The largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world...

[georgephillip]

We weren't bothering Osama. Yet he came here and killed over 3,000 of our people because he didn't like our lifestyle, our religious freedom, and freedom in general. Are we not to respond because of our fear of innocent casualties?

We had been meddling in the Middle East for decades before 911. We continue to support the racist apartheid state of Israel in its ongoing state-sponsored terror against non-Jews in Palestine. We massed troops in Kuwait and stationed a smaller number in Saudi Arabia in order to prop up a pair of dictators with less regard for democracy than Trump. The US has been the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet for 75 years and on 911 the bully got his nose bloodied.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We had been meddling in the Middle East for decades before 911. We continue to support the racist apartheid state of Israel in its ongoing state-sponsored terror against non-Jews in Palestine. We massed troops in Kuwait and stationed a smaller number in Saudi Arabia in order to prop up a pair of dictators with less regard for democracy than Trump. The US has been the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet for 75 years and on 911 the bully got his nose bloodied.

Yes, we have been in the middle-east for decades now. It's why prior to our fracking advancements, you were able to purchase gasoline at a reasonable price. Now that Biden and Whorris are in, we may be back in the middle-east if these two jokers cutoff our fracking ability. However we didn't get attacked by a middle-east country, we got attacked by a group of radicals.

 

[georgephillip]

When you place an order, does it cost you more or less when a high frequency trading
firm is on the other side of the trade?

Define "cost."

Has High Frequency Trading Ruined The Stock Market For The Rest Of Us?

"Studying the S&P 500 e-mini contracts, researchers found that high-frequency traders made an average profit of $1.92 for every contract traded with large institutional investors and an average of $3.49 when they traded with retail investors.

"This allowed the most aggressive high-speed trader to make an average daily profit of $45,267 according to the 2010 data."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You earned the money according to the vagaries of a "free" market which doesn't distribute income in a perfectly just manner

What makes you think the free market was supposed to do that?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When you place an order, does it cost you more or less when a high frequency trading
firm is on the other side of the trade?

Define "cost."

Has High Frequency Trading Ruined The Stock Market For The Rest Of Us?

"Studying the S&P 500 e-mini contracts, researchers found that high-frequency traders made an average profit of $1.92 for every contract traded with large institutional investors and an average of $3.49 when they traded with retail investors.

"This allowed the most aggressive high-speed trader to make an average daily profit of $45,267 according to the 2010 data."

2010 data? Wow! That's funny.

Here's something a bit more recent.

Many of these more fundamental-led strategies are already the preferred tools of many hedge funds and it is in danger of becoming a crowded (and hence less profitable) space. Profits from HFT are estimated to have peaked for the industry at close to $5 billion in 2009. It is thought that now it is probably less than a billion dollars, spread over many more players,” he says.

HFT: Not so flashy anymore (thetradenews.com)

 

[georgephillip]

Day traders have always tried to get in as fast as possible. They hold on to stocks for an extremely short time, and it's perfectly legal.

Would you categorize day traders as wealth producers or wealth extractors?

The difference between wealth creation and wealth extraction

"Investment means two quite different things. One is the funding of productive and socially useful activities, the other is the purchase of existing assets to milk them for rent, interest, dividends and capital gains."

 

[gipper]

You earned the money according to the vagaries of a "free" market which doesn't distribute income in a perfectly just manner

What makes you think the free market was supposed to do that?

Lol. If you think we live in a free market capitalist nation, you’re dumber than your posts reflect. This is full blown fascism sonny boy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Day traders have always tried to get in as fast as possible. They hold on to stocks for an extremely short time, and it's perfectly legal.

Would you categorize day traders as wealth producers or wealth extractors?

The difference between wealth creation and wealth extraction

"Investment means two quite different things. One is the funding of productive and socially useful activities, the other is the purchase of existing assets to milk them for rent, interest, dividends and capital gains."

Your link is pure BS. As soon as I seen the Socialist term unearned income, I knew it was written by somebody that has no idea WTF they're writing about. He says that being a landlord is bringing in money without working for it. Oh really? I'd like to see him come here and show me how I don't have to work for it unless I hire everybody to do my work for me, which of course would eat up any profits defeating the concept of investment. Christmas eve and day we are expecting a major snow storm; a foot of lake effect snow or more. That means I may not be able to celebrate with my family as I have to keep the parking lot and drive cleared for me and my tenants and perhaps guests, unless I can talk my sister into celebrating one day later. But she's a stubborn type of person.

Companies don't sell stock out of the goodness of their heart. In essence, they are selling part of their own company they created to strangers they never met in their life. You always come here complaining how unfair it is that people have businesses while most others have to labor for their money. Well......not really. You can buy stock making you part owner of a company and share in their profits without taking the initial risks of opening up a business. Of course that also means you share in losses a company may take as well.

When a small business needs to expand, they often take out loans. They use money from these loans to perhaps build an addition to the building, hire more employees which creates jobs, buy more machines which puts other Americans to work because somebody has to build that equipment, open up another outlet on the other side of town, or perhaps in another city or state. Of course interest on big buck loans is expensive. By selling stock, the owner has interest free money they can use for these additional investments. Instead of paying interest on borrowed money, they can expand using money they already have from their thousands of part owners of their company.

