The need to make churches pay tax

[dblack]

No it's not.

I do not think anyone or any business should have special status in the United States. You do.

It's not special status, it's the tax code.

The tax code is replete with special status. That's its worst conceit.

Nothing special about it.

Well, I won't debate the meaning of "special" with you. But it clearly gives some organizations tax exempt status, and not others. That's the problem. You still haven't justified why that should be.

And you haven't justified taxing non-profits besides being cranky about someone you don't like not paying taxes

Yes I have. Several times. Laws based on identity group, rather than universal rights, undermine the rule of law and are antithetical to free society. Government that operates by handing out privileges rather than protecting rights is the enemy of freedom.

Your turn. Why should government approved religions get a break?

 

[Taz]

How does it violate the 1st if it applies to all religions?

How does it violate the 1st if the same things are granted to non-religious non-profits?

You have an axe to grind, stop trying to hide it. Again, very progressive of you.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

See that bold part?

The special tax treatment for religion is a law that respects establishments of religion by giving them special treatment

So Sharia law is allowed?

Again there is nothing in the Constitution that states the church and state must be separate.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

But then again if congress passes a law that is based on a particular religion that that is also a violation of the first amendment

So then Sharia Law should be allowed in the US. Then why isn't it? Why are there laws outlawing some Sharia practises like cutting off a hand for thievery?

Look up the 8th amendment

The one about the government not making any laws against any religion? Or is it another meaningless one?

 

[martybegan]

because you are talking about a business, not a non-profit.

Give up your profit and you can be one too!

Nonprofits ARE businesses. If they weren't they would not have to comply with OSHA laws, they would not have to pay workman's comp, they would not have to pay payroll taxes etc.

If they want to be nonprofit they need no special status all they have to do is ensure that their revenue does not exceed their expenses

Back to the "gotcha" moment attempt.

"So sorry you made a profit of $2!!! now we get to seize all your assets so Skull Pilot can get a boner and wank off to your demise!!!!"

I would have to pay taxes on the 2 dollars so a religious establishment should not get preferred status

Again, all this has to do with a combination of your own hate and a bit of jealousy.

What a baby you are.

All you have left is name calling.

You have lost the argument

After re-hashing the same points over and over name calling is the only new content being added by either party.

 

[martybegan]

To allow free exercise they lumped in Religious organizations as non profit as long as they follow the rules.

That doesn't "allow free exercise". It just gives government approved religions a perk.

It certainly allows free-er exercise.

So I guess you want to see St Patrick's Cathedral and most of the synagogues in Manhattan taken down due to property taxes right?

Because taxing them is what that would result in.

SO what?

You don't need a multi-million dollar property to freely practice religion

And your bias now blends into your envy.

Yes, because an office tower would be Soooo much better there...

Or you could do what anti-religious idiots like the Russians did, seize it and turn it into a museum.

It doesn't matter what the property is. Any legal religious entity owning real estate that does not pay real estate taxes is given special treatment by law which is a violation of the first amendment

No, they are being treated as any other non profit, as part of the States tax laws.

 

[martybegan]

Nope. and checking with several articles the For Profit mormon businesses like the mall do register as regular corporations, and thus pay all taxes.

You are confusing them with the non-profit holding company that handles the church related properties.

Two separate organizations.

Yep - missed it dinya?

The Mormon Church’s massive global business holdings are run as tax-free enterprises owned outright by the Church. Thus, the Mormon Church does not likely pay any federal, state or local taxes on all of its income and profits. The Mormon Church does not have to file a 990 IRS tax return like other charities, because of the religious exemption. There is absolutely no transparency from the Mormon Church.

The NFL (NFL Corporate only) is run similarly, but the individual teams pay taxes as separate corporations.

if the overall Mormon holding company is run as a not for profit, it is using the NFL's model and has nothing to do with Religion.

It's why holding companies are formed in the first place, it makes the overhead functions a non-profit enterprise.

 

[martybegan]

It certainly allows free-er exercise.

So I guess you want to see St Patrick's Cathedral and most of the synagogues in Manhattan taken down due to property taxes right?

Because taxing them is what that would result in.

SO what?

You don't need a multi-million dollar property to freely practice religion

And your bias now blends into your envy.

Yes, because an office tower would be Soooo much better there...

Or you could do what anti-religious idiots like the Russians did, seize it and turn it into a museum.

