The need to make churches pay tax

[ding]

and accomplishes your un-stated task of fucking over religion...

How progressive of you.

Back on that again, huh? Did you read the article about Huckabee's position? He's right.

Let me ask you this - why the exemption? Other than just currying favor with organized religion, what principled reason is there to exempt certain religious organizations from laws that everyone else must follow?

Because they could be construed as impacting free exercise.

The individuals pay taxes, just like in non profit orgs.

They are just another non profit, they just have to do less paperwork to prove it.

FYI you do not need a church or tax exempt property to practice religion

Where in the bible does it say you have to pray in a million dollar church on land that is exempt from taxes?

Bible has nothing to do with it. Society has decided to not tax not for profits when they do not for profit work.

But they DO make a profit. Anytime they carry any revenue over to following years that is making a profit.

That's called a balance.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Because they use all the same government services everyone else does.

And as individuals even Priests pay income taxes.

This is about taxing of the structures, which as non profits we as a society have decided not to tax them.

So what?

The legal entity of any church is no different that any other business and I think you'll find that was we evolve away from superstition that religion will lose it's preferred status that is a violation of the first amendment

Then remove it from the amendment.

Until then stop trying to use government for your own petty personal grudges like progressive do.

JoeB is not a role model.

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Back on that again, huh? Did you read the article about Huckabee's position? He's right.

Let me ask you this - why the exemption? Other than just currying favor with organized religion, what principled reason is there to exempt certain religious organizations from laws that everyone else must follow?

Because they could be construed as impacting free exercise.

The individuals pay taxes, just like in non profit orgs.

They are just another non profit, they just have to do less paperwork to prove it.

FYI you do not need a church or tax exempt property to practice religion

Where in the bible does it say you have to pray in a million dollar church on land that is exempt from taxes?

Bible has nothing to do with it. Society has decided to not tax not for profits when they do not for profit work.

But they DO make a profit. Anytime they carry any revenue over to following years that is making a profit.

That's called a balance.

No it's called profit.

 

[ding]

esp since they do not endorse the Johnson Amendment but Trump said he repealed it, it may be in the new tax cut , who knows.

Evangelical Faux Churches are popping up everywhere and they serve drinks under the pretense of "Communion". (we have on in our town)

Dan Johnson the Rep who just committed suicide used his home as a tax exempt church, not all were welcome, and they sold beer and drinks under the pretense of Communion, but he didn't quite sell beer, he lied and said it was a donation.

You can read and research the The Pope's Long Con , google it.

Since we can't maintain the division of Church and State, we need to start making churches pay tax, esp those Evan ones on TV.

I hope when the Dems get in and they will, they do this.

Faux preachers have abused this tax free status for far toooo long.

Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion.

Tax exempt Churches is socialism.

Says you. I say it is a religious organization being a religious organization.

 

[martybegan]

And as individuals even Priests pay income taxes.

This is about taxing of the structures, which as non profits we as a society have decided not to tax them.

So what?

The legal entity of any church is no different that any other business and I think you'll find that was we evolve away from superstition that religion will lose it's preferred status that is a violation of the first amendment

Then remove it from the amendment.

Until then stop trying to use government for your own petty personal grudges like progressive do.

JoeB is not a role model.

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

 

[ding]

Because they could be construed as impacting free exercise.

The individuals pay taxes, just like in non profit orgs.

They are just another non profit, they just have to do less paperwork to prove it.

FYI you do not need a church or tax exempt property to practice religion

Where in the bible does it say you have to pray in a million dollar church on land that is exempt from taxes?

Bible has nothing to do with it. Society has decided to not tax not for profits when they do not for profit work.

But they DO make a profit. Anytime they carry any revenue over to following years that is making a profit.

That's called a balance.

No it's called profit.

Did you carryover a balance in your checking account? Was that your profit?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Back on that again, huh? Did you read the article about Huckabee's position? He's right.

Let me ask you this - why the exemption? Other than just currying favor with organized religion, what principled reason is there to exempt certain religious organizations from laws that everyone else must follow?

Because they could be construed as impacting free exercise.

No moreso than any tax impacts freedom.

They are just another non profit, they just have to do less paperwork to prove it.

Why? Why should they have to do less paperwork to prove it?

Why not? The only reason people like you and Skull single them out is your antipathy towards religion. So basically you act like progressives in this case, and use government to do your dirty work.

