The Horowitz Report: Yes, It Gets Worse

He was a CIA asset, and there isn't one shred of evidence that says Carter was not loyal to the US.

There is MUCH of evidence Carter was a sketchy character constantly flying out to Moscow trying to make money in energy sector relate...whatever the fuck.

Don't know if FBI would have gotten the warrant if they played it straight, but there were PROPER FISA warrants on him well before he ever got with Trump's campaign, so your story about "not a shred!" is kinda ridiculous.

1. Carter was employed by Merrill-Lynch, he was not a free-lance wildcard double-agent working for Russian oligarchs. His Merrrill-Lynch supervisor had to know exactly what he was doing in Russia.
2. The fact that Carter Page flew to Moscow is NOT a crime, or even suspicious.
3. Carter Page graduated from the US Naval Academy
4. If there were warrants on him what did they find? Nothing. Which is why they had to get a new one, and it was very hard to justify, which is why the FBI had to lie to the FISA court to get it. The ONLY reason to get a new warrant was to illegally spy on the Trump campaign.
5. The IG found zero evidence that the FISA warrant on Carter Page was justified, which is why they falsified evidence. The FBI never charged Carter with anything, so that proves they only wanted to use Carter to spy on Trump.

1. You are not refuting that there was a legitimate basis for FISA warrants on this guy before he was with Trump campaign, so you can't tell us there was nothing conspicous about his behavior.

2. You are not refuting Carter made piss poor target to do any actual spying on the campaign...unless of course he left the campaign officially only to go straight to Moscow to do covert work for campaign, like setting up a back channel of communications.

If FBI wanted to spy on the campaign then Manafort and Gates would make much better targets because unlike Carter they were actually involved in the high level campaign strategy and had much more criminal baggage to justify the surveillance. Like the fact that they were undeclared foreign agents working for pro-Russia Ukrainian politicians.

1. Yes I'm refuting the FISA warrants on Carter Page. He is suing to get his reputation back. What does the FBI have on him that's legitimate to warrant surveillance?? NOTHING. In-fact he was a CIA asset!!

2. Using Carter the FBI could spy on anyone in the campaign using the "2 hop rule" whereby the FBI can spy on anyone he talks to, and anyone they talk to. Like you either have facts or you don't.....hint: you don't.

3. Manafort was not part of the campaign in the beginning as was Page, he was a "convention consultant vote counter" . The FBI should have warned Trump about Manafort like they warned Feinstein about her Chinese spy driver. They didn't warn Trump, probably to try and get something on him, anything on him, but they didn't, just ask Mueller. If Manafort was so bad why not warn Trump?

1. No you aren't, he may have a case about one warrant cited by Horowitz, but there has been nothing inappropriate found about original warrants on him.

2. Carter was not involved in high level campaign strategy, he was a foreign policy advisor and not a top one either, the way Flynn was.

3, Manafort and his aid Gates CHAIRED the campaign, it's straight crazy to say that they were not much higher level officials than Carter and presented far more interest in terms of actual political spying.

1. If the original warrants on Carter were valid or "warranted", he would be in prison for a crime instead of a free man.
What crimes did the "original" surveillance on Carter uncover? NONE!!!! He was never charged with anything! He was a CIA asset!!

2. The FBI found a chump (Carter Page) that served their purpose to spy on the Trump campaign using the "2-hop rule".

3. Corey Lewandowski was the campaign chair from January 2015 thru May 2016 when Manafort became the campaign chair, then Manafort was fired in August 2016 when Steve Bannon became campaign chair thru to the November 2016 election.
So Manafort was Trump's campaign chair for at most 4-months of a 22-month campaign, or about 18% of the campaign, not much.
What part of the FBI spied on the Trump campaign AND transition team with impunity don't you get? They didn't need any more authority, the FBI had the entire Trump campaign via Carter Page's bogus FISA warrant.

Corey Lewandowski - Wikipedia
Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign - Wikipedia
 
There is MUCH of evidence Carter was a sketchy character constantly flying out to Moscow trying to make money in energy sector relate...whatever the fuck.

Don't know if FBI would have gotten the warrant if they played it straight, but there were PROPER FISA warrants on him well before he ever got with Trump's campaign, so your story about "not a shred!" is kinda ridiculous.

