The Impending End of Islam: Danger

[JStone]

This is not one of your threads when you cast aspersions, far and wide....but rather a sociological revelation as to factors that will result in a diminution of Muslim populations.

It not only has nothing to do with aspects that you claim for Muslims, in general...but will have no effect on wealthy, well-educated Islamist radicals such as those who flew planes into the Twin Towers.

Islamist radicals? What kind of bullshit are you even talking about? The concept of Islamist radicals is post-9/11 Western politically correctness to make Muslims feel better about themselves. There is only one version of Islam: Islam.

Sad, Stoned, when rage takes precedent over education...

...let's see if I can put you back on the right track:

The following is from a speech by Bernard Lewis
Cleveland E. Dodge Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies, Princeton University.

It is an eye-opener, if not an epiphany.

Bernard Lewis's What Went Wrong? and Crisis of Islam paint a bleak picture of the state of Islam, today. Lewis points to the regression and repression of the Islamic world and the sadness of an ideology known primarily for terrorism, today

 

[Ropey]

There will be no 'baby boom' in said nations.

Why, because you don't want it?

What is the matter with you!!!


There is nothing, no part, of any posts that are 'what I want.'
You must realize that these are facts, since you have not tried to
rebut them..

It's called projection. Ekrem talks about what he wishes and wants. Then when he tries to determine your reasoning for your enjoyment of debate, there is nothing there.

So he inserts his own and projects it back onto you. (pejoratively)

 

[Ropey]

Small countries are being shown which I think would skew the entire "Umma" (excluding Israel of course). Saudi Arabia has a high literacy rate and if the ladies could drive themselves around, well it might be a nice thing. But the major portion of the middle eastern Arab population has a lower literacy rate.

Here's a few more details to round out the Umma. (No, not Pink Floyd)


ex-Soviet:

Kazakhstan: 99.3%
Tajikistan: 99.1%
Uzbekistan: 99%
Turkmenistan: 98.3%
Azerbaijan: 98.2%
Kyrgyzstan: 98.1%

Islamic States:

Afghanistan: 12.6% (The only Muslim country in the region that was not part of the USSR)
Bahrain: 85% (A pleasant surprise)
Brunei: 88.5%
Iran: 73%
Mauritania: 31.9%
Oman: 73.5%
Pakistan: 36% (Thanks to General Al-Huq's Madrassas)
Yemen: 30% (It would be interesting to compare the old Democratic Yemen vs. the part that had always been under Islamism)
Saudi Arabia: 70.8%

Islam as State Religion:

Qatar: 88.6%
Algeria: 61%
Bangladesh: 31.8%
Egypt: 59.4% (This is fucking pathetic, given that Egypt's longtime party is a member of the Socialist International. Why those fucks have not been expelled, I'll never know.)
Kuwait: 91%
Malaysia: 85.4% (Wonder about the ethnic breakdown here? I'd assume close to universal among Chinese.)
Maldives: 97.3% (Hmmm...For a country barbaric enough to ban religious minorities from voting or acquiring full citizenship, surprisingly impressive.)
Morocco: 39.6%
Tunisia: 65.3%
UAE: 81.7%

Secular states with Muslim pluralities and majorities, excluding ex-Soviet:

Burkina Faso: 15.2%
Gambia: 32.8%
Guinea-Bissau: 27.4%
Mali: 39.6%
Senegal: 30.7%
Chad: 39.3%
Djibouti: 59.4%
Somalia: 25.8%
Indonesia: 86.8%
Albania: 79.5%
Bosnia and Herzegovina: 94%
Turkey: 79.6%

Literacy female statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Education

The above is a collation of the female statistics.

Literacy male statistics - countries compared - Nationmaster

^ Men

 

[PoliticalChic]

There will be no 'baby boom' in said nations.

Why, because you don't want it?

“While Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's call for women to give birth to at least three children has received the support of some individuals and organizations,… “Turkey currently has a young population, but if current trends continue it will be aging by 2038. Western societies are currently facing an aging population problem. Every family should have three children if we wish to preserve Turkey’s young population.” Society reacts to PM's call for couples to have 3 kids

a. “…demand for contraceptives went up…” Goldman, “How Civilizations Die,” p. 8.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why, because you don't want it?

What is the matter with you!!!


There is nothing, no part, of any posts that are 'what I want.'
You must realize that these are facts, since you have not tried to
rebut them..

It's called projection. Ekrem talks about what he wishes and wants. Then when he tries to determine your reasoning for your enjoyment of debate, there is nothing there.

So he inserts his own and projects it back onto you. (pejoratively)

I think you might have an interest in this book, as Goldman makes what I found to be an astounding revelation....

