The Joys Of Socialism

[georgephillip]

Where the government guarantees food to its workers

people lining up for bread rations in Caracas Venezuela (aka; socialist paradise)

The Joys of Socialism? Venezuelan Shoppers Queue For Six Hours at Local Markets | The Gateway Pundit

This is NOT a manifestation, but a queue to buy food Venezuela. The result of 15 years of Socialist rule. (RGF3 Esq.)

It now takes Venezuelans up to six hours of standing in line to purchase food staples at the local market.

The people even have to queue for gas

Venezuela: massive proven petrochemical reserves, yet people forced to queue to fill gas bottles.

A glimpse into our future?

No doubt about it. You keep letting socialists (aka; democrats) run things and I can PROMISE you, you'll know the Joys of Socialism first hand.

It's right there in front of you. All you gotta do is open your eyes

Open your eyes to how much better life is today in Venezuela for the majority of its citizens, unlike the economic stagnation taking place in the US

"For more than a decade people opposed to the government of Venezuela – which today includes almost all major Western media outlets – have argued that the Venezuelan economy would implode.

"Like communists in the 1930s rooting for the final crisis of capitalism, they generally saw Venezuela’s economic collapse as just around the corner.

"How frustrating it has been for them to witness only two recessions: one directly caused by the opposition’s oil strike (December 2002-May 2003) and one brought on by the world recession (2009 and the first half of 2010).

"Despite these recessions, the whole decade’s economic performance – the government got control of the national oil company in 2003 – turned out quite well, with average annual growth of real income per person of 2.7 percent, poverty reduced by more than half, and large gains for the majority in employment, access to health care, pensions, and education."

Long-Awaited Apocalypse Not Likely in Venezuela | Op-Eds & Columns

 

[RDD_1210]

Singapore.

Ok, why? What criteria did you choose?

The limited amount of government control.

Have you ever been to Singapore? It's beautiful, and the people are wealthy.

And they have universal healthcare and stricter gun laws than in the U.S.

Sounds pretty good.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Where the government guarantees food to its workers

people lining up for bread rations in Caracas Venezuela (aka; socialist paradise)

The Joys of Socialism? Venezuelan Shoppers Queue For Six Hours at Local Markets | The Gateway Pundit

This is NOT a manifestation, but a queue to buy food Venezuela. The result of 15 years of Socialist rule. (RGF3 Esq.)

It now takes Venezuelans up to six hours of standing in line to purchase food staples at the local market.

The people even have to queue for gas

Venezuela: massive proven petrochemical reserves, yet people forced to queue to fill gas bottles.

A glimpse into our future?

No doubt about it. You keep letting socialists (aka; democrats) run things and I can PROMISE you, you'll know the Joys of Socialism first hand.

It's right there in front of you. All you gotta do is open your eyes

Venezuela has messed things up massively. Is it Socialism that messed it up, or just the people who tried to implement socialism?

I'm not a socialist, I don't see it working myself, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work.

 

[bripat9643]

Where the government guarantees food to its workers

people lining up for bread rations in Caracas Venezuela (aka; socialist paradise)

The Joys of Socialism? Venezuelan Shoppers Queue For Six Hours at Local Markets | The Gateway Pundit

This is NOT a manifestation, but a queue to buy food Venezuela. The result of 15 years of Socialist rule. (RGF3 Esq.)

It now takes Venezuelans up to six hours of standing in line to purchase food staples at the local market.

The people even have to queue for gas

Venezuela: massive proven petrochemical reserves, yet people forced to queue to fill gas bottles.

A glimpse into our future?

No doubt about it. You keep letting socialists (aka; democrats) run things and I can PROMISE you, you'll know the Joys of Socialism first hand.

It's right there in front of you. All you gotta do is open your eyes

Open your eyes to how much better life is today in Venezuela for the majority of its citizens, unlike the economic stagnation taking place in the US

"For more than a decade people opposed to the government of Venezuela – which today includes almost all major Western media outlets – have argued that the Venezuelan economy would implode.

"Like communists in the 1930s rooting for the final crisis of capitalism, they generally saw Venezuela’s economic collapse as just around the corner.

"How frustrating it has been for them to witness only two recessions: one directly caused by the opposition’s oil strike (December 2002-May 2003) and one brought on by the world recession (2009 and the first half of 2010).