It doesn't matter what the property is. Any legal religious entity owning real estate that does not pay real estate taxes is given special treatment by law which is a violation of the first amendment

No, they are given a waiver due to their status as a non profit. No special treatment, it's available to any non-profit.

AND NO BUSINESS SHOULD BE GIVEN SPECIAL STATUS

CAPS DON"T MAKE YOU RIGHT.

 

[dblack]

C'mon, Marty - I answered your question, at least try to answer mine: why should religions get a break when it comes to taxes?

 

[ding]

That's called a balance.

No it's called profit.

Did you carryover a balance in your checking account? Was that your profit?

I am NOT a business.

Nonprofits are businesses.

MY business makes a profit every year when my revenues minus expenses are greater than ZERO.

If a nonprofit BUSINESS has revenue that surpasses its annual expenses then it too had made a profit that year

They aren't a business either.

Of course they are.

They collect revenue, pay employees, are subject to all OSHA laws, pay workers comp, payroll taxes, SUTA and FUTA taxes on payroll so they need not be exempt from any other taxes that business pay such as property and sales taxes.

If they want to be nonprofit all they have to do is ensure their annual revenue does not exceed their annual expenses.

Who owns this business?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

See that bold part?

The special tax treatment for religion is a law that respects establishments of religion by giving them special treatment

So Sharia law is allowed?

Again there is nothing in the Constitution that states the church and state must be separate.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

But then again if congress passes a law that is based on a particular religion that that is also a violation of the first amendment

So then Sharia Law should be allowed in the US. Then why isn't it? Why are there laws outlawing some Sharia practises like cutting off a hand for thievery?

Look up the 8th amendment

The one about the government not making any laws against any religion? Or is it another meaningless one?

Maybe you want to read that one again.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So the fact that Congress has made a law that gives religious institutions special status violates the first amendment since Congress shall pass no law respecting and Establishment of religion.

Treating churches like any other legal entity that earns an income is not in anyway prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

In fact I will argue that it does the opposite. Religious institutions must censor their clergy so they do not speak of political issues or support any candidates lest they lose their preferred status.

Now what if the tenets of a religion call for a certain code of ethics and the government or any of its elected officials violates those tenets? Why can't a clergymen voice those concerns?

So you see the first amendment is being violated in more than one way by the special legal status granted to religious institutions.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No it's called profit.

Did you carryover a balance in your checking account? Was that your profit?

I am NOT a business.

Nonprofits are businesses.

MY business makes a profit every year when my revenues minus expenses are greater than ZERO.

If a nonprofit BUSINESS has revenue that surpasses its annual expenses then it too had made a profit that year

They aren't a business either.

Of course they are.

They collect revenue, pay employees, are subject to all OSHA laws, pay workers comp, payroll taxes, SUTA and FUTA taxes on payroll so they need not be exempt from any other taxes that business pay such as property and sales taxes.

If they want to be nonprofit all they have to do is ensure their annual revenue does not exceed their annual expenses.

Who owns this business?

What does that matter?

 

[ding]

Did you carryover a balance in your checking account? Was that your profit?

I am NOT a business.

Nonprofits are businesses.

MY business makes a profit every year when my revenues minus expenses are greater than ZERO.

If a nonprofit BUSINESS has revenue that surpasses its annual expenses then it too had made a profit that year

They aren't a business either.

Of course they are.

They collect revenue, pay employees, are subject to all OSHA laws, pay workers comp, payroll taxes, SUTA and FUTA taxes on payroll so they need not be exempt from any other taxes that business pay such as property and sales taxes.

If they want to be nonprofit all they have to do is ensure their annual revenue does not exceed their annual expenses.

Who owns this business?

What does that matter?

Businesses have owners.

 

[Skull Pilot]

SO what?

You don't need a multi-million dollar property to freely practice religion

And your bias now blends into your envy.

Yes, because an office tower would be Soooo much better there...

Or you could do what anti-religious idiots like the Russians did, seize it and turn it into a museum.

It doesn't matter what the property is. Any legal religious entity owning real estate that does not pay real estate taxes is given special treatment by law which is a violation of the first amendment

No, they are given a waiver due to their status as a non profit. No special treatment, it's available to any non-profit.

AND NO BUSINESS SHOULD BE GIVEN SPECIAL STATUS

CAPS DON"T MAKE YOU RIGHT.

In this case yes they do.

No business, no person in the USA should be given preferential legal status.

But you want exactly that

 

[Skull Pilot]

I am NOT a business.

Nonprofits are businesses.

