The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[TemplarKormac]

Debra Nelson opened herself up wide to appeal. I am absolutely dismayed that our justice system has stooped this low.

What happened?

She rejected compelling evidence (the text messages), based on an "authentication issue" but which under Lamarque v. State of Florida should have been admissible as evidence and I quote: "authentication of evidence merely requires a finding that the evidence is what it purports to be." In so doing she infringed on Zimmerman's right to due process and his 5th Amendment rights. "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury."

There is a similar ruling based in US v. Caldwell (1985)

 

[SantaFeWay]

And the touching is the operative word since that is what the P was hanging their gun DNA evidence on. To refute what they claim GZ said about TM touching the gun yet there was no TM DNA on the gun.

GZ's story, if you take out that liar Mark Osterman, has not changed in any appreciable way ever.

 

[The Rabbi]

I've done research. Tell me what I'm missing. It seems like Zimmerman made the wrong call and went after someone who was doing nothing wrong. And that's how we got this tragedy.

You are missing the part about Trayvon getting suspended from school multiple times for misconduct including them finding a shitload of stolen jewelry in his locker, for which his last suspension was given. Furthermore, the neighborhood he was roaming was being neighborhood-watched because the residents were fed up with coming home and finding all their damn jewelry was missing due to burglary.

Ain't it funny how time slips away when you're not getting all the facts in the same corral and connecting the dots. If Trayvon didn't know about the jewelry thefts in the area his relative lived in, why was he casing nearby houses? Was it because he had a place to go to nearby to avoid detection? Nobody knows for sure, but one thing is certain. That jewelry in his locker that didn't belong to him, and he didn't buy it either.

Martin isn't on trial. It is clear when Zimmerman was following him around that Martin was just going to the store. Also there is no record of violent crimes for Martin. Now that is an important fact.

Zimmerman was not "following him around." That is a mischaracterization. Als Martin was not just going to the store. In fact he attracted Zimmerman's attention for acting weird. Martin was 17yrs old so no surprise about a lack of record. Not enough time to get one. I mean beyond the graffiti and suspicions of theft.
But all of that is irrelevant. What is relevant is what happened when Zimmerman shot him. Would a reasonable person be in fear of his life at that point? The answer is of course.

 

[RKMBrown]

From the first time I saw Mark Osterman on the stand, I didn't believe him. I think he was embellishing to benefit his book sales.

Now look at how much trouble he's caused for GZ - the P keeps referring to this Osterman version as an example of a big change of story.

Did Zimmerman ever tell anyone else besides Osterman that TM touched the gun? I can't think of anyone.

In GZ's reenactment video with the investigator on the scene the next day he is on video saying TM went for the gun, GZ suddenly became a stronger better fighter than TM, pinned TM's hand under his arm pulled and fired the gun with the same arm while he was holding GZ's hand and arm from getting the gun. Sounds impossible or at least improbable. This is the BS I wanted to see "animated" or at least reenacted with someone on top of someone else in the mounted mma position. I just don't see how this would be possible. TM would have been trying to grab the gun with his right arm. Where is TM's left arm? How could GZ pin TM's right hand and arm with his right armpit while pulling a gun and shooting TM? I just don't get it.

Go to 10min in:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VakGZgJxTi4]George Zimmerman Re-enactment (Full Video) - YouTube[/ame]

My point exactly. Zimmerman does NOT say TM touched his gun. GZ says he felt TM "reaching for it" and GZ pinned TM's hand somehow (not important to me) and GZ beat TM to the gun. NEVER in that video did GZ say that TM touched the gun.

My recollection is that the ONLY person who ever said that was Mark Osterman.

Why wouldn't the how be important? The obvious way for GZ to beat TM to a hip gun is for TM to not know it's there. GZ first says he went for his "pocket." Some of the evidence discussed put the gun in the pocket... then it's on his hip. Did GZ reach for a hip gun or a pocket or is that a hip pocket? Was the gun behind GZ on his side or in the jacket moving up. If in the jacket moving up how the hell do you get your right hand in that pocket while you are pinning the attackers arm with your right arm pit. This to me is just an absurd account by GZ. If I were the prosecutor I would be trying to tear that evidence GZ provided apart.

My guess is / was that when TM finally stopped pounding on GZ and perhaps even started to get up that's when GZ would finally have access to his hip gun... perhaps TM made some kind of Arnold comment about the pulled gun and then GZ shot TM.