"Despite these recessions, the whole decade’s economic performance – the government got control of the national oil company in 2003 – turned out quite well, with average annual growth of real income per person of 2.7 percent, poverty reduced by more than half, and large gains for the majority in employment, access to health care, pensions, and education."

Long-Awaited Apocalypse Not Likely in Venezuela | Op-Eds & Columns

What growth? Only the worst kind of sucker would believe data published by the Venezuelan government. How can they be having economic growth when they don't even have food on the shelves?

The Cuban government makes all the same claims, but almost anyone who lives there would jump at the chance to emigrate to the evil capitalist USA.

The eternal gullibility of socialists is something to marvel at.

 

[bripat9643]

Where the government guarantees food to its workers

people lining up for bread rations in Caracas Venezuela (aka; socialist paradise)

The Joys of Socialism? Venezuelan Shoppers Queue For Six Hours at Local Markets | The Gateway Pundit

This is NOT a manifestation, but a queue to buy food Venezuela. The result of 15 years of Socialist rule. (RGF3 Esq.)

It now takes Venezuelans up to six hours of standing in line to purchase food staples at the local market.

The people even have to queue for gas

Venezuela: massive proven petrochemical reserves, yet people forced to queue to fill gas bottles.

A glimpse into our future?

No doubt about it. You keep letting socialists (aka; democrats) run things and I can PROMISE you, you'll know the Joys of Socialism first hand.

It's right there in front of you. All you gotta do is open your eyes

Venezuela has messed things up massively. Is it Socialism that messed it up, or just the people who tried to implement socialism?

I'm not a socialist, I don't see it working myself, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work.

Economists have demonstrated that it can't work. It's a logical impossibility.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Why show a foreign country?
Right here in America.......

 

[RDD_1210]

Why show a foreign country?
Right here in America.......

Good point! And this is a capitalist country. Guess it goes both ways, huh?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why show a foreign country?
Right here in America.......

were those lines for the 400,000 million dollar Lottery?....maybe the new I-Pad?....signing up for Obamacare?...

 

[bripat9643]

Ok, why? What criteria did you choose?

The limited amount of government control.

Have you ever been to Singapore? It's beautiful, and the people are wealthy.

And they have universal healthcare and stricter gun laws than in the U.S.

Sounds pretty good.

I doubt liberals would endorse Sinapore's healthcare system:

Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore has a non-modified universal healthcare system where the government ensures affordability of healthcare within the public health system, largely through a system of compulsory savings, subsidies, and price controls. Singapore's system uses a combination of compulsory savings from payroll deductions to provide subsidies within a nationalized health insurance plan known as Medisave. Within Medisave, each citizen accumulates funds that are individually tracked, and such funds can be pooled within and across an entire extended family. The vast majority of Singapore citizens have substantial savings in this scheme. One of three levels of subsidy is chosen by the patient at the time of the healthcare episode.

A key principle of Singapore's national health scheme is that no medical service is provided free of charge, regardless of the level of subsidy, even within the public healthcare system. This mechanism is intended to reduce the overutilisation of healthcare services, a phenomenon often seen in fully subsidised universal health insurance systems. Out-of-pocket charges vary considerably for each service and level of subsidy. At the highest level of subsidy, although each out-of-pocket expense is typically small, costs can accumulate and become substantial for patients and families. At the lowest level, the subsidy is in effect nonexistent, and patients are treated like private patients, even within the public system.

The increasingly large private sector provides care to those who are privately insured, foreign patients, or public patients who are able to afford what often amount to very large out-of-pocket payments above the levels provided by government subsidies.

Approximately 70-80% of Singaporeans obtain their medical care within the public health system. Overall government spending on healthcare amounts to only 3-4% of annual GDP,[dubious – discuss] partly because government expenditure on healthcare in the private system is extremely low.

 

[bripat9643]

Why show a foreign country?
Right here in America.......

Good point! And this is a capitalist country. Guess it goes both ways, huh?

Those are probably lines to get free stuff from the government, not to buy food.

 

[Moonglow]

I would love to see medical care and scripts price controls, my wife works for Wal-Mart and she is on the medical expense savings program...
I would also like to see tort reform, but with so many lawyers in the govt. I doubt it will happen...

 

[RDD_1210]

The limited amount of government control.

Have you ever been to Singapore? It's beautiful, and the people are wealthy.

And they have universal healthcare and stricter gun laws than in the U.S.

Sounds pretty good.

