The need to make churches pay tax

[Skull Pilot]

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

AGain which is why we need to end ALL special status to the business of religion and charity

Why? I don't care if they get a break.

That's your problem.

I do,

No business should be exempt from any taxes. No person should be exempt from any taxes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

But they do single out specific religions. Who decides if a religion is "real" or not?

That's up to the agency in question, same as deciding what is profit or non profit.

No it's up to the government.

See the problem yet?

 

[martybegan]

Why not? The only reason people like you and Skull single them out is your antipathy towards religion. So basically you act like progressives in this case, and use government to do your dirty work.

Look you can pray all you want wherever you want but by giving religion a pass on taxes you are forcing your religion on everyone else because we have to pay for them to receive all the services that the taxes from which they are exempt are supposed to pay for.

There are those progressive JoeB like arguments again. And the individuals do pay taxes on their incomes, and on any items they purchase not related to their church work.

And what about all the items a church purchases?

What abut the and on which a church is built. What about the fact that no sales tax is paid on the materials a church uses?

If churches were 100% self sufficient I could agree but they are not everyone is made to support them by paying for the services they use that are provided by the public

Ah the old "owe society" thing.

And they are not "supported" by anything except the $$ of their parishioners. Tax exemptions are not support.

Of course they are.

Who pays for the fire department when the church catches fire? The parishioners?
Who pays the cops when they respond to a break in at a church? The parishioners?

No everyone is forced to pay for those protections of a religious establishment.

The church depends as much on services funded by tax dollars as anyone else

So i guess we deny police and fire protection to people who are too poor to pay taxes then as well right?

Dumb logic chain is dumb....

 

[DrLove]

That's a location map, it says nothing about them paying taxes on their non-church related income.

You're hopeless - I've given you enough in the way of links to prove that Mormons do not pay taxes on their for profit investments in the US and the best you can do is cherry pick for ill-informed responses.

See ya

 

[martybegan]

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

But they do single out specific religions. Who decides if a religion is "real" or not?

That's up to the agency in question, same as deciding what is profit or non profit.

No it's up to the government.

See the problem yet?

Nope. It's worked so far.

 

[martybegan]

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

AGain which is why we need to end ALL special status to the business of religion and charity

Why? I don't care if they get a break.

That's your problem.

I do,

No business should be exempt from any taxes. No person should be exempt from any taxes.

because you hate religion and want to use the government to punish it.

JoeBlow has a new sidekick.

 

[martybegan]

That's a location map, it says nothing about them paying taxes on their non-church related income.

You're hopeless - I've given you enough in the way of links to prove that Mormons do not pay taxes on their for profit investments in the US and the best you can do is cherry pick for ill-informed responses.

See ya

You haven't given jack squat.

 

[dblack]

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

But they do single out specific religions. Who decides if a religion is "real" or not?

That's up to the agency in question, same as deciding what is profit or non profit.

Yes. And it's just as wrong in my view. But in any case, non-profits aren't protected by the First Amendment. Religion is.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Look you can pray all you want wherever you want but by giving religion a pass on taxes you are forcing your religion on everyone else because we have to pay for them to receive all the services that the taxes from which they are exempt are supposed to pay for.

There are those progressive JoeB like arguments again. And the individuals do pay taxes on their incomes, and on any items they purchase not related to their church work.

And what about all the items a church purchases?

What abut the and on which a church is built. What about the fact that no sales tax is paid on the materials a church uses?

If churches were 100% self sufficient I could agree but they are not everyone is made to support them by paying for the services they use that are provided by the public

Ah the old "owe society" thing.

And they are not "supported" by anything except the $$ of their parishioners. Tax exemptions are not support.

Of course they are.

Who pays for the fire department when the church catches fire? The parishioners?
Who pays the cops when they respond to a break in at a church? The parishioners?

No everyone is forced to pay for those protections of a religious establishment.

The church depends as much on services funded by tax dollars as anyone else

So i guess we deny police and fire protection to people who are too poor to pay taxes then as well right?

Dumb logic chain is dumb....

Those poor people pay property taxes via their rent, they pay state and local sales taxes

The church doesn't

 

[Skull Pilot]

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

AGain which is why we need to end ALL special status to the business of religion and charity

Why? I don't care if they get a break.

That's your problem.

I do,

No business should be exempt from any taxes. No person should be exempt from any taxes.

because you hate religion and want to use the government to punish it.

JoeBlow has a new sidekick.

So not having special legal status is now a punishment?

If that's your definition of punishment then EVERY person and EVERY business is being punished NOT the churches.

 

[martybegan]

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

But they do single out specific religions. Who decides if a religion is "real" or not?

That's up to the agency in question, same as deciding what is profit or non profit.

Yes. And it's just as wrong in my view. But in any case, non-profits aren't protected by the First Amendment. Religion is.

To allow free exercise they lumped in Religious organizations as non profit as long as they follow the rules.

 

[martybegan]

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

AGain which is why we need to end ALL special status to the business of religion and charity

Why? I don't care if they get a break.

That's your problem.

I do,

No business should be exempt from any taxes. No person should be exempt from any taxes.

because you hate religion and want to use the government to punish it.

JoeBlow has a new sidekick.

So not having special legal status is now a punishment?

If that's your definition of punishment then EVERY person and EVERY business is being punished NOT the churches.

it's your reason for all this, protests about fairness aside.

 

[martybegan]

There are those progressive JoeB like arguments again. And the individuals do pay taxes on their incomes, and on any items they purchase not related to their church work.

And what about all the items a church purchases?

What abut the and on which a church is built. What about the fact that no sales tax is paid on the materials a church uses?

