The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[25Caliber]

I don't see how the prosecution loses. If Zimmerman leaves the vehicle; he's no longer standing his ground--especially if he's going looking for Martin.

If the Prosecution can put Zimmerman outside of his vehicle, Zimmerman cannot claim castle doctrine. So that is it for his case.

Is it not allowed for a watchmen to leave his vehicle or post for surveillance purposes, and this within the community he was charged to watch by that community ? Just asking... I am not sure what his job contained as far as surveillance goes, or what he was supposed to do when saw a potential suspect at night in the rain walking, and especially if said suspect looked suspicious all by his limited training he had in this respect. I think it was a perfect storm that came together possibly, of a miss-identification on both the individuals parts upon who exactly it was that either person was dealing with that night. The case should be studied for future do's and don'ts in a situation like this, and it sure will shed a better light on how such a watch program is badly flawed, thus placing two individuals at odd's with each other, when they should have never been at odd's with each other to begin with.

Well said. Both were irresponsible in decision making that night. Trayvon paid for his with his life and GZ should pay for his with some time behind bars.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't see how the prosecution loses. If Zimmerman leaves the vehicle; he's no longer standing his ground--especially if he's going looking for Martin.

If the Prosecution can put Zimmerman outside of his vehicle, Zimmerman cannot claim castle doctrine. So that is it for his case.

Is it not allowed for a watchmen to leave his vehicle or post for surveillance purposes, and this within the community he was charged to watch by that community ? Just asking... I am not sure what his job contained as far as surveillance goes, or what he was supposed to do when saw a potential suspect at night in the rain walking, and especially if said suspect looked suspicious all by his limited training he had in this respect. I think it was a perfect storm that came together possibly, of a miss-identification on both the individuals parts upon who exactly it was that either person was dealing with that night. The case should be studied for future do's and don'ts in a situation like this, and it sure will shed a better light on how such a watch program is badly flawed, thus placing two individuals at odd's with each other, when they should have never been at odd's with each other to begin with.

What he is supposed to do is stay in his vehicle and not follow or confront suspects but report them to the police and wait for the pollice to take care of it.

The 'suspect' did nothing wrong. An unarmed citizen walking in an area he had every right to be in, minding his own business ends up dead for what? For us to learn a lesson about what to do and not to do? What lesson does the unarmed private citizen learn? Don't leave your home after dark? Don't walk to the store? Don't spend time outside though you don't feel like going right inside?

The lesson here is for vigilante types to stop it. For neighborhood watch people to follow the rules and recommendations and let the police handle problems. For people to stop running around with guns wanting to be heros. WTF did he think he needed a gun for?

If he had done what he was supposed to do, that young man would still be alive.

 

[25Caliber]

Martin stated that he lost the young man during the call with the dispatcher so the only way the confrontation happened was if Martin double backed.
You're telling me that some pudgy middle aged guy chased down this young athletic man?

Telling you?

Those are the facts.

Zimmerman has also lied several times about what happened.

In the first iteration of his "story" Martin "cold cocked" him as he left the car to check the address. That turned out to be a complete lie. Subsequent Zimmerman stories have Martin struggling for the gun and telling Zimmerman that he was going to kill him

Bottom line?

I don't believe anything Zimmerman says.

He got it wrong over 5 times.

These guys have an entirely different set of "facts" that they've pulled out of the sky or some whacko website.

There are certain facts they can't explain though. No blood on Martin's hands even after swabbing under his fingernails. No defensive bruises or wounds on Trevon's hands or arms. The person who was the aggressor and on top in the scuffle, got up. The other one was laying dead on the ground.

Hi [MENTION=18645]Sarah G[/MENTION] ! thats it...just saying hi

 

[legaleagle_45]

Then, why bother calling them in an emergency?

Because they will contact the appropriate emergncy response organization depending upon the nature of your emergency. If someone needs an ambulance, they will contact the local ambulance company and have one sent out. If there is a fire, they will contact the proper fire depatrment and have them respond. If there has been some other disturbance they may contact the police. While being somewhat more helpful and charged with the responsibility of discerning the nature of the emergency, they are essentially a central switchboard which handles emergency calls and directs them to the proper agency for response.

 

[deltex1]

When is the defense going to point out that the screams for help continued after the gunshot was heard...was Trayvon in a condition to continue screaming...or was he dead?

 

[deltex1]

Rachel Jeantel

 

[legaleagle_45]

Correct...hence the words "opinion" and "gray area".

