The Liberal Illusion of Equality and Tolerance: Homosexual Edition

[DiamondDave]

That is your made-up definition of a public business.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes the distinction clear:

(e) The provisions of this title shall not apply to a private club or other establishment not in fact open to the public, except to the extent that the facilities of such establishment are made available to the customers or patrons of an establishment within the scope of subsection (b).

US Civil Rights Act - 1964 - Title 2

Except it is not a public business... sorry.. equal treatment by government under law for human citizens is one thing... forcing a privately owned business to give you services based on them being forced to accept your chosen actions is quite another

You do not have a civil right to force acceptance of behavior upon a business owner

Since a business cannot tell if a person is gay, and yet is willing to serve, and profit from, persons whose homosexual orientation is unknown,

that business has no valid cause to claim that it is so harmed by the requirement to serve gays that it must be allowed to refuse that service.

Exactly.. you cannot tell by looking... but it is the ACTION to be documented or whatever that is the issue..


If I am a Jew, you do not get to force me to take pictures of a skinhead event.. if I am a black, you don't get to force me to provide a decorated cake with a KKK symbol on it... and if I don't condone homosexual weddings, and you inform me that you want a cake for your gay wedding, you don't get to force me to decorate it...

Now... Have no idea of your beliefs and choices in action, and you do not have an idea of mine... if I show up and break an existing contract for services when there was no stipulation to limitations within the contract, then you have an issue with me, and rightfully so... if you openly state an action, or if you sign a contract wherein I as a business person have a clause that states I will not provide services for certain actions or events (notice not PEOPLE), and you try and trick me into it, you are the one who should be SOL... again, we all discriminate, and rightfully so, when it comes to the behaviors and ACTIONS of others

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Templar, maybe you can get a job as a security guard at one of those stores that refuse service to gays. You can use your gaydar to ferret them out.

LOL. Love it.

 

[DiamondDave]

That is your made-up definition of a public business.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes the distinction clear:

(e) The provisions of this title shall not apply to a private club or other establishment not in fact open to the public, except to the extent that the facilities of such establishment are made available to the customers or patrons of an establishment within the scope of subsection (b).

US Civil Rights Act - 1964 - Title 2

Except it is not a public business... sorry.. equal treatment by government under law for human citizens is one thing... forcing a privately owned business to give you services based on them being forced to accept your chosen actions is quite another

You do not have a civil right to force acceptance of behavior upon a business owner

I suppose a restaurant could lawfully refuse service to two gay guys who came into the establishment while simultaneously having sex,

otherwise you're not refusing service based on an action.

Well. they are more offensive actions to some than just the sex act... and I think the sex act is covered whether it is gay or not...

Again.. you want someone to photograph a gay couple kissing.. it offends that someone.. you do not get to force them to provide that service.. that is against the very notion of freedom.. you have every right to act your way, and they have every right to act theirs... again, discrimination of choice in action and behavior

 

[NYcarbineer]

Except it is not a public business... sorry.. equal treatment by government under law for human citizens is one thing... forcing a privately owned business to give you services based on them being forced to accept your chosen actions is quite another

You do not have a civil right to force acceptance of behavior upon a business owner

I suppose a restaurant could lawfully refuse service to two gay guys who came into the establishment while simultaneously having sex,

otherwise you're not refusing service based on an action.

Well. they are more offensive actions to some than just the sex act... and I think the sex act is covered whether it is gay or not...

Again.. you want someone to photograph a gay couple kissing.. it offends that someone.. you do not get to force them to provide that service.. that is against the very notion of freedom.. you have every right to act your way, and they have every right to act theirs... again, discrimination of choice in action and behavior

When you choose to do business in the United States, you choose to be subject to all applicable laws regarding the business you choose. That includes the laws that apply to discrimination.

 

[DiamondDave]

I suppose a restaurant could lawfully refuse service to two gay guys who came into the establishment while simultaneously having sex,

otherwise you're not refusing service based on an action.

Well. they are more offensive actions to some than just the sex act... and I think the sex act is covered whether it is gay or not...

Again.. you want someone to photograph a gay couple kissing.. it offends that someone.. you do not get to force them to provide that service.. that is against the very notion of freedom.. you have every right to act your way, and they have every right to act theirs... again, discrimination of choice in action and behavior

When you choose to do business in the United States, you choose to be subject to all applicable laws regarding the business you choose. That includes the laws that apply to discrimination.

Sorry.. we are allowed to discriminate against action and behavior

You just don't like it when it is an action you somehow support...

as stated, you would support it if a jewish photographer or a black baker refused to photograph or cater a a KKK event

 

[The T]

Well. they are more offensive actions to some than just the sex act... and I think the sex act is covered whether it is gay or not...

Again.. you want someone to photograph a gay couple kissing.. it offends that someone.. you do not get to force them to provide that service.. that is against the very notion of freedom.. you have every right to act your way, and they have every right to act theirs... again, discrimination of choice in action and behavior

When you choose to do business in the United States, you choose to be subject to all applicable laws regarding the business you choose. That includes the laws that apply to discrimination.