Look you can pray all you want wherever you want but by giving religion a pass on taxes you are forcing your religion on everyone else because we have to pay for them to receive all the services that the taxes from which they are exempt are supposed to pay for.

There are those progressive JoeB like arguments again. And the individuals do pay taxes on their incomes, and on any items they purchase not related to their church work.

And what about all the items a church purchases?

What abut the and on which a church is built. What about the fact that no sales tax is paid on the materials a church uses?

If churches were 100% self sufficient I could agree but they are not everyone is made to support them by paying for the services they use that are provided by the public

 

[Skull Pilot]

FYI you do not need a church or tax exempt property to practice religion

Where in the bible does it say you have to pray in a million dollar church on land that is exempt from taxes?

Bible has nothing to do with it. Society has decided to not tax not for profits when they do not for profit work.

But they DO make a profit. Anytime they carry any revenue over to following years that is making a profit.

That's called a balance.

No it's called profit.

Did you carryover a balance in your checking account? Was that your profit?

I am NOT a business.

Nonprofits are businesses.

MY business makes a profit every year when my revenues minus expenses are greater than ZERO.

If a nonprofit BUSINESS has revenue that surpasses its annual expenses then it too had made a profit that year

 

[DrLove]

So the stores in that mall don't pay taxes on profits?

Bull.

Of course they do - unless its an LDS store in the US and then they don't.

https://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreLocationsView?catalogId=10557&langId=-1&storeId=715839595&krypto=v7W/GKGzWMAtyNIsfWx6A4zvVU+Bp32QKu/IKVLDzHFJRJ2p4GCjNLtg47/qeZnC/tpNKtvLke8Xlk9tGJOr1TYnfKRmlY4FFFcimFajbDTSyOzKp8n9qSUdrb9yzkZWfNEE+6jDmVpSgqp6dUYJ56NrXUX0ePlvimvDBmKd4ZY=&ddkey=https:SetCurrencyPreference

The church owns the mall - they then lease to merchants. They pay no taxes on those profits in the US. You obviously have much to learn about the Mormon Church. Come to Utah or Idaho (second per capita in Mormon population) sometime.

 

[ding]

Bible has nothing to do with it. Society has decided to not tax not for profits when they do not for profit work.

But they DO make a profit. Anytime they carry any revenue over to following years that is making a profit.

That's called a balance.

No it's called profit.

Did you carryover a balance in your checking account? Was that your profit?

I am NOT a business.

Nonprofits are businesses.

MY business makes a profit every year when my revenues minus expenses are greater than ZERO.

If a nonprofit BUSINESS has revenue that surpasses its annual expenses then it too had made a profit that year

They aren't a business either.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So what?

The legal entity of any church is no different that any other business and I think you'll find that was we evolve away from superstition that religion will lose it's preferred status that is a violation of the first amendment

Then remove it from the amendment.

Until then stop trying to use government for your own petty personal grudges like progressive do.

JoeB is not a role model.

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

AGain which is why we need to end ALL special status to the business of religion and charity

 

[Skull Pilot]

But they DO make a profit. Anytime they carry any revenue over to following years that is making a profit.

That's called a balance.

No it's called profit.

Did you carryover a balance in your checking account? Was that your profit?

I am NOT a business.

Nonprofits are businesses.

MY business makes a profit every year when my revenues minus expenses are greater than ZERO.

If a nonprofit BUSINESS has revenue that surpasses its annual expenses then it too had made a profit that year

They aren't a business either.

Of course they are.

They collect revenue, pay employees, are subject to all OSHA laws, pay workers comp, payroll taxes, SUTA and FUTA taxes on payroll so they need not be exempt from any other taxes that business pay such as property and sales taxes.

If they want to be nonprofit all they have to do is ensure their annual revenue does not exceed their annual expenses.

 

[dblack]

So what?

The legal entity of any church is no different that any other business and I think you'll find that was we evolve away from superstition that religion will lose it's preferred status that is a violation of the first amendment

Then remove it from the amendment.

Until then stop trying to use government for your own petty personal grudges like progressive do.

JoeB is not a role model.

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

But they do single out specific religions. Who decides if a religion is "real" or not?

 

[martybegan]

Because they could be construed as impacting free exercise.

No moreso than any tax impacts freedom.

They are just another non profit, they just have to do less paperwork to prove it.

Why? Why should they have to do less paperwork to prove it?

