The Lies of Franklin Roosevelt

[Camp]

That FDR was an immoral, dishonest, irresponsible, power-hungry scumbag who violated our Constitution, robbed US citizens of their rights and property in a manner anathema to all our country stands for, climbed into bed with (among others) Communism, and saddled future generations with insupportable government obligations we cannot possibly pay for in perpetuity. Many posters have presented mountains of FACTS to support this argument and you have never ONCE attempted to address said FACTS. You merely fall back on logical fallacy like some futile mantra that can change the FACTS of history. You can't think for yourself and you won't even try because you know you don't have a leg to stand on.

Only the very naive believe this kind of revisionist history. The mountains of facts are not accepted as facts by historians and scholars. The sources used to establish "facts" are used the same way as sources for conspiracy theories and blatant political hack histories are used. They are unreliable, distorted, taken out of context, etc. One need only look up a few of the sources discribed as "mountains of facts" in this thread to discover the sources have in many cases been debunked long ago by multiple scholars and professional historians.

Which FACTS don't you believe? This is not "revisionist history," it's just plain history. The FACT is that FDR signed Executive Order 9906 and threw over 100,000 innocent people, the majority of them US CITIZENS into concentration camps. Barbed wire, armed guard towers, the whole works. Are you trying to say you don't believe this FACT? Are YOU trying to 'revise' history?

You know damn well they were not concentration camps. When speaking about WWII, concentration camps have a very specific definition. Concentration camps discribe places of horror where human beings were starved, tortured and murdered. Concentration camps were places were small children and grandmothers were treated like animals. So fuck you and your accusation that that kind of thing happened in this country by and to Americans. Everyone is in agreement that the Japanese internment camps were wrong. We also understand that the country was in a panic and feared that the Japanese had spys and sabateurs. We overreacted. We don't need assholes accusing us of doing something a thousand times worse in an effort to spread some negative propaganda and portraying us as being the same as the Nazi's. And anyhow, you are simply deflecting from having to defend the hack/conspiracy revisionist history you want to push, which is impossible to do with the shit sources used in this thread.

 

[Unkotare]

Only the very naive believe this kind of revisionist history. The mountains of facts are not accepted as facts by historians and scholars. The sources used to establish "facts" are used the same way as sources for conspiracy theories and blatant political hack histories are used. They are unreliable, distorted, taken out of context, etc. One need only look up a few of the sources discribed as "mountains of facts" in this thread to discover the sources have in many cases been debunked long ago by multiple scholars and professional historians.

Which FACTS don't you believe? This is not "revisionist history," it's just plain history. The FACT is that FDR signed Executive Order 9906 and threw over 100,000 innocent people, the majority of them US CITIZENS into concentration camps. Barbed wire, armed guard towers, the whole works. Are you trying to say you don't believe this FACT? Are YOU trying to 'revise' history?

You know damn well they were not concentration camps. .

Of course they were. By definition they were. FD-fucking-R referred to them as such himself. You don't like that? Good, you shouldn't.

 

[Camp]

Which FACTS don't you believe? This is not "revisionist history," it's just plain history. The FACT is that FDR signed Executive Order 9906 and threw over 100,000 innocent people, the majority of them US CITIZENS into concentration camps. Barbed wire, armed guard towers, the whole works. Are you trying to say you don't believe this FACT? Are YOU trying to 'revise' history?

You know damn well they were not concentration camps. .

Of course they were. By definition they were. FD-fucking-R referred to them as such himself. You don't like that? Good, you shouldn't.

The term concentration camp did not have the same meaning during the war until the German concentration camps were discovered. Today the term has a special meaning that reminds people of something other that an internment camp. We call them internment camps because that is what they were. If you are going to use the term concentration camp to insult America at least have the balls to stand up for yourself when you get called out and caught. Don't try to crawl back under the rock.

 

[regent]

You answered your own charge that FDR violated the Constitution by declaring the Court declared the Executive order Counstitional Next case?

Ducking again, pussy? Address the issue. Can you defend his actions? Can those possibly be the actions of a chief executive that YOU consider the best our country has ever had? If so, reconcile his villainy with your adulation.

I thought the Issue was FDR's violations of the Constitution. Have you any more instances of FDR violating the Constitution or is that it? And what does violating the Constitution mean, does it mean in your opinion it was a violation, or it was the Court's opinion, similar to Truman and the mills, or does it mean disobeying a Court decision, similar to Jackson?
What do you mean when you say FDR violated the Constituton?

 

[Unkotare]

You know damn well they were not concentration camps. .

Of course they were. By definition they were. FD-fucking-R referred to them as such himself. You don't like that? Good, you shouldn't.

