The Lazy Poor

[Foxfyre]

This becomes even more obvious when one considers ALL forms of taxation and not just "federal income tax." Those that point at federal income tax to describe the entire tax burdens of our citizenry are either stupid or lying--probably both.

Which is why government should be at the lowest possible level to achieve the sort of society we wish to have. The more layers of government involved in any given situation, the more taxes will need to be collected, absorbed to fund the levels of government, and the less money will be available for those intended to benefit.

Probably true--except for that nagging problem of military protection from other gigantic governments. The "cold war" enabled the U.S. government to become a military state and enlarge its police powers over its population. It is perpetuated today by the never-ending "war on terrorism."

Even the military establishment is bloated through several layers of government and is as corrupt as any other government industry with those in government enriching themselves with payola, graft, bribes, etc., most of which would end if we got the federal government out of the benevolence business and removed the ability of those in government to enrich themselves by misusing our money.

At least the common defense is a constitutionally designated responsibility of the federal government. Farm subsidies, social engineering, and paying people to remain poor is not.

 

[Againsheila]

the new game is, look we did not raise your federal taxes. we just cut federal funding to the states and many programs so they raised your state taxes. then we start adding taxes to anything we can think of. your booze, cigagrettes, phone service, purchases. then we'll make a special luxury tax for expensive purchases. now they are even looking to tax rain. seriously, it worked in MD and now lots of other states are looking at it as well as the fed.

EXACTLY. And this is the reason I consider Ronald Wilson Reagan as the person most singly responsible for the undoing of the American middle class. His "tax cuts" actually moved taxation downward through the lower income groups--and his anti-labor extremism basically outlawed organized labor in the U.S. We may never again recover from the "supply side" economic scam perpetrated by Reagan. He effectively destroyed the America as we knew it, all for political success.

then bush senior increased the taxes, clinton came in and brought them back down. labor in the USA out priced itself.

How do you get "labor out priced itself" from "Clinton brought taxes down?"

Clinton signed NAFTA and every free trade agreement that crossed his desk, that's why our jobs left.

 

[kwc57]

I'll agree with you, but I don't like that because a few abuse the privileged, everyone pays the price.

It's more than a few. Don't buy into the liberal hype. Their intent is to keep people dependent on them and buy votes thru entitlements to stay in power.

Case Worker: Illegal Aliens Got Food Stamps by the ?Vanload? | Judicial Watch

Yeah, illegals, not Americans. We need to take care of our own FIRST.

I'm not buying into any hype, I going by my own experiences and those I know. The food stamp program is being abused by a FEW, not the majority but IMO it shouldn't exist at all. Pay them enough on disability or unemployment and raise the mw so they can buy their own food and we can save money by getting rid of one entire bureaucracy.

Illegals is simply one facet of a larger problem. Disability and unemployment are not PAY. The minimum wage has never been intended to support an individual and especially not a family. MW jobs are low skill beginner jobs for teenagers or older people looking to supplement their income.

 

[Againsheila]

It's more than a few. Don't buy into the liberal hype. Their intent is to keep people dependent on them and buy votes thru entitlements to stay in power.

Case Worker: Illegal Aliens Got Food Stamps by the ?Vanload? | Judicial Watch

Yeah, illegals, not Americans. We need to take care of our own FIRST.

I'm not buying into any hype, I going by my own experiences and those I know. The food stamp program is being abused by a FEW, not the majority but IMO it shouldn't exist at all. Pay them enough on disability or unemployment and raise the mw so they can buy their own food and we can save money by getting rid of one entire bureaucracy.

Illegals is simply one facet of a larger problem. Disability and unemployment are not PAY. The minimum wage has never been intended to support an individual and especially not a family. MW jobs are low skill beginner jobs for teenagers or older people looking to supplement their income.

That may have been true before our better paying jobs were shipped overseas. It's not true today.

 

[koshergrl]

Good lord, she's mentally ill and fixated on blaming others for her own joblessness.

 

[kwc57]

Yeah, illegals, not Americans. We need to take care of our own FIRST.

I'm not buying into any hype, I going by my own experiences and those I know. The food stamp program is being abused by a FEW, not the majority but IMO it shouldn't exist at all. Pay them enough on disability or unemployment and raise the mw so they can buy their own food and we can save money by getting rid of one entire bureaucracy.

Illegals is simply one facet of a larger problem. Disability and unemployment are not PAY. The minimum wage has never been intended to support an individual and especially not a family. MW jobs are low skill beginner jobs for teenagers or older people looking to supplement their income.

That may have been true before our better paying jobs were shipped overseas. It's not true today.

