The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[ScienceRocks]

No.

To me it sounds like a tragedy. A horrible, unfortunate tragedy.

Whether you like George Zimmerman or not, you have to be intellectually honest... If not with me, with yourself, and admit that GZ may have been frightened out of his gourd, that he was getting the living shit beat out of him by a kid who is a street fighter and, by all accounts, a good one.

And that GZ pulled his gun.... A gun he had EVERY legal right to carry -- And shot Trayvon dead.

A tragedy.

Two tragedies don't cancel each other out. And neither does a tragedy and an injustice

Trayvon is subject to the same fear for his life that you give Zimmerman the rights to have.

It boils down to who was the aggressor.

I believe that the evidence points to Zimmerman being the aggressor. Had he followed the suggestion of the dispatcher he would not be in this mess...at least not today.

Based on his past he seemed like he was destined to kill somebody's child. He had made about 50 calls to the cops reporting suspicious black people.

He was a wannabe cop that finally found the trouble he was looking for.

I'm not making this stuff up dude.

"He had made about 50 calls to the cops reporting suspicious black people."

You wanna try that again?

If you don't revisit that claim and make adjustments to it, I will know that you're just trolling this thread and don't care about your credibility, only about getting a reaction from people who are actually trying to stick close to the facts.

Maybe if Black people would stop committing crimes=no problems? Oh'noooo's we can't be doing that. LOL

Stupid fuckers!

 

[Avatar4321]

As accurate as you may have been in the pas, I sure hope you're wrong for the first time on this one.

I don't see how an unarmed kid can be where he was supposed to be, unarmed, not committing any crime, gets targeted and ultimately killed and the killer gets to walk away Scot free as if nothing happened.

Does that sound like justice to you?

Not committing any crime? The eye witness says Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman attacking him. The Forensic evidence agrees with the eye witness.

How can you possibly claim that Trayvon wasnt doing anything when the evidence says otherwise?

 

[Redfish]

Someone refresh my memory, please.

Martin did NOT have any marks on his hands at all? If not, how could he have punched zimmermans face without having damage to his own hand? Does punching leave marks on the hand used?

Second...zimmerman and his friend said Martin grabbed for the gun. Then why are there no dna or prints on the gun that belong to Martin? How easily is dna deposited on a surface of a material object?

grabbing for and touching are two different things, one leaves prints one does not.

grabbing someone and slamming his head on the concrete will not do any damage to the grabbers hands.

nice try---------but fail

 

[Sunshine]

I seriously doubt (no matter how many times someone writes "not" in all caps) that the legal defense of justification does not apply to manslaughter in Florida.

I didn't say that it did. Though it normally does actually, but not if the 'victim' is a minor. And the NOTs were to explain to dickcheese the deal. He keeps pretending the self defense is a be-all factor as to whether GZ can be convicted of man slaughter.

And I also see no "exception" to the right of a person to resort to justification IF the "victim" is a minor.

The Florida jury instruction with regard to manslaughter says:

7.7 MANSLAUGHTER
§ 782.07, Fla. Stat.

To prove the crime of Manslaughter, the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. (Victim) is dead.

Give 2a, 2b, or 2c depending upon allegations and proof.
2. a. (Defendant) intentionally committed an act or acts that
caused the death of (victim).

b. (Defendant) intentionally procured an act that caused
the death of (victim).

c. The death of (victim) was caused by the culpable negligence of (defendant).

The defendant cannot be guilty of manslaughter by committing a merely negligent act or if the killing was either justifiable or excusable homicide:

Negligence:
Each of us has a duty to act reasonably toward others. If there is a violation of that duty, without any conscious intention to harm, that violation is negligence.

Justifiable Homicide:
The killing of a human being is justifiable homicide and lawful if necessarily done while resisting an attempt to murder or commit a felony upon the defendant, or to commit a felony in any dwelling house in which the defendant was at the time of the killing. § 782.02, Fla. Stat.

Excusable Homicide:
The killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, under any one of the following three circumstances:

1. When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent, or

2. When the killing occurs by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or

3. When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune resulting from a sudden combat, if a dangerous weapon is not used and the killing is not done in a cruel or unusual manner.
§ 782.03, Fla. Stat.