I doubt liberals would endorse Sinapore's healthcare system:

Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore has a non-modified universal healthcare system where the government ensures affordability of healthcare within the public health system, largely through a system of compulsory savings, subsidies, and price controls. Singapore's system uses a combination of compulsory savings from payroll deductions to provide subsidies within a nationalized health insurance plan known as Medisave. Within Medisave, each citizen accumulates funds that are individually tracked, and such funds can be pooled within and across an entire extended family. The vast majority of Singapore citizens have substantial savings in this scheme. One of three levels of subsidy is chosen by the patient at the time of the healthcare episode.

A key principle of Singapore's national health scheme is that no medical service is provided free of charge, regardless of the level of subsidy, even within the public healthcare system. This mechanism is intended to reduce the overutilisation of healthcare services, a phenomenon often seen in fully subsidised universal health insurance systems. Out-of-pocket charges vary considerably for each service and level of subsidy. At the highest level of subsidy, although each out-of-pocket expense is typically small, costs can accumulate and become substantial for patients and families. At the lowest level, the subsidy is in effect nonexistent, and patients are treated like private patients, even within the public system.

The increasingly large private sector provides care to those who are privately insured, foreign patients, or public patients who are able to afford what often amount to very large out-of-pocket payments above the levels provided by government subsidies.

Approximately 70-80% of Singaporeans obtain their medical care within the public health system. Overall government spending on healthcare amounts to only 3-4% of annual GDP,[dubious – discuss] partly because government expenditure on healthcare in the private system is extremely low.

LOL, so you like the system that is nationalized "largely through a system of compulsory savings, subsidies, and price controls."?

I think it sounds like a solid system, whats not to like? Public insurance for all, private insurance who want and can afford it.

I'm glad to hear you think a Nationalized system based on subsidies and price controls can work.

Let's make this happen here. You on board?

 

[georgephillip]

Where the government guarantees food to its workers

people lining up for bread rations in Caracas Venezuela (aka; socialist paradise)

The Joys of Socialism? Venezuelan Shoppers Queue For Six Hours at Local Markets | The Gateway Pundit

This is NOT a manifestation, but a queue to buy food Venezuela. The result of 15 years of Socialist rule. (RGF3 Esq.)

It now takes Venezuelans up to six hours of standing in line to purchase food staples at the local market.

The people even have to queue for gas

Venezuela: massive proven petrochemical reserves, yet people forced to queue to fill gas bottles.

A glimpse into our future?

No doubt about it. You keep letting socialists (aka; democrats) run things and I can PROMISE you, you'll know the Joys of Socialism first hand.

It's right there in front of you. All you gotta do is open your eyes

Open your eyes to how much better life is today in Venezuela for the majority of its citizens, unlike the economic stagnation taking place in the US

"For more than a decade people opposed to the government of Venezuela – which today includes almost all major Western media outlets – have argued that the Venezuelan economy would implode.

"Like communists in the 1930s rooting for the final crisis of capitalism, they generally saw Venezuela’s economic collapse as just around the corner.

"How frustrating it has been for them to witness only two recessions: one directly caused by the opposition’s oil strike (December 2002-May 2003) and one brought on by the world recession (2009 and the first half of 2010).

"Despite these recessions, the whole decade’s economic performance – the government got control of the national oil company in 2003 – turned out quite well, with average annual growth of real income per person of 2.7 percent, poverty reduced by more than half, and large gains for the majority in employment, access to health care, pensions, and education."

Long-Awaited Apocalypse Not Likely in Venezuela | Op-Eds & Columns

What growth? Only the worst kind of sucker would believe data published by the Venezuelan government. How can they be having economic growth when they don't even have food on the shelves?

The Cuban government makes all the same claims, but almost anyone who lives there would jump at the chance to emigrate to the evil capitalist USA.

The eternal gullibility of socialists is something to marvel at.

How about data from the NYT and IMF?

"'Venezuela was long one of the most prosperous countries in the region, with sophisticated manufacturing, vibrant agriculture and strong businesses, making it hard for many residents to accept such widespread scarcities.'

"This may give the impression that Venezuela's economy was strong before Hugo Chavez came to power in 1998.

"This is not true.

"According to the I.M.F., per capita income was actually 11.8 percent lower in 1998 than it had been 18 years earlier in 1980.

"Since Chavez came to power per capita income has risen by 4.9 percent.

"While this is hardly robust growth, since it was accompanied by greater equality in the distribution of income there can be little doubt that most Venezuelans have fared better under Chavez than under his predecessors."