But do you really think that GZ was reaching for his phone with some angry stranger charging him? GZ reaches to his right, then tells the cop he was going for his phone instead...oops i forgot where my phone was. Well when it turns out that your gun was holstered in that same spot, then what is a logical person supposed to assume you were really reaching for in that specific moment? A phone? Come on, people.

Im not on the jury, I can use objective reasoning to establish an opinion and the "reaching for the phone" explanation just isnt flying with me. And it is to GZs direct benefit not to say he was reaching for his gun. Im not buying it...everyone can feel free to buy it if they need to or want to.

Fairly good summation, but as you point out there is some areas where it is your "opinion" and there is some "gray area". The primary issue then becomes whether you are convinced of your opinion beyond a reasonable doubt and that all gray areas are sufficiently clarified so that there is no reasonable doubt... because the Prosecution has the burden of proving every element of its case and disproving a claim of self defense beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am not sure if they can do so, but I will listen and allow them to try and convince me. I believe the most crucial time frame is what happened afterZ ended his call to the non emergency police phone line. ..as there is nothing really incriminating before then, IMHO. Not even the carrying of the gun as he was a CCW license holder and you can not convvince me he purposefully armed himself in contemplation of chasing Martin. Instead, he was armed and automatically responded to the dispatchers inquiry of "Where is he running" by getting out of the car hurredly to begin the chase.

 

[25Caliber]

Correct...hence the words "opinion" and "gray area".

But do you really think that GZ was reaching for his phone with some angry stranger charging him? GZ reaches to his right, then tells the cop he was going for his phone instead...oops i forgot where my phone was. Well when it turns out that your gun was holstered in that same spot, then what is a logical person supposed to assume you were really reaching for in that specific moment? A phone? Come on, people.

Im not on the jury, I can use objective reasoning to establish an opinion and the "reaching for the phone" explanation just isnt flying with me. And it is to GZs direct benefit not to say he was reaching for his gun. Im not buying it...everyone can feel free to buy it if they need to or want to.

Fairly good summation, but as you point out there is some areas where it is your "opinion" and there is some "gray area". The primary issue then becomes whether you are convinced of your opinion beyond a reasonable doubt and that all gray areas are sufficiently clarified so that there is no reasonable doubt... because the Prosecution has the burden of proving every element of its case and disproving a claim of self defense beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am not sure if they can do so, but I will listen and allow them to try and convince me. I believe the most crucial time frame is what happened afterZ ended his call to the non emergency police phone line. ..as there is nothing really incriminating before then, IMHO. Not even the carrying of the gun as he was a CCW license holder and you can not convvince me he purposefully armed himself in contemplation of chasing Martin. Instead, he was armed and automatically responded to the dispatchers inquiry of "Where is he running" by getting out of the car hurredly to begin the chase.

Ahh yes...great point. It is the prosecutions responsibility to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I agree they have yet to do so in court.

My speculation comes directly from GZs mouth. I have many questions for GZ that I will most likely never get the answers to.

I also agree that the most crucial time frame is after the ended call. I have referred to this in the past as the "nuts" of this case. Just who was acting in self defense? Could both of them have acted in self defense?

 

[Sunshine]

The sense of humor has left the building.

later.

Yeah Sunshine's taken over and it's just not fun watching her piss on everyone. l8r

You can get over yourself. I have as much right to be here as anyone. Sorry you don't have anything to add, but that's your problem, not mine.

 

[member]

"Zimmerman. Bigot?"

he was looking for trouble.......and went too far.

"The first was a call Zimmerman made to a nonemergency police dispatcher, who told him he didn't need to be following Martin."

that alone shows he was looking for a fight.



and this other stuff:

"Zimmerman's story, including his claim that Martin put his hands over Zimmerman's mouth and reached for the man's gun. "Guy" said none of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's body, and none of the teenager's DNA was on the weapon or the holster."

"The second 911 call, from a witness, captures screams in the distant background from the struggle between Zimmerman and Martin. Martin's parents said the screams are from their son, while Zimmerman's father contends they are his son's."

those screams are related to the case, definately sounded like a teenager. lighter vocal cords........as opposed to deeper, grown-up vocal cords.
GZ was/is a husky man. vocal cords don't match him.

"Zimmerman claims: Martin sucker-punched Zimmerman and then pounded his head against the concrete sidewalk, and that's when Zimmerman opened fire."

if that didn't happen -- wouldn't surprise me if GZ threw himself on a ROCK (face first) to inflict injuries on himself after he shot the kid.


trayvon martin.....unfortunately crossed paths with GZ. he was the victim GZ was looking for. he was just a loose cannon. personally, if it wasn't trayvon martin, it was just a matter of time before it was -- some other PERSON -- no matter what color skin.

