The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Hollie]

This guy is all wet.

Jordan was intended to be a separate entity as per article 25 of the Mandate document.

There was not to be any transfer of territory to a so called Jewish state. The "Jewish national home" was Palestinian citizenship for Jews who immigrated to Palestine along with all the other people who already lived there.

There was no transfer of territory. You need to try and keep up.

 

[rylah]

This guy is all wet.

Jordan was intended to be a separate entity as per article 25 of the Mandate document.

There was not to be any transfer of territory to a so called Jewish state. The "Jewish national home" was Palestinian citizenship for Jews who immigrated to Palestine along with all the other people who already lived there.

Article 25 includes Jordan with "the rest of the territory of Palestine",
only postponing certain provisions, but no land was transferred
to the Kingdom of Trans Jordan.

Palestinian citizenship already referred to the
legal title for the re-constitution of a Jewish state.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Article 25 includes Jordan with "the rest of the territory of Palestine",
only postponing certain provisions, but no land was transferred
to the Kingdom of Trans Jordan.

Palestinian citizenship already referred to the
legal title for the re-constitution of a Jewish state.

Do you have links for that shit?

 

[rylah]

Do you have links for that shit?

No need to curse,
the very document you referred,
destroys the Arab supremacist narrative.

"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for re-constituting their national home in that country."

League Of Nations Mandate For Palestine As A Jewish State

JEWISH RIGHTS are spelled clearly. The League Of Nations Mandate states: in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

israelforever.org

(QUESTION)
Was sovereignty entitled to an Arab state - ever?
Was there any legal land transfer to Jordan as you always claim?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yom HaZikaron: Remembering Yochanan Stahl and Salia Zohar, murdered and savaged by Arabs in 1931

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

No need to curse,
the very document you referred,
destroys the Arab supremacist narrative.

"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for re-constituting their national home in that country."

League Of Nations Mandate For Palestine As A Jewish State

JEWISH RIGHTS are spelled clearly. The League Of Nations Mandate states: in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

israelforever.org

(QUESTION)
Was sovereignty entitled to an Arab state - ever?
Was there any legal land transfer to Jordan as you always claim?

It says "in Palestine" not in a Jewish state.

 

[Sixties Fan]

It says "in Palestine" not in a Jewish state.

That is a joke.

"In Palestine" is where ancient Judea stood.

Syria Palestina is the name the Romans chose to use to destroy the Jewish memory of their homeland. It never worked.

The British used Palestine instead of Israel for pure Christian disrespect for Jews and their rights to their homeland.

The Arabs could not care less about the name of the region they migrated to. From the time Mohammad created Islam, Arabs have known that the area was the Jewish Homeland.

It was ok.......unless the Jews wanted autonomy on their homeland.

Keep making me laugh.

 

[rylah]

It says "in Palestine" not in a Jewish state.

Grasping at straws.

Palestine is titled with Jewish national re-constitution,
and that also includes Jordan with the "rest of Palestine".

Was there any legal land transfer
to Jordan, or any Arab state,
as you always claim?

 

[rylah]

Rabbi Yehudah Bivas - Binyamin Herzl link to Rabbi Hayyim Ben-Attar
and the role of Moroccan Jewry in initiating the Zionist revolution

| Lesson series by Rabbi Mosheh Elharar

What You see here is the picture of Rabbi Yehudah Bibas Z"l, the grandson of Rabbi Hayyim Ben-Attar HaKadosh, who had only daughters.

Some take in the nonsense, maybe intentionally that he had neither sons nor daughters, this is incorrect. For example here is the book about Rabbi Meir Yehudah Getz, and on the 1st page of the book (after all the forewards), the 1st line: "HaRav Meir Yehudah Getz, born 15 Av 5684 (1924), to his parents HaRav Tzemah Getz and Rabbanit Simhah Mas'oudah Getz, descendants of Rabbi Hayyim Ben-Attar, author of the renowned commentary 'Or HaHayyim' HaKadosh".

