The New Appeal Of Communism

[Desperado]

Only a full blown idiot would consider communism a good thing.
No where in the world has communism ever been successful!

 

[bripat9643]

And now we get to it, you seek to strip from commoners the ability to own property. Property rights are the basis of all rights, so you seek to place humanity in slavery to the ruling elite.

I seek to stop ruling elites from amassing huge fortunes from revenue and profit-generating activities which add no value. When parasites like Morgan or Rockefeller create massive generational fortunes by indebting an economy to itself at an exponential rate, the resulting polarization of political power enslaves the majority of productive workers to a tiny oligarchy of parasitic scum and their useful idiots.

How did Rockefeller "indebt the economy to itself?" What does that even mean? Rockefeller created a cheap source of light that everyone could afford, and then he created the fuel for the automobile - one of the greatest boons to mankind ever conceived. How does that make him a "parasite?" If anyone is a parasite, it's all the government toadies that have tried to destroy men like Rockefeller.

 

[georgephillip]

Your ideas come from Karl Marx.

That you are too ignorant to grasp that others are aware of the source of your idiocy notwithstanding

"W]hat Smith and Marx shared, critically, was the belief that it was entirely possible for an activity to be revenue- and profit-generative without actually contributing to the creation of value. There was no paradox. (Or rather, for Marx at any rate, the paradox was not that banks made profits without producing value, but that industrial capitalists allowed them to do so.)
http://store.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Killing-The-Host_PDF_V7.pdf (p.36)

 

[bripat9643]

Your ideas come from Karl Marx.

That you are too ignorant to grasp that others are aware of the source of your idiocy notwithstanding

"W]hat Smith and Marx shared, critically, was the belief that it was entirely possible for an activity to be revenue- and profit-generative without actually contributing to the creation of value. There was no paradox. (Or rather, for Marx at any rate, the paradox was not that banks made profits without producing value, but that industrial capitalists allowed them to do so.)
http://store.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Killing-The-Host_PDF_V7.pdf (p.36)

If they don't create value, then why does anyone pay for them?

 

[georgephillip]

Tell me, does inflation compound?

The 3% under 7 years of Obama, has the added 21 cents to the dollar. or 34 cents?

When Obama seized power, a widget cost $1. A year later that widget cost $1.03 - inflation. But the next year, what did the widget cost? $1.0609 and the next year? $1.093 and the year after? $1.13

Inflation compounds. If interest does not, the wealth is stripped from the public - which is what you seek, all wealth in the hands of the absolute rulers.

2^63???
Does inflation compound exponentially?

http://store.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Killing-The-Host_PDF_V7.pdf

"The mathematical calculation of interest-bearing debt growing in this way over long periods was greatly simplified in 1614 by the Scottish mathematician John Napier’s invention of logarithms (literally 'the arithmetic of ratios,' logos in Greek).

"Describing the exponential growth of debt in his second book, Robdologia (1617), Napier illustrated his principle by means of a chessboard on which each square doubled the number assigned to the preceding one, until all sixty-four squares were doubled – that is, 2^63 after the first doubling."

"Three centuries later the 19th century German economist, Michael Flürscheim, cast this exponential doubling and redoubling principle into the form of a Persian proverb telling of a Shah who wished to reward a subject who had invented chess, and asked what he would like.

"The man asked only 'that the Shah would give him a single grain of corn, which was to be put on the first square of the chess-board, and to be doubled on each successive square,' until all sixty-four squares were filled with grain.

"Upon calculating 64 doublings of each square from the preceding, starting from the first gain and proceeding 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 and so on.

"At first the compounding of grain remained well within the physical ability of the kingdom to pay, even after twenty squares were passed.

"But by the time the hypothetical chessboard was filled halfway, the compounding was growing by leaps and bounds. The Shah realized that this he had promised 'an amount larger than what the treasures of his whole kingdom could buy.'

"The moral is that no matter how much technology increases humanity’s productive powers, the revenue it produces will be overtaken by the growthf debt multiplying at compound interest."

