The IRS ***denies*** The House Request For DJT's Tax Returns

[bripat9643]

There is no law or precedent on Nadler's side

False. The law very clearly states that Congress can obtain anyone's tax returns.

Of course he will refuse , as his loyalty is to the president,not to the country or to the law.

Only for a clear legislative purpose. Rifling through Trumps tax returns for political dirt doesn't meet the requirement.

 

[bripat9643]

The Fourth Amendment says otherwise,

False.

and the SC has ruled that tax returns are private documents

Irrelevant.

Again, the law clearly states that congress can obtain anyone's tax returns.

Wrong and wrong.

 

[hadit]

The Fourth Amendment says otherwise,

False.

and the SC has ruled that tax returns are private documents

Irrelevant.

Again, the law clearly states that congress can obtain anyone's tax returns.

And that's what the court will decide, whether Congress' demanding a citizen's private tax return for a blatant search for dirt outweighs his constitutional rights. The courts have already held that Congress' power in this area is not absolute.

So yes, it will probably be resolved some time during Trump's second term.

 

[jc456]

Keep reading you fucking MORON. It has been cited here as well it clearly says what I said it says and your refusal to admit it only proves you are a partisan hack bent on revenge.

What, are you too pussy to review my evidence?

Evidence?

 

[jc456]

Wait a minute. Why do Democrats want his tax returns if not for the Democrat party? They only want these returns so they can say something negative about Trump (whether true or not) just because they've seen them. They want to cast doubt on his reelection.

Piglosi nor others have any legitimate reason for wanting to see those returns outside of party politics. This is why the Democrat party needs to be destroyed. Because these commies are using our federal agencies as their own for political reasons. They are no better than the Nazi's.

Trump has been tried twice for tax fraud. Filed for bankruptcy 6 times. Has a sister that retired as a judge to avoid prosecution for tax fraud. Is doing something no other President in history has done. And you think they don't have good reason to ask?

Let me put it to you this way, they don't have to have a reason.

 

[jc456]

What part of ONLY in closed executive meeting don't you understand?

So Nadler closes the doors, what happens then?

He goes to sleep?

 

[jc456]

Trump was never tried for tax fraud. He was accused of it by the commie NYT.

Bankruptcy is perfectly legal and used every day. Trump never filed personal bankruptcy, and the four of his business bankruptcies were mostly filed during challenging economic times. Trump owned or operated over 500 businesses in his career, and doing the math, that's one bankruptcy for more than every hundred of businesses he ran. Nothing suspicious about that.

As for his sister, the case has been dropped. She's 82 years old for crying out loud. Who needs that kind of shit at that age?

If she didn't retire, she would be going to prison for tax fraud.

You don't know anything of the sort. When you get that age and very wealthy (which I'm sure she is) you don't need those problems. You can just sit back and enjoy the last few years of your life without fighting all the time. When you have money, work is just something you do to take up your time.

Neat! But she clearly retired in order to stop the investigation.

Why did that stop an investigation? Either she did or didn’t

 

[busybee01]

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

As my link points out, yes, they can make such a request. But also as the court ruled, it does not come without limitations.

The court rulings do not apply.

"Trump’s lawyer, Jay Sekulow, appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” pointed out that the Supreme Court has held that congressional oversight cannot become law enforcement. He’s right — but he is advancing a red herring. The IRS alone enforces the tax law, assessing and collecting taxes due from any taxpayer. Neal’s possession of Trump’s tax returns would not change that."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

That's why there's no justification for Congress to obtain Trump's tax returns. It has no law enforcement purpose, and no legitimate legislative purpose. It's a fishing expedition, and anyone who denies it is a lying douchebag.

The IRS has no choice but to turn over the tax returns.

U.S. Code Title 26. INTERNAL REVENUE CODE

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(2) Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(3) Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.

It says "shall" not if, and or but. They will have to comply or go to jail.

And the Congress has to keep the info private and can only let those in the Executive meeting see it on penalty of a Felony charge.

"But if that question does get posed — does the Ways and Means Committee have a solid reason to put Trump’s tax returns in the public House record? — it turns out that the Republicans have poisoned their own well.

The only precedent on such a move stems from 2014. Back then, congressional Republicans were on the warpath, insisting that the IRS improperly discriminated against conservative organizations seeking tax-exempt status.

The allegations were overstated and largely trumped up. But what’s important here is that the committee, voting on party lines, released into the public record tax return information of more than 50 organizations, for absolutely no reason beyond their hope to embarrass Democrats. If Trump challenges a public release of his tax information in court, he should fear that Republicans’ 2014 political power move could color the outcome."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

Republicans did not release anyone's tax returns.

"In 2014, after getting the documents on the groups they requested, plus tax info relating to several dozen other organizations, Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee made it all public. They believed it showed that an IRS official named Lois Lerner had unfairly plotted to deny tax-exempt status to Crossroads GPS and other conservative groups. The committee included the documents as an attachment to a letter asking the Justice Department to prosecute Lerner. During a closed-door hearing, the committee’s Republicans voted to make the letter public."

