"The Obamacare implosion is worse than you think"

[Antares]

Obamacare Forcing Another Michigan Hospital To Cut Budget And Fire Staff



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bdjcl_X5Nk

International and internal talent flight is a characteristic of any and all national healthcare systems at least initially. The real dangers for ACA include but are probably not limited to:

Non-exchange policies sinking in costs relative to exchange policies: less adverse selection.

Non-exchange MDs and prescriptions requiring full payment in advance for medicare/medicaid patients.

State insurance commissioners not permitting higher rates for exchange as opposed to non-exchange policies.

Since internal talent flight is protected by case law involving the Okies and Arkies in the 1930s Doctors will accumulate in some states while medicare/medicaid will accumulate and since perversity tends toward the maximum at least one state will end up with both fewer healthcare workers and medicare/mediaid patients but I have no prediction on which one or even that there will be only one such case.

Non-exchange policies sinking in costs relative to exchange policies: less adverse selection.

On or off the plan is the same, the risk pools are the same....

Non-exchange policies sinking in costs relative to exchange policies: less adverse selection.

No, the plans all use the same plan code everyone goes into the plan together, on or off.

Non-exchange MDs and prescriptions requiring full payment in advance for medicare/medicaid patients

If they take Medicare they have agreed to the payment schedule, and the Supplement chosen determines the patients costs.
For example Plan F covers ALL out of pocket costs EXCEPT for Part D.

State insurance commissioners not permitting higher rates for exchange as opposed to non-exchange policies.

Again same pool....rates must be uniform.

 

[william the wie]

Obamacare Forcing Another Michigan Hospital To Cut Budget And Fire Staff



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bdjcl_X5Nk

International and internal talent flight is a characteristic of any and all national healthcare systems at least initially. The real dangers for ACA include but are probably not limited to:

Non-exchange policies sinking in costs relative to exchange policies: less adverse selection.

Non-exchange MDs and prescriptions requiring full payment in advance for medicare/medicaid patients.

State insurance commissioners not permitting higher rates for exchange as opposed to non-exchange policies.

Since internal talent flight is protected by case law involving the Okies and Arkies in the 1930s Doctors will accumulate in some states while medicare/medicaid will accumulate and since perversity tends toward the maximum at least one state will end up with both fewer healthcare workers and medicare/mediaid patients but I have no prediction on which one or even that there will be only one such case.

Non-exchange policies sinking in costs relative to exchange policies: less adverse selection.

On or off the plan is the same, the risk pools are the same....

Non-exchange policies sinking in costs relative to exchange policies: less adverse selection.

No, the plans all use the same plan code everyone goes into the plan together, on or off.

Non-exchange MDs and prescriptions requiring full payment in advance for medicare/medicaid patients

If they take Medicare they have agreed to the payment schedule, and the Supplement chosen determines the patients costs.
For example Plan F covers ALL out of pocket costs EXCEPT for Part D.

State insurance commissioners not permitting higher rates for exchange as opposed to non-exchange policies.

Again same pool....rates must be uniform.

Mayo does not work that way and there are huge hunks of the country with 2,1 or zero exchange providers like much of western MS. there are health insurers in western MS and the supreme court ruled back in the 1940s that insurance regulation was a states matter. The newer no mandates for states ruling means HHS cannot say squat about internal rate policies . The ACA may well have the unconstitutional provisions you cite but they cannot be enforced in court.

 

[Spoonman]

it really is so bad they have to start lying about it. what a shame. when government cares more about protecting their own image, god forbid they lose a vote or two, than doing what is right for the people they are elected to serve, then its time for that government to be removed from office..

Sen. John Barrasso: White House Is 'Cooking The Books' On Obamacare Enrollment Numbers

 

[Jroc]

Cleveland Clinic CEO: 3/4 Of Obamacare Signups Will Face Higher Premiums



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fxY0-JIyg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fxY0-JIyg[/ame]

 

[Geaux4it]

it really is so bad they have to start lying about it. what a shame. when government cares more about protecting their own image, god forbid they lose a vote or two, than doing what is right for the people they are elected to serve, then its time for that government to be removed from office..