Why not? The only reason people like you and Skull single them out is your antipathy towards religion. So basically you act like progressives in this case, and use government to do your dirty work.

Look you can pray all you want wherever you want but by giving religion a pass on taxes you are forcing your religion on everyone else because we have to pay for them to receive all the services that the taxes from which they are exempt are supposed to pay for.

There are those progressive JoeB like arguments again. And the individuals do pay taxes on their incomes, and on any items they purchase not related to their church work.

And what about all the items a church purchases?

What abut the and on which a church is built. What about the fact that no sales tax is paid on the materials a church uses?

If churches were 100% self sufficient I could agree but they are not everyone is made to support them by paying for the services they use that are provided by the public

Ah the old "owe society" thing.

And they are not "supported" by anything except the $$ of their parishioners. Tax exemptions are not support.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then remove it from the amendment.

Until then stop trying to use government for your own petty personal grudges like progressive do.

JoeB is not a role model.

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

But they do single out specific religions. Who decides if a religion is "real" or not?

The government that's who

 

[martybegan]

So the stores in that mall don't pay taxes on profits?

Bull.

Of course they do - unless its an LDS store in the US and then they don't.

https://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreLocationsView?catalogId=10557&langId=-1&storeId=715839595&krypto=v7W/GKGzWMAtyNIsfWx6A4zvVU+Bp32QKu/IKVLDzHFJRJ2p4GCjNLtg47/qeZnC/tpNKtvLke8Xlk9tGJOr1TYnfKRmlY4FFFcimFajbDTSyOzKp8n9qSUdrb9yzkZWfNEE+6jDmVpSgqp6dUYJ56NrXUX0ePlvimvDBmKd4ZY=&ddkey=https:SetCurrencyPreference

The church owns the mall - they then lease to merchants. They pay no taxes on those profits in the US. You obviously have much to learn about the Mormon Church. Come to Utah or Idaho (second per capita in Mormon population) sometime.

That's a location map, it says nothing about them paying taxes on their non-church related income.

 

[martybegan]

Then remove it from the amendment.

Until then stop trying to use government for your own petty personal grudges like progressive do.

JoeB is not a role model.

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

AGain which is why we need to end ALL special status to the business of religion and charity

Why? I don't care if they get a break.

 

[martybegan]

Then remove it from the amendment.

Until then stop trying to use government for your own petty personal grudges like progressive do.

JoeB is not a role model.

We are already violating the first amendment so we do not have to remove anything from the constitution we simply have to repeal and stop passing laws that favor religious establishments

In your wrong opinion, maybe.

Again, your views are clouded by your anti-religious bigotry.

And I am a lapsed Catholic at best.

So this you don't think passing laws that give religious institutions special status is contradicts this sentence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The very act of passing laws that exempt religious institutions is indeed passing a law that favors an establishment of religion.

Only if it singles out specific religions. That is establishment. Plus they use the same rules for non-sectarian non-profits.

But they do single out specific religions. Who decides if a religion is "real" or not?

That's up to the agency in question, same as deciding what is profit or non profit.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No moreso than any tax impacts freedom.

Why? Why should they have to do less paperwork to prove it?

Why not? The only reason people like you and Skull single them out is your antipathy towards religion. So basically you act like progressives in this case, and use government to do your dirty work.

Look you can pray all you want wherever you want but by giving religion a pass on taxes you are forcing your religion on everyone else because we have to pay for them to receive all the services that the taxes from which they are exempt are supposed to pay for.

There are those progressive JoeB like arguments again. And the individuals do pay taxes on their incomes, and on any items they purchase not related to their church work.

And what about all the items a church purchases?

What abut the and on which a church is built. What about the fact that no sales tax is paid on the materials a church uses?

If churches were 100% self sufficient I could agree but they are not everyone is made to support them by paying for the services they use that are provided by the public

Ah the old "owe society" thing.

And they are not "supported" by anything except the $$ of their parishioners. Tax exemptions are not support.

Of course they are.

Who pays for the fire department when the church catches fire? The parishioners?
Who pays the cops when they respond to a break in at a church? The parishioners?

No everyone is forced to pay for those protections of a religious establishment.

The church depends as much on services funded by tax dollars as anyone else

 

[dblack]

Exemption Requirements Section 501(c)(3) Organizations | Internal Revenue Service

How is that not "law respecting an establishment of religion"?