1. In 2001, a Knesset report stated that in the 'whole area west of Jordan,' Jews represented 50.5% of the population to 49.5% for Arabs.

2. Projecting the higher birthrate of the Arabs, Haifa University stated that Arabs would be 58% of the area by 2020, and Jews 42%.

3. This was the accepted truth and the reason for much of Israeli policy and the imploring for peace.

a. "Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said failure to negotiate a two-state solution with the Palestinians would spell the end of the State of Israel....Mr Olmert said it was not the first time he had articulated his fears about the demographic threat to Israel as a Jewish state from a faster growing Palestinian population."
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Olmert warns of 'end of Israel'

4. But the opposite was occurring! The Jewish birth rate was rising steadily, and the Arab birthrate was falling. ...the fertility rate of Jews and Arabs had nearly converged by 2009, to 0.7 births per woman from six more per Arab woman.

a. Most remarkable is that today's "secular" Israeli women show a rate of 2.6, far and away the highest in the industrial world. Their own mothers had a rate of 2.1!

b. Between 1994 and 2009, Arab births in Israel remained steady at 39,000, while Jewish births rose from 80,000 to 120,000. The ultr-religious Jews (8% of the population) have a fertility rate of 8.5, which brings Israeli fertility to 2.9 per woman.

c. At this rate, Israel will have a larger population than Poland by 2085.

How do you like them apples, Ropey??

 

[PoliticalChic]

I am skeptical. Although I wish this to be true, I doubt it. From what I read the birth rate amongst Arabs and Muslims is very higher! In most muslims countries from Turkey to Iran to Algeria to Banglesh the percentage of Muslims making the population is growing. Most are well above 90% some are close to 100%. Even Lebanon, who in the 40s had a Christian majority is most has as low as a 15% to a high 25% Christian minority, has a rapidly growing Muslim population percentage.

In Europe, Muslims are recording the highest birthrates!

I think part of the reason many Muslim countries like Algeria, Morococo, Saudi Arabia and Iran have lower overall population growth rates is they have such high emigration rates, most to the West!

I think Ekrem is right, this is selective analysis. Islam is dying it's unfortuately growing. It's the native populations of the West, East Europe, America, China and Russia that are going down. Europe is hit the hardest. The native population set up the welfare state for it's inhabitants, but many of the poor Muslim immigrates abuse and stretch it to the limits. The natives fund it, therefore, they have smaller families, because that is what they can afford. The Muslim immigrates abuse it and take, therefore, they can have larger families on other people's dime!

"In Europe, Muslims are recording the highest birthrates!"
Absolutely true.
The point here is that said birthrates are and will continue to expericence a precipitous drop.

"I think Ekrem is right, this is selective analysis. Islam is dying it's unfortuately growing."
It seems that the following two leaders don't agree with you and Ekky.

1. “While Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's call for women to give birth to at least three children has received the support of some individuals and organizations,… “Turkey currently has a young population, but if current trends continue it will be aging by 2038. Western societies are currently facing an aging population problem. Every family should have three children if we wish to preserve Turkey’s young population.” Society reacts to PM's call for couples to have 3 kids

a. “…demand for contraceptives went up…” Goldman, “How Civilizations Die,” p. 8.

2. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad inaugurated a new policy on Tuesday to encourage population growth, dismissing Iran’s decades of family planning as ungodly and a Western import….Throughout the 1990s, Iran tried to reduce population growth by encouraging men and women to use free or inexpensive contraceptives, as well as vasectomies. The government brought down the country’s population growth rate from its 1986 height of 3.9 percent to just 1.6 percent in 2006. Ahmadinejad caused public outcry, however, when shortly after he was elected in 2005 he said two children per family were not enough and urged Iranians to have more. Iran to pay for new babies to boost population - Iran - Salon.com

a. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has urged girls to marry at the age of 16, according to newspaper reports. The leader criticised the current average marrying age of between 24 and 26. Iran: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad urges girls to marry at 16 | World news | The Guardian

 

[Ropey]

What is the matter with you!!!


There is nothing, no part, of any posts that are 'what I want.'
You must realize that these are facts, since you have not tried to
rebut them..

It's called projection. Ekrem talks about what he wishes and wants. Then when he tries to determine your reasoning for your enjoyment of debate, there is nothing there.

So he inserts his own and projects it back onto you. (pejoratively)

I think you might have an interest in this book, as Goldman makes what I found to be an astounding revelation....

1. In 2001, a Knesset report stated that in the 'whole area west of Jordan,' Jews represented 50.5% of the population to 49.5% for Arabs.