Give only if 2a alleged and proved.
In order to convict of manslaughter by act, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had an intent to cause death, only an intent to commit an act that was not merely negligent, justified, or excusable and which caused death.

Give only if 2b alleged and proved.
To “procure” means to persuade, induce, prevail upon or cause a person to do something.
Give only if 2c alleged and proved.
I will now define “culpable negligence” for you. Each of us has a duty to act reasonably toward others. If there is a violation of that duty, without any conscious intention to harm, that violation is negligence. But culpable negligence is more than a failure to use ordinary care toward others. In order for negligence to be culpable, it must be gross and flagrant. Culpable negligence is a course of conduct showing reckless disregard of human life, or of the safety of persons exposed to its dangerous effects, or such an entire want of care as to raise a presumption of a conscious indifference to consequences, or which shows wantonness or recklessness, or a grossly careless disregard for the safety and welfare of the public, or such an indifference to the rights of others as is equivalent to an intentional violation of such rights.

The negligent act or omission must have been committed with an utter disregard for the safety of others. Culpable negligence is consciously doing an act or following a course of conduct that the defendant must have known, or reasonably should have known, was likely to cause death or great bodily injury.

§ 782.07(2)-(4), Fla. Stat. Enhanced penalty if 2c alleged and proved. Give a, b, or c, as applicable.
If you find the defendant guilty of manslaughter, you must then determine whether the State has further proved beyond a reasonable doubt that:

a. (Victim) was at the time [an elderly person] [a disabled adult] whose death was caused by the neglect of (defendant), a caregiver.

b. (Victim) was a child whose death was caused by the neglect of (defendant), a caregiver.

c. (Victim) was at the time [an officer] [a firefighter] [an emergency medical technician] [a paramedic] who was at the time performing duties that were within the course of [his] [her] employment. The court now instructs you that (official title of victim) is [an officer] [a firefighter] [an emergency medical technician] [a paramedic].

Definitions. Give if applicable.
“Child” means any person under the age of 18 years.

§782.03, Fla. Stat.
“Dangerous weapon” is any weapon that, taking into account the manner in which it was used, is likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

“Elderly person” means a person 60 years of age or older who is suffering from the infirmities of aging as manifested by advanced age, organic brain damage, or physical, mental, or emotional dysfunctioning, to the extent that the ability of the person to provide adequately for the person=s own care or protection is impaired.

“Disabled adult” means a person 18 years of age or older who suffers from a condition of physical or mental incapacitation due to developmental disability, organic brain damage, or mental illness, or who has one or more physical or mental limitations that restrict the person=s ability to perform the normal activities of daily living.

“Facility” means any location providing day or residential care or treatment for elderly persons or disabled adults. The term “facility” may include, but is not limited to, any hospital, training center, state institution, nursing home, assisted living facility, adult family-care home, adult day care center, group home, mental health treatment center, or continuing care community.

As applied to an Elderly Person or a Disabled Adult.
“Caregiver” means a person who has been entrusted with or has assumed responsibility for the care or the property of an elderly person or a disabled adult. “Caregiver” includes, but is not limited to, relatives, court-appointed or voluntary guardians, adult household members, neighbors, health care providers, and employees and volunteers of facilities.

As applied to a Child.
“Caregiver” means a parent, adult household member, or other person responsible for a child’s welfare.

§ 825.102(3)(a) or § 827.03(3)(a), Fla. Stat. Give 1 or 2 as applicable.
“Neglect of [a child”] [an elderly person”] [a disabled adult”] means:

1. A caregiver’s failure or omission to provide [a child] [an elderly person] [a disabled adult] with the care, supervision, and services necessary to maintain [a child’s] [an elderly person’s] [a disabled adult’s] physical and mental health, including, but not limited to, food, nutrition, clothing, shelter, supervision, medicine, and medical services that a prudent person would consider essential for the well-being of the [child] [elderly person] [disabled adult];

or

2. A caregiver’s failure to make reasonable effort to protect [a child]
[an elderly person] [a disabled adult] from abuse, neglect or exploitation by another person.

