The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Unkotare]

Where do you get that idea?

Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.…

US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.”


Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan

Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., Commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…”

Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…

Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.”

~S~

The simpletons who can't help but hide from the central moral issue of this matter won't even bother to read these pertinent quotes. They have been presented with this evidence many, many times by now.

 

[Unkotare]

You indulge your emotions like a little girl.

You meanwhile make excuses for inexcusable actions.

Of the two of us, only you have done such a thing.

Really? so excuses the murder of millions is acceptable? Cause that is what you are doing.

Quote, liar?

You keep claiming we are wrong when we point out Japan killed 10 million people, you keep claiming we got it wrong.

When did I say that, liar? Do you have anything to say that doesn't rely on lying about what I have or have not said, old fool?

 

[McFury]

Immorality doesn't exist in military mentality.
It's either kill or get killed.
A fight to Survive .
The rest is all BS.
End of story.

 

[Unkotare]

Immorality doesn't exist in military mentality.
It's either kill or get killed.
A fight to Survive .
The rest is all BS.
End of story.

That's not what Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy said. How long have you been an admiral?

 

[mikegriffith1]

I agree with what former MacArthur aide and Far East expert Lester Brooks said about what Truman should have done when he learned that Emperor Hirohito wanted to end the war as soon as possible, namely, that he should have opened up a diplomatic channel with the Japanese to end the war:

The Soviet move, less than 72 hours after the Hiroshima bombing, was staggering. None knew this better than [Foreign Minister] Togo, who, through the Japanese ambassador in Moscow [Ambassador Naotake Sato], had been trying since Germany’s surrender in May to get the Soviets to act as peace mediator with the Allies.​

The Americans knew this also, because the U.S. had cracked the Japanese code and was diligently monitoring and reading Japanese communications. One of the most important messages of the war was Togo’s cable of July 12 to Sato in Moscow: “. . . it is His Majesty’s heart’s desire to see the swift termination of the war. In the Greater East Asia War, however, as long as America and England insist on unconditional surrender our country has no alternative but to see it through in an all-out effort for the sake of survival and the honor of the homeland.” Though this flat statement should have caused the U.S. to make quick and direct diplomatic efforts to end the war at that point, no action was taken to capitalize on this golden opportunity. (Behind Japan’s Surrender: The Secret Struggle that Ended an Empire, New York: McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1968, pp. 15-16)
​

So Truman knew from Togo’s July 12 cable, at least three weeks before Hiroshima, that the emperor himself wanted to end the war swiftly, and that the only obstacle was the demand for unconditional surrender. From other sources—such as Grew, McCloy, Forrestal, and Leahy—Truman knew that Japan’s main concern about unconditional surrender was the status of the emperor in such a surrender.

Truman ended up agreeing to allow the emperor and the imperial court to remain in place anyway, but he did not give the Japanese any indication that he would do so until after he had nuked Hiroshima and after the Soviets had invaded. If he had done this immediately after learning of Togo’s July 12 cable, as so many of his advisers urged him to do, Japan might well have surrendered in late July, and hundreds of thousands of innocent lives would have been saved. Providing clarification on the emperor’s status would have simultaneously given the moderates powerful ammunition against the hardliners and would have deprived the hardliners of their main argument against surrender.

Keep in mind that even after the Japanese had been nuked twice and the Soviets had attacked them, they named retention of the emperor as their one condition for accepting the Potsdam Declaration's surrender terms. Debate raged in the White House over this condition, but, finally, finally, finally, Truman listened to all the advisers who had long been telling him that the Japanese would fight to the death if we did not agree to retain the emperor.

However, Truman almost undid his good decision by entrusting his Japan-hating Secretary of States, James Byrnes, with crafting the language of our reply to the Japanese surrender offer. In his reply, Byrnes implied that we would not depose the emperor, but he did not expressly state this, and his verbiage left room for an alternative interpretation. The Japanese hardliners seized on this ambiguity and for a few hours it looked like they might be able to continue to block surrender. Fortunately, however, the Japanese Foreign Ministry was getting indications through back channels that Truman was not going to depose the emperor, and all of this created a situation that enabled the emperor to intervene and order the military to surrender.

Perhaps we should keep in mind that, either because of surreal incompetence or the influence of the Soviet spies and Soviet sympathizers in his administration, Truman was the one who handed over China to the Communists, which resulted in the deaths of millions of Chinese and the subjugation of the Chinese people to totalitarian rule to this day.

