The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Snookie]

Seriously you think they have separate dispatchers for police, fire, ambulance? Unless someone has been deputized they are not 'the police.' I work in health care. I know these people. There has been so much criticism about 911 dispatchers who weren't able to handle a medical emergency that they are paramedics. They will send the police, they will send an ambulance, they will give you simple instructions of what to do at t he scene of a medical problem if it looks like you can help. But they are not 'the police.'

Having worked in an outpatient setting, we call 911 in case of a medical emergency because we don't have equipment there to handle it. When a psych patient threatens we call the police. Dispatchers are the same. Paramedics.

No but they are trained in police procedure. They have a close relationship with police and vica versa.

Meaning, they are not the police, and cannot act under the color of law. Only those who are deputized may act under the color of law.

Then, why bother calling them in an emergency?

Knock off the sophistry.

 

[Cuyo]

And in essence, they ARE calling the police.

You think a person having a heart attack calls the police. Groovy.

There are multile reasons to call 9-11. I have called it for the police and I have called it for a stroke.

I've called it to report car accidents, I always get "911, police fire or EMT?" immediately...

Is this a discussion that really needs to be had? He was talking to the Sanford police department during the now-infamous transcript we're all so familiar with.

I can't even get a clear answer to whether or not the fella called 911. More commonly I hear that he called a "Sanford police non-emergency number."

Third time asking... Can anyone even confirm that he dialed 911?

 

[testarosa]

sophistry™

 

[Snookie]

sophistry™

Yes, do you need a dictionary or are you being obtuse?

 

[Snookie]

You think a person having a heart attack calls the police. Groovy.

There are multile reasons to call 9-11. I have called it for the police and I have called it for a stroke.

I've called it to report car accidents, I always get "911, police fire or EMT?" immediately...

Is this a discussion that really needs to be had? He was talking to the Sanford police department during the now-infamous transcript we're all so familiar with.

I can't even get a clear answer to whether or not the fella called 911. More commonly I hear that he called a "Sanford police non-emergency number."

Third time asking... Can anyone even confirm that he dialed 911?

You are correct. See how Z's fans love to do the twist and shout?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Why isn't the thugs that killed the white man with hammers being reported? Are we going to see up to the minute court updates???

 

[Sunshine]

Correct...most people believe that when they call 911 they are calling the police.

Seriously you think they have separate dispatchers for police, fire, ambulance? Unless someone has been deputized they are not 'the police.' I work in health care. I know these people. There has been so much criticism about 911 dispatchers who weren't able to handle a medical emergency that they are paramedics. They will send the police, they will send an ambulance, they will give you simple instructions of what to do at t he scene of a medical problem if it looks like you can help. But they are not 'the police.'

Having worked in an outpatient setting, we call 911 in case of a medical emergency because we don't have equipment there to handle it. When a psych patient threatens we call the police. Dispatchers are the same. Paramedics.

I think you are taking it a little too literally...when someone calls 911 because of a prowler, then they believe they are calling the police.

If I call 911 for an ambulance because I just broke my leg then Im assuming they can help me also.

Thats all. In this case it was a suspicious person...so many would think that calling 911 is calling the police.

I am very aware that 911 handles a variety of emergency calls.

I have worked with 911 people for years. Most people are as unfamiliar with that part of the system as they are with the system in general. Unless you have the number of the police department, you are not calling the police department. There have been times that I HAVE called the sheriff directly and not through 911 because the reason I was calling was not an emergency. In fact, I called just a couple of weeks ago when I went to the cemetery and found our monument had been displaced. I just wanted to see if there had been any vandalism in the area, or if it was more likely the person mowing the cemetery who did it. That is not a 911 call, and you can find the direct number for your police department on the web unless you live in Upper Butt Fuck.

Zimmerman may have called directly to the police, but if that has been established as the case, I have not read it. That is the only instance his call would have gone directly to them. And it certainly sounds as if he slowed down and stopped following when the person on the other end of the line said, 'we don't need you to do that.' ( Which BTW is not an order. It is a mere statement.)

 

[testarosa]

The sense of humor has left the building.

later.

 

[Sunshine]

And in essence, they ARE calling the police.

You think a person having a heart attack calls the police. Groovy.

There are multile reasons to call 9-11. I have called it for the police and I have called it for a stroke.

And it doesn't read your mind and direct you to the service you need. There is a global answering system.

 

[Sunshine]

You think a person having a heart attack calls the police. Groovy.