2. Projecting the higher birthrate of the Arabs, Haifa University stated that Arabs would be 58% of the area by 2020, and Jews 42%.

3. This was the accepted truth and the reason for much of Israeli policy and the imploring for peace.

a. "Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said failure to negotiate a two-state solution with the Palestinians would spell the end of the State of Israel....Mr Olmert said it was not the first time he had articulated his fears about the demographic threat to Israel as a Jewish state from a faster growing Palestinian population."
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Olmert warns of 'end of Israel'

4. But the opposite was occurring! The Jewish birth rate was rising steadily, and the Arab birthrate was falling. ...the fertility rate of Jews and Arabs had nearly converged by 2009, to 0.7 births per woman from six more per Arab woman.

a. Most remarkable is that today's "secular" Israeli women show a rate of 2.6, far and away the highest in the industrial world. Their own mothers had a rate of 2.1!

b. Between 1994 and 2009, Arab births in Israel remained steady at 39,000, while Jewish births rose from 80,000 to 120,000. The ultr-religious Jews (8% of the population) have a fertility rate of 8.5, which brings Israeli fertility to 2.9 per woman.

c. At this rate, Israel will have a larger population than Poland by 2085.

How do you like them apples, Ropey??

Well, number crunching is important. The ultra religious of both sides are beating it like a banjo PC...

I'll have a bit of cheese please with one of your fine Macs.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It's called projection. Ekrem talks about what he wishes and wants. Then when he tries to determine your reasoning for your enjoyment of debate, there is nothing there.

So he inserts his own and projects it back onto you. (pejoratively)

I think you might have an interest in this book, as Goldman makes what I found to be an astounding revelation....

1. In 2001, a Knesset report stated that in the 'whole area west of Jordan,' Jews represented 50.5% of the population to 49.5% for Arabs.

2. Projecting the higher birthrate of the Arabs, Haifa University stated that Arabs would be 58% of the area by 2020, and Jews 42%.

3. This was the accepted truth and the reason for much of Israeli policy and the imploring for peace.

a. "Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said failure to negotiate a two-state solution with the Palestinians would spell the end of the State of Israel....Mr Olmert said it was not the first time he had articulated his fears about the demographic threat to Israel as a Jewish state from a faster growing Palestinian population."
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Olmert warns of 'end of Israel'

4. But the opposite was occurring! The Jewish birth rate was rising steadily, and the Arab birthrate was falling. ...the fertility rate of Jews and Arabs had nearly converged by 2009, to 0.7 births per woman from six more per Arab woman.

a. Most remarkable is that today's "secular" Israeli women show a rate of 2.6, far and away the highest in the industrial world. Their own mothers had a rate of 2.1!

b. Between 1994 and 2009, Arab births in Israel remained steady at 39,000, while Jewish births rose from 80,000 to 120,000. The ultr-religious Jews (8% of the population) have a fertility rate of 8.5, which brings Israeli fertility to 2.9 per woman.

c. At this rate, Israel will have a larger population than Poland by 2085.

How do you like them apples, Ropey??

Well, number crunching is important. The ultra religious of both sides are beating it like a banjo PC...

I'll have a bit of cheese please with one of your fine Macs.

I knew you'd like that....amazing.
I, of course, believed that the Arab birthrate was far higher than the Israeli.


But...instead of apples, that will have to be kimchi!

 

[Ropey]

Statistics, and nation (global) wide independent poll data driven information is a good thing.

Wikipedia, yada, yada of non factual diatribe, is often not so real but funnily expounded on without linkages or linkages to sites that promote diatribe couched as fact and it's not hard to understand why they seek to pervert true information.

Which IS why I have always appreciated your posts. They inform with data driven sources.

But...instead of apples, that will have to be kimchi!

Take a look at the statistics of Islam vs Christianity growth in Africa. Dig deep.

And yes, kimchi is fine as well.

 

[GogUndMagog]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLmtWVHHgYU&feature=channel_video_title]Meet the Enemy: Osama's Handler: the CIA's Michael Scheuer - YouTube[/ame]

 

[waltky]

Mebbe all dem Pakistanis gonna turn Buhddist...

Chinese to be taught in Pakistani schools
Feb 5, 2012: Chinese will soon be taught in schools across Pakistan, said a minister.

Federal minister for information and broadcasting Firdous Ashiq Awan said arrangements were being made for introducing Chinese language at school level across the country and this programme would soon be initiated.

She added that steps were being taken to promote Chinese language among the people, reported Associated Press of Pakistan.

"China is our trustworthy friend and always supports Pakistan on various international issues and Chinese language at this juncture has become more imperative for enhancing bilateral trade between Pakistan and China," she said in Sialkot city.