1. Carter was employed by Merrill-Lynch, he was not a free-lance wildcard double-agent working for Russian oligarchs. His Merrrill-Lynch supervisor had to know exactly what he was doing in Russia.
2. The fact that Carter Page flew to Moscow is NOT a crime, or even suspicious.
3. Carter Page graduated from the US Naval Academy
4. If there were warrants on him what did they find? Nothing. Which is why they had to get a new one, and it was very hard to justify, which is why the FBI had to lie to the FISA court to get it. The ONLY reason to get a new warrant was to illegally spy on the Trump campaign.
5. The IG found zero evidence that the FISA warrant on Carter Page was justified, which is why they falsified evidence. The FBI never charged Carter with anything, so that proves they only wanted to use Carter to spy on Trump.

1. You are not refuting that there was a legitimate basis for FISA warrants on this guy before he was with Trump campaign, so you can't tell us there was nothing conspicous about his behavior.

2. You are not refuting Carter made piss poor target to do any actual spying on the campaign...unless of course he left the campaign officially only to go straight to Moscow to do covert work for campaign, like setting up a back channel of communications.

If FBI wanted to spy on the campaign then Manafort and Gates would make much better targets because unlike Carter they were actually involved in the high level campaign strategy and had much more criminal baggage to justify the surveillance. Like the fact that they were undeclared foreign agents working for pro-Russia Ukrainian politicians.

1. Yes I'm refuting the FISA warrants on Carter Page. He is suing to get his reputation back. What does the FBI have on him that's legitimate to warrant surveillance?? NOTHING. In-fact he was a CIA asset!!

2. Using Carter the FBI could spy on anyone in the campaign using the "2 hop rule" whereby the FBI can spy on anyone he talks to, and anyone they talk to. Like you either have facts or you don't.....hint: you don't.

3. Manafort was not part of the campaign in the beginning as was Page, he was a "convention consultant vote counter" . The FBI should have warned Trump about Manafort like they warned Feinstein about her Chinese spy driver. They didn't warn Trump, probably to try and get something on him, anything on him, but they didn't, just ask Mueller. If Manafort was so bad why not warn Trump?

1. No you aren't, he may have a case about one warrant cited by Horowitz, but there has been nothing inappropriate found about original warrants on him.

2. Carter was not involved in high level campaign strategy, he was a foreign policy advisor and not a top one either, the way Flynn was.

3, Manafort and his aid Gates CHAIRED the campaign, it's straight crazy to say that they were not much higher level officials than Carter and presented far more interest in terms of actual political spying.

1. If the original warrants on Carter were valid or "warranted", he would be in prison for a crime instead of a free man.

Thats not how it works. Warrants are issued based on reasonable suspicion standard, not proof of a crime standard.
 
I believe the Steele dossier. It had little to do with FiSA warrant on Page.
In fact, prior to the dossier being used, the FISA court had refused the warrant. It was only after they included the dossier that the court granted the warrant.

We all know that the Steele dossier is nothing but garbage and lies.

What does that say about those who were running this scam, and more importantly, what does that say about a FISA court that rejected them at first, and then did not show the least bit of concern when they returned and said, "Well, look at this then.".

That would be a time for alarm bells and red flags.

No one was running a scam , they should have FISA warrants on those who talk to Russian spies.
You don't get warrants on CIA members whose job is to talk to Russians, spies or otherwise.

It was a scam. It became even more of one and a crime when an FBI lawyer altered a legal document to change its meaning.

Wtf are you talking about? Carter was never a CIA member and there is nothing about him actively cooperating with CIA during or after Trump's campaign.


so uninformed

He might be a CIA member, but we will never know. Its all irrelevant, the Russia Investigation was warranted and unbias.
 
So Manafort was Trump's campaign chair for at most 4-months of a 22-month campaign, or about 18% of the campaign, not much.
What part of the FBI spied on the Trump campaign AND transition team with impunity don't you get?

WTF? There was ONLY FISA warrants on Carter.

He chaired or had a major role in the campaign for exactly ZERO days.

Trump campaign communications director Jason Miller said of Page, "He’s never been a part of our campaign. Period."

Trump camp backs away from adviser suspected of Kremlin ties

Weird huh?
 