There are multile reasons to call 9-11. I have called it for the police and I have called it for a stroke.

I've called it to report car accidents, I always get "911, police fire or EMT?" immediately...

Is this a discussion that really needs to be had? He was talking to the Sanford police department during the now-infamous transcript we're all so familiar with.

I can't even get a clear answer to whether or not the fella called 911. More commonly I hear that he called a "Sanford police non-emergency number."

Third time asking... Can anyone even confirm that he dialed 911?

This conversation is taking place because the TM diehard fans are claiming that Zimmerman was given an 'order' to stop following. He was not. The person simply said, 'we don't need you to do that.' And then the tape validates that he slowed down and stopped.

 

[Sarah G]

Was there a curfew?

And thus far NOTHING indicates this "new theory" that Martin "double backed" to confront Zimmerman.

In fact..thus far the evidence shows that Martin was running away from the Crazy Ass Cracker.

Martin stated that he lost the young man during the call with the dispatcher so the only way the confrontation happened was if Martin double backed.
You're telling me that some pudgy middle aged guy chased down this young athletic man?

Telling you?

Those are the facts.

Zimmerman has also lied several times about what happened.

In the first iteration of his "story" Martin "cold cocked" him as he left the car to check the address. That turned out to be a complete lie. Subsequent Zimmerman stories have Martin struggling for the gun and telling Zimmerman that he was going to kill him

Bottom line?

I don't believe anything Zimmerman says.

He got it wrong over 5 times.

These guys have an entirely different set of "facts" that they've pulled out of the sky or some whacko website.

There are certain facts they can't explain though. No blood on Martin's hands even after swabbing under his fingernails. No defensive bruises or wounds on Trevon's hands or arms. The person who was the aggressor and on top in the scuffle, got up. The other one was laying dead on the ground.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

When I call 911 they answer "911, what is your emergency?" If it's not an emergency, and you're calling regarding a police matter, they give you the nonemergency number for the police.

If you say, "I think I'm having a heart attack," that person stays on the line with you while they "dispatch" the paramedics (that's why it's called dispatch).

If you say "Someone is breaking into my house!" that person stays on the line with you while they "dispatch" the police.

if you say "My house is on fire!" that person stays on the line with you while they dispatch the fire department.

Those of us who say that "in essence" when you call 911 you are calling "the police" understand all of the above nuances.

It's not something that an intelligent person sits around and analyzes to death, Sunshine.

 

[RKMBrown]

The sense of humor has left the building.

later.

Yeah Sunshine's taken over and it's just not fun watching her piss on everyone. l8r

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

There are multile reasons to call 9-11. I have called it for the police and I have called it for a stroke.

I've called it to report car accidents, I always get "911, police fire or EMT?" immediately...

Is this a discussion that really needs to be had? He was talking to the Sanford police department during the now-infamous transcript we're all so familiar with.

I can't even get a clear answer to whether or not the fella called 911. More commonly I hear that he called a "Sanford police non-emergency number."

Third time asking... Can anyone even confirm that he dialed 911?

This conversation is taking place because the TM diehard fans are claiming that Zimmerman was given an 'order' to stop following. He was not. The person simply said, 'we don't need you to do that.' And then the tape validates that he slowed down and stopped.

Most people don't seem to be saying he was "given an order" to stop following. Most people seem to be saying he was "told" to stop following.

It was, in fact, suggested to him that they didn't need him to follow Martin. Nobody is saying they ORDERED him not to follow Martin.

However, a reasonable and prudent person who cared about doing the right thing will follow the suggestions of the emergency dispatch personnel. Because, however lowly you might think these people are, it is obvious that they are well-trained and knowledgeable and most of the time we should probably tend to follow their suggestions in an emergency situation.

Which makes me think he was NOT talking to 911, because this surely wasn't an emergency and he should have known better than to bother 911 with this.

I'm going to get a headache from trying to explain all this simple stuff, I swear.

 

[25Caliber]

Hi 25 caliber. Here is a transcript of the key portion of the police call with Zimmerman:

Up until Zimmerman states "Shit, he is running" there is no dispute that Zimmerman was in his vehicle.. When Zimmerman says "The back entrance ... fucking [unintelligible]" there is also no dispute that Zimmerman is in the process of leaving his vehicle for the first time in the phone call.

If I was representing Zimmerman, the argument that I would make is that when the dispatcher replied to Zimmermans exclamation "Shit, he is running" with "He's running? Which way is he running?" Zimmerman took that as a directive to follow Martin and report where Martin was headed.

