The Most Mysterious Right

[AllieBaba]

Er..it's accepted fact, and we've discussed it here before.

"* Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%. (1)" http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

"A strong case can be made that the high rate of violent crimes, including murders, in Washington, D.C. is due in part to restrictions on the exercise of the right to bear arms. When potential victims are likely armed, criminals think twice about committing violent crimes: a gun in the hands of a law-abiding citizen is an excellent deterrent to crime. Across the Potomac River from Washington, D.C., Virginia does not have this horrific crime and murder rate. Yet, people in Virginia can buy, own, and even carry guns in public." http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul211.html


"The D.C. handgun ban . . . has failed miserably. This bill is demanded by the people of the United States," Souder said. "Only the District of Columbia prohibits a person from having a firearm assembled and loaded at home for the purpose of self-defense." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60034-2004Sep29.html

"That's right, DC prides itself in the fact that it has banned guns. Yet, strangely, crimes committed with firearms have increased, and there have already been 14 murders in DC since July 1." http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/crime_emergency.php

And before you start whining about the bias of those who have given the quotes, please keep in mind that they are responding to the fact that DC's crime rate exploded after banning guns, and DC continues to lead the country in gun-related crime.

 

[midcan5]

FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

* 373 people in Germany
* 151 people in Canada
* 57 people in Australia
* 19 people in Japan
* 54 people in England and Wales, and
* 11,789 people in the United States

(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

 

[AllieBaba]

And this proves what? That we have more crime? Wow. That's stupendous. That we have more people (exponentially)? Quite a point, that.

What it proves more than anything is the need for people to protect themselves from criminals who should be either in mental insititutes or jail, but which are in neither because the liberals believe in releasing the wackos at every turn.

 

[Shogun]

Did it? Prove it....


hehehehehehe...

 

[midcan5]

Washington's gun ban was meaningless, akin to banning drugs. Thirty years yet. But the question remains if the second amendment doesn't guarantee what the insecure think it does then time to get rid of handguns. Consider smoking in America today, that is now frowned on, time to grow up in another area too.

http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

statistics above are old.

 

[AllieBaba]

Washington's gun ban was meaningless, akin to banning drugs. Thirty years yet. But the question remains if the second amendment doesn't guarantee what the insecure think it does then time to get rid of handguns. Consider smoking in America today, that is now frowned on, time to grow up in another area too.

It was meaningless to the criminals, but not to their victims. As the numbers support. The fact is, despite the fact that they outlawed guns, you're still more likely to be killed by a gun in DC than anywhere else.

And the numbers took a gargantuan leap when they made it illegal for law abiding citizens to own guns. The leap was so huge that they STILL haven't been able to pull the rate down to what it was prior to 76.

 

[Gunny]

Washington's gun ban was meaningless, akin to banning drugs. Thirty years yet. But the question remains if the second amendment doesn't guarantee what the insecure think it does then time to get rid of handguns. Consider smoking in America today, that is now frowned on, time to grow up in another area too.

http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

statistics above are old.

So how long is it we have to wait for you to make even a mediocre argument here? I've seen NOTHING from you yet but worthless propaganda, complete with idealistic song lyrics from an unrealistic pansy.

When you come up with something logical, like how you are going to get rid of every singel firearm on Earth, let me know. Until then, if there is only one, I'm going to own the damned thing.

 

[William Joyce]

by Cass R. Sunstein

"To understand the problem, we must begin with the text of the Second Amendment: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.""

...

"In 1991, Warren E. Burger, the conservative chief justice of the Supreme Court, was interviewed on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour about the meaning of the Second Amendment's "right to keep and bear arms." Burger answered that the Second Amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud-- I repeat the word 'fraud'--on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." In a speech in 1992, Burger declared that "the Second Amendment doesn't guarantee the right to have firearms at all. " In his view, the purpose of the Second Amendment was "to ensure that the 'state armies'--'the militia'--would be maintained for the defense of the state."