Sorry.. we are allowed to discriminate against action and behavior

You just don't like it when it is an action you somehow support...

as stated, you would support it if a jewish photographer or a black baker refused to photograph or cater a a KKK event

I'll bet Carbonated doesn't discriminate when someone knocks at his door...he just says come on in!

 

[The T]

Some of the Same points could be raised about blacks, etc.

Is 'GAY' a race Matt?

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, your argument gets weaker and weaker. If you don't want the government to stick its nose into your bedroom, why are you asking them to condone the practice of homosexuality? Hmm? My faculties are just fine, it's yours I'm concerned about.

Given that my job is irrelevant to this discussion, that also makes your argument irrelevant, Joe. My employment has zero to do with this discussion, and it shows how intellectually bankrupt you are by having to stoop to such a level to argue with me.

And if I want your autobiography about YOUR sordid adventures with employment, I'll ask for it. Which will be never.

Sure it does. It shows you are a rube. A rube who votes about things that have nothing to do with him while siding with people who will screw you.

Point is, you guys have no problem with the government sticking their noses in people's bedrooms when the majority was on your side. Now that history has passed you by, you are clinging to the last bit of bigotry you think we are going to let you keep.

Don't worry. We won't.

 

[JoeB131]

Some of the Same points could be raised about blacks, etc.

Yeah, I heard that argument before. Those who promote it, compare the current day "struggle" of homosexuals to the Civil Rights movement.

There is one difference, though. One can not change the color of skin one was born with.

Saying that homosexuality is a trait that can not be changed is like saying that nothing can be done about changing one's color of hair.

And again, when did you "make" the decision to be straight?

Sexual orientation cannot be changed. Either you are or you aren't.

 

[JoeB131]

[

No, my version of "endorse" is my freedom to approve and disapprove of anything and anyone I wish.

By these public accommodation laws, they (congress) have passed a law which in regards to religion, "prohibits the free exercise thereof" as put by the First Amendment. By forcing someone to serve you because you are gay and they have a religious opposition to it, you are therefore "prohibiting the free exercise" of this persons faith by arbitrarily dismissing their beliefs and rights to act on them for the sake of equal treatment.

Again, you have a right to approve or disapprove.

A business doesn't.

This crazy Republican Notion of "Corporations are People, Too!" is absurd on its face. A business has to abide by all the laws regulating their business. Period.

 

[DiamondDave]

Some of the Same points could be raised about blacks, etc.

Yeah, I heard that argument before. Those who promote it, compare the current day "struggle" of homosexuals to the Civil Rights movement.

There is one difference, though. One can not change the color of skin one was born with.

Saying that homosexuality is a trait that can not be changed is like saying that nothing can be done about changing one's color of hair.

And again, when did you "make" the decision to be straight?

Sexual orientation cannot be changed. Either you are or you aren't.

No.. SEX cannot be changed (in spite of what the homosexual community tells you)... sexual orientation in NO WAY has been linked to anything genetic (for the umpteen billionth time)... and with it NOT being shown as genetic, it can be choice, learned behavioral, mental issue, chemical imbalance, or aliment..

 

[Moonglow]

RNC Official Asks Republicans In Congress To Support Gay Rights

RNC Official Asks Republicans In Congress To Support Gay Rights

The Log Cabin Republicans (LCR) is an organization that works within the Republican Party to advocate equal rights for gays and lesbians in the United States. The group's constituency supports the Republican Party and advocates for the rights of gay and lesbian Americans.[2][3]

Log Cabin Republicans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No.. SEX cannot be changed (in spite of what the homosexual community tells you)... sexual orientation in NO WAY has been linked to anything genetic (for the umpteen billionth time)... and with it NOT being shown as genetic, it can be choice, learned behavioral, mental issue, chemical imbalance, or aliment..

Dave is still trying to say the world is flat I see? The why of homosexuals matters very little Dave. They've always been with us, and appear to be staying that way. You are beating your head against a brick wall. Give yourself a break and stop.

 

[DiamondDave]

No.. SEX cannot be changed (in spite of what the homosexual community tells you)... sexual orientation in NO WAY has been linked to anything genetic (for the umpteen billionth time)... and with it NOT being shown as genetic, it can be choice, learned behavioral, mental issue, chemical imbalance, or aliment..

Dave is still trying to say the world is flat I see? The why of homosexuals matters very little Dave. They've always been with us, and appear to be staying that way. You are beating your head against a brick wall. Give yourself a break and stop.

Show the genetic markers.. we'll be waiting

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No.. SEX cannot be changed (in spite of what the homosexual community tells you)... sexual orientation in NO WAY has been linked to anything genetic (for the umpteen billionth time)... and with it NOT being shown as genetic, it can be choice, learned behavioral, mental issue, chemical imbalance, or aliment..

Dave is still trying to say the world is flat I see? The why of homosexuals matters very little Dave. They've always been with us, and appear to be staying that way. You are beating your head against a brick wall. Give yourself a break and stop.

