exchange where wuwei is trying to claim that the light emitting from an LED flashlight is a spontaneous process and the battery is not an external power source for the LED itself?

As to the refrigerator light....neither would ever have considered that the filament in the bulb inside the refrigerator is 2000+ degrees....absolutely no understanding of even the basics of physics.

The stupidity is astounding.

 

[Wuwei]

Funny...coming from someone who, at this point, 3 professors of physics at respected universities have said was wrong on a very basic topic in physics. You aren't able to think deeper because you lack the education required to do so. Let me know when you can at least differentiate between a spontaneous and non spontaneous process.

You are lying again. The professors confirmed my post #487.

So now you are claiming again, that all EM radiation is exempt form the second law?

Nope. Never did. Are you still claiming that accelerating charges can't radiate under certain circumstances?

 

[Wuwei]

That's actually a clever counterexample of the SSDD misunderstanding of the wording of the second law;
Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

No...it is just one more example of someone who doesn't have even a slight grasp of the physics of energy movement making a stupid statement based on intuition rather than any actual knowledge.

Like him, you are obviously uneducated...if you had even the smallest grasp of the topic, you would first wonder what the temperature of the source providing the light is...then you would realize that the light coming from the refrigerator comes form a source that is in excess of 2000 degrees...and wouldn't think that seeing cold stuff in your refrigerator is an example of energy moving from cool to warm. How deep does your ignorance go wuwei?

The true second law is in action when your eyes feel the cold from standing close, but if you want to live up to SSDD's standards you have to make it spontaneous. So put some ice cream on your counter top and do something else for a while like let your fingers be snapped by a mousetrap so you forget about the ice cream. Then when you next happen to see the ice cream it will be spontaneous energy flowing to your eyes. The ice cream might have become soggy, but it was all for science.

And what do you suppose the temperature of the light source that is reflecting off the ice cream is? Set your ice cream on a counter in a completely dark room and see how much visible light flows spontaneously to your eyes you idiot.

Is there any doubt now that you are just one more internet poser who really doesn't know jack? Basic mistake after basic mistake after basic mistake...and if you don't grasp the basics, you can't even begin to understand the more advanced topics...you are a religious zealot who has learned a few verses from your bible and that is the extent of your knowledge.

Geesh. I was joking on the spontaneity. I should have included a smiley.

 

[SSDD]

Funny...coming from someone who, at this point, 3 professors of physics at respected universities have said was wrong on a very basic topic in physics. You aren't able to think deeper because you lack the education required to do so. Let me know when you can at least differentiate between a spontaneous and non spontaneous process.

You are lying again. The professors confirmed my post #487.

Sorry, they did not. They confirmed that, as I said, there is a spontaneous process where the p type silicon and the n type silicon combine to form some plain old silicon in the junction...but if you want to get light out of it, you must add power from an external source...here is a clue you idiot, they agreed that the battery... is an external source.

Nope. Never did. Are you still claiming that accelerating charges can't radiate under certain circumstances?

Not me...the second law which Dr Belanger stated in no uncertain terms was never wrong. You are the idiot who thinks you can move energy spontaneously from a cool object to a warm object..and not just move it...move it freely.

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[Wuwei]

At this point, I have received a few responses, although if I received 50, they would all say essentially the same thing...that being, that you were quite wrong.

You didn't need to go to all that trouble because I already said in post #487,

The system you are defining is simply an LED with nothing else. External to that LED system is a battery. I agree that is not spontaneous. .....

..... You go through intense caustic verbosity on how your system is not spontaneous. I totally agree with you that your system is not spontaneous.

So I had previously agreed with the professors said. If that is your point, you wasted your time, not to mention the professor's time for conjuring up a non sequitur to your argument.

I already told you in post #187
What you are doing is conflating your alternate definition of a different system with my penlight system which includes an internal battery. That is where your logic totally breaks down. You also ignored the above definition that a system can have chemical changes and still be spontaneous.

Dr Belanger simply recited the 2nd law that everyone knows, although he badly muffed his wording.

Dr. Belanger pointed out your notion that photons are free to flow unimpeded was incorrect

He certainly did not in the quote you gave.

Why don't you directly ask Dr Belanger, if black body radiation is forbidden from flowing from a cold body to a hot body. Or if the SB equation says that all black body radiation between objects is completely stopped when objects are at the same temperature. That is the whole issue, and would be much easier than dancing around it.

