The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Esmeralda]

Zimmerman defense: Texts show Trayvon Martin 'hostile' day of shooting - CNN.com


Are they relevant? Should they be admissible?

I'm on the fence, I imagine setting up his state of mind that day could be relevant. However, I wonder if angry texts with a girlfriend hours before his death "set up a state of mind"? Especially with teenager boys, being angry one min. with one person and totally fine the next with someone else is pretty common.

From the article/link: "The attorney for Martin's family, Benjamin Crump, said Thursday that evidence and other details -- like the defense's assertion that Martin had removable gold tooth caps -- are "irrelevant."

I think this stuff is irrelevant. Using it is tantamount to saying a women who dresses provocatively deserves to be raped or a woman who argues with her husband deserves to be beaten. Also, we can only conjecture on his state of mind at the time he was being follwed by Zimmerman. He may have been angry with someone else about something, but he may have also been alarmed and frightened by Zimmerman following him. This evidence should not be used to show his state of mind as far as his response to Zimmerman because it is all speculation. Saying he had a specific state of mind that would cause him to attack with and fight with Zimmerman is pure speculation. There is no real, proveable evidence of that.

 

[Esmeralda]

I agree his state of mind is relevant. I'm just on the fence if texts sent eariler in the day where he was "hostile" to friends go to his state of mind.

Of course they don't. It would be pure speculation to say they did. Does a woman who has casual sex with a man she just met earlier in the day ask to be raped later in the day? You are trying to make a causal chain that doesn't link up.

 

[Ravi]

When Zimmerman pushed the man who he thought was harassing his friend he didn't know that the man in question was an undercover officer until AFTER he shoved him. It's why the charge was downgraded. But that wasn't what was reported by the media because they went after Zimmerman's reputation hammer and tong! I ask you again, Watcher...do you think Zimmerman would have shoved someone he KNEW was an law enforcement official when he was attempting to join the Sheriff's Department? All I ask of people is to use a little common sense here.

Why is it that after you were presented the facts you simply ignored them and repeated something you want to be true? That's some serious willful ignorance you've displayed.

 

[Esmeralda]

People who ARE lying invariably trip themselves up because they can't keep their story straight. George Zimmerman's story about what happened that night hasn't changed despite being questioned on numerous occasions.

Totally untrue.

 

[Esmeralda]

They want to paint the victim in a poor light, it's like what they do in rape cases. In this case it doesn't matter, he wasn't found with a gun or drugs on him, and he wasn't committing a crime.
Personally, I wonder why so many think that Zimmerman can use self defense, but not Martin. Someone following you could be considered a threat, and make one fear for their safety. So yeah, I never understood why some dont see that part of the situation. Is it because he is black? A teenager? Or not a legal gun owner?

He had the time to go into his house. Instead he chose to return and attack a man for the simple act of walking down the street. He then threatened to use that mans own gun to kill him. Zimmerman has so testified. Witnesses place Tryvon on top pounding his head into the ground. Zimmerman's wounds confirm that Zimmerman and the witnesses were correct.

Why is it you ignore these facts? Inconvenient to your choir boy notion?> Zimmerman is credible Trayvon's position is not.

Zimmerman was walking the streets? He has admitted to following him.
If someone was following you at night you wouldn't be fearful? And we only have Zimmerman word that he was attacked first. No witness who saw the attack can pin point who attacked whom first.
Plus Zimmerman followed Martin who had committed no crime. Martin would be justified in fearing for your life. And in Florida Law, one doesn't have to retreat if they fear they are in imminent danger. I would say someone following me would make me fear for my life, or that I might receive Bodily arm. But that just me, most honest people would agree with me.

I agree so much with this. Why is it okay for Zimmerman to stand his ground when he is in fear of his life but not for Martin to do the same? If someone were following me, with no provocation, at night, I would be very fearful for my life. I think Zimmerman's attorneys are not using the stand your ground law because it could backfire, because we could say that's what Martin was doing too.

 

[Esmeralda]

I'm wondering what the jury will make of all the evidence. If I were on the jury, I would be very suspicious of someone in fear of their life while following the follower after the follower stopped following and then attacking them, then winding up dead because the original follower had a weapon.

And yes, if someone were following me, depending on the situation, I would be wary of what was the intent of the person. But once I "ditched" that person, I damn sure wouldn't go back to follow them. I'd go home and call the cops since I don't have a cell. Oh. Wait. Martin had a cell, yet he called his girlfriend instead.

Once again, Gracie, you are saying what you would do in a situation you have never been in. In addition, you were not a participant in this specific situation and don't know what happened, unless you want to, without question or reservation, accept Zimmerman's version of events: a man who is a proven liar and someone who has assaulted people before.