Day Traders: Day traders make small amounts of money buying and selling stock, sometimes only holding on to shares for a few hours. When you buy stock, in most cases you are buying that stock from another stock holder--not the company itself. The company only sells so much stock. They make money by buying the stock at a cheaper price than they sell it. Nobody really loses except the day trader when the stock goes in the other direction.

This investment system has made us the most wealthy country in the world. The only people who don't benefit from it are people like you who freely decided not to participate, and instead, complain because companies just don't send you money for no reason in the mail.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Day traders have always tried to get in as fast as possible. They hold on to stocks for an extremely short time, and it's perfectly legal.

Would you categorize day traders as wealth producers or wealth extractors?

The difference between wealth creation and wealth extraction

"Investment means two quite different things. One is the funding of productive and socially useful activities, the other is the purchase of existing assets to milk them for rent, interest, dividends and capital gains."

the other is the purchase of existing assets to milk them for rent, interest, dividends and capital gains."

Once productive and socially useful activities are funded, they must never earn rent, interest, dividends or capital gains?

 

[Brain357]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[badger2]

“While telling them they care” is the Theologian’s tactic used against the naievity of the Believer-masses.

 

[georgephillip]

Will you pay your workers the full value of what they produce, or will you resort to exploitation?

Define the "full value of what they produce"

Assuming you regard human beings as commodities, the full value of what they produce is equal to the new value they create in excess of their own labor cost. (maybe)
The Labor Theory of Value and Surplus Value

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_value#:~:text=According%20to%20Marx's%20theory%2C%20surplus,profit%20when%20products%20are%20sold.

"According to Marx's theory, surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold.[1][2]

"Marx thought that the gigantic increase in wealth and population from the 19th century onwards was mainly due to the competitive striving to obtain maximum surplus-value from the employment of labor, resulting in an equally gigantic increase of productivity and capital resources."

 

[georgephillip]

First off, nobody actually ever paid those rates. However rates were still high, and John Kennedy seen that as a problem on our economy which is why he had them lowered. Much like today, businesses passed on their losses to the American consumer, so we eventually pay all those taxes anyway.

Corporations are citizens and every citizen who "earns" sufficient revenue should pay their fair share of taxes.

As far as consumers ultimately paying those corporate taxes goes, if every natural US citizens received Medicare for All courtesy of corporate taxes, they might be inclined to indulge your questionable claim of "double taxation."

The missing profits of nations | VOX, CEPR Policy Portal

"Between 1985 and 2018, the global average statutory corporate tax rate fell by more than half.

"This column uses new macroeconomic data to argue that profit shifting is a key driver of this decline.

"Close to 40% of multinational profits were artificially shifted to tax havens in 2015, and this massive tax avoidance – and the failure to curb it – are in effect leading more and more countries to give up on taxing multinational companies."

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Corporations are citizens and every citizen who "earns" sufficient revenue should pay their fair share of taxes.

As far as consumers ultimately paying those corporate taxes goes, if every natural US citizens received Medicare for All courtesy of corporate taxes, they might be inclined to indulge your questionable claim of "double taxation."

I never said a thing about double taxation. And why is it only you on the left you believe you know what a fair share even is? We Republicans decide what their fair share is when we get ultimate power in the federal government, and the Democrats do the same. That is unless you can find me a dictionary or encyclopedia that states what the term fair share actually means, then it's up to whoever is in charge to decide the definition--not one party.

Businesses always pass on their costs to consumers. When all this "green" BS was forced on the transportation industry, my employer could no longer reasonably afford new trucks. They increased the price by over 10K for each one. He finally resorted to leasing his new trucks, but that was still more expensive than what he was paying buying his trucks at a cheaper price. Then they forced us to start using Diesel Emission Fluid (DEF). If you don't know what that is, it's a fluid that squirts into your exhaust pipes to supposedly makes it burn cleaner. Then when Bush was President, they forced diesel fuel providers into strictly manufacturing low sulfur diesel fuel. Prior to that, diesel fuel was about a buck or so less per gallon than gasoline. After the regulation, it went up around a dollar more per gallon and it's still that way today.

More costly vehicles, much higher fuel prices, DEF all cost my employer a lot of money. He had to raise his delivery rates to recoup those losses. Our customers who had to pay that cost had to include it in the cost to produce those goods, and when they get to the stores, you and I pay for all that.

 

[JuvenalsCat]

If people don't want to suffer, then they should stop suffering. Seems simple enough to me.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Will you pay your workers the full value of what they produce, or will you resort to exploitation?

Define the "full value of what they produce"

Assuming you regard human beings as commodities, the full value of what they produce is equal to the new value they create in excess of their own labor cost. (maybe)
The Labor Theory of Value and Surplus Value

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_value#:~:text=According%20to%20Marx's%20theory%2C%20surplus,profit%20when%20products%20are%20sold.