It is impossible to understand the current Second Amendment debate without lingering over Burger's words. Burger was a cautious person as well as a conservative judge, and the chief justice of the Supreme Court is unlikely to offer a controversial position on a constitutional question in an interview on national television."

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e8997807-107b-461f-90d2-51a3ef91b508

Conservatives need to get used to this fact: abortion is not going away.

Liberals need to get used to this fact: gun are not going away.

Got it?

Good.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Meanwhile, Ill continue building my log compound in Montana while the rest of the country devolves into their foo foo feel good society.

 

[jillian]

Conservatives need to get used to this fact: abortion is not going away.

Liberals need to get used to this fact: gun are not going away.

Got it?

Good.

I agree.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

You know...it's one thing to be against guns. I don't agree with that at all, but I can (sort of) see how others would. Okay, great. So call for a constitutional amendment, and repeal the 2nd amendment.

But no, they have to go off and make up ludicrous claims that the 2nd was intended for state militias. Never mind all the quotes from the writings of the founders, we know they weren't enthusiastic gun nuts at all. Never mind the interpretation of the 2nd for the first 150-something years of our history, we know what they meant.

FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

* 373 people in Germany
* 151 people in Canada
* 57 people in Australia
* 19 people in Japan
* 54 people in England and Wales, and
* 11,789 people in the United States

(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

How many in Switzerland?

Also, could we break it down by individual counties? And then compare rural gun crimes (where per capita gun ownership is highest) and urban gun crimes? There's a lot more to gun crime than guns. Namely, cultural attitudes.

 

[Alpha1]

Are the courts to define who " the People " are, differently for one Amendment and claim "the People" is somebody else for the purpose of another Amendment.....
the left seems to into redefining what has been the common definition of phrases to fit their own views for some time....

Can't you just see the folks in the 1800's discussing marriage in the town hall...."Well sure Henry, men can marry men and women can marry their cute collie dogs if they want....thats what marriage is, freedom to choose....".....yeah, right...

 

[Alpha1]

You know...it's one thing to be against guns. I don't agree with that at all, but I can (sort of) see how others would. Okay, great. So call for a constitutional amendment, and repeal the 2nd amendment.

But no, they have to go off and make up ludicrous claims that the 2nd was intended for state militias. Never mind all the quotes from the writings of the founders, we know they weren't enthusiastic gun nuts at all. Never mind the interpretation of the 2nd for the first 150-something years of our history, we know what they meant.



How many in Switzerland?

Also, could we break it down by individual counties? And then compare rural gun crimes (where per capita gun ownership is highest) and urban gun crimes? There's a lot more to gun crime than guns. Namely, cultural attitudes.

The only thing Midcam's post proves is that we, in the US, have a portion of our citizens and residents that are very, very violent ....and it has nothing to do with guns, knives, poison or beatings. One way or another,
People kill...and that is the sad fact of it.....

 

[Gunny]

Since I am now the state militia, I am authorizing myself serveral new "toys."

 

[Alpha1]

Since I am now the state militia, I am authorizing myself serveral new "toys."

Keep 'em loaded Gunny...I do...

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Wonder if Ben Franklin and the boys ever had to deal with a bunch of cross dressing, transgendered loons protesting in the streets.

 

[JeffWartman]

Since I am now the state militia, I am authorizing myself serveral new "toys."

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Since I am now the state militia, I am authorizing myself serveral new "toys."

Sounds good to me.

 

[Gunny]

Keep 'em loaded Gunny...I do...

I've got a stack of bricks in the garage about as useful as an unloaded weapon.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14, and how does one debate the absurd?

Well, I try, but its hard when you dont actually respond to our responses.

FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year.

And...?

A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.

This Kellerman "statistic" was discredited years ago.
And its "42 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than to KILL in self-defense

Any other farces you'd care to lay down for us?