The Israeli "Settlement" Myth And How Sinister It Is

[Phoenall]

Cite the laws.

Here you go...

International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)

The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:

• The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
• Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period.
• The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation.
• The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
• To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.
• The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces.
• Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.
• Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.
• Collective punishment is prohibited.
• The taking of hostages is prohibited.
• Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited.
• The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.
• The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.
• Cultural property must be respected.

I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.

That's why it's not "occupation". as you stated.

The land was actually lost by Jordan and Egypt.

There never was an independent muslim palestinian state in those areas - ever.

There were however two former Jewish states in that area.

I'll get to the other nonsense you posted later.

Zionist settlers, were built for ideological reasons, not security. Thus, the settlement enterprise can be seen to be a grave violation of international occupation law as it violates the very fundamental core of that law: there is no legitimacy to annexation through conquest.

The land the settlements are on happens to owned by the Jews and was stolen in 1949 by the arab muslims, this was annexed through the arab muslim conquest of the land. Also the arab muslims have signed a treaty allowing the Jews to have full control over that land and to build settlements there.

 

[eots]

Cite the laws.

Here you go...

International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)

The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:

• The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
• Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period.
• The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation.
• The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
• To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.
• The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces.
• Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.
• Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.
• Collective punishment is prohibited.
• The taking of hostages is prohibited.
• Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited.
• The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.
• The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.
• Cultural property must be respected.

I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.

That's why it's not "occupation". as you stated.

The land was actually lost by Jordan and Egypt.

There never was an independent muslim palestinian state in those areas - ever.

There were however two former Jewish states in that area.

I'll get to the other nonsense you posted later.

Zionist settlers, were built for ideological reasons, not security. Thus, the settlement enterprise can be seen to be a grave violation of international occupation law as it violates the very fundamental core of that law: there is no legitimacy to annexation through conquest.

The land the settlements are on happens to owned by the Jews and was stolen in 1949 by the arab muslims, this was annexed through the arab muslim conquest of the land. Also the arab muslims have signed a treaty allowing the Jews to have full control over that land and to build settlements there.

LINK..

 

[Coyote]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.

Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.

Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation. Recently, Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.

In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:

But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.


En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.


The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.


"I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."
​

So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?

If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?

Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity. How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?

Is it "anti-semitism"? Ethnic cleansing? Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?

Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap. There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.

It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.

As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.

The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in. Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?

Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.

Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.

You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.

When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.

That's irrelevent. The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?

They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.

Now you are being silly.

 

[Coyote]

Cite the laws.

Here you go...

International humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47)

The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:

• The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
• Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period.
• The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation.
• The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
• To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.
• The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces.
• Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.
• Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.
• Collective punishment is prohibited.
• The taking of hostages is prohibited.
• Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited.
• The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.
• The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.
• Cultural property must be respected.

I bolded the ones Israel breaks the most.

What territory has Israel claimed sovereignty over ?

What population have they forcibly transfered into or out of the territory

What civilian population have they transferred into occupied territory that is not Israeli owned

What collective punishment other than those proscribed in the Genva conventions have been carried out

What private property has been confiscated

No islamonazi sources either as they are biased

Can we also say no "zionazi sources" too since they are biased?

 

[Phoenall]

Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories – UN report
30 September 2003 –
Israel is using excessive force in the occupied Palestinian territory (OPT), violating human rights in the name of counter-terrorism, and its building of a “separation wall” and expansion of settlements bear the hallmarks of annexation and illegal “conquest,” according to a United Nations human rights report released today.
United Nations News Centre - Israel uses excessive force and annexation in Palestinian territories UN report

This report comes from a proven rabid JEW HATING ANTI SEMITE and is dismissed by all decent people as being biased.

There has never been any mention of the separation barrier that Saudi built 20 miles inside Yemen's borders at the same time. Stealing the most fertile land for the Saudis.

 

[Coyote]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.

Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?

Can you provide a link to this "charter"?

 

[Phoenall]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.

Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.

Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation. Recently, Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.

In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:

But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.


En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.


The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.


"I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."
​

So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?

If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?

Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity. How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?

Is it "anti-semitism"? Ethnic cleansing? Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?

Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap. There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.

It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.

As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.

The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in. Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?

Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.

Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.

You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.

When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.

That's irrelevent. The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?

They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.

Now you are being silly.

As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid

Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.

Am I or is it a fact posted often by some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all. They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.

 

[Coyote]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.

Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.

Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation. Recently, Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.

In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:

But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.


En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.


The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.


"I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."
​

So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?

If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?

Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity. How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?

Is it "anti-semitism"? Ethnic cleansing? Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?

Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap. There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.

It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.

As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.

The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in. Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?

Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.

Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.

You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.

When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.

That's irrelevent. The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?

They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.

Now you are being silly.

As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid

Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.

Am I or is it a fact posted often by some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all. They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.

And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.

So what?

The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians. The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.

 

[Phoenall]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.

Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?

Can you provide a link to this "charter"?

Like these do you mean

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas

The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988

Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011

 

[Phoenall]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.

Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.

Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation. Recently, Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.

In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:

But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.


En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.


The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.


"I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."
​

So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?

If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?

Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity. How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?

Is it "anti-semitism"? Ethnic cleansing? Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?

Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap. There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.

It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.

As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.

The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in. Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?

Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.

Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.

You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.

When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.

That's irrelevent. The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?

They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.

Now you are being silly.

As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid

Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.

Am I or is it a fact posted often by some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all. They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.

And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.

So what?

The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians. The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.

Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.

Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.

 

[Humanity]

Israel to go back to borders that have never existed

Why have they never existed?

As far as I can see there are no borders... Israel never declared borders when it became a state did it? Why?

 

[Coyote]

I disagree (no surprise, right?) - and here's why.

Most of this "ethnic cleansing claim" revolves around Jeruselum's settlement practices and the objections, sometimes violent - towards Jews moving into that area.

Jeruselum has long had it's "Muslim Quarter" and current political settlement strategies have focused on erradicating it through a deliberate policy of purchasing property (often under deceptive alias') and then developing them for Jewish-only occupation. Recently, Netanyahu admitted, during his campaign, that this was a deliberate policy to prevent Bethlehem moving towards Jeruselum.

In addition, many Palestinians claim they are tricked into selling:

But Palestinians often say they were fooled into selling to Jews.


En-Natsheh's brother, Adel El-Khayat, lives in Ramallah now. It's a major Palestinian city nearby, but across a barrier and checkpoint from Jerusalem in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.


The brother insists he sold to a Palestinian middleman, who had told him the apartments would be used by Muslims visiting the Al-Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem's holiest Islamic site sits on the same hilltop as the Temple Mount revered by Jews.


"I didn't need the money," he said. "I wanted to offer my houses to the service of Al-Aqsa mosque."
​

So - is it "ethnic cleansing" or is the housing market in Jeruselum simply one more unspoken front in the conflict designed to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state?

If it's "ethnic cleansing" then how do you label the actions of those developers who are building Jewish-only developments?

Israel also has policies that allow for segregated communities where "undesirables" can be kept out (undesirables being very open ended) and which allows communities to maintain a Jewish-only identity. How many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are allowed to live in the constantly expanding settlements?

Is it "anti-semitism"? Ethnic cleansing? Anger at the erosion of a Palestinian state?

Comparisons to "Nazi" are dishonest and cheap. There is nothing even remotely Nazi-like in the actions on either side and using that labeling does nothing more than add fuel to the fire of a conflict where both sides have little liking or trust in the motivations of the other.

It's not surprising that we see cries of "anti-semitism" as opposed to a more rational look at the events playing out because that is a good distractor.

As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.

The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in. Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?

Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.

Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.

You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.

When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.

That's irrelevent. The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?

They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.

Now you are being silly.

As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid

Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.

Am I or is it a fact posted often by some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all. They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.

And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.

So what?