Last edited:
1. Carter was employed by Merrill-Lynch, he was not a free-lance wildcard double-agent working for Russian oligarchs. His Merrrill-Lynch supervisor had to know exactly what he was doing in Russia.
2. The fact that Carter Page flew to Moscow is NOT a crime, or even suspicious.
3. Carter Page graduated from the US Naval Academy
4. If there were warrants on him what did they find? Nothing. Which is why they had to get a new one, and it was very hard to justify, which is why the FBI had to lie to the FISA court to get it. The ONLY reason to get a new warrant was to illegally spy on the Trump campaign.
5. The IG found zero evidence that the FISA warrant on Carter Page was justified, which is why they falsified evidence. The FBI never charged Carter with anything, so that proves they only wanted to use Carter to spy on Trump.

1. You are not refuting that there was a legitimate basis for FISA warrants on this guy before he was with Trump campaign, so you can't tell us there was nothing conspicous about his behavior.

2. You are not refuting Carter made piss poor target to do any actual spying on the campaign...unless of course he left the campaign officially only to go straight to Moscow to do covert work for campaign, like setting up a back channel of communications.

If FBI wanted to spy on the campaign then Manafort and Gates would make much better targets because unlike Carter they were actually involved in the high level campaign strategy and had much more criminal baggage to justify the surveillance. Like the fact that they were undeclared foreign agents working for pro-Russia Ukrainian politicians.

1. Yes I'm refuting the FISA warrants on Carter Page. He is suing to get his reputation back. What does the FBI have on him that's legitimate to warrant surveillance?? NOTHING. In-fact he was a CIA asset!!

2. Using Carter the FBI could spy on anyone in the campaign using the "2 hop rule" whereby the FBI can spy on anyone he talks to, and anyone they talk to. Like you either have facts or you don't.....hint: you don't.

3. Manafort was not part of the campaign in the beginning as was Page, he was a "convention consultant vote counter" . The FBI should have warned Trump about Manafort like they warned Feinstein about her Chinese spy driver. They didn't warn Trump, probably to try and get something on him, anything on him, but they didn't, just ask Mueller. If Manafort was so bad why not warn Trump?

1. No you aren't, he may have a case about one warrant cited by Horowitz, but there has been nothing inapropriate found about original warrants on him.

2. Carter was not involved in high level campaign strategy, he was a foreign policy advisor and not a top one either, the way Flynn was.

3, Manafort and his aid Gates CHAIRED the campaign, it's straight crazy to say that they were not much higher level officials than Carter and presented far more intnerest in terms of actual political spying.

So Trump has every right to nest FBI spies on the Biden Money Laundering operating, right? Far far far more reason than Obama ever had with Trump

We'll see if you're still singing this tune with the Coup Plotters AND BACKERS are asked if they'd prefer to be blindfolded

Nonsence, President driving ANY DOJ investigation from top-down is HIGHLY inapropriate. The way Trump is normalizing such swamp is doing big time damage to our country.

There is ZERO evidence to date that Obama directed any DOJ investigations. He knew better than to do crazy shit like cornering FBI Director and start telling him about how he should let Hillary go. :rolleyes:

So you agree Trump needs to plant FBI spies in the Biden Money Laundering Operation and monitor all his communications
 
In fact, prior to the dossier being used, the FISA court had refused the warrant. It was only after they included the dossier that the court granted the warrant.

We all know that the Steele dossier is nothing but garbage and lies.

What does that say about those who were running this scam, and more importantly, what does that say about a FISA court that rejected them at first, and then did not show the least bit of concern when they returned and said, "Well, look at this then.".

That would be a time for alarm bells and red flags.

No one was running a scam , they should have FISA warrants on those who talk to Russian spies.
You don't get warrants on CIA members whose job is to talk to Russians, spies or otherwise.

It was a scam. It became even more of one and a crime when an FBI lawyer altered a legal document to change its meaning.

Wtf are you talking about? Carter was never a CIA member and there is nothing about him actively cooperating with CIA during or after Trump's campaign.


so uninformed

So not constructive. You've got evidence to the contrary? Ok, put it up.

It's in the Horowitz report.
For All The World to see.
 
1. You are not refuting that there was a legitimate basis for FISA warrants on this guy before he was with Trump campaign, so you can't tell us there was nothing conspicous about his behavior.

