The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Gracie]

I came home from work one night after doing a night shift. Someone was sculking around my husbands car, then ran into the yard behind some bushes. I saw all this when my headlights hit him. I calmly got out of my car and left the headlights on and walked to the front door. As I was walking I said clearly "I am packing. I will shoot your fucking ass. I suggest you hightail it". I did not stop walking. When I got to the front door, I heard rustling and hasty feet beating ass out of there. I damn sure was not going to go sneaking up to see who it was. I didn't care. I wanted to get INSIDE where I would be safe.

Why didn't Martin go home and then call police? Oh. Wait. I know. Cuz he isn't a pussy. Gotcha.

That's a good point.

Why didn't Zimmerman do the same? He was packing. If he was trying to prevent a crime, that's a proper way to do it. Zimmerman was stupid. He wanted the assumed criminal caught, and as it turns out Martin wasn't committing any crime (even if he was casing condos, he'd never be convicted for being a curious teen).

Agreed. To a certain extent. He belongs to a NWP. He was off duty, so to speak. But he saw someone that he did not recognize, so he followed him. He did all that he was supposed to do..he called the cops WHILE following this guy to see what he was up to. I would have done the same for my neighborhood. And if whomever I was following attacked me, and I was packing...you bet I'd shoot his ass.

 

[SantaFeWay]

So wait a minute is she credible or uncredible? Just for arguments sake I just want to say that if someone was following me I would not lead them back to my house. And because teenagers are generally stupid I don't find it unreasonable or out of the realm of possibility that a natural response would be to ask why you are being followed even for myself. What happened after that and why the situation escalated is any ones guess.

I'd really like to know what you guys think about this link
The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

I'll believe the testimony she gave that is corroborated by other evidence. She said she told TM to run and she heard him running. TM tells her he lost the "creepy ass cracker" and was at his father's fiancee's condo. Then she says hears TM asking GZ, "what you following me for?"

This is corroborated by or corroborates GZ's account where he says he lost TM and was headed back to his truck when TM showed up again and spoke to him. Not sure what she was talking about most of the time either, but what she did say fit with GZ's account too.

 

[Tink]

So when you were close to your house would you go inside or double back to sneak up on the guy who was following you?

Would you lead them back to your house?

Hard to say. I certainly wouldn't head back to where he was. Maybe I wouldn't go home, but I wouldn't sneak up on the guy either.

Unless I wanted to prove that I wasn't a pussy - for whatever that is worth.

Ok I'll admit I haven't had the time to watch most of this trial but I keep seeing you guys say he snuck up on George where are you getting this from?

 

[jon_berzerk]

The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

There is no way GZ could pull his gun as described. On his back with his holster against his hip, his holster inside his waistband, while being pinned by TM who is supposedly straddling him.

This position means TM”s legs are blocking access to GZ’s waist area (especially if he wiggles ‘downward’ through the straddling legs), as well as the ground and clothing making it impossible to reach and pull a gun.

In this position you cannot pull a gun on a wet and rainy night without some evidence on the gun. But the fact is GZ’s elbow is too long to reach his waist since he claimed to be pinning TM’s arm while attempting this trick.

Impossible

The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims


Will there be an expert to explain this? Could make a difference.

He wasn't "pinned" according to the testimony. His hips were against the ground, but he could rotate and reach. And then there is the possibility that the holster moved enough to provide access to the gun.

and from john goodes testimony

the moved along the ground up on to the sidewalk

 

[Gracie]

All we have right now is conjecture and guesswork, a moron witness with an attitude, racsim due to said moron repeating what Martin called Zimmerman, and a dead person.

 

[Tink]

The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

There is no way GZ could pull his gun as described. On his back with his holster against his hip, his holster inside his waistband, while being pinned by TM who is supposedly straddling him.

This position means TM”s legs are blocking access to GZ’s waist area (especially if he wiggles ‘downward’ through the straddling legs), as well as the ground and clothing making it impossible to reach and pull a gun.

In this position you cannot pull a gun on a wet and rainy night without some evidence on the gun. But the fact is GZ’s elbow is too long to reach his waist since he claimed to be pinning TM’s arm while attempting this trick.