They Say It’s Bad Now But Republicans Disclosed Private Tax Returns In 2014 | HuffPost

 

[busybee01]

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

As my link points out, yes, they can make such a request. But also as the court ruled, it does not come without limitations.

The court rulings do not apply.

"Trump’s lawyer, Jay Sekulow, appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” pointed out that the Supreme Court has held that congressional oversight cannot become law enforcement. He’s right — but he is advancing a red herring. The IRS alone enforces the tax law, assessing and collecting taxes due from any taxpayer. Neal’s possession of Trump’s tax returns would not change that."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

That's why there's no justification for Congress to obtain Trump's tax returns. It has no law enforcement purpose, and no legitimate legislative purpose. It's a fishing expedition, and anyone who denies it is a lying douchebag.

Says you lying douchebag.

 

[busybee01]

Neal Statement on Requesting President Trump’s Tax Returns
“It is critical to ensure the accountability of our government and elected officials. To maintain trust in our democracy, the American people must be assured that their government is operating properly, as laws intend.

“Congress, as a co-equal branch of government, has a duty to conduct oversight of departments and officials. The Ways and Means Committee in particular has a responsibility to conduct oversight of our voluntary Federal tax system and determine how Americans – including those elected to our highest office – are complying with those laws. It is also our duty to evaluate the operation of the Internal Revenue Service in its administration and enforcement of the tax laws.

“The IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice-presidents, yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately. In order to fairly make that determination, we must obtain President Trump’s tax returns and review whether the IRS is carrying out its responsibilities. The Committee has a duty to examine whether Congressional action may be needed to require such audits, and to oversee that they are conducted properly.

“I today submitted to IRS Commissioner Rettig my request for six years of the president’s personal tax returns as well as the returns for some of his business entities. We have completed the necessary groundwork for a request of this magnitude and I am certain we are within our legitimate legislative, legal, and oversight rights.

“I take the authority to make this request very seriously, and I approach it with the utmost care and respect. This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration. My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship. I trust that in this spirit, the IRS will comply with Federal law and furnish me with the requested documents in a timely manner.”

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

Congress has no authority to do that.

Congress clearly has the authority to do that.

 

[busybee01]

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

As my link points out, yes, they can make such a request. But also as the court ruled, it does not come without limitations.

The court rulings do not apply.

"Trump’s lawyer, Jay Sekulow, appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” pointed out that the Supreme Court has held that congressional oversight cannot become law enforcement. He’s right — but he is advancing a red herring. The IRS alone enforces the tax law, assessing and collecting taxes due from any taxpayer. Neal’s possession of Trump’s tax returns would not change that."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

Gee, what a surprise, the LA Times.

Well I say go ahead. I want to see Trump use this abuse of power for his campaign in 2020. It will assist in his reelection and perhaps turning the Congress back to the right people--the Republicans.

It isn't bad enough that this Democrat led Congress got absolutely nothing done since they took over, but their mad witch hunt that's been taking place since before Trump was elected. People are not only sick of it, they're angry about it. Why would you put a party in power who's only mission is to destroy the President of the opposite party?

Well good luck Democrats "trying" to get those returns without a years long fight. Because this so called law was already heard by the courts and ruled un-constitutional; it's just that it's never been challenged before. I also hope that Trump follows through with a lawsuit. Oh, and if Democrats actually do something besides harass this President, good luck getting him to sign any bill they put forward.

It has never been ruled unconstitutional. The fact is that specific ruling does not apply. Congress has the oversight authority to examine Trump's tax returns. Voters I suspect are far more worried about Trump's abuse of powers. Voters will never trust Republicans enough to give them complete control again.

 

[busybee01]

The IRS has no choice but to turn over the tax returns.

U.S. Code Title 26. INTERNAL REVENUE CODE

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(2) Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(3) Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.

It says "shall" not if, and or but. They will have to comply or go to jail.

And the Congress has to keep the info private and can only let those in the Executive meeting see it on penalty of a Felony charge.

"But if that question does get posed — does the Ways and Means Committee have a solid reason to put Trump’s tax returns in the public House record? — it turns out that the Republicans have poisoned their own well.

The only precedent on such a move stems from 2014. Back then, congressional Republicans were on the warpath, insisting that the IRS improperly discriminated against conservative organizations seeking tax-exempt status.

The allegations were overstated and largely trumped up. But what’s important here is that the committee, voting on party lines, released into the public record tax return information of more than 50 organizations, for absolutely no reason beyond their hope to embarrass Democrats. If Trump challenges a public release of his tax information in court, he should fear that Republicans’ 2014 political power move could color the outcome."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

No

Yes it is. You don't have to be a lawyer to understand it, it is so clear. Congress has the power to get Trump's tax returns.

 

[busybee01]

The whole statement if you please


(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

What part of "shall furnish" don't you understand, my good man?

What part of ONLY in closed executive meeting don't you understand?

Republicans released tax returns publicly in 2014. What don't you understand?

 

[Slyhunter]

Release Pelosi's tax returns.