You're wrong. Life is about choices. My 20 year old son who is a sophomore in college spent last summer making about $8 per hour working for a garden center a mile from our house. This summer he will be serving an internship on the north slope of Alaska making about $28 per hour. It's because he is getting an education in a field with high demand and is willing to go where the job and money is.

 

[koshergrl]

Bingo. And that is how successful people work: calculated risks and SACRIFICES which build character and ultimately result in a life that can be deemed *successful*. Maybe not in monetary gain (it depends) but at least in a life that you can look back on and say "I'm proud I did what it took."

 

[Againsheila]

Illegals is simply one facet of a larger problem. Disability and unemployment are not PAY. The minimum wage has never been intended to support an individual and especially not a family. MW jobs are low skill beginner jobs for teenagers or older people looking to supplement their income.

That may have been true before our better paying jobs were shipped overseas. It's not true today.

You're wrong. Life is about choices. My 20 year old son who is a sophomore in college spent last summer making about $8 per hour working for a garden center a mile from our house. This summer he will be serving an internship on the north slope of Alaska making about $28 per hour. It's because he is getting an education in a field with high demand and is willing to go where the job and money is.

Your son is lucky. My niece got her degree in Environmental Sciences and still can't find a job in her field. She's working at Bartells where they put her through pharmacology school and she just graduated. Many if not most college graduates today are not finding work in their field and some of them aren't finding work at all. As I said, the rungs on the ladder are missing, we've shipped them overseas.

 

[there4eyeM]

Boy, give 'Chic credit for starting a popular thread! 825 posts and counting! The poor may be lazy, but USMB posters are busy!

 

[koshergrl]

That may have been true before our better paying jobs were shipped overseas. It's not true today.

You're wrong. Life is about choices. My 20 year old son who is a sophomore in college spent last summer making about $8 per hour working for a garden center a mile from our house. This summer he will be serving an internship on the north slope of Alaska making about $28 per hour. It's because he is getting an education in a field with high demand and is willing to go where the job and money is.

Your son is lucky. My niece got her degree in Environmental Sciences and still can't find a job in her field. She's working at Bartells where they put her through pharmacology school and she just graduated. Many if not most college graduates today are not finding work in their field and some of them aren't finding work at all. As I said, the rungs on the ladder are missing, we've shipped them overseas.

 

[Freemason9]

Illegals is simply one facet of a larger problem. Disability and unemployment are not PAY. The minimum wage has never been intended to support an individual and especially not a family. MW jobs are low skill beginner jobs for teenagers or older people looking to supplement their income.

That may have been true before our better paying jobs were shipped overseas. It's not true today.

You're wrong. Life is about choices. My 20 year old son who is a sophomore in college spent last summer making about $8 per hour working for a garden center a mile from our house. This summer he will be serving an internship on the north slope of Alaska making about $28 per hour. It's because he is getting an education in a field with high demand and is willing to go where the job and money is.

Also, all Alaskan residents are heavily subsidized by the U.S. government.

 

[Freemason9]

Boy, give 'Chic credit for starting a popular thread! 825 posts and counting! The poor may be lazy, but USMB posters are busy!

It's popularity continues because P.C. has stopped responding.

 

[Foxfyre]

This becomes even more obvious when one considers ALL forms of taxation and not just "federal income tax." Those that point at federal income tax to describe the entire tax burdens of our citizenry are either stupid or lying--probably both.

the new game is, look we did not raise your federal taxes. we just cut federal funding to the states and many programs so they raised your state taxes. then we start adding taxes to anything we can think of. your booze, cigagrettes, phone service, purchases. then we'll make a special luxury tax for expensive purchases. now they are even looking to tax rain. seriously, it worked in MD and now lots of other states are looking at it as well as the fed.

EXACTLY. And this is the reason I consider Ronald Wilson Reagan as the person most singly responsible for the undoing of the American middle class. His "tax cuts" actually moved taxation downward through the lower income groups--and his anti-labor extremism basically outlawed organized labor in the U.S. We may never again recover from the "supply side" economic scam perpetrated by Reagan. He effectively destroyed the America as we knew it, all for political success.

To ask you to back that up would be too off topic on this thread. Perhaps you would like to back it up here, however:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/291955-the-real-reagan-and-thatcher-record-revisited.html

 

[Claudette]

Hell. I've moved several times following the jobs.

If I lost my job tomorrow my ass would be in North Dakota. Jobs up the ass there.

Ya gotta go where the jobs are. Thats always been my motto.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hell. I've moved several times following the jobs.

If I lost my job tomorrow my ass would be in North Dakota. Jobs up the ass there.