Repeated conduct or a single incident or omission by a caregiver that results in, or could reasonably be expected to result in, a substantial risk of death of [a child] [an elderly person] [a disabled adult] may be considered in determining neglect.

Definitions. As applied to Designated Personnel.
§ 112.191 and § 633.35, Fla. Stat.
“Firefighter” means any full-time duly employed uniformed firefighter employed by an employer, whose primary duty is the prevention and extinguishing of fires, the protection of life and property there from, the enforcement of municipal, county, and state fire prevention codes, as well as the enforcement of any law pertaining to the prevention and control of fires, who is certified by the Division of State Fire Marshal of the Department of Financial Services, who is a member of a duly constituted fire department of such employer or who is a volunteer firefighter.

§ 943.10(14), Fla. Stat.
“Officer” means any person employed or appointed as a full-time, part-time or auxiliary law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or correctional probation officer.

§ 401.23, Fla. Stat.
“Emergency Medical Technician” means a person who is certified by the Department of Health to perform basic life support.
§ 401.23, Fla. Stat.
“Paramedic” means a person who is certified by the Department of Health to perform basic and advanced life support.

Lesser Included Offenses

MANSLAUGHTER 782.07
CATEGORY ONE CATEGORY TWO FLA. STAT. INS. NO.
None
Vehicular homicide 782.071 7.9
Vessel homicide 782.072 7.9
(Nonhomicide lessers) Attempt 777.04(1) 5.1
Aggravated assault 784.021 8.2
Battery 784.03 8.3
Assault 784.011 8.1
Culpable negligence 784.05 8.9

* * * *

The references to minors or children do NOT translate into the proposition that "justification" is inapplicable if the victim is a child. You are apparently misreading the law.

Trayvon was not a minor. He was 'just days past his 18th birthday' according to the prosecution. Why the media continues to promote him as a minor is unconscionable.

Quote for the day: "This trial is not going to be a slam dunk for the prosecution." (Says Marcia Clark who couldn't even get OJ convicted. But is now a media 'legal expert.)

 

[MarcATL]

Her definition of "slammed" does not appear to match his. "Slammed" is open to opinion. Any sudden impact can be considered by some to be a slam.

You're grabbing at straws.

I'm not grabbing at anything. However, you're hedging.

You just don't want to ADMIT that Zimmerman's been lying his A$$ off.

I don't admit to things that I do not believe to be true. So far, his rendition of what happened is plausible. He was beat up. Eye witnesses corroborate his story. Pictures of his head were taken minutes after it happened.

Do you think the pictures were photoshopped ?

LOL!!!

I love how you Zimmerman supporters have backed all the way down from the bogus "facts" that he was severely beaten to now claiming it's simply "plausible."

You just can't admit he was lying...I get it.

The pictures are real. Don't be stupid. They just don't show the degree of injuries that Zimmerman lied and claimed they did.

I've said that from the beginning. Now we have the Chief Medical Examiner corroborating that as well. Not to mention a police officer involved in the case.

Will you at least admit to the fact that Zimmerman lied about the EXTENT of the injuries to his head?

 

[Redfish]

As accurate as you may have been in the pas, I sure hope you're wrong for the first time on this one.

I don't see how an unarmed kid can be where he was supposed to be, unarmed, not committing any crime, gets targeted and ultimately killed and the killer gets to walk away Scot free as if nothing happened.

Does that sound like justice to you?

Not committing any crime? The eye witness says Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman attacking him. The Forensic evidence agrees with the eye witness.

How can you possibly claim that Trayvon wasnt doing anything when the evidence says otherwise?

they don't care about the facts, they just want the white guy to swing------gotta get even, you know

 

[ScienceRocks]

Marc, if that is what you believe actually happened, then I understand your outrage. However, in my opinion, based on the evidence available, I don't believe that is exactly went down.

But, I will respect your opinion, and I'm sure others would too, if you would just be willing to see over the fence to the other side and admit that the evidence leaves doubt to your account.

I'm seeing the other fence.

Number 1, Zimmerman on tape saying "These @#^&** punks always get away."
That goes to state of mind

Number 2, Zimmerman's many and differing testimonies given as to what happened that night, including the extent of the injuries he sustained.
It shows a pattern of lies.