Show the genetic markers.. we'll be waiting

It's in process but what difference does it make? Are you going to let it go when science says we found the codes, the causes? Won't it still be a Sin in the Bible? Let's say that we knew exactly how and why it happened right now. Then what? You toss the Bible? You carry a sign supporting them? Gay is now okay?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Liberal Illusion of Equality and Tolerance: Homosexual Edition

Your post makes no sense whatsoever, and only exhibits your comprehensive ignorance and partisan idiocy.

You’ve posted an incoherent collection of half-truths, partisan contrivances, and outright lies, where the issues ‘addressed’ have little to do with each other, much less the issue of equal rights for gay Americans.

Below are the essential facts of the issue, use them as a starting point to do your own research so you might free yourself from your crippling ignorance.

Although inalienable our civil rights are not absolute, and are subject to reasonable restrictions by the state. (See, e.g., Clark v. Community for Creative Non-Violence (1984)). In order for the state to justify restricting or denying citizens their civil liberties, the government must meet a very heavy Constitutional burden: restrictions must be rationally based, they must be supported by objective, documented evidence, and they must pursue a proper legislative end.

With these fundamental facts in mind, consider laws that seek to deny gay Americans their civil liberties, such as not allowing same-sex couples to access marriage law in violation of the 14th Amendment. Federal courts have consistently found that such laws are not rationally based, lack any objective, documented evidence in support, and pursue no proper legislative end. These laws have in fact failed to meet that heavy Constitutional burden, and are invalidated by the courts accordingly. Indeed, such laws seek only to make gay Americans different from everyone else. This a state cannot do. A state may not deem a class of persons a stranger to its laws (Romer v. Evans (1996)).

Consequently, the issue has nothing to do with ‘you liberals,’ people being ‘forced’ to do anything, Christians having their ‘rights denied,’ ‘poles and holes,’ or any of the other ridiculous, childish, and inane fabrications you reference.

And because liberals advocate civil rights for all Americans, including gay Americans, their advocacy is in no way ‘hypercritical’ as their position is consistent with settled and accepted Constitutional case law and 14th Amendment jurisprudence.

 

[JoeB131]

[

No.. SEX cannot be changed (in spite of what the homosexual community tells you)... sexual orientation in NO WAY has been linked to anything genetic (for the umpteen billionth time)... and with it NOT being shown as genetic, it can be choice, learned behavioral, mental issue, chemical imbalance, or aliment..

Who says it has to be something "genetic"?

When we put out a handicapped Parking space, do you put an asterisk on it that says, "But only if you were born that way!"

If I were to put out a sign that says "Mormons will be shot on sight!" do you really think I have a leg to stand on to say that Mormonism is "learned" behavior?

But here's the gag.

Jan Brewer is going to veto the "I don't have to bake a cake" law. The Business Republicans looked at losing the Superbowl and boycotts of the state and told her to jump and she said, "How High".

Just an object lesson for your "Christian" Conservatives. Money beats God every time.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yeah, I heard that argument before. Those who promote it, compare the current day "struggle" of homosexuals to the Civil Rights movement.

There is one difference, though. One can not change the color of skin one was born with.

Saying that homosexuality is a trait that can not be changed is like saying that nothing can be done about changing one's color of hair.

And again, when did you "make" the decision to be straight?

Sexual orientation cannot be changed. Either you are or you aren't.

No.. SEX cannot be changed (in spite of what the homosexual community tells you)... sexual orientation in NO WAY has been linked to anything genetic (for the umpteen billionth time)... and with it NOT being shown as genetic, it can be choice, learned behavioral, mental issue, chemical imbalance, or aliment..

Fortunately this is legally and Constitutionally irrelevant, and appropriately so given the ignorance and hate exhibited by you and most others on the right.

It makes no legal difference whether one is gay as a consequence of genetics or personal choice, both are manifestations protected by the Fifth Amendment’s Liberty Clause, where every American has an individual right to self-determination, free from interference by the state (Lawrence v. Texas (2003)).

The issue has nothing to do with the ‘homosexual community,’ and everything to do with the fact that Americans are at liberty to decide for themselves how to live their lives, including that of being a gay American.

 

[paperview]

No.. SEX cannot be changed (in spite of what the homosexual community tells you)... sexual orientation in NO WAY has been linked to anything genetic (for the umpteen billionth time)... and with it NOT being shown as genetic, it can be choice, learned behavioral, mental issue, chemical imbalance, or aliment..

Dave is still trying to say the world is flat I see? The why of homosexuals matters very little Dave. They've always been with us, and appear to be staying that way. You are beating your head against a brick wall. Give yourself a break and stop.

Show the genetic markers.. we'll be waiting

People who think homosexuality is a choice are often just two sixpacks and a lonely night away from seeing their haunting homoerotic dreams become a reality.

 

[Bumberclyde]

I think if people can put up with raging homophobes, then gay-bashers should be able to put up with gays. All men are create equal.