 

[testarosa]

I've called it to report car accidents, I always get "911, police fire or EMT?" immediately...

Is this a discussion that really needs to be had? He was talking to the Sanford police department during the now-infamous transcript we're all so familiar with.

I can't even get a clear answer to whether or not the fella called 911. More commonly I hear that he called a "Sanford police non-emergency number."

Third time asking... Can anyone even confirm that he dialed 911?

You are correct. See how Z's fans love to do the twist and shout?

I swear, it's like they think he's a goddamn hero.

They think - who?

"they" said, "they" know, "they" think. Who's "They"?

I don't subscribe to "they think".

 

[legaleagle_45]

IMO, every person who carries a gun is just hoping and waiting for the opportunity to play Mighty Mouse and swoop down to "save the day". People (especially men) who feel impotent and small, at the mercy of outside forces such as their boss, spouse, etc, those are the people who are so scared of the world that they carry a gun.

You sure have a low opinion of our police and armed forces.

 

[Sunshine]

According to the last person he talked too, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, and Zimmerman responded by asking what he was doing in the neighborhood.

Thus he "confronted" a person menacing him, who answered a question with a question.

That's generally what people meaning to do you harm do..

That wasn't Zimmerman's account. Why didnt Martin just answer the question? Why did he punch Zimmerman? When someone asks you what you're doing do you take a swing at them?

Zimmerman's "account" has changed at least 5 times. It changes each time the evidence contradicts it.

Yeah, like Mz. Bahadoor's.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Yurt, don't be silly. Come knock on my door - I'll sell you a gun. Or, answer an ad on line. Or go to certain gun shows. Anyone can buy a gun and anyone can carry it "concealed" if they want to.

In order to legally carry a concealed weapon in Florida you must:

1. You must be 21 to get a conceled carry permit.
2. Have a passport-style, color photograph made.
3. Get verification of training that satisfies the training requirement. NRA, DD-14, state training course, etc. . Persons serving in the United States Armed Forces may submit a copy of their Military ID Card to satisfy the training requirement.
4. Get certified copies of court documents relating to any criminal charges against you.
5. Take the fingerprint card to a local law enforcement agency and ask to be fingerprinted. In addition to providing fingerprinting services for the traditional “hard-card” format, electronic fingerprint devices are available at almost all 67 county sheriff’s offices in the state. Visit the Electronic Fingerprints Information page to learn how Live Scan fingerprinting saves processing time.* Submitting Fingerprints Electronically - Division of Licensing, FDACS
6. Complete the application. Either print clearly with ink or type the information.
7. In the presence of a notary, sign application.**
8. Submit a check or money order for the license fee of $117

To equate a person who is legally authorized to carry a concealed weapon with a criminal is similar to equating a person who makes a withdrawl from their bank with John Dillinger.

 

[mudwhistle]

I thought I had seen Trayvan's GF before........

 

[Sarah G]

When is the defense going to point out that the screams for help continued after the gunshot was heard...was Trayvon in a condition to continue screaming...or was he dead?

They won't say it because it didn't happen. You're ridiculous.

 

[Swear_to_tell]

50-year-old female with a CCW. Carry a 380. Always a safety on and not with a bullet in the chamber unless I'm really really ready to fire. No safety on. Bullet in chamber. You mean business.

 

[Snookie]

I've called it to report car accidents, I always get "911, police fire or EMT?" immediately...

Is this a discussion that really needs to be had? He was talking to the Sanford police department during the now-infamous transcript we're all so familiar with.

I can't even get a clear answer to whether or not the fella called 911. More commonly I hear that he called a "Sanford police non-emergency number."

Third time asking... Can anyone even confirm that he dialed 911?

You are correct. See how Z's fans love to do the twist and shout?

I swear, it's like they think he's a goddamn hero.

He is a hero to the haters.

 

[Snookie]

You are correct. See how Z's fans love to do the twist and shout?

I swear, it's like they think he's a goddamn hero.

They think - who?

"they" said, "they" know, "they" think. Who's "They"?

I don't subscribe to "they think".

View attachment 26606

Don't be coy, Roy.

 

[Snookie]

50-year-old female with a CCW. Carry a 380. Always a safety on and not with a bullet in the chamber unless I'm really really ready to fire. No safety on. Bullet in chamber. You mean business.

Another thing. That type of gun has a hard trigger pull for safety. It can't accidently go off like a hair trigger.