Trayvon was not the aggressor here.

"These @#^&** punks" is not a racist comment.
"Creepy Ass Cracker" is a racist remark.
I've heard no lies.....but then, they're only lies because you want to see him hang just because he's "not" black.

BINGO!

They don't give a shit about the violence that kills dozens of trayvons every day. Oh'nooo's as that wouldn't cause hateful riots against innocent people.

 

[Katzndogz]

According to the HOA neighborhood watch, anyone on watch who sees something doesn't report it themselves but tells the watch captain who calls the police so it isn't unusual for Zimmerman to have made all those calls. As far as many of the calls being about black suspects... that is unfortunately not unusual either. Someone reporting a crime is not obligated to assign another race to the suspect just to be politically correct.

 

[Redfish]

I'm not grabbing at anything. However, you're hedging.

You just don't want to ADMIT that Zimmerman's been lying his A$$ off.

I don't admit to things that I do not believe to be true. So far, his rendition of what happened is plausible. He was beat up. Eye witnesses corroborate his story. Pictures of his head were taken minutes after it happened.

Do you think the pictures were photoshopped ?

LOL!!!

I love how you Zimmerman supporters have backed all the way down from the bogus "facts" that he was severely beaten to now claiming it's simply "plausible."

You just can't admit he was lying...I get it.

The pictures are real. Don't be stupid. They just don't show the degree of injuries that Zimmerman lied and claimed they did.

I've said that from the beginning. Now we have the Chief Medical Examiner corroborating that as well. Not to mention a police officer involved in the case.

Will you at least admit to the fact that Zimmerman lied about the EXTENT of the injuries to his head?

no, he did not lie about his injuries.

now, once again, if GZ is acquited are you going to join the mobs and burn your city?

 

[ScienceRocks]

As accurate as you may have been in the pas, I sure hope you're wrong for the first time on this one.

I don't see how an unarmed kid can be where he was supposed to be, unarmed, not committing any crime, gets targeted and ultimately killed and the killer gets to walk away Scot free as if nothing happened.

Does that sound like justice to you?

Not committing any crime? The eye witness says Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman attacking him. The Forensic evidence agrees with the eye witness.

How can you possibly claim that Trayvon wasnt doing anything when the evidence says otherwise?

Because within his eyes trayvon can't do NO wrong. He doesn't believe in the legal system to begin with....

He wants a hanging!

 

[Amelia]

MarcATL provides the quotes of the day!

"He had made about 50 calls to the cops reporting suspicious black people."

"I'm not making this stuff up dude."

 

[pioneerpete]

MarcAtl if he was on the jury pool:

Celebrity Trial Jury Selection - Video Clip | Comedy Central

 

[Avatar4321]

Nice story, here's another.

A few years ago, I was waiting for a red light to turn green, there was a car in front of me, I was on my cell phone texting. I thought the light was green and a hit my gas. I tapped the car in front of me.

The driver, a female, came out the car CLAIMING her back was hurting like never before, she was almost wailing.

The cop that came ended up dismissing me and dealt with the matter after giving me a ticket.

Clearly the woman was making crap up, as I barely tapped her car, there was not even a dent.

Morale of the story is, Zimmerman can CLAIM anything, including yelling like a banshee...that doesn't make his injuries any more real.

Furthermore, the matter of WHO was screaming has not yet been established, yet you're using that as some sort of fact.

It's clear where you stand.

Yes. Zimmerman can claim anything and that doesn't make his injuries real.

The photographs of the injuries are what prove they actually happened.

I guess I needed to specify that it was the EXTENT of his injuries...clearly he got some injuries that amounts to some scratches. Clearly.

First, the pictures look like alot more than just scratches.

Second, the fact that there are injuries period is evidence enough that he was being attacked. Blood coming from your nose and the back of your head just don't magically appear if someone is walking down the street and shoots someone for no reason. But they do appear if someone attacks you and you defend yourself.

See the problem with your reasoning?

 

[Moonglow]

Trayvon is subject to the same fear for his life that you give Zimmerman the rights to have.

It boils down to who was the aggressor.

I believe that the evidence points to Zimmerman being the aggressor. Had he followed the suggestion of the dispatcher he would not be in this mess...at least not today.