Impossible

The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims


Will there be an expert to explain this? Could make a difference.

He wasn't "pinned" according to the testimony. His hips were against the ground, but he could rotate and reach. And then there is the possibility that the holster moved enough to provide access to the gun.

If he could rotate and reach why didn't he rotate out of the grip, did he warn him he had a gun? Why not rotate and reach and shoot the kid in the hand or leg or you know somewhere less fatal?

 

[Jackson]

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

she was impeached on several statements

the jury will be told they can use some of her remaining testimony

or disregard it

I personally think it's disingenuous to use any of her testimony, most couldn't be understood, some she admitted lying and she didn't want to be there which gives one the impression she didn't care what she said. Too bad for either side, but neither side can pick their witnesses.

For the best information for the prosecution side, look at post #3817.

 

[Tink]

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

I'll believe the testimony she gave that is corroborated by other evidence. She said she told TM to run and she heard him running. TM tells her he lost the "creepy ass cracker" and was at his father's fiancee's condo. Then she says hears TM asking GZ, "what you following me for?"

This is corroborated by or corroborates GZ's account where he says he lost TM and was headed back to his truck when TM showed up again and spoke to him. Not sure what she was talking about most of the time either, but what she did say fit with GZ's account too.

Before I dispute this without having all the info let me ask this where was GZ's truck in relation to where the fight was? I know they were about 100 yrd from TMs house but not sure where the truck is in relation to this.

 

[asterism]

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

How does someone being scared prove or disprove murder? That makes no sense.

It adds emotion to the tragedy, which influences a jury. It's why the family lawyer and supporters are sporting the pictures of a 12 year old Trayvon instead of his "no_limit_nigga" pictures.

 

[Gracie]

Would you lead them back to your house?

Hard to say. I certainly wouldn't head back to where he was. Maybe I wouldn't go home, but I wouldn't sneak up on the guy either.

Unless I wanted to prove that I wasn't a pussy - for whatever that is worth.

Ok I'll admit I haven't had the time to watch most of this trial but I keep seeing you guys say he snuck up on George where are you getting this from?

Moron Witness said he made it safely to his dads house. Then Moron Witness said he called her back and she heard Wet Grass, mumble mumble, he do this, he do that..she heard a bump, more gobbledegoop, etc. Which means..if he got home safe...why was he back out in the T area confronting Zimmerman, who was heading back to his car?

I know I know!!!

Martin went back to confront creepy ass cracker not knowing creepy ass cracker was packin'.

 

[SantaFeWay]

How does someone being scared prove or disprove murder? That makes no sense.

Maybe if TM was scared, and not boldly coming back to confront GZ and punch him in the nose as some think, then it was TM not GZ who was acting in self defense. In which case, GZ would have been the aggressor, not TM, and therefore GZ could not lawfully claim self defense since he was the instigator of the confrontation. So it would disprove self defense more than it would prove murder, KWIM?

 

[Tink]

Hard to say. I certainly wouldn't head back to where he was. Maybe I wouldn't go home, but I wouldn't sneak up on the guy either.

Unless I wanted to prove that I wasn't a pussy - for whatever that is worth.

Ok I'll admit I haven't had the time to watch most of this trial but I keep seeing you guys say he snuck up on George where are you getting this from?

Moron Witness said he made it safely to his dads house. Then Moron Witness said he called her back and she heard Wet Grass, mumble mumble, he do this, he do that..she heard a bump, more gobbledegoop, etc. Which means..if he got home safe...why was he back out in the T area confronting Zimmerman, who was heading back to his car?

I know I know!!!

Martin went back to confront creepy ass cracker not knowing creepy ass cracker was packin'.

I think it's unfair to insult the witness. The poor girl is a witness, its not her fault she is poorly educated and needs speech therapy nor is that a requirement. At the end of the day she lost her friend and she was the last person to be speaking to him that has to be traumatizing. But I digress, I did listen to her testimony I must have missed the part where she said he made it home I did hear her say he lost him I thought she said he was hiding in a corner or something like that. Either way this to me doesn't say that he doubled back, he may well have but it's also possible GZ caught up to him and that's when he asked why you following me?