Here in the book is not written how he's specifically linked to Or HaHayyim HaKadosh. I have asked a great friend of mine, Dr. Shlomah Sheish, who lives in the village of El'azar in Gush 'Atzion, who was also a regular doctor, surgeon, obstetrician, expert in pediatrics, then an expert in Chinese and various other treatment methods he brought to the country. Dr. Shlomah Sheish is a student of HaRav Getz, the Rabbi of the Kotel (Western Wall), I've asked him about the link to the descendants of HaKaDosh Rabbi Hayyim Ben-Attar? He says he has always heard from him that he was 7th generation, son after son from the daughter Rabbi Hayiim Ben-Attar. His daughter Rahel, he's the 7th generation, descendant of Rabbi 'Or HaHayyim' HaKadosh.

Dr Shleish told me, now I call the Gaon HaRav Yisrael Avihay, the chair of the Kabalist Yeshivah 'Beit El' in the ancient city of Jerusalem, he took the chair after HaRav Getz who was the chair of the Yeshivah prior to him, and he confirmed, especially on the day of his Hillulah. And HaRav says 'look at his gravestone, it's not as at the beginning of the book, it says HaRav Meir Yehudah Getz' he says, 'incorrect, look at his gravestone - HaRav Meir Yehudah Nahum Hayyim Getz, why Hayyim? Hayyim is after the name of 'Or HaHayyim' HaKadosh Rabbi Hayyim Ben-Attar, he's 7th generation to Or HaHayyim HaKadosh.

And Rabbi Yehudah Bivas, the son of HaRav Shmuel Bivas, passed away 120 years ago, and he following his grandfather saw the horrific troubles done to his grandfather 'Or HaHayyim' HaKadosh, so he left and ran away from Sali to Gibraltar and established there a Yeshivah in Gibraltar.

This started from his father, HaRav Shmuel Bivas then passed to his son, who later was in Livorno and went around Europe, why? Following his grandfather, who said what? The moment trouble rises abroad to leave everything.

The Torah portion 'Balak' is on the week of the passing of 'Or HaHayyim HaKadosh, let's see what he writes. Bil'am wants to curse Israel that they don't merit a kingdom, that the kingdom doesn't last long for the nation of Israel. Anf of course the sages say in Gmarah, that the blessings of Bil'am are what he wanted to curse Israel. What does he bless Israel with, yet reluctantly -

"What I see for them is not yet,
What I behold will not be soon:
A star rises from Jacob,
A scepter comes forth from Israel;"

- BaMidbar 24​

Meaning, "A star rises from Jacob", says Or HaHayyim HaKadosh, that the redemption of the nation of Israel can be as a big star, as in suddenly appearing in the heavens, which is a sped-up miraculous redemption, like the exodus of Egypt, everything this manner is redemption sped-up. This is when the nation of Israel merits ideal unity and love, no despise or neglect, ideal respect for each other, the redemption is sped-up, up as a star that rises in the heavens suddenly and miraculously.

But the manner of redemption can be different, sped-up how?
"A scepter (also tribe) comes forth from Israel", meaning, Or HaHayyim HakaDosh says, "that one tribe rises from Israel in a normal worldly way, through the nature". Through the nature, means the need to go reach the UN, and reach the world nations, get their agreement, and the need for war, need for the establishment of military and state and great devotion to Torah.

Rabbi 'Amram Abourabiyah who had a great devotion to Torah, used to say to his sons and grandsons who are all themselves devoted to Torah, but this is not enough, to establish the kingdom, says Or HaHayyim HaKadosh - everything through nature.

To establish the kingdom in Israel, there is a need also for science, need for wisdom, of course, Torah has to lead everything, therefore the Rabbi's father advised him on what to do, he told him to study, and he became one of the greatest atomic physicists in the world, all by the support of the father HaRav 'Amram Abourabiyah, the way of Rabbi Or HaHayyim Ben-Attar, who says it's all through the nature.

And following Or HaHayyim HaKadosh, following Rabbi Yehudah Bivas, who came to Yaffo, he was 50 years before Herzl and had an influence by leaving a detailed political plan. And HaRav Yehudah Elkal'ey who quotes him in his books, in Zemlin Yugoslavia.

Professor Zeev Vilnaee says this as well, HaRav Yehudah Bivas together with HaRav David Ben-Shim'on came to Yaffo -and they are the pioneers of the establishment of Eretz Yisrael, before the 1st and the 2nd Aliyah and the rest. They prepared the infrastructure for all the future Aliyah to Eretz Yisrael.

