The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[elektra]

* Japanese rule in Korea, Taiwan, and Manchuria, though not up to Western standards, was certainly better than Soviet rule, Chinese Communist rule, and Nazi rule. Anyone with adequate knowledge on this subject who had to choose to live in one of the above areas would choose to live under Japanese rule in a heartbeat, hands down.

Yet, today, these people hate the Japanese with a burning passion.

Nobody would choose to live under Japanese rule. That is why there was war everywhere the Japanese invaded.

Anyone would choose Japanese rule? Sure as a teenage girl it would be better to be raped by dozens of Japanese soldiers?

At the time, Mao Tse Tung was still fighting a war to win china? Hence no rule by communist chinese.

USSR and Germany. I have not heard that children were raped by thousands of soldiers.

You really dont know a dam thing. So you found a book that found a boy that managed to live okay. That story pales in comparison to the hell the Japanese inflicted on the population as a whole.

 

[elektra]

Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…” He later publicly declared “…it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

Except, of course, Eisenhower was never told we were going to use an Atomic bomb. That was top secret. Eisenhower gives two different versions, if not three or four.

Later, in order to beat the Democrats, did he change the story? After Stimson died?

Stimson never told the Vice President about the bomb, why would Stimson devuldge a top secret to a General that was well below the title of the vice president?

Eisenhower I say lied and his contradictions in his books confirms that.

 

[Unkotare]

The person you are trying to convince is yourself.

View attachment 273942
Convince you of a fact, I would have more luck trying to convince the neighbor's cat. Some discussions are only for the intelligent.

You took a pic of some books. That is just so sad.

Not as sad at your frustration for not being able to burn them.....

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

 

[Unkotare]

...

I have many facts. If you actually engaged in discussion you would find anything you cut/paste from the internet I have the book the cherry picked internet quote came from. If I dont have the book I will buy it.....

Aren't you special?

 

[HenryBHough]

So many liberals so pissed off that they aren't forced to talk Jap and worship an emperor. But they claim President Trump is an emperor yet they loath him. He's what? The wrong color?

 

[Unkotare]

...
Yet, today, these people hate the Japanese with a burning passion.......

Something of an exaggeration.

 

[Unkotare]

.....

USSR and Germany. I have not heard that children were raped by thousands of soldiers.......

Time for you to go buy some more books. This time about the Soviet army immediately after Germany fell. Off you go.

 

[Unkotare]

So many liberals so pissed off that they aren't forced to talk Jap [sic] and worship an emperor. ....

Do you really think that was a possible outcome of WWII? Are you really that ignorant and foolish?

 

[Cosmos]

The nuclear bombs saved hundred of thousands of American troops and hundreds of thousands of Japanese. Plus, it possibly prevented Japan from suffering a half century of Soviet domination.

 

[elektra]

Time for you to go buy some more books. This time about the Soviet army immediately after Germany fell. Off you go.

I have those books, what would you like to know.

 

[elektra]

Something of an exaggeration.

Your proof?

 

[elektra]

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

Not as sad at your frustration for not being able to burn them....

You denigrated the use of books, I replied to your statement in proper context.

 

[mikegriffith1]

For those who think that Imperial Japan was “just like” Nazi Germany, I suggest you read Israeli historian Dr. Ben-Ami Shillony’s book The Jews and the Japanese (Charles E. Tuttle Publishing, 1991). Shillony, a professor of Japanese history at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, devotes an entire chapter to documenting the fact that during WW II the Japanese not only saved thousands of Jews from the reach of the Nazis, over the protests of the Nazi government, but also ensured that Jews living in China were unmolested, among other friendly and protective actions (chapter 21). The Nazi government protested numerous times about Japan’s pro-Jewish policies, but Japan’s leaders ignored their protests.

By the way, here is what Dr. Shillony says about our decision to nuke Japan:

One may question the moral justification of dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945. They were dropped when Japan had already been devastated by massive conventional bombing and was on the brink of collapse, when its government was sending urgent appeals through Moscow to negotiate for peace, and when there was no longer any danger of a Japanese attack on other countries. The dropping of the atomic bombs was a clear case of indiscriminate killing, the type of behavior that the Allies had always condemned. It even enraged some of President Harry S. Truman’s top advisers. Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, the president’s representative on the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wrote in his diary at the time, “It is not a bomb. It is not an explosive. It is a poisonous thing that kills people by its deadly radioactive action. . . . In being the first to use it, we have adopted an ethical standard common to barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war by destroying women and children.” (page/location 1166, Kindle Edition)​

 

[Unkotare]

Something of an exaggeration.