Sen. John Barrasso: White House Is 'Cooking The Books' On Obamacare Enrollment Numbers

Yes, the time is now to save America from further demise.

The elected officials no longer represent the people they support

Tar and feather time

-Geaux

 

[Amelia]

My local friend who initially thought he would be unable to afford insurance because of how he was told the subsidy worked -- he was led to believe he would have to pay full price and then get the subsidy as a refund at the end of the year -- has found a plan which is practically free to him.

Zero deductible. Very nice copays (e.g., $10 for office visit, $100 for emergency room, $5 for prescritpions). But this young Wisconsinite can't sign up for it because he can't get the computer to recognize that he doesn't live in Alabama. He's made many phone calls trying to get this fixed.

Oops, I can't remember what he said he would pay per month in premiums. It was either 0 or something low like $20.




... If he finally gets signed up, I'm happy for him, but even though he's in the age range they want signing up, he's getting subsidized, not paying in or paying extremely little, so how is this affordable for the nation?

He says this same bargain he's getting is available to any local person who makes less than $28,000. So now he's concerned about what will happen if he ever gets a raise to more than $28,000. He says he'd suddenly owe $3000 if that happened. He's anxious about needing to pay close attention and remembering to find a new policy if he gets close to that much income.

The per capita income for this area is quite a bit less than $28,000. So it sounds like most would qualify for subsidies. (So again, how is this affordable for the nation?)

 

[LoneLaugher]

My local friend who initially thought he would be unable to afford insurance because of how he was told the subsidy worked -- he was led to believe he would have to pay full price and then get the subsidy as a refund at the end of the year -- has found a plan which is practically free to him.

Zero deductible. Very nice copays (e.g., $10 for office visit, $100 for emergency room, $5 for prescritpions). But this young Wisconsinite can't sign up for it because he can't get the computer to recognize that he doesn't live in Alabama. He's made many phone calls trying to get this fixed.



... If he finally gets signed up, I'm happy for him, but even though he's in the age range they want signing up, he's getting subsidized, not paying in, so how is this affordable for the nation?

It is a pay less now instead of pay more later type of deal. People with insurance that has preventive care included are healthier.....keeping OUR costs for health care down as a WHOLE.

 

[asterism]

My local friend who initially thought he would be unable to afford insurance because of how he was told the subsidy worked -- he was led to believe he would have to pay full price and then get the subsidy as a refund at the end of the year -- has found a plan which is practically free to him.

Zero deductible. Very nice copays (e.g., $10 for office visit, $100 for emergency room, $5 for prescritpions). But this young Wisconsinite can't sign up for it because he can't get the computer to recognize that he doesn't live in Alabama. He's made many phone calls trying to get this fixed.



... If he finally gets signed up, I'm happy for him, but even though he's in the age range they want signing up, he's getting subsidized, not paying in, so how is this affordable for the nation?

It is a pay less now instead of pay more later type of deal. People with insurance that has preventive care included are healthier.....keeping OUR costs for health care down as a WHOLE.

That's not true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0

 

[LoneLaugher]

My local friend who initially thought he would be unable to afford insurance because of how he was told the subsidy worked -- he was led to believe he would have to pay full price and then get the subsidy as a refund at the end of the year -- has found a plan which is practically free to him.

Zero deductible. Very nice copays (e.g., $10 for office visit, $100 for emergency room, $5 for prescritpions). But this young Wisconsinite can't sign up for it because he can't get the computer to recognize that he doesn't live in Alabama. He's made many phone calls trying to get this fixed.



... If he finally gets signed up, I'm happy for him, but even though he's in the age range they want signing up, he's getting subsidized, not paying in, so how is this affordable for the nation?

