The IRS ***denies*** The House Request For DJT's Tax Returns

[bripat9643]

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

Congress has no authority to do that.

Congress clearly has the authority to do that.

Congress has the authority to violate the 4th Amendment? Since when?

 

[bripat9643]

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

As my link points out, yes, they can make such a request. But also as the court ruled, it does not come without limitations.

The court rulings do not apply.

"Trump’s lawyer, Jay Sekulow, appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” pointed out that the Supreme Court has held that congressional oversight cannot become law enforcement. He’s right — but he is advancing a red herring. The IRS alone enforces the tax law, assessing and collecting taxes due from any taxpayer. Neal’s possession of Trump’s tax returns would not change that."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

That's why there's no justification for Congress to obtain Trump's tax returns. It has no law enforcement purpose, and no legitimate legislative purpose. It's a fishing expedition, and anyone who denies it is a lying douchebag.

Says you lying douchebag.

What's the "legitimate legislative purpose?"

 

[Billo_Really]

You mean like Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Strozk, McCabe and Hillary?

No, like Trump encouraging death threats against Omar.

 

[bripat9643]

You mean like Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Strozk, McCabe and Hillary?

No, like Trump encouraging death threats against Omar.

Horseshit. Criticizing her is not automatically the equivalent of encouraging death threats. She is well deserving of criticism.

 

[bripat9643]

What is Nadler going to do when the IRS doesn't hand over Trump's tax returns?

Likely he will go to a federal judge for arbitration.

It will go to the Supreme court, and Nadler will lose.

On what grounds? Precedent and the law are on their side. The refusal is a stalling tactic.

On the grounds that Trump will take it to the Supreme Court. There is no law or precedent on Nadler's side. Steve Mnuchin will refuse to comply until the SC orders him to.

The law is clearely on Nadler's side. Poor wittle boy. Maybe your parents need to send you to school to read.

The Bill of Rights is not on Nadler's side, moron. You clearly don't support the Bill of Rights.

 

[jc456]

Evidence?

Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it false.

But because you don’t, it does!

 

[jc456]

The court rulings do not apply.

"Trump’s lawyer, Jay Sekulow, appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” pointed out that the Supreme Court has held that congressional oversight cannot become law enforcement. He’s right — but he is advancing a red herring. The IRS alone enforces the tax law, assessing and collecting taxes due from any taxpayer. Neal’s possession of Trump’s tax returns would not change that."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

Gee, what a surprise, the LA Times.

Well I say go ahead. I want to see Trump use this abuse of power for his campaign in 2020. It will assist in his reelection and perhaps turning the Congress back to the right people--the Republicans.

It isn't bad enough that this Democrat led Congress got absolutely nothing done since they took over, but their mad witch hunt that's been taking place since before Trump was elected. People are not only sick of it, they're angry about it. Why would you put a party in power who's only mission is to destroy the President of the opposite party?

Well good luck Democrats "trying" to get those returns without a years long fight. Because this so called law was already heard by the courts and ruled un-constitutional; it's just that it's never been challenged before. I also hope that Trump follows through with a lawsuit. Oh, and if Democrats actually do something besides harass this President, good luck getting him to sign any bill they put forward.

It has never been ruled unconstitutional. The fact is that specific ruling does not apply. Congress has the oversight authority to examine Trump's tax returns. Voters I suspect are far more worried about Trump's abuse of powers. Voters will never trust Republicans enough to give them complete control again.

The Congress does not have unrestricted access to those records according to past court rulings. The court ruled that Congress can only obtain those returns IF they can demonstrate how those records are needed for legislative purposes. They cannot confiscate those records because "Well.......the Muller thing didn't work out so well for us" which is all this is.

Furthermore it was ruled that the US Congress is a legislative body, not an investigative body. Therefore they cannot make the claim they are looking for illegal activity.

Democrats Funny: Now they are giving the IRS until 4/23 to "comply" OR ELSE. This is gonna be good.

House panel chairman gives IRS April 23 deadline on Trump taxes - Reuters

They don't know who dey screwin' with!

The reasonable assumption is that there is so much dirt in those returns that they'll just try to keep hiding them 'till doomsday.