Economic Problems in Venezuela Did Not Begin With Chavez | Beat the Press

 

[RDD_1210]

Why show a foreign country?
Right here in America.......

Good point! And this is a capitalist country. Guess it goes both ways, huh?

Those are probably lines to get free stuff from the government, not to buy food.

Why would they need free stuff in a capitalist system? I thought capitalism was perfect.

 

[bripat9643]

Good point! And this is a capitalist country. Guess it goes both ways, huh?

Those are probably lines to get free stuff from the government, not to buy food.

Why would they need free stuff in a capitalist system? I thought capitalism was perfect.

They don't. But when has that ever stopped politicians from doling it out to buy votes?

Furthermore, no one ever said capitalism was "perfect," whatever that means in the context of economic systems. It's just better than any proposed alternative.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Hugo Chavez...for the people !!! Lol

 

[RDD_1210]

Those are probably lines to get free stuff from the government, not to buy food.

Why would they need free stuff in a capitalist system? I thought capitalism was perfect.

They don't. But when has that ever stopped politicians from doling it out to buy votes?

Furthermore, no one ever said capitalism was "perfect," whatever that means in the context of economic systems. It's just better than any proposed alternative.

Yet the evidence says that aspects of "socialist" systems are working very well in other nations. Singapore for example as you've pointed out.

 

[georgephillip]

Hugo Chavez...for the people !!! Lol

No rich people required:

"Since 2003, the Venezuelan government set price controls on around 400 basic foods in an effort according to the Washington Post, to 'counter inflation and protect the poor', and in March 2009, they set minimum production quotas for 12 basic foods that were subject to price controls, including white rice, cooking oil, coffee, sugar, powdered milk, cheese, and tomato sauce.[30][31]

"These price ceilings caused food shortages.[30][32][33]

"A 2010 OAS report criticizing Venezuela's human rights standards indicated achievements in addressing illiteracy, healthcare and poverty, and economic and social advances.[34]

"Even though poverty has dropped from 50% to 30%, poverty has begun to rise again contrasting trends of most other Latin American countries. The sustainability of Chavez's social programs are also in question due to their reliance on PDVSA which has been struggling.[35][36]"

Economic policy of the Hugo Chávez government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

There are right ways and wrong ways of doing things. That is the wrong way. Feel better now?

Yeah....it'll work this time for sure!

 

[RDD_1210]

And they have universal healthcare and stricter gun laws than in the U.S.

Sounds pretty good.

I doubt liberals would endorse Sinapore's healthcare system:

Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Singapore has a non-modified universal healthcare system where the government ensures affordability of healthcare within the public health system, largely through a system of compulsory savings, subsidies, and price controls. Singapore's system uses a combination of compulsory savings from payroll deductions to provide subsidies within a nationalized health insurance plan known as Medisave. Within Medisave, each citizen accumulates funds that are individually tracked, and such funds can be pooled within and across an entire extended family. The vast majority of Singapore citizens have substantial savings in this scheme. One of three levels of subsidy is chosen by the patient at the time of the healthcare episode.

A key principle of Singapore's national health scheme is that no medical service is provided free of charge, regardless of the level of subsidy, even within the public healthcare system. This mechanism is intended to reduce the overutilisation of healthcare services, a phenomenon often seen in fully subsidised universal health insurance systems. Out-of-pocket charges vary considerably for each service and level of subsidy. At the highest level of subsidy, although each out-of-pocket expense is typically small, costs can accumulate and become substantial for patients and families. At the lowest level, the subsidy is in effect nonexistent, and patients are treated like private patients, even within the public system.

The increasingly large private sector provides care to those who are privately insured, foreign patients, or public patients who are able to afford what often amount to very large out-of-pocket payments above the levels provided by government subsidies.

Approximately 70-80% of Singaporeans obtain their medical care within the public health system. Overall government spending on healthcare amounts to only 3-4% of annual GDP,[dubious – discuss] partly because government expenditure on healthcare in the private system is extremely low.

LOL, so you like the system that is nationalized "largely through a system of compulsory savings, subsidies, and price controls."?

I think it sounds like a solid system, whats not to like? Public insurance for all, private insurance who want and can afford it.

I'm glad to hear you think a Nationalized system based on subsidies and price controls can work.

Let's make this happen here. You on board?

BriPat.....where did you go? We were having a good discussion about the successful Singapore.