 

[georgephillip]

How did Rockefeller "indebt the economy to itself?" What does that even mean? Rockefeller created a cheap source of light that everyone could afford, and then he created the fuel for the automobile - one of the greatest boons to mankind ever conceived.

Rockefeller acquired control of 95% of US oil pipelines and refineries by bribing corrupt politicians, crushing competition, and making secret deals with the railroads. He should have died in federal prison.

 

[bripat9643]

How did Rockefeller "indebt the economy to itself?" What does that even mean? Rockefeller created a cheap source of light that everyone could afford, and then he created the fuel for the automobile - one of the greatest boons to mankind ever conceived.

Rockefeller acquired control of 95% of US oil pipelines and refineries by bribing corrupt politicians, crushing competition, and making secret deals with the railroads. He should have died in federal prison.

He never had control of more than 85%. He also never bribed any politicians, and there's no law against crushing your competition. At the time there was no law against making secrete deals with other companies either. So what you're saying is you don't give a damn what the law says, you want to put the man in prison simply because you don't like his success. You're a classic Stalinist. A world run by the likes of you would look just like the former Soviet Union, Gulags and all.

The price of Kerosene dropped every year that Rockefeller ran Standard Oil. The company was a blessing to humanity. It's turds like you that destroy the world and create hells like the USSR. I'll take his kind over your kind any day of the week.

You still haven't explained how you "indebt the economy to itself."

 

[georgephillip]

You still haven't explained how you "indebt the economy to itself."

Rockefeller and Morgan regarded compound interest to be the Eighth Wonder of the World because it permitted oligarchs to indebt the economy to itself at an exponential rate. The principle has been known for thousands of years, and I would be very surprised if you are ignorant of its utility to a few worthless parasites. When savings and credit are lent out to become other people's debts without helping them earn the money to pay them off, politicians face a choice between saving bankers and bondholders or the economy. Naturally, politicians save the oligarchs, as recent economic events have proven once again.

 

[bripat9643]

You still haven't explained how you "indebt the economy to itself."

Rockefeller and Morgan regarded compound interest to be the Eighth Wonder of the World because it permitted oligarchs to indebt the economy to itself at an exponential rate. The principle has been known for thousands of years, and I would be very surprised if you are ignorant of its utility to a few worthless parasites. When savings and credit are lent out to become other people's debts without helping them earn the money to pay them off, politicians face a choice between saving bankers and bondholders or the economy. Naturally, politicians save the oligarchs, as recent economic events have proven once again.

So simply loaning money is "indebting the economy to itself?"

 

[georgephillip]

The price of Kerosene dropped every year that Rockefeller ran Standard Oil. The company was a blessing to humanity. It's turds like you that destroy the world and create hells like the USSR. I'll take his kind over your kind any day of the week.

"He hired substitute soldiers to avoid Civil War combat.

"Although he was a fervent abolitionist, Rockefeller did not take up arms when the Civil War broke out in 1861.

"While his youngest brother was wounded at Chancellorsville and Cedar Mountain, Rockefeller received an exemption for being the primary means of supporting his family and hired substitute soldiers in his stead, a common practice during the war. 'I wanted to go in the army and do my part,' he said. 'But it was simply out of the question. There was no one to take my place. We were in a new business, and if I had not stayed it must have stopped—and with so many dependent on it.'

"Rockefeller’s commodity business profited handsomely from the Civil War and provided the necessary capital for his entrance into the oil business."
10 Things You May Not Know About John D. Rockefeller - History in the Headlines
Sound familiar?

 

[georgephillip]

You still haven't explained how you "indebt the economy to itself."

Rockefeller and Morgan regarded compound interest to be the Eighth Wonder of the World because it permitted oligarchs to indebt the economy to itself at an exponential rate. The principle has been known for thousands of years, and I would be very surprised if you are ignorant of its utility to a few worthless parasites. When savings and credit are lent out to become other people's debts without helping them earn the money to pay them off, politicians face a choice between saving bankers and bondholders or the economy. Naturally, politicians save the oligarchs, as recent economic events have proven once again.