The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians. The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.

Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.

They aren't illegal immigrants. Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.

Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.

The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps. Nothing wrong with that. Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.

 

[Coyote]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.

Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?

Can you provide a link to this "charter"?

Like these do you mean

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas

The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988

Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011

Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel. Where the do the last to links specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism.

 

[Phoenall]

Israel to go back to borders that have never existed

Why have they never existed?

As far as I can see there are no borders... Israel never declared borders when it became a state did it? Why?

Because they did not need to as the whole of Palestine was theirs by International law. The arab muslims are illegal immigrants on Israeli land until they accept the Mandate for Palestine and live in peace with the Jews.

 

[Phoenall]

As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.

The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in. Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?

Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.

Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.

You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.

When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.

That's irrelevent. The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?

They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.

Now you are being silly.

As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid

Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.

Am I or is it a fact posted often by some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all. They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.

And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.

So what?

The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians. The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.

Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.

They aren't illegal immigrants. Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.

Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.

The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps. Nothing wrong with that. Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.

1922 treaty granted the land of Palestine to the Jews by its legal owners. The arab muslims were invited to stay in peace or go as enemies by the LoN. So they are illegal immigrants

What treaty forced borders on Israel that they did not want, and were are the armed garrisons along those borders to stop the Israelis from reclaiming the land that is theirs by International law.

 

[Phoenall]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.

Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?

Can you provide a link to this "charter"?

Like these do you mean

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas

The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988

Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011

Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel. Where the do the last to links specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism.

How about the changes that were never ratified under the PLO rules of two thirds majority of full council to pass them



Although the PNC met in Gaza on 24 April 1996, it did not revoke or change the covenant, but only issued a statement saying that it had become aged, and that an undefined part of it would be rewritten at an undetermined date in the future. While the English language press release stated that the PLO Covenant was "hereby amended", the Arabic version of Yassir Arafat's letter on this declaration stated:

It has been decided upon: 1. Changing the Palestine National Charter by canceling the articles that are contrary to the letters exchanged between the PLO and the Government of Israel, on 9 and 10 September 1993. 2. The PNC will appoint a legal committee with the task of redrafting the National Charter. The Charter will be presented to the first meeting of the Central Council.

Formally, the resolution adopted by the council consisted of two simple clauses. The first declared that the council "decides to amend the Palestinian National Covenant by canceling clauses which contradict the letters exchanged between the P.L.O. and the Israeli Government." The second ordered a new charter to be drafted within six months

The decision fails to meet the obligations laid out in the Oslo accords in two respects. First, the actual amendment of the Covenant has been left for a future date. As of now, the old Covenant, in its original form, remains the governing document of the PLO, and will continue in this status until the amendments are actually approved... There is a sharp difference between calling for something to change and actually implementing the changes. Second, the decision does not specify which clauses will be amended.

 

[CMike]

Once again Jews don't live in settlements they live in housing, either houses or apartments.

I condemn the ethnic cleansing and the Nazi like idea from the international community, including the US, that Jews have limitations of what areas they can live in simply because they are Jews.

 

[CMike]

To me this sounds like ethnic cleansing.

There are muslim arabs in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, and every major city in Israel.

Yet, the anti-Israel people demand that Jews not live in certain areas of Israel simply because they are Jews. It doesn't matter even if arab muslims sell housing to Jews, they are still not supposed to live there.

Even if you assume Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) isn't in the State of Israel, Jews can still live anywhere they wish.

Also, the Jews live in housing not settlements.

To me it sounds very Nazi like to demand that Jews not live anywhere simply because they are Jews.

This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.

Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?

Can you provide a link to this "charter"?

Like these do you mean

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas

The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988

Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011

Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel. Where the do the last to links specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism.

You can't exclude Hamas.

Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.

I don't understand your question.

Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.

 

[CMike]

As the link I post very often shows right up until 1948 the majority land owners in Jerusalem were Jews. Then the arab muslims invaded and forcibly evicted them from their homes. Now that Israel has reclaimed their holy city the Jews are moving back to their property and rebuilding.