Latter, when the dispatcher discerns that Zimmerman is running because of the sounds of heavy breathing and the wind (not to mention the sounds of wet grass) he asks "Are you following him?'. Zimmerman responds "Yeah", the dispatcher says "OK we don't need you to do that". At that point you can tell Zimmerman is slowing down and comes to a stop a few seconds thereafter.

Thus the defense will argue, far from ignoring the dispatcher, Zimmerman believed he was following the express direction of the dispatcher

I agree with you. I have stated as much in previous posts using the same transcript.

I think that this went from an apparent chase (running after) to following and observing from a distance.

It was dark and GZ knew the cops were on the way and he didnt want to lose the approximate location of Trayvon.

My point is that he is following someone suspicious carrying a gun. The dispatch did not have that little tidbit of information or I think they would have been more direct in making sure he not only didnt follow, but that he was out of the area and waiting for police.

Im following a suspicious teen in the dark and rain...Im carrying a gun...what should I do at this point. I dont think most rational people would advise him to keep pursuing...this could get ugly...or it has the possibility of getting ugly.

As it turns out, on this occasion, GZs suspicion was wrong. Hes been right before, but he was wrong this time. The kid was just going home to watch the all star game. It was getting dark and raining and he put his hoody up to protect his head.

He had a right to be suspicious...I have made that point before. But his suspicion was wrong in this case.

I would just like to see some objectivity in the forum. Race divides and it puts the blinders on rational thought.

If this were two white people or two black people, then I believe there would be a much more diverse opinion on what should and should not have been done.

Its why I hate the race card being played. People will immediately look to find every reason why their color was right, responsible and legal in what they did. Logic sometimes takes a back seat. Im guilty of this myself. The tendency is to get defensive.

BTW, thanks for the respectful post [MENTION=43021]legaleagle_45[/MENTION]

Your argument that a person who was within his rights is somehow partly 'responsible' is like saying that if you get out in your car and someone runs a stop sign and hits you, then you are partly responsible because you were out in your car.

Not quite...interpreting my posts requires some objective thinking. Those not prepared to do that will have a tuff time understanding.

If that was your son in the grass face down, im sure you could find it within yourself to drum up some responsibility to GZ.

He is following someone who had committed no crime in the dark and rain carrying a pistol. When confronted of his reasoning, he doesnt identify himself, he doesnt defuse the situation...he panicks and goes reaching. He did not do everything exactly right for the situation that night.

No it is not illegal to walk on the sidewalk at night in the rain. It requires a bit of deep thinking here. Put it this way...if GZ is ever following one of my kids at night in the dark...he better watch his back.

 

[testarosa]

There are multile reasons to call 9-11. I have called it for the police and I have called it for a stroke.

I've called it to report car accidents, I always get "911, police fire or EMT?" immediately...

Is this a discussion that really needs to be had? He was talking to the Sanford police department during the now-infamous transcript we're all so familiar with.

I can't even get a clear answer to whether or not the fella called 911. More commonly I hear that he called a "Sanford police non-emergency number."

Third time asking... Can anyone even confirm that he dialed 911?

This conversation is taking place because the TM diehard fans are claiming that Zimmerman was given an 'order' to stop following. He was not. The person simply said, 'we don't need you to do that.' And then the tape validates that he slowed down and stopped.

I was wondering. Thanks for clearing it up. The ride was going around and around and I was about to puke.

 

[beagle9]

I don't see how the prosecution loses. If Zimmerman leaves the vehicle; he's no longer standing his ground--especially if he's going looking for Martin.

If the Prosecution can put Zimmerman outside of his vehicle, Zimmerman cannot claim castle doctrine. So that is it for his case.

Is it not allowed for a watchmen to leave his vehicle or post for surveillance purposes, and this within the community he was charged to watch by that community ? Just asking... I am not sure what his job contained as far as surveillance goes, or what he was supposed to do when saw a potential suspect at night in the rain walking, and especially if said suspect looked suspicious all by his limited training he had in this respect. I think it was a perfect storm that came together possibly, of a miss-identification on both the individuals parts upon who exactly it was that either person was dealing with that night. The case should be studied for future do's and don'ts in a situation like this, and it sure will shed a better light on how such a watch program is badly flawed, thus placing two individuals at odd's with each other, when they should have never been at odd's with each other to begin with.

 

[Cuyo]

There are multile reasons to call 9-11. I have called it for the police and I have called it for a stroke.