It is a pay less now instead of pay more later type of deal. People with insurance that has preventive care included are healthier.....keeping OUR costs for health care down as a WHOLE.

That's not true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0

Show me the study that disputes what I said, please. That does not.

And....do you find that to be sound logic? If so, we can really reduce our helth care costs if we just stop feeding people.....pollute all the water .....or give all of our kids loaded firearms for X-mas.

Try harder.

 

[asterism]

It is a pay less now instead of pay more later type of deal. People with insurance that has preventive care included are healthier.....keeping OUR costs for health care down as a WHOLE.

That's not true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0

Show me the study that disputes what I said, please. That does not.

And....do you find that to be sound logic? If so, we can really reduce our helth care costs if we just stop feeding people.....pollute all the water .....or give all of our kids loaded firearms for X-mas.

Try harder.

Healthier people live longer and die from more expensive diseases. That's what the study says.

 

[LoneLaugher]

That's not true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0

Show me the study that disputes what I said, please. That does not.

And....do you find that to be sound logic? If so, we can really reduce our helth care costs if we just stop feeding people.....pollute all the water .....or give all of our kids loaded firearms for X-mas.

Try harder.

Healthier people live longer and die from more expensive diseases. That's what the study says.

That is retarded and does not dispute the claim that I made.

 

[william the wie]

My local friend who initially thought he would be unable to afford insurance because of how he was told the subsidy worked -- he was led to believe he would have to pay full price and then get the subsidy as a refund at the end of the year -- has found a plan which is practically free to him.

Zero deductible. Very nice copays (e.g., $10 for office visit, $100 for emergency room, $5 for prescritpions). But this young Wisconsinite can't sign up for it because he can't get the computer to recognize that he doesn't live in Alabama. He's made many phone calls trying to get this fixed.



... If he finally gets signed up, I'm happy for him, but even though he's in the age range they want signing up, he's getting subsidized, not paying in, so how is this affordable for the nation?

It is a pay less now instead of pay more later type of deal. People with insurance that has preventive care included are healthier.....keeping OUR costs for health care down as a WHOLE.

That's not true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0

the preponderance of evidence indicates but does not prove that this is true across the board. Nootropics such as caffiene and more powerfully nicotene have the same effects at a reduced scale as meth or cocaine such as lower rates of dementia and less severe dementia among the fewer people who get it. EDTA, the chelation agent found in your mayonaise and usually your shampoo, when used theraputically does extend quantity and quality of life but since it does not reverse aging it also increases lifetime medical costs by a lot.

 

[Geaux4it]

Still relevant, even more perhaps

-Geaux

[youtube]DDdmtJCEWPA[/youtube]

 

[Jroc]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC4wDMu3gyc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC4wDMu3gyc[/ame]

 

[Amelia]

A person died because Obama caused her affordable and reliable insurance to be disrupted and she found herself in a state of uncertainty which caused her to put off seeking medical care which turned out to be vital.

.... and PolitiFact's response is to award a Pants On Fire to the person who helped the story get publicity.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...coulter/ann-coulter-says-friends-sister-died/

 

[MeBelle]

A person died because Obama caused her affordable and reliable insurance to be disrupted and she found herself in a state of uncertainty which caused her to put off seeking medical care which turned out to be vital.

.... and PolitiFact's response is to award a Pants On Fire to the person who helped the story get publicity.

Ann Coulter says a friend's sister "died from Obamacare" because Blue Shield of California left | PunditFact

Blue Shield of California could no longer offer some health insurance plans because they did not include "essential health benefits" required by the Affordable Care Act.

These plans could not be grandfathered in under the new law. Blue Shield of California sent letters to 119,000 customers in September notifying them their current plans would end "but we can still have you covered in 2014." PunditFact obtained a sample cancellation letter from the company.

The letter explained Blue Shield would offer new plans that include the minimum health benefits required by the health care law, such as emergency services, prescription drugs and preventive care.