The Muslim Quarter had a mixed population of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Looking at this - it seems like the relative majorities in population demographics were constantly shifting: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Hard to assess how many were land owners or not and I'm not sure that is a point worth making since Netanyahu finally admitted that this was a deliberate government policy of moving Arabs out and Jews in. Given that - what ethnic cleansing is going on in Jeruselum now?

Actually, it's a bit more complex because even non-Arab Jerusalem natives are struggling to stay due to the very high cost of housing and to live there so the city demographics are favoring a wealthy elite over the traditional mix.

Look no further than the charters of the PLO, hamas and fatah for Jew free zones, apartheid and dhimmi laws.

You're trying to switch focus here by throwing out the very terms you object to when they are applied to Israel.

When did the arab muslims get this Palestine state as they have not fulfilled the requirements to be accepted as one. read their declaration of independence and see what they promised to do, and then promptly refused to carry it out.

That's irrelevent. The point is - will there be room for a state for them when you "deem" them ready? And who is doing "ethnic cleansing" in the meantime?

They are proven consummate liars and extremists that will not settle until the UN gives in and abolishes Israel and allows the arab muslims to kill the Jews.

Now you are being silly.

As I said read the charters and see who is being apartheid

Not me that sets the criteria but the UN, its charter and resolutions. They have stated that the arab muslims have to talk peace and mutual borders before they will be accepted as a full member of the UN.

Am I or is it a fact posted often by some of the more virulent team Palestine posters that the P.A. want the UN, US and EU to evict the Jews from Palestine so they can have it all. They have demanded the UN take action to force Israel to go back to borders that have never existed, they have demanded that the US have their power of veto removed and stop giving Israel aid. They have demanded that existing laws be scrapped and rewritten in favour of the Palestinian cause. They have lied on oath about what the Jews have done and have forced media to stop reporting bad things about hamas.

And some of the more virulent Team Israel posters want the Palestinians evicted and sent to other countries so Israel can have it all.

So what?

The UN is not going to do that with either the Israeli's or the Palestinians. The argument is what to do with the Occupied Territories and all the rest is just chicken little.

Not quite they want the recent illegal immigrants removed and deported back to where they belong.

They aren't illegal immigrants. Demographics show a multiple ethnic and religious groups inhabiting Jerusalem.

Obama has just made a speech along those lines because he knows that the Jews would be wiped out in 6 months if they were forced to return to the 1949 armistice lines. Don't be fooled by the 67 borders as this is what is really meant. If the UN was decent it would have removed the P.A. from the lists and told them that while they engage in terrorist attacks they will get no more support from the UN or its member states. Watch them start running to the peace table if this ever happens, and the UN grows a pair.

The 67 borders are a starting point for land swaps. Nothing wrong with that. Except...Netanyahu and his electorate have shown they don't want any Palestinian state while public opinion polls amongst Palestinians show a majority still support a two state solution.

The 2015 borders are the starting point.

 

[aris2chat]

This issue has nothing to do with Judaism.

Are you sure, as the arab muslim charters say it is, they specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism. Do yopu know of any 165 year old Jews ?

Can you provide a link to this "charter"?

Like these do you mean

Palestine Center - The Charter of the Hamas

The Avalon Project Hamas Covenant 1988

Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Palestinian National Covenant - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A HRC 16 NGO 134 of 8 March 2011

Lets exclude Hamas, since they refuse to recognize Israel. Where the do the last to links specifically say that the Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine ( includes Israel by the way ) unless they are residents of Palestine from before the inception of Zionism.

You can't exclude Hamas.

Hamas is the Gaza government, and they make up half the government in the West Bank.

I don't understand your question.

Also the Palestinian Authority is the same thing as Hamas except that the leader where's a tie and is more discreet about wanting to destroy all of Israel.

PA still regards hamas as a terrorist group. Now they ahve called on the arab world to attack hamas.