Language was a hurdle between the two friendly countries to increase bilateral trade, the minister said.

Source

 

[JStone]

Allah is fucked.

The Economist Magazine: Arab World Self-Doomed To Failure

WHAT went wrong with the Arab world? Why is it so stuck behind the times? It is not an obviously unlucky region. Fatly endowed with oil, and with its people sharing a rich cultural, religious and linguistic heritage, it is faced neither with endemic poverty nor with ethnic conflict. But, with barely an exception, its autocratic rulers, whether presidents or kings, give up their authority only when they die; its elections are a sick joke; half its people are treated as lesser legal and economic beings, and more than half its young, burdened by joblessness and stifled by conservative religious tradition, are said to want to get out of the place as soon as they can.

One in five Arabs still live on less than $2 a day. And, over the past 20 years, growth in income per head, at an annual rate of 0.5%, was lower than anywhere else in the world except sub-Saharan Africa. At this rate, it will take the average Arab 140 years to double his income, a target that some regions are set to reach in less than ten years. Stagnant growth, together with a fast-rising population, means vanishing jobs. Around 12m people, or 15% of the labour force, are already unemployed, and on present trends the number could rise to 25m by 2010.

Freedom. This deficit explains many of the fundamental things that are wrong with the Arab world: the survival of absolute autocracies; the holding of bogus elections; confusion between the executive and the judiciary (the report points out the close linguistic link between the two in Arabic); constraints on the media and on civil society; and a patriarchal, intolerant, sometimes suffocating social environment. The great wave of democratisation that has opened up so much of the world over the past 15 years seems to have left the Arabs untouched. Democracy is occasionally offered, but as a concession, not as a right. Freedom of expression and freedom of association are both sharply limited. Freedom House, an American-based monitor of political and civil rights, records that no Arab country has genuinely free media, and only three have “partly free”. The rest are not free

Knowledge. “If God were to humiliate a human being,” wrote Imam Ali bin abi Taleb in the sixth century, “He would deny him knowledge.” Although the Arabs spend a higher percentage of GDP on education than any other developing region, it is not, it seems, well spent. The quality of education has deteriorated pitifully, and there is a severe mismatch between the labour market and the education system. Adult illiteracy rates have declined but are still very high: 65m adults are illiterate, almost two-thirds of them women. Some 10m children still have no schooling at all. One of the gravest results of their poor education is that the Arabs, who once led the world in science, are dropping ever further behind in scientific research and in information technology. Investment in research and development is less than one-seventh of the world average. Only 0.6% of the population uses the Internet, and 1.2% have personal computers.

Women's status. The one thing that every outsider knows about the Arab world is that it does not treat its women as full citizens. How can a society prosper when it stifles half its productive potential? After all, even though women's literacy rates have trebled in the past 30 years, one in every two Arab women still can neither read nor write. Their participation in their countries' political and economic life is the lowest in the world.

Arab development: Self-doomed to failure | The Economist

 

[waltky]

Granny says dem Mooslamics...

... is just a buncha mad bombers.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Islam is ignorant. Muhammad was an illiterate cave dwelling bum until he married a wealthy woman. After she died, he resorted to a career of hijacking caravans and invading other peoples' towns and stealing their possessions.

Islam says the mind is like a donkey and you leave the donkey outside when you enter the house of allah.

Not surprisingly, one third of all Arabs, most of whom are Muslims, are illiterate and half of all Arab women are illiterate, according to the Arab League, and the Muslim world is last in every metric from education to healthcare to scientific research to productivity to industrial development

This is not one of your threads when you cast aspersions, far and wide....but rather a sociological revelation as to factors that will result in a diminution of Muslim populations.

It not only has nothing to do with aspects that you claim for Muslims, in general...but will have no effect on wealthy, well-educated Islamist radicals such as those who flew planes into the Twin Towers.

Islamist radicals? What kind of bullshit are you even talking about? The concept of Islamist radicals is post-9/11 Western politically correctness to make Muslims feel better about themselves. There is only one version of Islam: Islam.

Really?

Zuhdi Jasser, also known as M. Zuhdi Jasser,[2] and Mohamed Zuhdi Jasser, is a medical doctor specializing internal medicine and nuclear cardiology in Phoenix, AZ.[3] Jasser is a former Lieutenant Commander in the United States Navy[4] where he served as staff internist in the Office of the Attending Physician of the United States Congress[5]. In 2003, with a group of American Muslims Jasser founded the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD) based in Phoenix, Arizona.[3]
He is a contributor to national and international media on the issue of political Islam or Islamism and has been a frequent guest on Fox News Channel, CNN, CBS, and MSNBC[6]. He has also contributed articles to The Arizona Republic[7], The Dallas Morning News[8], The New York Post[9], The Wall St. Journal[10] and The Washington Times.[11]
Zuhdi Jasser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"...former Lieutenant Commander in the United States Navy..."