If a customer took no action after reading the letter, he or she would be automatically enrolled into a new plan recommended by Blue Shield. This was meant "to ensure that no one experienced a lapse in coverage," said spokeswoman Mia Campitelli.

The letters went to 57 percent of the insurer’s individual market customers, she said. For two-thirds of the people who lost their plan, the recommended option was more expensive, the Los Angeles Times reported.

~~~~
Talk about semantics... "completely just pulled out of California"

Or maybe she lived here:

Blue Shield quits Monterey County for Obamacare coverage

 

[Antares]

It is a pay less now instead of pay more later type of deal. People with insurance that has preventive care included are healthier.....keeping OUR costs for health care down as a WHOLE.

That's not true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0

Show me the study that disputes what I said, please. That does not.

And....do you find that to be sound logic? If so, we can really reduce our helth care costs if we just stop feeding people.....pollute all the water .....or give all of our kids loaded firearms for X-mas.

Try harder.

It is a pay less now instead of pay more later type of deal. People with insurance that has preventive care included are healthier.....keeping OUR costs for health care down as a WHOLE.

Yeah, no.
Prove your assertion first.

 

[Geaux4it]

Now that Michigan has become the 34th state to demand a Constitutional Convention we can band together and use the resulting constitution to terminate Obamacare

-Geaux

 

[Jroc]

Compassionate liberals attack this women

Mother of Five: Obamacare Jeopardizing My Family’s Financial Future
Getting hate mail, called ‘lying bitch’ by Obamacare supporters



A Michigan mother of five says that the crushing new costs associated with Obamacare have imperiled her family’s financial future and will burden the household with thousands of dollars in unexpected expenses.

The uptick in costs that Shannon Wendt and her family will face in the coming years under President Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act will strain the family’s finances and force both Shannon and her husband to work harder to bridge the fiscal gap.

Wendt initially decided to discuss her plight in an ad produced by the advocacy group Americans for Prosperity, which has chronicled the negative impact of Obamacare on American families across the nation.

Wendt told the Washington Free Beacon that since she first spoke about her rising healthcare costs supporters of Obama’s signature law have deluged her with “hate mail,” dubbing her a “lying bitch” and writing that “my children should be taken away.”

“It is going to be a big price increase so it’s definitely something that we have to consider and figure out,” Wendt said in an interview.

“We have always been really entrepreneurial and do it yourselfers … [so] that’s where we run into these problems with the increase because we don’t say, ‘Oh, who’s going to pay for this for us.’ We said, ‘We’re going to have to work a little harder, work a little smarter, and figure something out so our income can go up,’” she said.

The burden of Obamacare has sparked worry and anxiety in the Wendt household.
A Michigan mother of five says that the crushing new costs associated with Obamacare have imperiled her family’s financial future and will burden the household with thousands of dollars in unexpected expenses.

The uptick in costs that Shannon Wendt and her family will face in the coming years under President Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act will strain the family’s finances and force both Shannon and her husband to work harder to bridge the fiscal gap.

Wendt initially decided to discuss her plight in an ad produced by the advocacy group Americans for Prosperity, which has chronicled the negative impact of Obamacare on American families across the nation.

Wendt told the Washington Free Beacon that since she first spoke about her rising healthcare costs supporters of Obama’s signature law have deluged her with “hate mail,” dubbing her a “lying bitch” and writing that “my children should be taken away.”

“It is going to be a big price increase so it’s definitely something that we have to consider and figure out,” Wendt said in an interview.

“We have always been really entrepreneurial and do it yourselfers … [so] that’s where we run into these problems with the increase because we don’t say, ‘Oh, who’s going to pay for this for us.’ We said, ‘We’re going to have to work a little harder, work a little smarter, and figure something out so our income can go up,’” she said.

The burden of Obamacare has sparked worry and anxiety in the Wendt household.

Mother of Five: Obamacare Jeopardizing My Family?s Financial Future | Washington Free Beacon

 

[Amelia]

Well obviously she is lying. Harry Reid said so.