 

[asterism]

I came home from work one night after doing a night shift. Someone was sculking around my husbands car, then ran into the yard behind some bushes. I saw all this when my headlights hit him. I calmly got out of my car and left the headlights on and walked to the front door. As I was walking I said clearly "I am packing. I will shoot your fucking ass. I suggest you hightail it". I did not stop walking. When I got to the front door, I heard rustling and hasty feet beating ass out of there. I damn sure was not going to go sneaking up to see who it was. I didn't care. I wanted to get INSIDE where I would be safe.

Why didn't Martin go home and then call police? Oh. Wait. I know. Cuz he isn't a pussy. Gotcha.

That's a good point.

Why didn't Zimmerman do the same? He was packing. If he was trying to prevent a crime, that's a proper way to do it. Zimmerman was stupid. He wanted the assumed criminal caught, and as it turns out Martin wasn't committing any crime (even if he was casing condos, he'd never be convicted for being a curious teen).

Agreed. To a certain extent. He belongs to a NWP. He was off duty, so to speak. But he saw someone that he did not recognize, so he followed him. He did all that he was supposed to do..he called the cops WHILE following this guy to see what he was up to. I would have done the same for my neighborhood. And if whomever I was following attacked me, and I was packing...you bet I'd shoot his ass.

Zimmerman obviously did not do what he was supposed to do. He improperly followed Martin, who ended up being a stupid thug teenager and then he got his ass kicked. If he did was he was supposed to do, that wouldn't have happened. Martin wasn't some trained criminal, he was a stupid thug kid. While it's sad that he brought his fists to a gun fight, Zimmerman should not have ever put himself in that situation.

Zimmerman walks or dies in prison based on the evidence of who started the altercation and whether he reasonably believed he was going to die.

If you're going to patrol your neighborhood, educate yourself and get some training on how to do it. He was a grown man, he should be held responsible for the results of his actions.

 

[Jackson]

Hard to say. I certainly wouldn't head back to where he was. Maybe I wouldn't go home, but I wouldn't sneak up on the guy either.

Unless I wanted to prove that I wasn't a pussy - for whatever that is worth.

Ok I'll admit I haven't had the time to watch most of this trial but I keep seeing you guys say he snuck up on George where are you getting this from?

Moron Witness said he made it safely to his dads house. Then Moron Witness said he called her back and she heard Wet Grass, mumble mumble, he do this, he do that..she heard a bump, more gobbledegoop, etc. Which means..if he got home safe...why was he back out in the T area confronting Zimmerman, who was heading back to his car?

I know I know!!!

Martin went back to confront creepy ass cracker not knowing creepy ass cracker was packin'.

Now, you couldn't be biased could you?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Reasonable doubt as defined was just verified by the mumbling, overweight, teen.

I'm sure her weight issue is a thyroid problem.

Or perhaps her education is such her weekly pay can afford reams of Chicken and bacon

IDK

-Geaux

She can speak three languages. English is her THIRD...


You?

And it would be great if she could speak just one of them well enough for her court appearance.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Ok I'll admit I haven't had the time to watch most of this trial but I keep seeing you guys say he snuck up on George where are you getting this from?

Moron Witness said he made it safely to his dads house. Then Moron Witness said he called her back and she heard Wet Grass, mumble mumble, he do this, he do that..she heard a bump, more gobbledegoop, etc. Which means..if he got home safe...why was he back out in the T area confronting Zimmerman, who was heading back to his car?

I know I know!!!

Martin went back to confront creepy ass cracker not knowing creepy ass cracker was packin'.

I think it's unfair to insult the witness. The poor girl is a witness, its not her fault she is poorly educated and needs speech therapy nor is that a requirement. At the end of the day she lost her friend and she was the last person to be speaking to him that has to be traumatizing. But I digress, I did listen to her testimony I must have missed the part where she said he made it home I did hear her say he lost him I thought she said he was hiding in a corner or something like that. Either way this to me doesn't say that he doubled back, he may well have but it's also possible GZ caught up to him and that's when he asked why you following me?

the debris field does not reflect zimmerman catching up to martin

 

[SantaFeWay]

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

I'll believe the testimony she gave that is corroborated by other evidence. She said she told TM to run and she heard him running. TM tells her he lost the "creepy ass cracker" and was at his father's fiancee's condo. Then she says hears TM asking GZ, "what you following me for?"