So you think he’s got the IRS too? Cuckoo

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You mean like Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Strozk, McCabe and Hillary?

No, like Trump encouraging death threats against Omar.

She shot off her racist mouth and it's Trump's fault she gets death threats?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You don't know anything of the sort. When you get that age and very wealthy (which I'm sure she is) you don't need those problems. You can just sit back and enjoy the last few years of your life without fighting all the time. When you have money, work is just something you do to take up your time.

Wrong. Do your fucking homework on this story before deciding to shoot your fucking mouth off!

I did. That's how I know her age and what was involved. I don't just make comments to make them with no knowledge of what I'm commenting on like some people we know.

 

[rightwinger]

Sounds like contempt of Congress

Looks like criminal charges are in order

 

[jc456]

You mean like Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Strozk, McCabe and Hillary?

No, like Trump encouraging death threats against Omar.

She shot off her racist mouth and it's Trump's fault she gets death threats?

Ray, there’s no objectivity. Can’t argue against that. A rock is more reasonable

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump's disapproval rating has nothing to do with his tax returns. It has to do with the over 90% negative coverage by the MSM. Had Hillary been President with these record unemployment numbers, median income at new highs, corporate and consumer confidence at record highs, and an all time high for small business (our largest employers) confidence, there would have been parades in the street every other month.

What we have here is a guy who's doing a fantastic job but is hated personally. He's the exact opposite of DumBama who was loved personally but hated in policy.

Professional politicians makeup their tax returns for the expectation of running for the office of President. They make sure that there is enough taxes paid, enough donated to charities, and not take all of their deductions. Trump didn't live his life that way. He didn't create tax returns for public viewing, he filed his taxes to keep as much money as legally possible.

So what does Trump's returns have to do with him running this country? Absolutely nothing. The only reason the Democrats want it is to continue the negative rants on him because they have nothing positive to offer the voters of this country.

Just like a typical righty who won't be responsible for the things he does. Trump's low approval rating have everything to do with Trump's actions in office. You think Trump's tweet of Rep. Omar is an MSM hoax?

If Trump's approval rating is based on his actions in office, then we are in real trouble because we have the stupidest people on the planet.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You mean like Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Strozk, McCabe and Hillary?

No, like Trump encouraging death threats against Omar.

She shot off her racist mouth and it's Trump's fault she gets death threats?

Ray, there’s no objectivity. Can’t argue against that. A rock is more reasonable

In one post he says that Trump's approval ratings are about his policies and not his personality. Then he goes on about Trump's tweets and the nasty things he says.

I guess to BillO, now tweets are presidential policy.

 

[jc456]

Trump's disapproval rating has nothing to do with his tax returns. It has to do with the over 90% negative coverage by the MSM. Had Hillary been President with these record unemployment numbers, median income at new highs, corporate and consumer confidence at record highs, and an all time high for small business (our largest employers) confidence, there would have been parades in the street every other month.

What we have here is a guy who's doing a fantastic job but is hated personally. He's the exact opposite of DumBama who was loved personally but hated in policy.

Professional politicians makeup their tax returns for the expectation of running for the office of President. They make sure that there is enough taxes paid, enough donated to charities, and not take all of their deductions. Trump didn't live his life that way. He didn't create tax returns for public viewing, he filed his taxes to keep as much money as legally possible.

So what does Trump's returns have to do with him running this country? Absolutely nothing. The only reason the Democrats want it is to continue the negative rants on him because they have nothing positive to offer the voters of this country.

Just like a typical righty who won't be responsible for the things he does. Trump's low approval rating have everything to do with Trump's actions in office. You think Trump's tweet of Rep. Omar is an MSM hoax?

If Trump's approval rating is based on his actions in office, then we are in real trouble because we have the stupidest people on the planet.

Incoherent! That’s perfect.

That nails most in here against trump

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All decent human beings care about....is that they heard Trump promising to release his taxes numerous times....2 years now and there are no tax returns. LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!

The last President promised us everybody would have affordable healthcare. At least Trump not giving us his tax returns didn't cost the taxpayers over a trillion dollars. Those kind of lies I can look over.

 

[Issa]

All decent human beings care about....is that they heard Trump promising to release his taxes numerous times....2 years now and there are no tax returns. LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!