Based on his past he seemed like he was destined to kill somebody's child. He had made about 50 calls to the cops reporting suspicious black people.

He was a wannabe cop that finally found the trouble he was looking for.

I'm not making this stuff up dude.

"He had made about 50 calls to the cops reporting suspicious black people."

You wanna try that again?

If you don't revisit that claim and make adjustments to it, I will know that you're just trolling this thread and don't care about your credibility, only about getting a reaction from people who are actually trying to stick close to the facts.

Maybe if Black people would stop committing crimes=no problems? Oh'noooo's we can't be doing that. LOL

Stupid fuckers!

Especially since white people never commit crimes.

 

[Redfish]

unofficial poll question:

is there any black poster who thinks GZ is innocent?

 

[ScienceRocks]

I don't admit to things that I do not believe to be true. So far, his rendition of what happened is plausible. He was beat up. Eye witnesses corroborate his story. Pictures of his head were taken minutes after it happened.

Do you think the pictures were photoshopped ?

LOL!!!

I love how you Zimmerman supporters have backed all the way down from the bogus "facts" that he was severely beaten to now claiming it's simply "plausible."

You just can't admit he was lying...I get it.

The pictures are real. Don't be stupid. They just don't show the degree of injuries that Zimmerman lied and claimed they did.

I've said that from the beginning. Now we have the Chief Medical Examiner corroborating that as well. Not to mention a police officer involved in the case.

Will you at least admit to the fact that Zimmerman lied about the EXTENT of the injuries to his head?

no, he did not lie about his injuries.

now, once again, if GZ is acquited are you going to join the mobs and burn your city?

Of course he is...This is just a excuse for him to loot and riot. lol

 

[ScienceRocks]

"He had made about 50 calls to the cops reporting suspicious black people."

You wanna try that again?

If you don't revisit that claim and make adjustments to it, I will know that you're just trolling this thread and don't care about your credibility, only about getting a reaction from people who are actually trying to stick close to the facts.

Maybe if Black people would stop committing crimes=no problems? Oh'noooo's we can't be doing that. LOL

Stupid fuckers!

Especially since white people never commit crimes.

I think all people that commit crimes should be treated the same. I know white people do...

 

[asterism]

As accurate as you may have been in the pas, I sure hope you're wrong for the first time on this one.

I don't see how an unarmed kid can be where he was supposed to be, unarmed, not committing any crime, gets targeted and ultimately killed and the killer gets to walk away Scot free as if nothing happened.

Does that sound like justice to you?

No.

To me it sounds like a tragedy. A horrible, unfortunate tragedy.

Whether you like George Zimmerman or not, you have to be intellectually honest... If not with me, with yourself, and admit that GZ may have been frightened out of his gourd, that he was getting the living shit beat out of him by a kid who is a street fighter and, by all accounts, a good one.

And that GZ pulled his gun.... A gun he had EVERY legal right to carry -- And shot Trayvon dead.

A tragedy.

Two tragedies don't cancel each other out. And neither does a tragedy and an injustice

Trayvon is subject to the same fear for his life that you give Zimmerman the rights to have.

It boils down to who was the aggressor.

I believe that the evidence points to Zimmerman being the aggressor. Had he followed the suggestion of the dispatcher he would not be in this mess...at least not today.

Based on his past he seemed like he was destined to kill somebody's child. He had made about 50 calls to the cops reporting suspicious black people.

He was a wannabe cop that finally found the trouble he was looking for.

I'm not making this stuff up dude.

There is nothing in his past that makes him "destined" to kill somebody's child. He doesn't even have any criminal convictions.

He only made 7 calls regarding black people out of 46 calls total.

46 Calls - The Daily Beast

 

[Edgetho]

unofficial poll question:

is there any black poster who thinks GZ is innocent?

If there is, he won't dare admit it

 

[Avatar4321]

His nose was not broken and he didn't receive even one suture. He was not screaming, Trayvon was.

But then nobody has ever accused you of having any integrity.

We have no integrity because we believe the eye witness who was there who said he saw the exact opposite of what you are trying to portray as the truth?

Give me one good reason why this eye witness shouldn't be believed?