The term concentration camp did not have the same meaning during the war until the German concentration camps were discovered. Today the term has a special meaning that reminds people of something other that an internment camp. We call them internment camps because that is what they were. If you are going to use the term concentration camp to insult America at least have the balls to stand up for yourself when you get called out and caught. Don't try to crawl back under the rock.

I most certainly do NOT intend to insult America. Having a scumbag like FDR in the White House was an insult to America. Words have meanings, kid. Like it or not, FDR ran CONCENTRATION CAMPS right here in the US filled mostly with US Citizens, all of whom were innocent of any crime of espionage, treason, or sabotage. In fact, many of the victims of FDR's crime proved themselves among the bravest and most loyal Americans we've ever produced.

Concentration camps are exactly what they were. FD-fucking-R himself referred to them as such. They were not Nazi Death Camps, of course and I've never said they were, but they were CONCENTRATION CAMPS. You don't like that? Don't like the term? Good, you shouldn't, but you can't change history by hiding from it.

 

[Unkotare]

You answered your own charge that FDR violated the Constitution by declaring the Court declared the Executive order Counstitional Next case?

Ducking again, pussy? Address the issue. Can you defend his actions? Can those possibly be the actions of a chief executive that YOU consider the best our country has ever had? If so, reconcile his villainy with your adulation.

I thought the Issue was FDR's violations of the Constitution.

Ok, do you want to mention that:

"On November 10, 1983, Fred Korematsu`s conviction was overturned on the grounds that the federal government had withheld material evidence from the Supreme Court. In 2011, the justice department formally admitted that it had presented the case in error, eliminating its standing as a precedent.

Forty-six years after the harsh conditions, dislocated lives, and pain, the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 was signed by President Ronald Reagan. With it, the U.S. government formally acknowledged its mistake, apologized, and provided token financial restitution..."
Japanese Internment

Now you have no further grounds for denying his violation of the Constitution. Would you like to finally stop being a pussy and address this:

"Can you defend his actions? Can those possibly be the actions of a chief executive that YOU consider the best our country has ever had? If so, reconcile his villainy with your adulation."

 

[Camp]

Of course they were. By definition they were. FD-fucking-R referred to them as such himself. You don't like that? Good, you shouldn't.

The term concentration camp did not have the same meaning during the war until the German concentration camps were discovered. Today the term has a special meaning that reminds people of something other that an internment camp. We call them internment camps because that is what they were. If you are going to use the term concentration camp to insult America at least have the balls to stand up for yourself when you get called out and caught. Don't try to crawl back under the rock.

I most certainly do NOT intend to insult America. Having a scumbag like FDR in the White House was an insult to America. Words have meanings, kid. Like it or not, FDR ran CONCENTRATION CAMPS right here in the US filled mostly with US Citizens, all of whom were innocent of any crime of espionage, treason, or sabotage. In fact, many of the victims of FDR's crime proved themselves among the bravest and most loyal Americans we've ever produced.

Concentration camps are exactly what they were. FD-fucking-R himself referred to them as such. They were not Nazi Death Camps, of course and I've never said they were, but they were CONCENTRATION CAMPS. You don't like that? Don't like the term? Good, you shouldn't, but you can't change history by hiding from it.

You make my point about revisionist history depending on distortion, facts being taken out of context, etc. If everywhere in the revisionist history the term internment camp was used instead of "concentration camp", the story takes on a different persona. All those little distortions tweak the story to adhere to a certain agenda. Why else would the term for internment camps, used for over a half a century be changed to "concentration camps".
As for insulting American's, calling a president a scumbag is an insult to America. You insult the office of the Presidency, the American's who voted him to be President in four elections and the American's who petitioned to have a Memorial built in his honor in the nations capitol.

 

[Unkotare]

Why else would the term for internment camps, used for over a half a century be changed to "concentration camps".

The change was from "concentration camp" to "internment camp." Learn some history.


And no matter how you want to sugar-coat it, the fact remains that FD-fucking-R ran CONCENTRATION CAMPS right here in the US and filled them with innocent, loyal Americans. If that's not the act of an un-American scumbag then I don't know what is. If you want to defend the fucking scumbag then YOU don't know what America is.

 

[Unkotare]

calling a president a scumbag is an insult to America. You insult the office of the Presidency,

The scumbag FDR was an insult to the office, to the country, and to the principles upon which it was founded. Stop being a dead scumbag's nuthugger.

 

[regent]

Ducking again, pussy? Address the issue. Can you defend his actions? Can those possibly be the actions of a chief executive that YOU consider the best our country has ever had? If so, reconcile his villainy with your adulation.

I thought the Issue was FDR's violations of the Constitution.

Ok, do you want to mention that:

"On November 10, 1983, Fred Korematsu`s conviction was overturned on the grounds that the federal government had withheld material evidence from the Supreme Court. In 2011, the justice department formally admitted that it had presented the case in error, eliminating its standing as a precedent.