 

[JStone]

This is not one of your threads when you cast aspersions, far and wide....but rather a sociological revelation as to factors that will result in a diminution of Muslim populations.

It not only has nothing to do with aspects that you claim for Muslims, in general...but will have no effect on wealthy, well-educated Islamist radicals such as those who flew planes into the Twin Towers.

Islamist radicals? What kind of bullshit are you even talking about? The concept of Islamist radicals is post-9/11 Western politically correctness to make Muslims feel better about themselves. There is only one version of Islam: Islam.

Really?

Zuhdi Jasser, also known as M. Zuhdi Jasser,[2] and Mohamed Zuhdi Jasser, is a medical doctor specializing internal medicine and nuclear cardiology in Phoenix, AZ.[3] Jasser is a former Lieutenant Commander in the United States Navy[4] where he served as staff internist in the Office of the Attending Physician of the United States Congress[5]. In 2003, with a group of American Muslims Jasser founded the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD) based in Phoenix, Arizona.[3]
He is a contributor to national and international media on the issue of political Islam or Islamism and has been a frequent guest on Fox News Channel, CNN, CBS, and MSNBC[6]. He has also contributed articles to The Arizona Republic[7], The Dallas Morning News[8], The New York Post[9], The Wall St. Journal[10] and The Washington Times.[11]
Zuhdi Jasser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"...former Lieutenant Commander in the United States Navy..."

Maybe, he needs to familiarize himself with shariah law and the quran and the hadeeth, the foundation of islime. Ya think?

Sharia Law: Jihad

Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion.

The caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians... until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax.

The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim.

"The scriptural basis for jihad issuch Koranic verses as...

"Fighting is prescribed for you"...
Quran 2.216...
Jihâd (holy fighting in Allâh's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allâh knows but you do not know.

"Slay them wherever you find them"
Quran 4.89...
They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliyâ' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allâh (to Muhammad SAW). But if they turn back (from Islâm), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliyâ' (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.

"And such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet [Allah bless him and give him peace] said:"

Hadith: "I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah"

"and the hadith reported by Muslim,"
Hadith: "To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.

 

[GHook93]

Hows the North American fertility doing?

By the end of the century, Western Europe’s economically active population will fall by two-fifths, Eastern Europe and East Asia by two-thirds. Russia is facing a demographic death spiral.

In the United States, it will grow by about a quarter.

The United States growth rate is, I believe, 2.1...
...and owes this largely to religion.
Evangelicals have 2.6 children per...

...Hispanics also high.

I am doing my part. I have 3 with a 4th on the way! Although my wife can read, write, isn't very religion and opperates a successful business!

 

[GHook93]

As much as I want to believe this, I don't think it's true. Muslims, esp Arabs, are out reproducing the Europeans in Europe and depending on the country they are 2-10% (20% in Russia) of the population. All you hear about in the middle east is large families.

I think this is wishful think by the author!

 

[PoliticalChic]

As much as I want to believe this, I don't think it's true. Muslims, esp Arabs, are out reproducing the Europeans in Europe and depending on the country they are 2-10% (20% in Russia) of the population. All you hear about in the middle east is large families.

I think this is wishful think by the author!

How about this:
"Hania Zlotnik, director of the population division at the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs, said “In most of the Islamic world it’s amazing, the decline in fertility that has happened,’’ … From 1975 to 1980, women in Iran were giving birth to nearly 7 children per family, according to the latest U.N. population report; from 2005 to 2010 that number is expected to be less than 2."
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/un-sees-big-drop-in-middle-east-fertility-rates/

You might pick up the book...it is well documented...

 

[Katzndogz]

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the western countries that made a point of rejecting Christianity.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Evidently so does religion. A soulless person does not remain so forever.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the western countries that made a point of rejecting Christianity.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Evidently so does religion. A soulless person does not remain so forever.

"In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed."
Six Million African Muslims Convert to Christianity Each Year

"Kurdish church of former Muslims, now Christians."
KURDS LEAVING ISLAM FOR CHRISTIANITY……. |

"Mogensen has carried out the most extensive survey ever of conversions from Islam to Christianity in Denmark. The survey concludes that almost 1,000 Muslims converted between 1980 and 2007."
Danish Muslims Increasingly Converting to Christianity -


6 Million Muslims convert to Christianity - Al-Jazeerah ! - YouTube