Ya gotta go where the jobs are. Thats always been my motto.

In truth moving is not always a good option for some tied to property--a good reason not to invest in property until you are finacially solvent by the way--or have responsibility for loved ones they can't leave, etc. etc. We have been in that situation. But we have also left places we didn't want to leave and we have lived in places we didn't want to live when it was necessary for a job. When working for the other guy wasn't working out, we risked our meager savings to go into business for ourselves.

But the bottom line is, if we are to be a free people, we have to be willing to do what we have to do to support ourselves and appreciate help when it is offered, but do not depend on others to make our lives more wonderful.

 

[koshergrl]

Hell. I've moved several times following the jobs.

If I lost my job tomorrow my ass would be in North Dakota. Jobs up the ass there.

Ya gotta go where the jobs are. Thats always been my motto.

Mine too.

It's the motto of all successful and independent people.

 

[kwc57]

That may have been true before our better paying jobs were shipped overseas. It's not true today.

You're wrong. Life is about choices. My 20 year old son who is a sophomore in college spent last summer making about $8 per hour working for a garden center a mile from our house. This summer he will be serving an internship on the north slope of Alaska making about $28 per hour. It's because he is getting an education in a field with high demand and is willing to go where the job and money is.

Also, all Alaskan residents are heavily subsidized by the U.S. government.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China.......but he is an Oklahoma resident. He will be spending the summer doing fire and safety work for BP in Alaska.

 

[Againsheila]

Hell. I've moved several times following the jobs.

If I lost my job tomorrow my ass would be in North Dakota. Jobs up the ass there.

Ya gotta go where the jobs are. Thats always been my motto.

In truth moving is not always a good option for some tied to property--a good reason not to invest in property until you are finacially solvent by the way--or have responsibility for loved ones they can't leave, etc. etc. We have been in that situation. But we have also left places we didn't want to leave and we have lived in places we didn't want to live when it was necessary for a job. When working for the other guy wasn't working out, we risked our meager savings to go into business for ourselves.

But the bottom line is, if we are to be a free people, we have to be willing to do what we have to do to support ourselves and appreciate help when it is offered, but do not depend on others to make our lives more wonderful.

It's easy to say you'd move for a job, and I know many people who have. Heck, I'm an Air Force brat, I'm not adverse to moving for a job. The problem is there just aren't any good jobs out there and how do you get the money to move for a job you're not guaranteed to have when you get there? If you're going to be without a job, it's better to do that close to where your family and friends are so they can help you.

I know a homeless guy who came here for a job. He was promised a well paying job and they actually paid for him to come out here. Less than a year later, they laid him off and there was no other job for him.

As I said before, my brother in law has a PhD and he was laid off only a year after he moved to get the job. He'd sold his business to take the job because it paid so well, then he had nothing. It's taken years but he's building up another business, he will never make as much money as he did before. NEVER. There is something wrong there.

If you've lost your job and have no money, how do you move? Companies just don't guarantee jobs anymore, too many have been sent overseas. Even if you are guaranteed a job when you get there, that doesn't mean it will still be there a year later.

And if you have a family? If your husband or wife works and you've lost your job, are they suppose to pick up and move with you to a place on the "hope" that you'll find another job?

It's just not as easy as you think it is.

 

[Freemason9]

Hell. I've moved several times following the jobs.

If I lost my job tomorrow my ass would be in North Dakota. Jobs up the ass there.

Ya gotta go where the jobs are. Thats always been my motto.

Mine too.

It's the motto of all successful and independent people.

Sorry, that will never happen. That place is a shithole, and that's why they have to pay so much for people to move there. The climate is horrible, the scenary is stark, the population is dreary, and it is a harsh right-wing political environment--not very inviting for anyone under the age of, say, 60.

 

[Claudette]

Hell. I've moved several times following the jobs.

If I lost my job tomorrow my ass would be in North Dakota. Jobs up the ass there.

Ya gotta go where the jobs are. Thats always been my motto.

In truth moving is not always a good option for some tied to property--a good reason not to invest in property until you are finacially solvent by the way--or have responsibility for loved ones they can't leave, etc. etc. We have been in that situation. But we have also left places we didn't want to leave and we have lived in places we didn't want to live when it was necessary for a job. When working for the other guy wasn't working out, we risked our meager savings to go into business for ourselves.

But the bottom line is, if we are to be a free people, we have to be willing to do what we have to do to support ourselves and appreciate help when it is offered, but do not depend on others to make our lives more wonderful.

Yup. Its all about whatever it takes to make your way.

I've never had a problem picking up my belongings, my horse and my dogs and hitting the road to follow the jobs.