2. You are not refuting Carter made piss poor target to do any actual spying on the campaign...unless of course he left the campaign officially only to go straight to Moscow to do covert work for campaign, like setting up a back channel of communications.

If FBI wanted to spy on the campaign then Manafort and Gates would make much better targets because unlike Carter they were actually involved in the high level campaign strategy and had much more criminal baggage to justify the surveillance. Like the fact that they were undeclared foreign agents working for pro-Russia Ukrainian politicians.

1. Yes I'm refuting the FISA warrants on Carter Page. He is suing to get his reputation back. What does the FBI have on him that's legitimate to warrant surveillance?? NOTHING. In-fact he was a CIA asset!!

2. Using Carter the FBI could spy on anyone in the campaign using the "2 hop rule" whereby the FBI can spy on anyone he talks to, and anyone they talk to. Like you either have facts or you don't.....hint: you don't.

3. Manafort was not part of the campaign in the beginning as was Page, he was a "convention consultant vote counter" . The FBI should have warned Trump about Manafort like they warned Feinstein about her Chinese spy driver. They didn't warn Trump, probably to try and get something on him, anything on him, but they didn't, just ask Mueller. If Manafort was so bad why not warn Trump?

1. No you aren't, he may have a case about one warrant cited by Horowitz, but there has been nothing inapropriate found about original warrants on him.

2. Carter was not involved in high level campaign strategy, he was a foreign policy advisor and not a top one either, the way Flynn was.

3, Manafort and his aid Gates CHAIRED the campaign, it's straight crazy to say that they were not much higher level officials than Carter and presented far more intnerest in terms of actual political spying.

So Trump has every right to nest FBI spies on the Biden Money Laundering operating, right? Far far far more reason than Obama ever had with Trump

We'll see if you're still singing this tune with the Coup Plotters AND BACKERS are asked if they'd prefer to be blindfolded

Nonsence, President driving ANY DOJ investigation from top-down is HIGHLY inapropriate. The way Trump is normalizing such swamp is doing big time damage to our country.

There is ZERO evidence to date that Obama directed any DOJ investigations. He knew better than to do crazy shit like cornering FBI Director and start telling him about how he should let Hillary go. :rolleyes:

So you agree Trump needs to plant FBI spies in the Biden Money Laundering Operation and monitor all his communications

It takes an idiot to read what I wrote and come to such conclusion.
 
No one was running a scam , they should have FISA warrants on those who talk to Russian spies.
You don't get warrants on CIA members whose job is to talk to Russians, spies or otherwise.

It was a scam. It became even more of one and a crime when an FBI lawyer altered a legal document to change its meaning.

Wtf are you talking about? Carter was never a CIA member and there is nothing about him actively cooperating with CIA during or after Trump's campaign.


so uninformed

So not constructive. You've got evidence to the contrary? Ok, put it up.

It's in the Horowitz report.
For All The World to see.

Not it isn't. Stop making up bullshit.
 
1. Carter was employed by Merrill-Lynch, he was not a free-lance wildcard double-agent working for Russian oligarchs. His Merrrill-Lynch supervisor had to know exactly what he was doing in Russia.
2. The fact that Carter Page flew to Moscow is NOT a crime, or even suspicious.
3. Carter Page graduated from the US Naval Academy
4. If there were warrants on him what did they find? Nothing. Which is why they had to get a new one, and it was very hard to justify, which is why the FBI had to lie to the FISA court to get it. The ONLY reason to get a new warrant was to illegally spy on the Trump campaign.
5. The IG found zero evidence that the FISA warrant on Carter Page was justified, which is why they falsified evidence. The FBI never charged Carter with anything, so that proves they only wanted to use Carter to spy on Trump.

1. You are not refuting that there was a legitimate basis for FISA warrants on this guy before he was with Trump campaign, so you can't tell us there was nothing conspicous about his behavior.

2. You are not refuting Carter made piss poor target to do any actual spying on the campaign...unless of course he left the campaign officially only to go straight to Moscow to do covert work for campaign, like setting up a back channel of communications.

If FBI wanted to spy on the campaign then Manafort and Gates would make much better targets because unlike Carter they were actually involved in the high level campaign strategy and had much more criminal baggage to justify the surveillance. Like the fact that they were undeclared foreign agents working for pro-Russia Ukrainian politicians.