I've called it to report car accidents, I always get "911, police fire or EMT?" immediately...

Is this a discussion that really needs to be had? He was talking to the Sanford police department during the now-infamous transcript we're all so familiar with.

I can't even get a clear answer to whether or not the fella called 911. More commonly I hear that he called a "Sanford police non-emergency number."

Third time asking... Can anyone even confirm that he dialed 911?

You are correct. See how Z's fans love to do the twist and shout?

I swear, it's like they think he's a goddamn hero.

 

[Missourian]

1) I think she said that there were others responsible for texting him on her phone...she also mentioned that she was not his girlfriend and that he was in a relationship with another girl...as far as the convo leading up to the killing, It was just her account...I dont believe she mentioned anyone else for that time span in particular.

2) Yes she did say she heard others in the background that could calm the situation....she basically just blew it off and never even checked up on the situation...she also stated that she thought his father could help him.

Thank you. It was very hard to follow her. I also felt like she said that he got away from him and was at his house. However, the altercation took place some distance away from his home. Would that not substantiate the defendant's account of what happened? I feel if she was supposed to show anything beyond a reasonable doubt, she really failed. Just my opinion if I was in the box.

Based on all of the information received from her and zimmerman.

1) Trayvon was followed
2) Trayvon ran through the courtyard and behind a building
3) GZ got out of his truck and started running so he wouldnt lose him and his location
4) GZ got to the courtyard (where the T in the sidewalk connects) looked around and couldnt see him (hes gone).
5) GZ is continuing to talk to dispatch and continues to walk up the T to the road...looks around again and cant see him
6) GZ starts to walk back in the direction he came in at.
7) GZ gets back to the cross in the T and he hears Trayvon ask him "is there a problem" or "why are you following me?"...Trayvon is coming at GZ at this point.
8) GZ tells them "he doesnt have a problem"
9) GZ goes to reach for what he says was his phone in his right side coat or pants pocket
10) As GZ is reaching for the "phone", Trayvon punches him in the nose and GZ stumbles to the ground
11) Trayvon jumps on top of him and there is a struggle
12) During the struggle Trayvon begin bashing Zimmermans head in the ground and GZ starts yelling for help
13) Neighbor hears the commotion and comes out to look...says hes calling 911...GZ says "no help me"
14) Neighbor says no Im calling 911
15) seconds after neighbor is on the phone GZ is screaming for help, there is a struggle and at some point the gun is exposed.
16) GZ manages to pull the gun out and quickly shoots trayvon in the heart and instantly kills him.
17) GZ pushes the body off of him and Trayvon is now dead face first in the grass.

Was Trayvon followed? Yes.

Was he committing a crime? No

Did GZ have a right to be suspicious? Yes

Could Trayvon have made it home instead? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to be irritated with someone following him? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to ask the person following him why? Yes
____________________________________________________________
When approached, was GZ reaching for his phone before he got punched? IMO...NO...he was scared and panicked and was most likely going for his gun.

--I mean c'mon here. GZ cant have it both ways, imo. If he wants us to believe what he is saying, then its tuff to believe that GZ is reaching for a phone with some angry guy charging him...especially when the gun is exactly where he said he was reaching. Why grab your phone? The cops are on the way...aint nobody gonna help you that quick....he instinctively was going for his gun because he was in fear of a fight...this is common sense, IMO. Sorry you dont follow someone in the dark relentlessly even running after them at one point, and then when confronted pull out your gun. Essentially, you are admitting you shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Did trayvon have a right to punch someone who had been following him and is now reaching for something in his pocket in a panic? IMO, hell yes!

Is it within reason that GZ feared serious injury from being punched and having head bashed into the concrete? Yes.

This is the gray area...does the person following and pursuing someone in the dark and then when approached reaches for or in the area of what turns out to be a gun holstered on his right side have a right to claim self defense?

My opinion? GZ should not have been following someone in the dark on the phone with 911 carrying a pistol...hes not a cop...if you are going to follow, then leave the gun in the car...if you dont think you can follow safety without the gun...THEN DONT FOLLOW.

Trayvon is dead and cant defend himself in court or testify to what he heard or seen on GZ that night. IMO GZ should serve several years for manslaughter...not M2...GZ was not looking to go kill someone that night...he was trying to protect the neighborhood...but in doing it acted irresponsible and with bad judgment. I would give him a 10 year sentence...time off with good behavior hes out in 5 years...that puts him somewhere around 35 yrs old and the rest of his life to live, but he should be punished for using bad judgment and following a person with a gun.