So simply loaning money is "indebting the economy to itself?"

Loaning money at compound interest is exactly that.

 

[georgephillip]

The price of Kerosene dropped every year that Rockefeller ran Standard Oil

Can you prove that?

 

[bripat9643]

The price of Kerosene dropped every year that Rockefeller ran Standard Oil. The company was a blessing to humanity. It's turds like you that destroy the world and create hells like the USSR. I'll take his kind over your kind any day of the week.

"He hired substitute soldiers to avoid Civil War combat.

"Although he was a fervent abolitionist, Rockefeller did not take up arms when the Civil War broke out in 1861.

"While his youngest brother was wounded at Chancellorsville and Cedar Mountain, Rockefeller received an exemption for being the primary means of supporting his family and hired substitute soldiers in his stead, a common practice during the war. 'I wanted to go in the army and do my part,' he said. 'But it was simply out of the question. There was no one to take my place. We were in a new business, and if I had not stayed it must have stopped—and with so many dependent on it.'

"Rockefeller’s commodity business profited handsomely from the Civil War and provided the necessary capital for his entrance into the oil business."
10 Things You May Not Know About John D. Rockefeller - History in the Headlines
Sound familiar?

So how does that prove that Standard Oil didn't benefit society?

 

[georgephillip]

The price of Kerosene dropped every year that Rockefeller ran Standard Oil. The company was a blessing to humanity. It's turds like you that destroy the world and create hells like the USSR. I'll take his kind over your kind any day of the week.

"He hired substitute soldiers to avoid Civil War combat.

"Although he was a fervent abolitionist, Rockefeller did not take up arms when the Civil War broke out in 1861.

"While his youngest brother was wounded at Chancellorsville and Cedar Mountain, Rockefeller received an exemption for being the primary means of supporting his family and hired substitute soldiers in his stead, a common practice during the war. 'I wanted to go in the army and do my part,' he said. 'But it was simply out of the question. There was no one to take my place. We were in a new business, and if I had not stayed it must have stopped—and with so many dependent on it.'

"Rockefeller’s commodity business profited handsomely from the Civil War and provided the necessary capital for his entrance into the oil business."
10 Things You May Not Know About John D. Rockefeller - History in the Headlines
Sound familiar?

So how does that prove that Standard Oil didn't benefit society?

Meet the Rockefellers

"The passage of the Interstate Commerce Act (1887) and the Sherman Antitrust Act (1890) began to address some of the anti-competitive practices used byJDR, Sr., and other Robber Barons to dominate sectors of the economy.

"In 1902, Ida Tarbell, writing in McClure’s Magazine, published a series of 19 articles that exposed Standard Oil’s unscrupulous practices. Backed by Pres. Theodore Roosevelt – who had named Tarbell and her fellow McClure’s journalists 'muck-rakers' – the U.S. attorney general sued Standard Oil in 1906 over restraint of trade.

"In 1911, the Supreme Court unanimously found Standard Oil to be a monopoly and broke it into a series of 'smaller' companies, including Amoco, Chevron Conoco and ExxonMobil."

 

[Rshermr]

The price of Kerosene dropped every year that Rockefeller ran Standard Oil. The company was a blessing to humanity. It's turds like you that destroy the world and create hells like the USSR. I'll take his kind over your kind any day of the week.

"He hired substitute soldiers to avoid Civil War combat.

"Although he was a fervent abolitionist, Rockefeller did not take up arms when the Civil War broke out in 1861.

"While his youngest brother was wounded at Chancellorsville and Cedar Mountain, Rockefeller received an exemption for being the primary means of supporting his family and hired substitute soldiers in his stead, a common practice during the war. 'I wanted to go in the army and do my part,' he said. 'But it was simply out of the question. There was no one to take my place. We were in a new business, and if I had not stayed it must have stopped—and with so many dependent on it.'