This is corroborated by or corroborates GZ's account where he says he lost TM and was headed back to his truck when TM showed up again and spoke to him. Not sure what she was talking about most of the time either, but what she did say fit with GZ's account too.

Before I dispute this without having all the info let me ask this where was GZ's truck in relation to where the fight was? I know they were about 100 yrd from TMs house but not sure where the truck is in relation to this.

Some sources (wiki) say TM lay dead 70 yds. from the condo he was staying in. If you see the diagram of the complex, there was a "T" footpath that ran behind the condos where residents walked their dogs. The confrontation took place on that path. I'm sorry I don't know the answer to where the truck was, just saw the diagram. It looked to ME that GZ was closer to his truck than TM was to "his" condo at the time of the confrontation.

 

[Jackson]

That's a good point.

Why didn't Zimmerman do the same? He was packing. If he was trying to prevent a crime, that's a proper way to do it. Zimmerman was stupid. He wanted the assumed criminal caught, and as it turns out Martin wasn't committing any crime (even if he was casing condos, he'd never be convicted for being a curious teen).

Agreed. To a certain extent. He belongs to a NWP. He was off duty, so to speak. But he saw someone that he did not recognize, so he followed him. He did all that he was supposed to do..he called the cops WHILE following this guy to see what he was up to. I would have done the same for my neighborhood. And if whomever I was following attacked me, and I was packing...you bet I'd shoot his ass.

Zimmerman obviously did not do what he was supposed to do. He improperly followed Martin, who ended up being a stupid thug teenager and then he got his ass kicked. If he did was he was supposed to do, that wouldn't have happened. Martin wasn't some trained criminal, he was a stupid thug kid. While it's sad that he brought his fists to a gun fight, Zimmerman should not have ever put himself in that situation.

Zimmerman walks or dies in prison based on the evidence of who started the altercation and whether he reasonably believed he was going to die.

If you're going to patrol your neighborhood, educate yourself and get some training on how to do it. He was a grown man, he should be held responsible for the results of his actions.

This is the most reasonable post of the evening.

 

[asterism]

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

I'll believe the testimony she gave that is corroborated by other evidence. She said she told TM to run and she heard him running. TM tells her he lost the "creepy ass cracker" and was at his father's fiancee's condo. Then she says hears TM asking GZ, "what you following me for?"

This is corroborated by or corroborates GZ's account where he says he lost TM and was headed back to his truck when TM showed up again and spoke to him. Not sure what she was talking about most of the time either, but what she did say fit with GZ's account too.

That is the crux of the case. Who started the altercation?

In a manslaughter case that would not be an issue. Zimmerman would be held responsible for getting out of the truck with his gun.

 

[Tink]

I'll believe the testimony she gave that is corroborated by other evidence. She said she told TM to run and she heard him running. TM tells her he lost the "creepy ass cracker" and was at his father's fiancee's condo. Then she says hears TM asking GZ, "what you following me for?"

This is corroborated by or corroborates GZ's account where he says he lost TM and was headed back to his truck when TM showed up again and spoke to him. Not sure what she was talking about most of the time either, but what she did say fit with GZ's account too.

Before I dispute this without having all the info let me ask this where was GZ's truck in relation to where the fight was? I know they were about 100 yrd from TMs house but not sure where the truck is in relation to this.

Some sources (wiki) say TM lay dead 70 yds. from the condo he was staying in. If you see the diagram of the complex, there was a "T" path that ran behind the condos where residents walked their dogs. The confrontation took place on that path. I'm sorry I don't know the answer to where the truck was, just saw the diagram. It looked to ME that GZ was closer to his truck than TM was to "his" condo at the time of the confrontation.

So that's the million dollar question I guess. Where was his truck. If he approached him at his truck and just punched him then why weren't they right next to the truck?