Forty-six years after the harsh conditions, dislocated lives, and pain, the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 was signed by President Ronald Reagan. With it, the U.S. government formally acknowledged its mistake, apologized, and provided token financial restitution..."
Japanese Internment

Now you have no further grounds for denying his violation of the Constitution. Would you like to finally stop being a pussy and address this:

"Can you defend his actions? Can those possibly be the actions of a chief executive that YOU consider the best our country has ever had? If so, reconcile his villainy with your adulation."

I don't have to defend his actions. I'm waiting for the evidence that FDR violated the Constitution. Reagan is not the Supreme Court and his apology was just that, an apology, nothing about the Constitution.

 

[Cecilie1200]

1. "No one needs to defend FDR any more than they need to defend Lincoln."

The fact that I've posted several OPs with dozens of FDR's shortcomings casts the lie to your post.


2. "... 238 noted historians and authorities..."

Will you ever stand on your own two feet, and stop hiding behind Liberal academics?

Wanna go to your Mommy? She has your bottle heated up.

Yep, I believe that experts in their field might know more about a subject than I do, and worse, not one expert but 238 and that 238 was just from the last rating. What about the ratings since 1948 when FDR was rated third best president? Since 1948 that must be a lot of historians over a period of time that have rated FDR.
I realize that you claim to know more than the experts, but frankly, with your posts, you haven't convinced me. The mommy-bottle quote about says it all.

The so-called "experts" have all been trained to have the government approved views, and also handpicked by government toadies because they have the approved views. Uniformity of opinion among a gang of government minions is hardly surprising.

One of the many differences between leftists and conservatives is that leftists say, "You have a degree and job title. You are an expert, and I must believe you." Conservatives say, "Everyone talks out of their ass once in a while, even experts. Prove to me that this isn't that time for you."

 

[Cecilie1200]

You must get this information to the historians of America, every historical group in this country should know this new information. As soon as the historians know what you know they will stop rating FDR as America's greatest president and rate him, at least sixth worst, just below Bush. Don't waste a minute.

Most historians are already aware of this, and DON'T rate FDR as America's greatest President. Influential, yes. Greatest? In a pig's eye.

So who do historians rate as the greatest president?

I guess that depends on which historians you ask. They're certainly not a monolithic voting bloc by any means. It also depends largely on what their rating standards are. Many of them are looking more at influence and changing of the political landscape than they are on things like actually improving the lot of Americans or adhering to the laws and founding principles of the nation.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You answered your own charge that FDR violated the Constitution by declaring the Court declared the Executive order Counstitional Next case?

Thank you for verifying what he said about you: You're incapable of thinking for yourself. You're asked to present an argument defending FDR's action, and all you can come up with is, "Someone else said so!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

You know damn well they were not concentration camps. .

Of course they were. By definition they were. FD-fucking-R referred to them as such himself. You don't like that? Good, you shouldn't.

The term concentration camp did not have the same meaning during the war until the German concentration camps were discovered. Today the term has a special meaning that reminds people of something other that an internment camp. We call them internment camps because that is what they were. If you are going to use the term concentration camp to insult America at least have the balls to stand up for yourself when you get called out and caught. Don't try to crawl back under the rock.

Nice hairsplitting and glandular "thinking". Too bad for you that words mean what they mean, not what you "feel" they mean.

Concentration camp : a type of prison where large numbers of people who are not soldiers are kept during a war and are usually forced to live in very bad conditions (Merriam-Webster)

A place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. (OxfordDictionaries.com)

A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions. (American Heritage dictionary)

Need me to go on?

 

[gipper]

So what's your argument?

That FDR was an immoral, dishonest, irresponsible, power-hungry scumbag who violated our Constitution, robbed US citizens of their rights and property in a manner anathema to all our country stands for, climbed into bed with (among others) Communism, and saddled future generations with insupportable government obligations we cannot possibly pay for in perpetuity. Many posters have presented mountains of FACTS to support this argument and you have never ONCE attempted to address said FACTS. You merely fall back on logical fallacy like some futile mantra that can change the FACTS of history. You can't think for yourself and you won't even try because you know you don't have a leg to stand on.

That's opinion, but let's take one charge, that FDR violated the Constitution. When did FDR violate the Constituiton?

Asking that question only proves how uninformed you are. You need to educate yourself before posting on a subject.

 

[Camp]

Of course they were. By definition they were. FD-fucking-R referred to them as such himself. You don't like that? Good, you shouldn't.

The term concentration camp did not have the same meaning during the war until the German concentration camps were discovered. Today the term has a special meaning that reminds people of something other that an internment camp. We call them internment camps because that is what they were. If you are going to use the term concentration camp to insult America at least have the balls to stand up for yourself when you get called out and caught. Don't try to crawl back under the rock.