The last President promised us everybody would have affordable healthcare. At least Trump not giving us his tax returns didn't cost the taxpayers over a trillion dollars. Those kind of lies I can look over.

Primo Obama is not our topic.
Secondo the orange gave is a low life toxic hateful environement.
Third he promised to release them, where are they?
Fourth how much he added to the debt ?

I'm a free man I can say Obama tried to fix health care but failed...you on the other hand make excuses for trump day and night. And God knows that he fucks up, lies, bullies on daily basis.

 

[jc456]

All decent human beings care about....is that they heard Trump promising to release his taxes numerous times....2 years now and there are no tax returns. LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!

The last President promised us everybody would have affordable healthcare. At least Trump not giving us his tax returns didn't cost the taxpayers over a trillion dollars. Those kind of lies I can look over.

Primo Obama is not our topic.
Secondo the orange gave is a low life toxic hateful environement.
Third he promised to release them, where are they?
Fourth how much he added to the debt ?

I'm a free man I can say Obama tried to fix health care but failed...you on the other hand make excuses for trump day and night. And God knows that he fucks up, lies, bullies on daily basis.

Then why did Ferguson happen?

 

[hadit]

The whole statement if you please


(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

What part of "shall furnish" don't you understand, my good man?

What part of ONLY in closed executive meeting don't you understand?

Republicans released tax returns publicly in 2014. What don't you understand?

Were they individual returns?

 

[hadit]

The IRS has no choice but to turn over the tax returns.

U.S. Code Title 26. INTERNAL REVENUE CODE

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(2) Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(3) Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.

It says "shall" not if, and or but. They will have to comply or go to jail.

And the Congress has to keep the info private and can only let those in the Executive meeting see it on penalty of a Felony charge.

"But if that question does get posed — does the Ways and Means Committee have a solid reason to put Trump’s tax returns in the public House record? — it turns out that the Republicans have poisoned their own well.

The only precedent on such a move stems from 2014. Back then, congressional Republicans were on the warpath, insisting that the IRS improperly discriminated against conservative organizations seeking tax-exempt status.

The allegations were overstated and largely trumped up. But what’s important here is that the committee, voting on party lines, released into the public record tax return information of more than 50 organizations, for absolutely no reason beyond their hope to embarrass Democrats. If Trump challenges a public release of his tax information in court, he should fear that Republicans’ 2014 political power move could color the outcome."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

No

Yes it is. You don't have to be a lawyer to understand it, it is so clear. Congress has the power to get Trump's tax returns.

Under certain circumstances, which will be thrashed out in court, so don't expect the jackals to get them for a while.

 

[hadit]

You got a real problem. You care more about the republican party than you do about the United States of America.

Wait a minute. Why do Democrats want his tax returns if not for the Democrat party? They only want these returns so they can say something negative about Trump (whether true or not) just because they've seen them. They want to cast doubt on his reelection.

Piglosi nor others have any legitimate reason for wanting to see those returns outside of party politics. This is why the Democrat party needs to be destroyed. Because these commies are using our federal agencies as their own for political reasons. They are no better than the Nazi's.

Whenever a president hides anything about his qualifications for office it creates doubt. I suppose democrats were surprised when Trump failed to follow tradition of releasing tax forms. However, they should not have been because Donald Trump has always cloaked the Trump Organization in a veil of secrecy. There are no annual reports for the Trump Organization, only financial disclosure documents as required by law. Since it's a privately held corporation, very little has to be disclosed. Information releases from the organization were basic sales related. Thus Trump has been able to control his public image and that of his business.

Once Donald Trump stepped into the political arena, that all changed. His life became an open book. The public and media assumed that any hidden parts of that book contained wrong doings and thus it became a target of every investigative reporter and every political opponent. Had Trump released his tax returns and been more open about his past, he would have been a more effective president and would not be going into the election with a horrible job approval rating among both democrats and independents. However, we all know that is not possible because it's not his nature. He thrives on controversy not harmony, division not unity, and hatred not peace.

Personally, I think Trump is simply using his tax return documents as bait. He knows that Democrats have a history of weaponizing the IRS and is hoping that some Democrat operative will leak them.

It wouldn't surprise me if he did.