Maybe you are just to f'ing stupid to figure out that no process with a battery connected to it is spontaneous....

We both know that you are stupid, and intellectually dishonest, but do tell me what this exchange means in your twisted mind.

Dr. Bloomfield,

Thank you so much for your response. If I may, I would like to ask one point of clarification and then I promise to leave you alone. If I am understanding you, the spontaneous process part of the process is the initial movement of electrons from the P part to the N part which forms a bit of plain old silicon between the two parts. If, however, you wish to keep that process going, and actually produce light from the device, you must provide an outside energy source, ie an electric current which is not a spontaneous process.

Thank you again for your response, it is greatly appreciated

XXXX

To which he replied:

Hi XXXX

Yup, that's basically correct.

Cheers,

Jolyon Bloomfield

You should have asked if free energy of an isolated chemical process such as a battery is a spontaneous.

My god, you ask obvious questions but don't understand their answers.

 

[SSDD]

That's actually a clever counterexample of the SSDD misunderstanding of the wording of the second law;
Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

No...it is just one more example of someone who doesn't have even a slight grasp of the physics of energy movement making a stupid statement based on intuition rather than any actual knowledge.

Like him, you are obviously uneducated...if you had even the smallest grasp of the topic, you would first wonder what the temperature of the source providing the light is...then you would realize that the light coming from the refrigerator comes form a source that is in excess of 2000 degrees...and wouldn't think that seeing cold stuff in your refrigerator is an example of energy moving from cool to warm. How deep does your ignorance go wuwei?

The true second law is in action when your eyes feel the cold from standing close, but if you want to live up to SSDD's standards you have to make it spontaneous. So put some ice cream on your counter top and do something else for a while like let your fingers be snapped by a mousetrap so you forget about the ice cream. Then when you next happen to see the ice cream it will be spontaneous energy flowing to your eyes. The ice cream might have become soggy, but it was all for science.

And what do you suppose the temperature of the light source that is reflecting off the ice cream is? Set your ice cream on a counter in a completely dark room and see how much visible light flows spontaneously to your eyes you idiot.

Is there any doubt now that you are just one more internet poser who really doesn't know jack? Basic mistake after basic mistake after basic mistake...and if you don't grasp the basics, you can't even begin to understand the more advanced topics...you are a religious zealot who has learned a few verses from your bible and that is the extent of your knowledge.

Geesh. I was joking on the spontaneity. I should have included a smiley.

You weren't joking any more on that error than you were on the idea that an LED represents spontaneous movement of energy from cool to warm...you are just that stupid and now are trying to backtrack...the refrigerator error is no worse than failing to differentiate between a spontaneous process and a non spontaneous process.

 

[SSDD]

At this point, I have received a few responses, although if I received 50, they would all say essentially the same thing...that being, that you were quite wrong.

You didn't need to go to all that trouble because I already said in post #487,

The system you are defining is simply an LED with nothing else. External to that LED system is a battery. I agree that is not spontaneous. .....

..... You go through intense caustic verbosity on how your system is not spontaneous. I totally agree with you that your system is not spontaneous.

So I had previously agreed with the professors said. If that is your point, you wasted your time, not to mention the professor's time for conjuring up a non sequitur to your argument.

I already told you in post #187
What you are doing is conflating your alternate definition of a different system with my penlight system which includes an internal battery. That is where your logic totally breaks down. You also ignored the above definition that a system can have chemical changes and still be spontaneous.

Dr Belanger simply recited the 2nd law that everyone knows, although he badly muffed his wording.

Dr. Belanger pointed out your notion that photons are free to flow unimpeded was incorrect

He certainly did not in the quote you gave.

Why don't you directly ask Dr Belanger, if black body radiation is forbidden from flowing from a cold body to a hot body. Or if the SB equation says that all black body radiation between objects is completely stopped when objects are at the same temperature. That is the whole issue, and would be much easier than dancing around it.

Maybe you are just to f'ing stupid to figure out that no process with a battery connected to it is spontaneous....

We both know that you are stupid, and intellectually dishonest, but do tell me what this exchange means in your twisted mind.