"Rockefeller’s commodity business profited handsomely from the Civil War and provided the necessary capital for his entrance into the oil business."
10 Things You May Not Know About John D. Rockefeller - History in the Headlines
Sound familiar?

So how does that prove that Standard Oil didn't benefit society?

Meet the Rockefellers

"The passage of the Interstate Commerce Act (1887) and the Sherman Antitrust Act (1890) began to address some of the anti-competitive practices used byJDR, Sr., and other Robber Barons to dominate sectors of the economy.

"In 1902, Ida Tarbell, writing in McClure’s Magazine, published a series of 19 articles that exposed Standard Oil’s unscrupulous practices. Backed by Pres. Theodore Roosevelt – who had named Tarbell and her fellow McClure’s journalists 'muck-rakers' – the U.S. attorney general sued Standard Oil in 1906 over restraint of trade.

"In 1911, the Supreme Court unanimously found Standard Oil to be a monopoly and broke it into a series of 'smaller' companies, including Amoco, Chevron Conoco and ExxonMobil."

Uh oh, now you did it. Unless they ignore you (highly doubtful) the cons will tell you that 1. Standard oil was never a monopoly and 2. There is nothing wrong with monopoly anyway. And 3.Monopoly only happens if only one company exists in an industry. And 4., actual monopolys are all created by government.
Always the same, if they come out to play, as you probably know. Comical.

 

[Indeependent]

Nope...it's where they gave mortgages and foreclosed on the mortgagees within 4-6 months.
You are living in a parallel universe.

Why would a bank foreclose on a mortgage unless the mortgagee was not paying?

Why would a bank give a janitor a 200K mortgage?
It was covered by 60 Minutes about 10 years and Crosslands was found guilty.

They did that because the federal government pressured banks into giving mortgages to people who couldn't pay them.

No blue Lining for these Jumbo mortgages.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Crosslands was not pressured to approve these mortgages.

 

[bripat9643]

Why would a bank foreclose on a mortgage unless the mortgagee was not paying?

Why would a bank give a janitor a 200K mortgage?
It was covered by 60 Minutes about 10 years and Crosslands was found guilty.

They did that because the federal government pressured banks into giving mortgages to people who couldn't pay them.

No blue Lining for these Jumbo mortgages.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Crosslands was not pressured to approve these mortgages.

Of course they were. Every bank was pressured to grant mortgages to borrowers with sub prime credit ratings. That's the only way they could meet their CRA mandate.

 

[bripat9643]

The price of Kerosene dropped every year that Rockefeller ran Standard Oil. The company was a blessing to humanity. It's turds like you that destroy the world and create hells like the USSR. I'll take his kind over your kind any day of the week.

"He hired substitute soldiers to avoid Civil War combat.

"Although he was a fervent abolitionist, Rockefeller did not take up arms when the Civil War broke out in 1861.

"While his youngest brother was wounded at Chancellorsville and Cedar Mountain, Rockefeller received an exemption for being the primary means of supporting his family and hired substitute soldiers in his stead, a common practice during the war. 'I wanted to go in the army and do my part,' he said. 'But it was simply out of the question. There was no one to take my place. We were in a new business, and if I had not stayed it must have stopped—and with so many dependent on it.'

"Rockefeller’s commodity business profited handsomely from the Civil War and provided the necessary capital for his entrance into the oil business."
10 Things You May Not Know About John D. Rockefeller - History in the Headlines
Sound familiar?

So how does that prove that Standard Oil didn't benefit society?

Meet the Rockefellers

"The passage of the Interstate Commerce Act (1887) and the Sherman Antitrust Act (1890) began to address some of the anti-competitive practices used byJDR, Sr., and other Robber Barons to dominate sectors of the economy.

"In 1902, Ida Tarbell, writing in McClure’s Magazine, published a series of 19 articles that exposed Standard Oil’s unscrupulous practices. Backed by Pres. Theodore Roosevelt – who had named Tarbell and her fellow McClure’s journalists 'muck-rakers' – the U.S. attorney general sued Standard Oil in 1906 over restraint of trade.