This is Rabbi Yehudah Bivas the grandson of Rabbi Hayyim Ben-Attar, following the grandfather. And HaRav David Yehudah Shim'on who came from Rabat, he writes the book 'Sha'ar HeHatzer' (the gate of the court'). The student of Rabbi Yehudah Bivas is Rabbi Aharon Shloush, who builds the 1st house in Yaffo and all of Tel Aviv, villages, and cities today in Gush Dan region started from Rabbi Yehudah Bivas.

His students, Rabbi Avraham Shloush, and Rabbi Aharon Shloush had purchased 800 dunams. How does Rabbi David Ben Shim'on start the book 'Sha'ar HeHatzer'? "Everyone must buy land in Eretz Yisrael if they want a part in the world to come".

As I've taught in the lesson about Ya'akov Avinu A"H, "and purchased the parcel of the field" (Beresheet 33), Ya'akov Avinu the first thing in Eretz Yisrael, purchases a parcel of land - there's trouble, leave the exile, purchase a dunam of land in Eretz Yisrael, and the parcel of the field in Eretz Yisrael brings the person to his part in the world to come, this is Torah portion 'Vayishlah' in the Zohar, and this how the book 'Sha'ar HeHatzer' starts, in which 613 differences between Eretz Yisrael and abroad.

And I'm wondering how some wise students in our generation try to be pedantic about certain traditions but not this great thing - that the time has come, the nation of Israel must return to the land of Israel, build it, and we need Torah in devotion, and army and state and all the rest. How does one leave the teaching of all these sages and all who followed Or HaHayyim HaKadosh.

We should know about Rabbi 'Amram Abourabiyah, what he wrote and taught daily - Or HaHayyim HaKadosh was his table book, and he translated it into action. I've given separate lessons on how he merited in his holy spirit to envision all the redemption of the nation of Israel. He wrote 5 months before it happened, how the soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces liberate Jerusalem - and we, with the help of HaShem, in the merit of these sages, that we learn from their ways, learn their teaching to merit the full redemption quickly in our days amen!

Morocco and the cause of Zionism

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN, and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: The Government of Palestine 'v' Independent State of Palestine
※→ P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,

I cannot believe that you have not mastered this yet.

It says "in Palestine" not in a Jewish state.

(COMMENT)
.
At the direction of the Supreme Council - Principal Allied Powers, as one of the decisions made at San Remo (APR 1920) the military establishment of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) was closed in mid-1920 and immediately replaced by the Civil Administration (JUL 1920). In AUG 1920 the Palestine Order in Council and then the Mandate for Palestine were issued. Both were driven by the decisions made at San Remo.

"Palestine" was technically the short title for the Territory to which the Mandate Applied. The Government of Palestine was technically the British Civil Administration over Palestine.

The Jewish State was the term of description used by the UN Special Committee for Palestine (UNSCOP) used in the Recommendation and adopted in November 1947 by the General Assembly.

After December 1998, the designation "Palestine" replaced the phrase"Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the non-member observer in the UN; but, did not change PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinian People. As an outcome of the adoption of A/RES/6719 DEC 2012, the term State of Palestine. The standalone term "Palestine" has become very flexible.

But with the exception of the Gaza Strip and Area "A" nowhere else, west of the Jordan River, can be considered sovereign or independent in the true sense of a self-governing territory. That is to say that, without changing the meaning or definition of a sovereign state, it means a political "state that possesses an independent existence, being complete in itself, without being merely part of a larger whole to whose government it is subject." (Blacks Law Dictionary, 7 ed, pg 1523)

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jewish State was the term of description used by the UN Special Committee for Palestine (UNSCOP) used in the Recommendation and adopted in November 1947 by the General Assembly.

Ah yes, the Recommendation that was rejected and never implemented by the Security Council. Didn't happen.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN, and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: The Government of Palestine 'v' Independent State of Palestine
※→ P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,

I cannot believe that you have not mastered this yet.