Dr. Bloomfield,

Thank you so much for your response. If I may, I would like to ask one point of clarification and then I promise to leave you alone. If I am understanding you, the spontaneous process part of the process is the initial movement of electrons from the P part to the N part which forms a bit of plain old silicon between the two parts. If, however, you wish to keep that process going, and actually produce light from the device, you must provide an outside energy source, ie an electric current which is not a spontaneous process.

Thank you again for your response, it is greatly appreciated

XXXX

To which he replied:

Hi XXXX

Yup, that's basically correct.

Cheers,

Jolyon Bloomfield

You should have asked if free energy of an isolated chemical process such as a battery is a spontaneous.

My god, you ask obvious questions but don't understand their answers.

Even that is not a spontaneous process...As I already pointed out to you...a spontaneous process is one that continues without the addition of energy from an outside source...when the battery goes dead, you must recharge it from an outside source...it is not spontaneous...it is stored energy. You really are a putz...

 

[Wuwei]

how is it I can see the stuff in my refrigerator? My retinas are at 98.6F, the stuff in the fridge is about 35F, yet I can see it. All the lettuce and cheese and old spaghetti sauce and everything else are emitting photons that my eyes detect. How can that be?
How can that be? Hahaha and Wuwei commented "That's actually a clever counterexample".
Showing how stupid both of you are.
What do you think the light bulb which turns on when you open the fridge door is for?
Both of you qualify for the Darwin award

As I said it was a joke on spontaneity. I should have included this

 

[SSDD]

As I said it was a joke on spontaneity. I should have included this

Bullshit...You thought that seeing stuff in the refrigerator was an example of energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...

You said..

"That's actually a clever counterexample of the SSDD misunderstanding of the wording of the second law; "

You said precisely what you thought...once again, you jumped on the crazy train with someone who didn't have a clue because you also don't have a clue.

Weasel all you like..it's your nature, but the fact that you don't grasp even the basics of physics is out on display now.

 

[Wuwei]

You weren't joking any more on that error than you were on the idea that an LED represents spontaneous movement of energy from cool to warm...you are just that stupid and now are trying to backtrack...the refrigerator error is no worse than failing to differentiate between a spontaneous process and a non spontaneous process.

Nope. A system that includes a chemical free energy process with no external energy is spontaneous. That is what I described. Your system got rid of the chemical free energy process and made it external to the system. That is not spontaneous.

Here, this is from wiki. I showed it to you before, but you must have forgotten:

A spontaneous process is the time-evolution of a system in which it releases free energy and it moves to a lower, more thermodynamically stable energy state.

free energy is the amount of work that a thermodynamic system can perform. The concept is useful in the thermodynamics of chemical or thermal processes.

Try to understand it this time around.

 

[Wuwei]

Bullshit...You thought that seeing stuff in the refrigerator was an example of energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...

You said..

"That's actually a clever counterexample of the SSDD misunderstanding of the wording of the second law; "

You said precisely what you thought...once again, you jumped on the crazy train with someone who didn't have a clue because you also don't have a clue.

Weasel all you like..it's your nature, but the fact that you don't grasp even the basics of physics is out on display now.

You have no sense of humor.

 

[Wuwei]

Did you ask your professors yet if photons or EM radiation can't flow to warmer objects? Don't you think that would be a great question for you?

 

[Sunsettommy]

Did you ask your professors yet if photons or EM radiation can't flow to warmer objects? Don't you think that would be a great question for you?

No one is denying that Photons or EM radiation can flow from a cooler object towards a warmer object, but it doesn't slow down its cooling rate at all since it is Initially WARMER than the cooler object in the first place.

 

[SSDD]

Nope. A system that includes a chemical free energy process with no external energy is spontaneous. That is what I described. Your system got rid of the chemical free energy process and made it external to the system. That is not spontaneous.

Got to say, when you are wrong, you just don't stop digging do you? Here is yet more information that you obviously didn't know. When batteries are manufactured, they put the anode, cathode and electrolyte in the "can" and guess what? The electricity has to be put in there from an outside source...the electricity is not spontaneously produced...charging is part of the manufacturing process...the energy is stored, not generated inside the battery.

Got any more lame brained ideas about what constitutes a spontaneous process?

 

[SSDD]

Did you ask your professors yet if photons or EM radiation can't flow to warmer objects? Don't you think that would be a great question for you?

When is EM radiation not photons? When are photons not EM radiation?

And no...it would be a stupid question...The second law of thermodynamics answers that question and the answer is no.