"According to Marx's theory, surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold.[1][2]

"Marx thought that the gigantic increase in wealth and population from the 19th century onwards was mainly due to the competitive striving to obtain maximum surplus-value from the employment of labor, resulting in an equally gigantic increase of productivity and capital resources."

In order for the workday to begin, the capitalist must somewhere have acquired money in advance to pay for the raw materials, the instruments, and the labor power of the worker. In this example, this initial outlay amounted to $10 for the raw materials, $1 for the instrument, and $5 for the labor power for a total of $16.

But the Value of the finished product in this example is a different matter. Ten hours of labor are embodied in the raw materials and must be included in the labor time of the final product. Also, the use of the instrument adds another hour of Value each day. Finally, the eight hours of work performed by the worker must be included as well. The Value of the final product, then, amounts to nineteen hours of labor time, which would then be correlated with the price of $19. The capitalist ends the day with $3 surplus value or profit.

Yup. $10 of material, $1 of depreciation and $5 for labor.
$19 sale price for a $3 profit.

The capitalist exploits workers because the wage given to the workers represents only the Value of the workers’ labor power.

Exploits?

to treat someone unfairly in order to make money

You agreed to exchange one hour of work for $1.
If you want some portion of the $3 profit, buy a part of the company.
Or start your own.

 

[flacaltenn]

That few know about, thanks to a billionaire/government controlled corporate media.

Are not the following words depressingly true?

The Institute for Policy Studies has just released a new analysis showing that since the start of the Covid-19 “pandemic” in mid-March and the subsequent transfer upwards of $5 trillion to the wealthy and largest corporations through the Cares Act, approved 96-0 in the U.S. Senate, 650 U.S. billionaires have gained over a trillion dollars in eight months as the America people have suffered an economic catastrophe. This shift upward of massive wealth under Trump is similar to Obama’s massive 2009 bailout of the banks on the backs of American workers. Both were justified through feats of legerdemain by both political parties, accomplices in the fleecing of regular people, many of whom continue to support the politicians that screw them while telling them they care.

If the Democrats and the Republicans are at war as is often claimed, it is only over who gets the larger part of the spoils. Trump and Biden work for the same bosses, those I call the Umbrella People (those who own and run the country through their intelligence/military/media operatives), who produce and direct the movie that keeps so many Americans on the edge of their seats in the hope that their chosen good guy wins in the end.
The Past Lives On: The Elite Strategy To Divide and Conquer – Edward Curtin

This analysis just sucks.. He's emoting about facts not in evidence. WhereTF is this $5Trill from the "Cares" act? ALL of that phony number trickling UP? That's a phony made-up number. The thread ends about there..

 

[gipper]

That few know about, thanks to a billionaire/government controlled corporate media.

Are not the following words depressingly true?

The Institute for Policy Studies has just released a new analysis showing that since the start of the Covid-19 “pandemic” in mid-March and the subsequent transfer upwards of $5 trillion to the wealthy and largest corporations through the Cares Act, approved 96-0 in the U.S. Senate, 650 U.S. billionaires have gained over a trillion dollars in eight months as the America people have suffered an economic catastrophe. This shift upward of massive wealth under Trump is similar to Obama’s massive 2009 bailout of the banks on the backs of American workers. Both were justified through feats of legerdemain by both political parties, accomplices in the fleecing of regular people, many of whom continue to support the politicians that screw them while telling them they care.

If the Democrats and the Republicans are at war as is often claimed, it is only over who gets the larger part of the spoils. Trump and Biden work for the same bosses, those I call the Umbrella People (those who own and run the country through their intelligence/military/media operatives), who produce and direct the movie that keeps so many Americans on the edge of their seats in the hope that their chosen good guy wins in the end.
The Past Lives On: The Elite Strategy To Divide and Conquer – Edward Curtin

This analysis just sucks.. He's emoting about facts not in evidence. WhereTF is this $5Trill from the "Cares" act? ALL of that phony number trickling UP? That's a phony made-up number. The thread ends about there..

No. The column is well written and most accurate in it’s conclusions. He points out that voters of the two criminal parties are being deceived and that both parties cater to the same bosses. The average American has been screwed by both. He states there is little difference between Don and Joe. Don claims to be against the swamp and Deep State, but Assange, Snowden, and Manning have done far more to expose these heinous entities than Don ever has.

As he points out, these are desperate times for many Americans. They are being pushed by the elite and no one in power gives a shit.

 

[georgephillip]

No. I'm looking for an answer. For the truth. From you. For once.

Do you mean the truth about our disappearing middle class?

Bernie Sanders on Economic Inequality

"The main goal of Bernie Sanders’ decades-long career in politics has been to address the root causes of economic inequality because, as he has stated, 'The middle class of this country, over the last forty years, has been disappearing.'"

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No. I'm looking for an answer. For the truth. From you. For once.

Do you mean the truth about our disappearing middle class?

Bernie Sanders on Economic Inequality

"The main goal of Bernie Sanders’ decades-long career in politics has been to address the root causes of economic inequality because, as he has stated, 'The middle class of this country, over the last forty years, has been disappearing.'"

The main goal of Bernie Sanders’ decades-long career in politics

What is good old selfless Bernie's networth now?