Nice hairsplitting and glandular "thinking". Too bad for you that words mean what they mean, not what you "feel" they mean.

Concentration camp : a type of prison where large numbers of people who are not soldiers are kept during a war and are usually forced to live in very bad conditions (Merriam-Webster)

A place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. (OxfordDictionaries.com)

A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions. (American Heritage dictionary)

Need me to go on?

Well ya, you need to go on. The definition from Merriam-Webster says "very bad conditions". Guess the arguement is what are "very bad conditions". Compared to other detention camps, internment camps, relocations camps and various other personel holding facilities of the era, American Japanese interment facilities are pretty high up on the scale of good treatment.
The definition from Oxford mentions inadequate facilities and a place to hold personel waiting for mass execution. Nope, that one doesn't fit.
American Heritage dictionary mentions harsh conditions, so once again the determination is open to what "harsh" conditions means. And once again, compaired to facilities of the era, Japanese internment camps weren't all that harsh.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Only the very naive believe this kind of revisionist history. The mountains of facts are not accepted as facts by historians and scholars. The sources used to establish "facts" are used the same way as sources for conspiracy theories and blatant political hack histories are used. They are unreliable, distorted, taken out of context, etc. One need only look up a few of the sources discribed as "mountains of facts" in this thread to discover the sources have in many cases been debunked long ago by multiple scholars and professional historians.

Which FACTS don't you believe? This is not "revisionist history," it's just plain history. The FACT is that FDR signed Executive Order 9906 and threw over 100,000 innocent people, the majority of them US CITIZENS into concentration camps. Barbed wire, armed guard towers, the whole works. Are you trying to say you don't believe this FACT? Are YOU trying to 'revise' history?

You know damn well they were not concentration camps. When speaking about WWII, concentration camps have a very specific definition. Concentration camps discribe places of horror where human beings were starved, tortured and murdered. Concentration camps were places were small children and grandmothers were treated like animals. So fuck you and your accusation that that kind of thing happened in this country by and to Americans. Everyone is in agreement that the Japanese internment camps were wrong. We also understand that the country was in a panic and feared that the Japanese had spys and sabateurs. We overreacted. We don't need assholes accusing us of doing something a thousand times worse in an effort to spread some negative propaganda and portraying us as being the same as the Nazi's. And anyhow, you are simply deflecting from having to defend the hack/conspiracy revisionist history you want to push, which is impossible to do with the shit sources used in this thread.

1. "You know damn well they were not concentration camps. When speaking about WWII, concentration camps have a very specific definition. Concentration camps discribe places of horror where human beings were starved, tortured and murdered."

a. Hitler's SS was actually taught by Stalin's minions how to construct and manage both concentration camps and mass murder.

b. FDR was informed as to the above.

c. FDR embraced Stalin.


2. While the power of Hegel, and belief in the state informed German world views, American history mitigated the effects of concentration camps.

But there is no denying that Roosevelt endorsed the use thereof.


3. Your post is but one more example of your slobbering defense of Roosevelt.

 

[Unkotare]

I thought the Issue was FDR's violations of the Constitution.

Ok, do you want to mention that:

"On November 10, 1983, Fred Korematsu`s conviction was overturned on the grounds that the federal government had withheld material evidence from the Supreme Court. In 2011, the justice department formally admitted that it had presented the case in error, eliminating its standing as a precedent.

Forty-six years after the harsh conditions, dislocated lives, and pain, the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 was signed by President Ronald Reagan. With it, the U.S. government formally acknowledged its mistake, apologized, and provided token financial restitution..."
Japanese Internment

Now you have no further grounds for denying his violation of the Constitution. Would you like to finally stop being a pussy and address this:

"Can you defend his actions? Can those possibly be the actions of a chief executive that YOU consider the best our country has ever had? If so, reconcile his villainy with your adulation."

I don't have to defend his actions. I'm waiting for the evidence that FDR violated the Constitution. Reagan is not the Supreme Court and his apology was just that, an apology, nothing about the Constitution.

If you take off those idol-worship blinders you may find it easier to read. You quoted my post but apparently couldn't read it. Typical liberal.

 

[regent]

Apparently you need help with the question, what were the violations of the Constitution by FDR? You might have answered with AAA and other New Deal measures that the Court declared unconstitutonal. Since Marbury it has sort of been a tradition in the US that the Supreme Court makes the decision about violations of the Constitution. Posters, nor other citizens don't decide, and personal attacks don't swing it either. But let's try another question, is a law or presidential action legal until the Supreme Court rules it illegal? If it is legal until the Court rules, has a law been broken in the interim? Sort of ex post facto?

 

[Agit8r]

It's too bad that this post goes in "History," because the FDR endeavors are largely responsible for the social breakdown we face today....

Our social fabric would no doubt be more to your liking if the Allies had lost the war:

Godwin's Law Review