1. Yes I'm refuting the FISA warrants on Carter Page. He is suing to get his reputation back. What does the FBI have on him that's legitimate to warrant surveillance?? NOTHING. In-fact he was a CIA asset!!

2. Using Carter the FBI could spy on anyone in the campaign using the "2 hop rule" whereby the FBI can spy on anyone he talks to, and anyone they talk to. Like you either have facts or you don't.....hint: you don't.

3. Manafort was not part of the campaign in the beginning as was Page, he was a "convention consultant vote counter" . The FBI should have warned Trump about Manafort like they warned Feinstein about her Chinese spy driver. They didn't warn Trump, probably to try and get something on him, anything on him, but they didn't, just ask Mueller. If Manafort was so bad why not warn Trump?

1. No you aren't, he may have a case about one warrant cited by Horowitz, but there has been nothing inappropriate found about original warrants on him.

2. Carter was not involved in high level campaign strategy, he was a foreign policy advisor and not a top one either, the way Flynn was.

3, Manafort and his aid Gates CHAIRED the campaign, it's straight crazy to say that they were not much higher level officials than Carter and presented far more interest in terms of actual political spying.

1. If the original warrants on Carter were valid or "warranted", he would be in prison for a crime instead of a free man.

Thats not how it works. Warrants are issued based on reasonable suspicion standard, not proof of a crime standard.

True but after 10 or 20 years what's the point of the surveillance?
Sooner or later even the FBI needs to realize that they are barking up the wrong tree.
My point is that the lack of a crime, after long term surveillance, proves that the surveillance was not justified..
 
In fact, prior to the dossier being used, the FISA court had refused the warrant. It was only after they included the dossier that the court granted the warrant.

We all know that the Steele dossier is nothing but garbage and lies.

What does that say about those who were running this scam, and more importantly, what does that say about a FISA court that rejected them at first, and then did not show the least bit of concern when they returned and said, "Well, look at this then.".

That would be a time for alarm bells and red flags.

No one was running a scam , they should have FISA warrants on those who talk to Russian spies.
You don't get warrants on CIA members whose job is to talk to Russians, spies or otherwise.

It was a scam. It became even more of one and a crime when an FBI lawyer altered a legal document to change its meaning.

Wtf are you talking about? Carter was never a CIA member and there is nothing about him actively cooperating with CIA during or after Trump's campaign.


so uninformed

He might be a CIA member, but we will never know. Its all irrelevant, the Russia Investigation was warranted and unbias.

Facts- (per the report)

Definitely a CIA asset
The launching was justified - from there - all evidence shows "no"
A definite bias was shown, none of the people that voluntarily spoke with Horowitz were dumb enough to say - yes it was political.
 
You don't get warrants on CIA members whose job is to talk to Russians, spies or otherwise.

It was a scam. It became even more of one and a crime when an FBI lawyer altered a legal document to change its meaning.

Wtf are you talking about? Carter was never a CIA member and there is nothing about him actively cooperating with CIA during or after Trump's campaign.


so uninformed

So not constructive. You've got evidence to the contrary? Ok, put it up.

It's in the Horowitz report.
For All The World to see.

Not it isn't. Stop making up bullshit.


So fucking stupid
 
So Manafort was Trump's campaign chair for at most 4-months of a 22-month campaign, or about 18% of the campaign, not much.
What part of the FBI spied on the Trump campaign AND transition team with impunity don't you get?

WTF? There was ONLY FISA warrants on Carter.

He chaired or had a major role in the campaign for exactly ZERO days.

Trump campaign communications director Jason Miller said of Page, "He’s never been a part of our campaign. Period."

Trump camp backs away from adviser suspected of Kremlin ties

Weird huh?

Like I said, the FBI can use the "2-hop rule" to spy on the suspect, anyone he talks to, and anyone they talk to. So the Trump campaign was under surveillance, just ask Admiral Rogers (NSA) who warned Trump.

This article shows that Carter Page was part of the Trump campaign for 6-months.

IG report: A timeline of the FBI's Russia probe
March 21, 2016
Donald Trump, a contender for the Republican presidential nomination, announces Carter Page as his campaign's foreign policy adviser.
Sept. 23, 2016
Yahoo News reports that U.S. intelligence officials are investigating whether Page communicated privately with senior Russian officials about U.S. sanctions under a potential Trump administration. The next day, Page is removed from the Trump campaign.
 