 

[busybee01]

You got a real problem. You care more about the republican party than you do about the United States of America.

Wait a minute. Why do Democrats want his tax returns if not for the Democrat party? They only want these returns so they can say something negative about Trump (whether true or not) just because they've seen them. They want to cast doubt on his reelection.

Piglosi nor others have any legitimate reason for wanting to see those returns outside of party politics. This is why the Democrat party needs to be destroyed. Because these commies are using our federal agencies as their own for political reasons. They are no better than the Nazi's.

In other words, party over country?

You have proven numerous times that you are more concerned about Trump than the country. You have no room to talk.

 

[busybee01]

The IRS has been given until April 23rd to hand over Trump's tax returns.

What is Nadler going to do when the IRS doesn't hand over Trump's tax returns?

Likely he will go to a federal judge for arbitration.

It will go to the Supreme court, and Nadler will lose.

Then the Supreme Court will not be following the law.

 

[busybee01]

The IRS has been given until April 23rd to hand over Trump's tax returns.

What is Nadler going to do when the IRS doesn't hand over Trump's tax returns?

Likely he will go to a federal judge for arbitration.

It will go to the Supreme court, and Nadler will lose.

On what grounds? Precedent and the law are on their side. The refusal is a stalling tactic.

On the grounds that Trump will take it to the Supreme Court. There is no law or precedent on Nadler's side. Steve Mnuchin will refuse to comply until the SC orders him to.

The law is clearely on Nadler's side. Poor wittle boy. Maybe your parents need to send you to school to read.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The whole statement if you please


(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

What part of "shall furnish" don't you understand, my good man?

What part of ONLY in closed executive meeting don't you understand?

Republicans released tax returns publicly in 2014. What don't you understand?

And they got permission to do it dumb ass. The law is clear with out permission it is a Felony.

 

[Muhammed]

You got a real problem. You care more about the republican party than you do about the United States of America.

Wait a minute. Why do Democrats want his tax returns if not for the Democrat party? They only want these returns so they can say something negative about Trump (whether true or not) just because they've seen them. They want to cast doubt on his reelection.

Piglosi nor others have any legitimate reason for wanting to see those returns outside of party politics. This is why the Democrat party needs to be destroyed. Because these commies are using our federal agencies as their own for political reasons. They are no better than the Nazi's.

Whenever a president hides anything about his qualifications for office it creates doubt. I suppose democrats were surprised when Trump failed to follow tradition of releasing tax forms. However, they should not have been because Donald Trump has always cloaked the Trump Organization in a veil of secrecy. There are no annual reports for the Trump Organization, only financial disclosure documents as required by law. Since it's a privately held corporation, very little has to be disclosed. Information releases from the organization were basic sales related. Thus Trump has been able to control his public image and that of his business.

Once Donald Trump stepped into the political arena, that all changed. His life became an open book. The public and media assumed that any hidden parts of that book contained wrong doings and thus it became a target of every investigative reporter and every political opponent. Had Trump released his tax returns and been more open about his past, he would have been a more effective president and would not be going into the election with a horrible job approval rating among both democrats and independents. However, we all know that is not possible because it's not his nature. He thrives on controversy not harmony, division not unity, and hatred not peace.

Personally, I think Trump is simply using his tax return documents as bait. He knows that Democrats have a history of weaponizing the IRS and is hoping that some Democrat operative will leak them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You got a real problem. You care more about the republican party than you do about the United States of America.

Wait a minute. Why do Democrats want his tax returns if not for the Democrat party? They only want these returns so they can say something negative about Trump (whether true or not) just because they've seen them. They want to cast doubt on his reelection.

Piglosi nor others have any legitimate reason for wanting to see those returns outside of party politics. This is why the Democrat party needs to be destroyed. Because these commies are using our federal agencies as their own for political reasons. They are no better than the Nazi's.

Whenever a president hides anything about his qualifications for office it creates doubt. I suppose democrats were surprised when Trump failed to follow tradition of releasing tax forms. However, they should not have been because Donald Trump has always cloaked the Trump Organization in a veil of secrecy. There are no annual reports for the Trump Organization, only financial disclosure documents as required by law. Since it's a privately held corporation, very little has to be disclosed. Information releases from the organization were basic sales related. Thus Trump has been able to control his public image and that of his business.

Once Donald Trump stepped into the political arena, that all changed. His life became an open book. The public and media assumed that any hidden parts of that book contained wrong doings and thus it became a target of every investigative reporter and every political opponent. Had Trump released his tax returns and been more open about his past, he would have been a more effective president and would not be going into the election with a horrible job approval rating among both democrats and independents. However, we all know that is not possible because it's not his nature. He thrives on controversy not harmony, division not unity, and hatred not peace.

Personally, I think Trump is simply using his tax return documents as bait. He knows that Democrats have a history of weaponizing the IRS and is hoping that some Democrat operative will leak them.

Maybe what Trump is doing is keeping them private to drive the Democrats into desperation. He'll probably wait until just before election and release them after the Democrats make fools of themselves.