 

[elektra]

How do you figure that? Internal Japanese records make it clear that it was the Soviet invasion that finally pushed the hardliners into agreeing to surrender. This has been documented in numerous studies.

This is my 3rd time asking for you to link to one of these numerous studies. Should be easy for you, you refer to them frequently.

Simply stating, "study says so", is lazy if not outright lying.

mikegriffith1 has posted many times since I requested some sort of link or inkling that there is a study which supports his claim. He has not produced a study. Maybe he is lazy, yet he has posted a couple of essays withing this thread and others? Maybe there are no studies? Or the studies do not state what is claimed.

Either way, it is a lousy author of an OP the makes a statement and refuses to link to his source. Yes, this is an opinion piece, not facts. There are many errors and contradictions that discredits the OP. Failing to link or even offer the name of the study, mikegriffith1 is using to substantiate the many claims made in the OP, shows this OP has no credibility.

 

[elektra]

First off, he has presented you with documented statements by senior American military leaders that using the atomic bomb was unnecessary and wrong.

Second, **so what** if you have "official government documents"??? Government documents are often inaccurate and incomplete, and sometimes they're misleading and even fraudulent.

For the third time I am pointing out your failure!

You contradict yourself and thus discredit your post, your opinion, the premise of this OP.

You can not claim "senior american military leader" made statements that are documented that indicate the Atomic bombing of Japan was unnecessary and wrong, and then state, "Government documents are often inaccurate and incomplete and sometimes they're misleading and even fraudulent."

You have thus stated, that at one point, American Military Leaders were misleading and fraudulent? The source is thus discredited. You can not cherry pick and have it both ways, they are to be trusted here, but there they were lying scoundrels.

You have discredited the premise of your OP with your own words.
Thank you. Nothing more need be said, by you. And nothing was, you can not defend your words or the OP.

 

[sparky]

The simpletons who can't help but hide from the central moral issue of this matter won't even bother to read these pertinent quotes. They have been presented with this evidence many, many times by now.

The truth s*cks , and some will simply do anything to avoid it Unkotare

You can not claim "senior american military leader" made statements that are documented that indicate the Atomic bombing of Japan was unnecessary and wrong, and then state, "Government documents are often inaccurate and incomplete and sometimes they're misleading and even fraudulent."

Yes we can, because those senior officials did make those statements, the Truman administration created a gag order for them, them revised history to claim the bomb was entirely necessary to save lives.

~S~

 

[HenryBHough]

A lot of the world's troubles can be traced to the simple fact that Truman (the last president who understood wars are for winning) didn't have enough to sink all of Japland to some lumps on the bottom of the sea.

 

[elektra]

The simpletons who can't help but hide from the central moral issue of this matter won't even bother to read these pertinent quotes. They have been presented with this evidence many, many times by now.

The truth s*cks , and some will simply do anything to avoid it Unkotare

You can not claim "senior american military leader" made statements that are documented that indicate the Atomic bombing of Japan was unnecessary and wrong, and then state, "Government documents are often inaccurate and incomplete and sometimes they're misleading and even fraudulent."

Yes we can, because those senior officials did make those statements, the Truman administration created a gag order for them, them revised history to claim the bomb was entirely necessary to save lives.

~S~

No, they did not. Provide a link, can you do that? Cite a book, can you do that?

I already replied two, three times. You were not able to respond, at all. I will busy for awhile, posting facts to show your opinion is based on lies.

It is easy for you to go to a liberal, biased, search engine and have your opinion reinforced by propaganda. Me, I will refer to first hand accounts and witness as recorded in books.

 

[elektra]

i
US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.”

Thus far this will be my forth response with facts. Tackling three or your "top officials". Not one of the first three posts have been responded to. You are not getting any help from anyone? Even the author of this OP is unable to offer any help. This will be my seventh posting of fact. This OP is a failure at this point.

HAP did not say what you attribute to him. HAP was on board and helped select the targets.

HAP by Thomas M. Coffey

 

[elektra]

The simpletons who can't help but hide from the central moral issue of this matter won't even bother to read these pertinent quotes. They have been presented with this evidence many, many times by now.