MY business makes a profit every year when my revenues minus expenses are greater than ZERO.

If a nonprofit BUSINESS has revenue that surpasses its annual expenses then it too had made a profit that year

They aren't a business either.

Of course they are.

They collect revenue, pay employees, are subject to all OSHA laws, pay workers comp, payroll taxes, SUTA and FUTA taxes on payroll so they need not be exempt from any other taxes that business pay such as property and sales taxes.

If they want to be nonprofit all they have to do is ensure their annual revenue does not exceed their annual expenses.

Who owns this business?

What does that matter?

Businesses have owners.

So do nonprofits they just call them founders instead.

 

[Skull Pilot]

That doesn't "allow free exercise". It just gives government approved religions a perk.

It certainly allows free-er exercise.

So I guess you want to see St Patrick's Cathedral and most of the synagogues in Manhattan taken down due to property taxes right?

Because taxing them is what that would result in.

SO what?

You don't need a multi-million dollar property to freely practice religion

And your bias now blends into your envy.

Yes, because an office tower would be Soooo much better there...

Or you could do what anti-religious idiots like the Russians did, seize it and turn it into a museum.

It doesn't matter what the property is. Any legal religious entity owning real estate that does not pay real estate taxes is given special treatment by law which is a violation of the first amendment

No, they are being treated as any other non profit, as part of the States tax laws.

How many times do I have to tell you that nonprofits should not have preferential treatment.

But the fact is Congress did indeed pass a law favoring religious establishments.

 

[ding]

They aren't a business either.

Of course they are.

They collect revenue, pay employees, are subject to all OSHA laws, pay workers comp, payroll taxes, SUTA and FUTA taxes on payroll so they need not be exempt from any other taxes that business pay such as property and sales taxes.

If they want to be nonprofit all they have to do is ensure their annual revenue does not exceed their annual expenses.

Who owns this business?

What does that matter?

Businesses have owners.

So do nonprofits they just call them founders instead.

A founder is not an owner.

So, who owns this business?

 

[JakeStarkey]

esp since they do not endorse the Johnson Amendment but Trump said he repealed it, it may be in the new tax cut , who knows.

Evangelical Faux Churches are popping up everywhere and they serve drinks under the pretense of "Communion". (we have on in our town)

Dan Johnson the Rep who just committed suicide used his home as a tax exempt church, not all were welcome, and they sold beer and drinks under the pretense of Communion, but he didn't quite sell beer, he lied and said it was a donation.

You can read and research the The Pope's Long Con , google it.

Since we can't maintain the division of Church and State, we need to start making churches pay tax, esp those Evan ones on TV.

I hope when the Dems get in and they will, they do this.

Faux preachers have abused this tax free status for far toooo long.

If churches want to be political, then they can give up their tax free status, yes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Of course they are.

They collect revenue, pay employees, are subject to all OSHA laws, pay workers comp, payroll taxes, SUTA and FUTA taxes on payroll so they need not be exempt from any other taxes that business pay such as property and sales taxes.

If they want to be nonprofit all they have to do is ensure their annual revenue does not exceed their annual expenses.

Who owns this business?

What does that matter?

Businesses have owners.

So do nonprofits they just call them founders instead.

A founder is not an owner.

So, who owns this business?

Doesn't matter. The business itself is a legal entity.

 

[Skull Pilot]

esp since they do not endorse the Johnson Amendment but Trump said he repealed it, it may be in the new tax cut , who knows.

Evangelical Faux Churches are popping up everywhere and they serve drinks under the pretense of "Communion". (we have on in our town)

Dan Johnson the Rep who just committed suicide used his home as a tax exempt church, not all were welcome, and they sold beer and drinks under the pretense of Communion, but he didn't quite sell beer, he lied and said it was a donation.

You can read and research the The Pope's Long Con , google it.

Since we can't maintain the division of Church and State, we need to start making churches pay tax, esp those Evan ones on TV.

I hope when the Dems get in and they will, they do this.

Faux preachers have abused this tax free status for far toooo long.

If churches want to be political, then they can give up their tax free status, yes.

That is also a violation of the first amendment.

So now we have 2 instances where the first is violated by giving special legal status to religious establishments.

 

[ding]

Who owns this business?

What does that matter?

Businesses have owners.

So do nonprofits they just call them founders instead.

A founder is not an owner.

So, who owns this business?

Doesn't matter. The business itself is a legal entity.

So it can be sold?

 

[ding]

This is too easy.