So Manafort was Trump's campaign chair for at most 4-months of a 22-month campaign, or about 18% of the campaign, not much.
What part of the FBI spied on the Trump campaign AND transition team with impunity don't you get?

WTF? There was ONLY FISA warrants on Carter.

He chaired or had a major role in the campaign for exactly ZERO days.

Trump campaign communications director Jason Miller said of Page, "He’s never been a part of our campaign. Period."

Trump camp backs away from adviser suspected of Kremlin ties

Weird huh?

Like I said, the FBI can use the "2-hop rule" to spy on the suspect, anyone he talks to, and anyone they talk to. So the Trump campaign was under surveillance, just ask Admiral Rogers (NSA) who warned Trump.

This article shows that Carter Page was part of the Trump campaign for 6-months.

IG report: A timeline of the FBI's Russia probe
March 21, 2016
Donald Trump, a contender for the Republican presidential nomination, announces Carter Page as his campaign's foreign policy adviser.
Sept. 23, 2016
Yahoo News reports that U.S. intelligence officials are investigating whether Page communicated privately with senior Russian officials about U.S. sanctions under a potential Trump administration. The next day, Page is removed from the Trump campaign.


Doesn't seem as if facts have any affect on that one.
 
No one was running a scam , they should have FISA warrants on those who talk to Russian spies.
You don't get warrants on CIA members whose job is to talk to Russians, spies or otherwise.

It was a scam. It became even more of one and a crime when an FBI lawyer altered a legal document to change its meaning.

Wtf are you talking about? Carter was never a CIA member and there is nothing about him actively cooperating with CIA during or after Trump's campaign.


so uninformed

He might be a CIA member, but we will never know. Its all irrelevant, the Russia Investigation was warranted and unbias.

Facts- (per the report)

Definitely a CIA asset
The launching was justified - from there - all evidence shows "no"
A definite bias was shown, none of the people that voluntarily spoke with Horowitz were dumb enough to say - yes it was political.

A CIA asset isn't always by choice. Also no there was no bias in the investigation, and the FISA warrant , if real, was a separate issue.
-----------------------------------------------------------

There are different categories of assets, including people who:

  • Willingly work for a foreign government for ideological reasons such as being against their government, but live in a country that doesn't allow political opposition. They may elect to work with a foreign power to change their own country because there are few other ways available.
  • Work for monetary gain. Intelligence services often pay good wages to people in important positions that are willing to betray secrets.
  • Have been blackmailed and are forced into their role.
  • Do not even know they are being used (so called "useful idiots"). Assets can be loyal to their country, but may still provide a foreign agent with information through failures in information safety, such as using insecure computers or not following proper OPSEC procedures during day-to-day chatting.
  • Asset (intelligence) - Wikipedia
 
You don't get warrants on CIA members whose job is to talk to Russians, spies or otherwise.

It was a scam. It became even more of one and a crime when an FBI lawyer altered a legal document to change its meaning.

Wtf are you talking about? Carter was never a CIA member and there is nothing about him actively cooperating with CIA during or after Trump's campaign.


so uninformed

He might be a CIA member, but we will never know. Its all irrelevant, the Russia Investigation was warranted and unbias.

Facts- (per the report)

Definitely a CIA asset
The launching was justified - from there - all evidence shows "no"
A definite bias was shown, none of the people that voluntarily spoke with Horowitz were dumb enough to say - yes it was political.

A CIA asset isn't always by choice. Also no there was no bias in the investigation, and the FISA warrant , if real, was a separate issue.
-----------------------------------------------------------

There are different categories of assets, including people who:

  • Willingly work for a foreign government for ideological reasons such as being against their government, but live in a country that doesn't allow political opposition. They may elect to work with a foreign power to change their own country because there are few other ways available.
  • Work for monetary gain. Intelligence services often pay good wages to people in important positions that are willing to betray secrets.
  • Have been blackmailed and are forced into their role.
  • Do not even know they are being used (so called "useful idiots"). Assets can be loyal to their country, but may still provide a foreign agent with information through failures in information safety, such as using insecure computers or not following proper OPSEC procedures during day-to-day chatting.
  • Asset (intelligence) - Wikipedia


I dismiss you.
 

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