 

[Rct_Tsoul]

If there was a short, chubby, out of shape man following me ....... I would have bitch slapped him for reasons of GP

Now there is a fight ........... the short, chubby, out of shape Mexican got his ass whooped and feels humiliated and now that the fight is over decides to end my life with a gun because he is sick & tired of getting whooped & disrespected, time & time again because of his appearance ............ to make things even worse .......... these niggs got bigger dicks ......... he needs to let the niggs know that his AUTHORITY must not be put in check simply because he is a weakling.

 

[jon_berzerk]

There are a lot of things on the phone that the defense wants added that I can't see as being relevant, pics of trayvon flipping off the camera, his wearing gold caps, not relevant IMO. I can see texts about fighting being relevant. Smoking weed and arguing with a gf, not really relevant unless the prosecution try's to paint a picture of trayvon that those thing refute.

They want to paint the victim in a poor light, it's like what they do in rape cases. In this case it doesn't matter, he wasn't found with a gun or drugs on him, and he wasn't committing a crime.
Personally, I wonder why so many think that Zimmerman can use self defense, but not Martin. Someone following you could be considered a threat, and make one fear for their safety. So yeah, I never understood why some dont see that part of the situation. Is it because he is black? A teenager? Or not a legal gun owner?

He had the time to go into his house. Instead he chose to return and attack a man for the simple act of walking down the street. He then threatened to use that mans own gun to kill him. Zimmerman has so testified. Witnesses place Tryvon on top pounding his head into the ground. Zimmerman's wounds confirm that Zimmerman and the witnesses were correct.

Why is it you ignore these facts? Inconvenient to your choir boy notion?> Zimmerman is credible Trayvon's position is not.

besides witness testimony

photo evidence shows grass stains on the knees on martins pants

 

[jon_berzerk]

They want to paint the victim in a poor light, it's like what they do in rape cases. In this case it doesn't matter, he wasn't found with a gun or drugs on him, and he wasn't committing a crime.
Personally, I wonder why so many think that Zimmerman can use self defense, but not Martin. Someone following you could be considered a threat, and make one fear for their safety. So yeah, I never understood why some dont see that part of the situation. Is it because he is black? A teenager? Or not a legal gun owner?

You are a racist! Trayvon was not attacked or injured prior to being shot. He did not have a mark on his body other than the gunshot. Had no justifiable fear for his life.

according to witness 8 original martin turned around an approached zimmerman

in the note there is a curious part where she writes casually

" i thought it was just a fight"

as if fighting was common for martin

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/w8_letter.pdf

 

[jon_berzerk]

[/QUOTE]

The law doesn't specify one has to use a gun, and he wasn't old enough to own one legally.
And if someone was follows me at night the way Zimmerman did I would feel threatened.[/QUOTE]


but martin had one none the less according to his cell phone

 

[WorldWatcher]

but martin had one none the less according to his cell phone

The cell phone image does not show "martin had one", it shows that someone handled one and Martin took a picture. Those could be Martin's hands or someone else. Taking a picture of a gun does not show that you own it or possess it.


>>>>

 

[Katzndogz]

All evidence of Martin's thuggishness has been excluded by the judge.

 

[tjvh]

All evidence of Martin's thuggishness has been excluded by the judge.

Yup, Trayvon's interests in fighting, illegal handguns, and weed have no bearing on poor Trayvon's character... None at all. It's pure nonsense to exclude those texts.

 

[testarosa]

Regardless of your view on guilt, this trial is so politically driven, racially fired and sensationalized, he's not going to get a fair trial and that's an injustice in and of itself.

Am I supposed to disclaim with "IMO" here?

 

[Snookie]

Regardless of your view on guilt, this trial is so politically driven, racially fired and sensationalized, he's not going to get a fair trial and that's an injustice in and of itself.

Am I supposed to disclaim with "IMO" here?

Whose fault is that? Just curious.

 

[testarosa]

Regardless of your view on guilt, this trial is so politically driven, racially fired and sensationalized, he's not going to get a fair trial and that's an injustice in and of itself.

Am I supposed to disclaim with "IMO" here?

Whose fault is that? Just curious.

Whose fault? Where to start.

NBC for creative "race" editing on original news report lighting the fire, last criminal case and other motivators for this judge, Sanford citizens, i.e. potential jurors under some pressure on both sides of a verdict, Black Panthers, Skinheads from up north, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton all swarmed and created a lot of pressure - aka, people using this as a catalyst for their own agendas. I'm totally disagreeing with arguing motions on live every-single-local-channel TV, it's one thing to read them, they are public record, another to see them argued, taints the jury pool off the bat. Spike Lee posting incorrect Zimmerman address on Twitter lighting up his 200k whatever followers that invaded their home - had to throw Spike under the bus for being an idiot.