"In 1911, the Supreme Court unanimously found Standard Oil to be a monopoly and broke it into a series of 'smaller' companies, including Amoco, Chevron Conoco and ExxonMobil."

Uh oh, now you did it. Unless they ignore you (highly doubtful) the cons will tell you that 1. Standard oil was never a monopoly and 2. There is nothing wrong with monopoly anyway. And 3.Monopoly only happens if only one company exists in an industry. And 4., actual monopolys are all created by government.
Always the same, if they come out to play, as you probably know. Comical.

You almost got it right. There is everything wrong with a government enforced monopoly. However, that's the only kind that ever occurs. And, yes, a monopoly occurs only if there is one company in an industry. That's what the word means. "mono" = "one, single"

Try to learn a little English before you delve into this subject again.

 

[bripat9643]

The price of Kerosene dropped every year that Rockefeller ran Standard Oil. The company was a blessing to humanity. It's turds like you that destroy the world and create hells like the USSR. I'll take his kind over your kind any day of the week.

"He hired substitute soldiers to avoid Civil War combat.

"Although he was a fervent abolitionist, Rockefeller did not take up arms when the Civil War broke out in 1861.

"While his youngest brother was wounded at Chancellorsville and Cedar Mountain, Rockefeller received an exemption for being the primary means of supporting his family and hired substitute soldiers in his stead, a common practice during the war. 'I wanted to go in the army and do my part,' he said. 'But it was simply out of the question. There was no one to take my place. We were in a new business, and if I had not stayed it must have stopped—and with so many dependent on it.'

"Rockefeller’s commodity business profited handsomely from the Civil War and provided the necessary capital for his entrance into the oil business."
10 Things You May Not Know About John D. Rockefeller - History in the Headlines
Sound familiar?

So how does that prove that Standard Oil didn't benefit society?

Meet the Rockefellers

"The passage of the Interstate Commerce Act (1887) and the Sherman Antitrust Act (1890) began to address some of the anti-competitive practices used byJDR, Sr., and other Robber Barons to dominate sectors of the economy.

"In 1902, Ida Tarbell, writing in McClure’s Magazine, published a series of 19 articles that exposed Standard Oil’s unscrupulous practices. Backed by Pres. Theodore Roosevelt – who had named Tarbell and her fellow McClure’s journalists 'muck-rakers' – the U.S. attorney general sued Standard Oil in 1906 over restraint of trade.

"In 1911, the Supreme Court unanimously found Standard Oil to be a monopoly and broke it into a series of 'smaller' companies, including Amoco, Chevron Conoco and ExxonMobil."

Yes, we all know how the federal government persecuted Rockefeller and Standard Oil at the behest of his former competitors. Your automatic assumption that the government has a legitimate case only shows what a bootlicking toady you are. I'm sure you also believe Stalin was justified in send millions of innocent people . . er, I mean reactionaries and saboteurs to the Gulag.

the bottom line is that Standard Oil reduced the price of Kerosene to $0.05/gal and made it cheap enough for virtually everyone to afford.

 

[Indeependent]

Why would a bank give a janitor a 200K mortgage?
It was covered by 60 Minutes about 10 years and Crosslands was found guilty.

They did that because the federal government pressured banks into giving mortgages to people who couldn't pay them.

No blue Lining for these Jumbo mortgages.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Crosslands was not pressured to approve these mortgages.

Of course they were. Every bank was pressured to grant mortgages to borrowers with sub prime credit ratings. That's the only way they could meet their CRA mandate.

Nope...This was a specific act by Crosslands Savings Bank in various Black African neighborhoods.
And you keep ignoring the fact that the CRA mandate still had standards for Lending.
Standards that were violated willy nilly.
The other argument I love hearing from Conservatives is that Whites were invited along for the CRA ride...they weren't, but got approved also to raise Fees and Commissions.
Anyway, this is my last post on this topic in this Thread.