If churches were 100% self sufficient I could agree but they are not everyone is made to support them by paying for the services they use that are provided by the public

Ah the old "owe society" thing.

And they are not "supported" by anything except the $$ of their parishioners. Tax exemptions are not support.

Of course they are.

Who pays for the fire department when the church catches fire? The parishioners?
Who pays the cops when they respond to a break in at a church? The parishioners?

No everyone is forced to pay for those protections of a religious establishment.

The church depends as much on services funded by tax dollars as anyone else

So i guess we deny police and fire protection to people who are too poor to pay taxes then as well right?

Dumb logic chain is dumb....

Those poor people pay property taxes via their rent, they pay state and local sales taxes

The church doesn't

They pay taxes via payment to their staff as income.

and the churches pay sales taxes for items not related to Church activities.

 

[Skull Pilot]

AGain which is why we need to end ALL special status to the business of religion and charity

Why? I don't care if they get a break.

That's your problem.

I do,

No business should be exempt from any taxes. No person should be exempt from any taxes.

because you hate religion and want to use the government to punish it.

JoeBlow has a new sidekick.

So not having special legal status is now a punishment?

If that's your definition of punishment then EVERY person and EVERY business is being punished NOT the churches.

it's your reason for all this, protests about fairness aside.

No it's not.

I do not think anyone or any business should have special status in the United States. You do.

 

[dblack]

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

AGain which is why we need to end ALL special status to the business of religion and charity

Why? I don't care if they get a break.

That's your problem.

I do,

No business should be exempt from any taxes. No person should be exempt from any taxes.

because you hate religion and want to use the government to punish it.

JoeBlow has a new sidekick.

So not having special legal status is now a punishment?

If that's your definition of punishment then EVERY person and EVERY business is being punished NOT the churches.

Yep. The question becomes why do they want to punish non-religious organizations?

 

[Skull Pilot]

And what about all the items a church purchases?

What abut the and on which a church is built. What about the fact that no sales tax is paid on the materials a church uses?

If churches were 100% self sufficient I could agree but they are not everyone is made to support them by paying for the services they use that are provided by the public

Ah the old "owe society" thing.

And they are not "supported" by anything except the $$ of their parishioners. Tax exemptions are not support.

Of course they are.

Who pays for the fire department when the church catches fire? The parishioners?
Who pays the cops when they respond to a break in at a church? The parishioners?

No everyone is forced to pay for those protections of a religious establishment.

The church depends as much on services funded by tax dollars as anyone else

So i guess we deny police and fire protection to people who are too poor to pay taxes then as well right?

Dumb logic chain is dumb....

Those poor people pay property taxes via their rent, they pay state and local sales taxes

The church doesn't

They pay taxes via payment to their staff as income.

and the churches pay sales taxes for items not related to Church activities.

No their STAFF pays the taxes NOT the legal entity that is the church.

My staff pays taxes too. But so does the legal entity that is my business. MY business pays property taxes not only on the real estate but also on any other objects that are in the corporations name such as phones, computers, furniture etc. My corporation pays sales taxes on all supplies not for resale churches do not pay the taxes that every other business pays

 

[martybegan]

Why? I don't care if they get a break.

That's your problem.

I do,

No business should be exempt from any taxes. No person should be exempt from any taxes.

because you hate religion and want to use the government to punish it.

JoeBlow has a new sidekick.

So not having special legal status is now a punishment?

If that's your definition of punishment then EVERY person and EVERY business is being punished NOT the churches.

it's your reason for all this, protests about fairness aside.

No it's not.

I do not think anyone or any business should have special status in the United States. You do.

It's not special status, it's the tax code.

 

[martybegan]

Ah the old "owe society" thing.

And they are not "supported" by anything except the $$ of their parishioners. Tax exemptions are not support.

Of course they are.

Who pays for the fire department when the church catches fire? The parishioners?
Who pays the cops when they respond to a break in at a church? The parishioners?

No everyone is forced to pay for those protections of a religious establishment.

The church depends as much on services funded by tax dollars as anyone else

So i guess we deny police and fire protection to people who are too poor to pay taxes then as well right?

Dumb logic chain is dumb....

Those poor people pay property taxes via their rent, they pay state and local sales taxes

The church doesn't

They pay taxes via payment to their staff as income.

and the churches pay sales taxes for items not related to Church activities.

No their STAFF pays the taxes NOT the legal entity that is the church.

My staff pays taxes too. But so does the legal entity that is my business. I pay property taxes that are in the corporations name. My corporation pays sales taxes on all supplies not for resale churches do not pay the taxes that every other business pays

because you are talking about a business, not a non-profit.

Give up your profit and you can be one too!

 

[dblack]

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

But they do single out specific religions. Who decides if a religion is "real" or not?

That's up to the agency in question, same as deciding what is profit or non profit.

Yes. And it's just as wrong in my view. But in any case, non-profits aren't protected by the First Amendment. Religion is.

To allow free exercise they lumped in Religious organizations as non profit as long as they follow the rules.

That doesn't "allow free exercise". It just gives government approved religions a perk.

 

[dblack]

That's your problem.

I do,

No business should be exempt from any taxes. No person should be exempt from any taxes.

because you hate religion and want to use the government to punish it.

JoeBlow has a new sidekick.

So not having special legal status is now a punishment?

If that's your definition of punishment then EVERY person and EVERY business is being punished NOT the churches.

it's your reason for all this, protests about fairness aside.

No it's not.

I do not think anyone or any business should have special status in the United States. You do.

It's not special status, it's the tax code.

The tax code is replete with special status. That's its worst conceit.