I'll think of some more in a while, there are so many to choose from.

Those are just a few of the "organized" agenda-ers, not even taking into account the crazy police car shooters / courthouse bomb threat-ers.

Being a juror on this trial is the civic duty that could get you killed.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Regardless of your view on guilt, this trial is so politically driven, racially fired and sensationalized, he's not going to get a fair trial and that's an injustice in and of itself.

Am I supposed to disclaim with "IMO" here?

The fairness will depend upon the jury selected. How many of them will lie just to be seated on it? I would hope none, but there's always 1 person that has an agenda all his/her own.

The media will have headlines screaming just for ratings. Their reporters will make outrageous assumptions and will talk to anyone that does the same. The more outlandish, the higher their ratings. Anyone up for HLN's drama queens, Nancy Grace and Jane Velez-Mitchell, regarding any of the above? LOL I really think it's ridiculous and sad as to how far the media will go just to get viewers.

 

[Oldstyle]

People who ARE lying invariably trip themselves up because they can't keep their story straight. George Zimmerman's story about what happened that night hasn't changed despite being questioned on numerous occasions.

Totally untrue.

What part of George Zimmerman's story has changed? It's remained constant throughout. You'd better believe the Police grilled him on it when he was first taken into custody. He's not doing a Jody Arias here...he's not making this up as he goes. How can you tell? Because his story HASN'T changed.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Regardless of your view on guilt, this trial is so politically driven, racially fired and sensationalized, he's not going to get a fair trial and that's an injustice in and of itself.

Am I supposed to disclaim with "IMO" here?

Whose fault is that? Just curious.

Whose fault? Where to start.

NBC for creative "race" editing on original news report lighting the fire, last criminal case and other motivators for this judge, Sanford citizens, i.e. potential jurors under some pressure on both sides of a verdict, Black Panthers, Skinheads from up north, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton all swarmed and created a lot of pressure - aka, people using this as a catalyst for their own agendas. I'm totally disagreeing with arguing motions on live every-single-local-channel TV, it's one thing to read them, they are public record, another to see them argued, taints the jury pool off the bat. Spike Lee posting incorrect Zimmerman address on Twitter lighting up his 200k whatever followers that invaded their home - had to throw Spike under the bus for being an idiot.

I'll think of some more in a while, there are so many to choose from.

Those are just a few of the "organized" agenda-ers, not even taking into account the crazy police car shooters / courthouse bomb threat-ers.

Being a juror on this trial is the civic duty that could get you killed.

I hate to say it, but the race card was pulled on this when Trayvon was shot. I remember seeing it in the media; there were 'town meetings', or something to that effect, and marches that happened frequently until Zimmerman was put behind bars. This trial could very well start a 'race war', as much as I hate to say it. If attorneys for either side feed into it, it'll be just that much worse.

 

[testarosa]

Regardless of your view on guilt, this trial is so politically driven, racially fired and sensationalized, he's not going to get a fair trial and that's an injustice in and of itself.

Am I supposed to disclaim with "IMO" here?

The fairness will depend upon the jury selected. How many of them will lie just to be seated on it? I would hope none, but there's always 1 person that has an agenda all his/her own.

The media will have headlines screaming just for ratings. Their reporters will make outrageous assumptions and will talk to anyone that does the same. The more outlandish, the higher their ratings. Anyone up for HLN's drama queens, Nancy Grace and Jane Velez-Mitchell, regarding any of the above? LOL I really think it's ridiculous and sad as to how far the media will go just to get viewers.

It's not just the media with this one, although that's a gigantic factor, I'm almost to the point I think this whole reality tv in the courtroom needs to come to an end because it effects the judicial process - but that's another discussion. Anyhow, it's the race and the predisposed opinions. This isn't an "evidentiary" trial, this is emotionally driven. When the Black Panthers and the Skinheads show up in your town, no one doesn't not know what's going on, it's a scary thing. There have been so many marches/Al Sharpton podium downtown bangings/demonstrations, etc. I cannot believe they could find anyone not on "one side or the other". You had to DRIVE THROUGH and around the masses of people to get the grocery store, it's not like there is anyone in the area that didn't notice. And if you don't have a car and didn't leave the house, they were broadcast on every station lol.

If by some chance they get a decent jury willing to hear out the evidence with no bias, the violence and repercussions from a decision could have and effect on the jury also.

This is such a weird, volatile and unpredictable situation. I don't believe any way you cut it up, it's possible to have a fair trial under these kind of circumstances.