(COMMENT)
.
At the direction of the Supreme Council - Principal Allied Powers, as one of the decisions made at San Remo (APR 1920) the military establishment of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) was closed in mid-1920 and immediately replaced by the Civil Administration (JUL 1920). In AUG 1920 the Palestine Order in Council and then the Mandate for Palestine were issued. Both were driven by the decisions made at San Remo.

"Palestine" was technically the short title for the Territory to which the Mandate Applied. The Government of Palestine was technically the British Civil Administration over Palestine.

The Jewish State was the term of description used by the UN Special Committee for Palestine (UNSCOP) used in the Recommendation and adopted in November 1947 by the General Assembly.

After December 1998, the designation "Palestine" replaced the phrase"Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the non-member observer in the UN; but, did not change PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinian People. As an outcome of the adoption of A/RES/6719 DEC 2012, the term State of Palestine. The standalone term "Palestine" has become very flexible.

But with the exception of the Gaza Strip and Area "A" nowhere else, west of the Jordan River, can be considered sovereign or independent in the true sense of a self-governing territory. That is to say that, without changing the meaning or definition of a sovereign state, it means a political "state that possesses an independent existence, being complete in itself, without being merely part of a larger whole to whose government it is subject." (Blacks Law Dictionary, 7 ed, pg 1523)

Most Respectfully,
R

That was before Palestine became a state in 1924. That changed the rules of the game.

 

[rylah]

Ah yes, the Recommendation that was rejected and never implemented by the Security Council. Didn't happen.

Jewish national re-constitution is not a recommendation,
it's international law, binding on the US constitution as the law of the land.

 

[Sixties Fan]

That was before Palestine became a state in 1924. That changed the rules of the game.

Extra !!! Extra! Palestine became a State in 1924 according to Tinmore's fantasy brain.

Extra!

 

[rylah]

That was before Palestine became a state in 1924. That changed the rules of the game.

Rules don't change when Arab supremacists lose the argument.
Like the "land transfer" you claim then always fail to present.

Was there any reference to any Arab state by 1924?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Jewish national re-constitution is not a recommendation,
it's international law, binding on the US constitution as the law of the land.

The US Constitution has nothing to do with Palestine.

 

[Sixties Fan]

That was before Palestine became a state in 1924. That changed the rules of the game.

To get the cobwebs out of your brain, here is what happened in 1924 within the Mandate for Palestine

1924-1932	Fourth Aliyah, mainly from Poland.
1924	Benjamin Frankel starts Hillel Foundation. The first Hillel House opens at the University of Illinois, offers religious and social services.
1924	Caliphate officially abolished.
May 11, 1924	The first conference of the General Zionist movement is held in Jerusalem.
May 14, 1924	Ultra-Orthodox Jews found an agricultural settlement between Ramat Gan and Petah Tikva: Bnei- Brak.
1924	The United States Congress passes the Immigration Restriction Act, which effectively bans immigration to the U.S. from Asia and Eastern Europe.
July 1924	While in prison, Hitler begins work on Mein Kampf.

Timeline of British Rule in Palestine (1918-1947)

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rules only change as you keep losing the argument.
As that "land transfer," you always claim but fail to present.

So was any Arab nation or a state even mentioned by 1924?

Indeed, by the League of Nations.

 

[P F Tinmore]

To get the cobwebs out of your brain, here is what happened in 1924 within the Mandate for Palestine

​

1924-1932	Fourth Aliyah, mainly from Poland.
1924	Benjamin Frankel starts Hillel Foundation. The first Hillel House opens at the University of Illinois, offers religious and social services.
1924	Caliphate officially abolished.
May 11, 1924	The first conference of the General Zionist movement is held in Jerusalem.
May 14, 1924	Ultra-Orthodox Jews found an agricultural settlement between Ramat Gan and Petah Tikva: Bnei- Brak.
1924	The United States Congress passes the Immigration Restriction Act, which effectively bans immigration to the U.S. from Asia and Eastern Europe.
July 1924	While in prison, Hitler begins work on Mein Kampf.

Timeline of British Rule in Palestine (1918-1947)

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

The Mandate was not Palestine.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Indeed, by the League of Nations.

No link. No evidence. No fact of history.

Pay attention as to what happened in 1924.

Would you like to try any other year?