Your proof?

Many, many, many people from all those countries who do not harbor the hatred you want to dramatize. There are many, many, many people in all those countries who see the value of moving forward together in mutual peace and benefit while by no means forgetting or overlooking the past.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ya and all you have are opinion pieces while I have ACTUAL Government documents.

But not from ACTUAL top military>>>

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.… in being the first to use it, we…adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”

&&&

The commanding general of the US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.

&&&
Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., Commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…”




&&&

Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan…”


&&&


Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…” He later publicly declared “…it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

&&&


Even the famous “hawk” Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.



~S~

And again all you have are memoirs I have ACTUAL Japanese intercept and ACTUAL Japanese Government documents that PROVE you are wrong. All you have are Opinions and not a single document to back up your moronic claim.

 

[Unkotare]

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

Not as sad at your frustration for not being able to burn them....

You denigrated the use of books....

I have done no such thing. I ridiculed your silly self-importance over the incredible feat of owning a few books. You are an amazing scholar.

 

[Unkotare]

Ya and all you have are opinion pieces while I have ACTUAL Government documents.

But not from ACTUAL top military>>>

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.… in being the first to use it, we…adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”

&&&

The commanding general of the US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.

&&&
Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., Commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…”




&&&

Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan…”


&&&


Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…” He later publicly declared “…it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

&&&


Even the famous “hawk” Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.



~S~

All of which and more has been presented to the doddering old fool many times before on many other threads.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ya and all you have are opinion pieces while I have ACTUAL Government documents.

But not from ACTUAL top military>>>

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.… in being the first to use it, we…adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”

&&&

The commanding general of the US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.

&&&
Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., Commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…”




&&&

Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan…”


&&&


Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…” He later publicly declared “…it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

&&&


Even the famous “hawk” Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.



~S~

All of which and more has been presented to the doddering old fool many times before on many other threads.

Again yu have never presented a single official document EVER.

 

[elektra]

For those who think that Imperial Japan was “just like” Nazi Germany, I suggest you read Israeli historian Dr. Ben-Ami Shillony’s book The Jews and the Japanese (Charles E. Tuttle Publishing, 1991). Shillony, a professor of Japanese history at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, devotes an entire chapter to documenting the fact that during WW II the Japanese not only saved thousands of Jews from the reach of the Nazis, over the protests of the Nazi government, but also ensured that Jews living in China were unmolested, among other friendly and protective actions (chapter 21). The Nazi government protested numerous times about Japan’s pro-Jewish policies, but Japan’s leaders ignored their protests.

By the way, here is what Dr. Shillony says about our decision to nuke Japan:

One may question the moral justification of dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945. They were dropped when Japan had already been devastated by massive conventional bombing and was on the brink of collapse, when its government was sending urgent appeals through Moscow to negotiate for peace, and when there was no longer any danger of a Japanese attack on other countries. The dropping of the atomic bombs was a clear case of indiscriminate killing, the type of behavior that the Allies had always condemned. It even enraged some of President Harry S. Truman’s top advisers. Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, the president’s representative on the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wrote in his diary at the time, “It is not a bomb. It is not an explosive. It is a poisonous thing that kills people by its deadly radioactive action. . . . In being the first to use it, we have adopted an ethical standard common to barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war by destroying women and children.” (page/location 1166, Kindle Edition)​

Yet, the Japanese continued to kill Americans. 900 Americans on July 30th. Thus far, Mikegriffith1 has not been able to refute on of my facts? Why is that. If Japan was beaten and it is so easy to prove, why does the author of this OP explain how Japan was still killing 100's of Americans? Over 900 on July 30th of 1945.

Competely beaten, unable to life a finger to defend themselves but able to kill 100's of Americans.

Another startling fact, posted by those who claim Russia won the war, was even though Japan was completely beaten, Japan fought Russia until August 20th!

Months after the OP and everyone else claims Japan is beaten, they are still fighting. Care for me to go on?

 

[sparky]

Ya and all you have are opinion pieces while I have ACTUAL Government documents.

But not from ACTUAL top military>>>

The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It

Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.… in being the first to use it, we…adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”

&&&

The commanding general of the US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.

&&&
Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., Commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…”




&&&

Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan…”


&&&


Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…” He later publicly declared “…it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”

&&&


Even the famous “hawk” Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.



~S~

All of which and more has been presented to the doddering old fool many times before on many other threads.

Again yu have never presented a single official document EVER.

I just did

so, we're 1 and 0

~S~