I was with you right up to the red line...after that, it's total speculation.

 

[25Caliber]

Thank you. It was very hard to follow her. I also felt like she said that he got away from him and was at his house. However, the altercation took place some distance away from his home. Would that not substantiate the defendant's account of what happened? I feel if she was supposed to show anything beyond a reasonable doubt, she really failed. Just my opinion if I was in the box.

Based on all of the information received from her and zimmerman.

1) Trayvon was followed
2) Trayvon ran through the courtyard and behind a building
3) GZ got out of his truck and started running so he wouldnt lose him and his location
4) GZ got to the courtyard (where the T in the sidewalk connects) looked around and couldnt see him (hes gone).
5) GZ is continuing to talk to dispatch and continues to walk up the T to the road...looks around again and cant see him
6) GZ starts to walk back in the direction he came in at.
7) GZ gets back to the cross in the T and he hears Trayvon ask him "is there a problem" or "why are you following me?"...Trayvon is coming at GZ at this point.
8) GZ tells them "he doesnt have a problem"
9) GZ goes to reach for what he says was his phone in his right side coat or pants pocket
10) As GZ is reaching for the "phone", Trayvon punches him in the nose and GZ stumbles to the ground
11) Trayvon jumps on top of him and there is a struggle
12) During the struggle Trayvon begin bashing Zimmermans head in the ground and GZ starts yelling for help
13) Neighbor hears the commotion and comes out to look...says hes calling 911...GZ says "no help me"
14) Neighbor says no Im calling 911
15) seconds after neighbor is on the phone GZ is screaming for help, there is a struggle and at some point the gun is exposed.
16) GZ manages to pull the gun out and quickly shoots trayvon in the heart and instantly kills him.
17) GZ pushes the body off of him and Trayvon is now dead face first in the grass.

Was Trayvon followed? Yes.

Was he committing a crime? No

Did GZ have a right to be suspicious? Yes

Could Trayvon have made it home instead? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to be irritated with someone following him? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to ask the person following him why? Yes
____________________________________________________________
When approached, was GZ reaching for his phone before he got punched? IMO...NO...he was scared and panicked and was most likely going for his gun.

--I mean c'mon here. GZ cant have it both ways, imo. If he wants us to believe what he is saying, then its tuff to believe that GZ is reaching for a phone with some angry guy charging him...especially when the gun is exactly where he said he was reaching. Why grab your phone? The cops are on the way...aint nobody gonna help you that quick....he instinctively was going for his gun because he was in fear of a fight...this is common sense, IMO. Sorry you dont follow someone in the dark relentlessly even running after them at one point, and then when confronted pull out your gun. Essentially, you are admitting you shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Did trayvon have a right to punch someone who had been following him and is now reaching for something in his pocket in a panic? IMO, hell yes!

Is it within reason that GZ feared serious injury from being punched and having head bashed into the concrete? Yes.

This is the gray area...does the person following and pursuing someone in the dark and then when approached reaches for or in the area of what turns out to be a gun holstered on his right side have a right to claim self defense?

My opinion? GZ should not have been following someone in the dark on the phone with 911 carrying a pistol...hes not a cop...if you are going to follow, then leave the gun in the car...if you dont think you can follow safety without the gun...THEN DONT FOLLOW.

Trayvon is dead and cant defend himself in court or testify to what he heard or seen on GZ that night. IMO GZ should serve several years for manslaughter...not M2...GZ was not looking to go kill someone that night...he was trying to protect the neighborhood...but in doing it acted irresponsible and with bad judgment. I would give him a 10 year sentence...time off with good behavior hes out in 5 years...that puts him somewhere around 35 yrs old and the rest of his life to live, but he should be punished for using bad judgment and following a person with a gun.

I was with you right up to the red line...after that, it's total speculation.

Correct...hence the words "opinion" and "gray area".

But do you really think that GZ was reaching for his phone with some angry stranger charging him? GZ reaches to his right, then tells the cop he was going for his phone instead...oops i forgot where my phone was. Well when it turns out that your gun was holstered in that same spot, then what is a logical person supposed to assume you were really reaching for in that specific moment? A phone? Come on, people.

Im not on the jury, I can use objective reasoning to establish an opinion and the "reaching for the phone" explanation just isnt flying with me. And it is to GZs direct benefit not to say he was reaching for his gun. Im not buying it...everyone can feel free to buy it if they need to or want to.