Your user name? Funny, you speaking of morals. Is there nothing you would not do. I should keep my mouth shut. I would not want decent people to be horrified if they look up your user name on google.

 

[sparky]

i
US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.”

Thus far this will be my forth response with facts. Tackling three or your "top officials". Not one of the first three posts have been responded to. You are not getting any help from anyone? Even the author of this OP is unable to offer any help. This will be my seventh posting of fact. This OP is a failure at this point.

HAP did not say what you attribute to him. HAP was on board and helped select the targets.

HAP by Thomas M. Coffey

View attachment 274583 View attachment 274584

Wings of Judgment

~S~

 

[sparky]

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a330223.pdf

~S~

 

[elektra]

View attachment 274583 View attachment 274584

Wings of Judgment

~S~[/QUOTE]
The page you linked to, references the book I own and have referenced. So now you have confirmed the statement you first attributed to HAP is false.

You do not own the book, you have not read the book, you certainly did not quote from the link you gave. If you did quote from the link, go ahead, to that spot, and link that spot.

You got your information elsewhere and have scrambled to google for a source, hence your source is google books.

Nice try, not really, you got busted not reading and not knowing and trying to make google searches cover your previous google searches.

Only a idiot solely relies on google. Until you buy some books and invest in an education you know nothing. Which is apparent by how easy it was to prove you wrong. And, it was very funny to see you link to the book I just quoted which refuted what you posted.

Your link, proved you wrong!!!! It affirms my response, you linked to my source! You really should of read what you linked to.

 

[elektra]

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a330223.pdf

~S~

so? Another link you did not use in your original post. You are really reaching. And where is your quote from this link. Again, you are assuming this link will confirm your statement. I say it does not and you can not quote from this link to prove otherwise.

Like the last link, which you did not read, and only referenced the book I used to show what you posted was a false statement, this link will not help you either.

But if you like, go ahead and try, but do not pretend that somehow, after the fact, your original quote came from either of these sources.

I have proved it did not come from the first source, and you kind of dumbly did not read my response. You should of, and you should of read your first link, you would of discovered the humiliating error you were about to make.

 

[elektra]

Where do you get that idea?

Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.…

US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Timesreporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.”


Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated in a public address at the Washington Monument two months after the bombings that “the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan

Adm. William “Bull” Halsey Jr., Commander of the US Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946 that “the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment…. It was a mistake to ever drop it…. [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it…”

Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, for his part, stated in his memoirs that when notified by Secretary of War Henry Stimson of the decision to use atomic weapons, he “voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives…

Maj. Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Twenty-First Bomber Command, went public the month after the bombing, telling the press that “the atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.”

~S~

Three down, a few more to go. Your quotes are proving false, quickly. I will be back to this. It takes time to do proper research. It takes time to acquire the material.

I will have to look through my library and see if I have something on Nimitz, I think I do but maybe not. I have ordered at least one book. I will order more to see what these people actually did say.

Your links, thus far, have proven me right, and you wrong. Read the links, just do not copy and paste from google. This is not a race. I would rather you be accurate than sloppy. I will take days responding. Because that is what it does take, unless one has no job and has access to a very good library.

I am lucky, I have a job and my own personal library. Discussions like this enlighten me as to what to add to my library so that I can respond properly, accurately, with facts.

Leahy's book is coming, I hope, it is not cheap, used. Pretty damn expensive really.

 

[Unkotare]

The simpletons who can't help but hide from the central moral issue of this matter won't even bother to read these pertinent quotes. They have been presented with this evidence many, many times by now.

Your user name? Funny, you speaking of morals. Is there nothing you would not do. I should keep my mouth shut. I would not want decent people to be horrified if they look up your user name on google.

You won’t find it on google translate, dope.

 

[elektra]

You won’t find it on google translate, dope.

Okay, We will simply google search, "definition unkotare"

Warning, do not perform this search, it is a sick, gross classless sexual depravity no normal person would care to even know exists.

Maybe you should stick to the topic, you certainly ain't good at trolling and flaming You never will be with that user name.

 

[Unkotare]

You won’t find it on google translate, dope.

Okay, We will simply google search, "definition unkotare"

Warning, do not perform this search, it is a sick, gross classless sexual depravity no normal person would care to even know exists.

Maybe you should stick to the topic, you certainly ain't good at trolling and flaming You never will be with that user name.

You won’t find it that way, stupid.