 

[Brain357]

You are missing the part about Trayvon getting suspended from school multiple times for misconduct including them finding a shitload of stolen jewelry in his locker, for which his last suspension was given. Furthermore, the neighborhood he was roaming was being neighborhood-watched because the residents were fed up with coming home and finding all their damn jewelry was missing due to burglary.

Ain't it funny how time slips away when you're not getting all the facts in the same corral and connecting the dots. If Trayvon didn't know about the jewelry thefts in the area his relative lived in, why was he casing nearby houses? Was it because he had a place to go to nearby to avoid detection? Nobody knows for sure, but one thing is certain. That jewelry in his locker that didn't belong to him, and he didn't buy it either.

Martin isn't on trial. It is clear when Zimmerman was following him around that Martin was just going to the store. Also there is no record of violent crimes for Martin. Now that is an important fact.

Zimmerman was not "following him around." That is a mischaracterization. Als Martin was not just going to the store. In fact he attracted Zimmerman's attention for acting weird. Martin was 17yrs old so no surprise about a lack of record. Not enough time to get one. I mean beyond the graffiti and suspicions of theft.
But all of that is irrelevant. What is relevant is what happened when Zimmerman shot him. Would a reasonable person be in fear of his life at that point? The answer is of course.

How is it a mischaracterization? I listened to zimmermans 911 call. He clearly states Martin ran away. The police also tell him he doesn't need to follow him. So if he isn't following him, how does the altercation ever happen?

So it is ok to harass someone into an altercation and then shoot him?

 

[RKMBrown]

Did you not watch the GZ video I just linked? How could the weaker GZ who is getting the poo pounded out of him, suddenly become the better fighter, and with one arm stop TM from grabbing the gun by pinning TM's arm under his arm pit while GZ is laying on the ground, reach down with the same arm draw and fire his gun into TM's chest from 2-4in away on the other side of TM's pinned arm? I don't get it. Can you explain how GZ accomplished this amazing feat? Is GZ double jointed? Are they suddenly playing twister?

Again I'm not saying he wasn't acting in self-defense. I'm asking how he did it.

You don't want to get it.

Yes I do. I'm on GZ's side in this now. He got the shit beat out of him. The shooting was obvious self defense. I want closure for this obvious hole.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And, if I may present to the people here

Craig v. State, 510 So.2d 857, 863 (Fla. 1987)

Which applies the evidence of motive critique. It states "that evidence of motive is admissible when it would help the jury understand other evidence"

This is a serious fuck up by Debra Nelson.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No evidence? I guess it was Martin following Zimmerman around then.

Even if we completely ignore the evidence that Zimmerman was walking back to his car and assume you are correct that he was following TM. Following someone is not harassment.

Zimmerman himself says in his 911 call that Martin's first reaction is to run away. Clearly Zimmerman keeps following him even after the police tell him not to. Martin's first reaction was to run away from the confrontation and he had no criminal history of violence. Yet you really believe Zimmerman turned his back and was attacked?

Zimmerman wasn't attacked? So what really happened?

 

[RKMBrown]

If they don't make this thing make sense, if they don't provide a reasonable explanation... some idiot's gonna kill GZ in retaliation.

 

[testarosa]

Did you not watch the GZ video I just linked? How could the weaker GZ who is getting the poo pounded out of him, suddenly become the better fighter, and with one arm stop TM from grabbing the gun by pinning TM's arm under his arm pit while GZ is laying on the ground, reach down with the same arm draw and fire his gun into TM's chest from 2-4in away on the other side of TM's pinned arm? I don't get it. Can you explain how GZ accomplished this amazing feat? Is GZ double jointed? Are they suddenly playing twister?

Again I'm not saying he wasn't acting in self-defense. I'm asking how he did it.

You don't want to get it.

Yes I do. I'm on GZ's side in this now. He got the shit beat out of him. The shooting was obvious self defense. I want closure for this obvious hole.

Maybe the cartoon will help illustrate:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWsRDNNugHc]Zimmerman trial: Forensics animation of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sarah G]

I just love John Guy. He just showed the gun to be Inaccessible in yet another Zimmerman story. All of his stories in his attempt to confuse the jury.

 

[KissMy]

It's more important to know important things like how to apply for food stamps and text your buddies.

It's more important that I went out and bb gunned a chicken hawk in the butt that was harassing my chickens and am feeling much better about life now.

shooting birds while intoxicated ? That sounds like way more fun than watching this trial.

Birds hell - Let's shoot some rioters in the heart & video record to time how long they walk & talk. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[testarosa]

Did you not watch the GZ video I just linked? How could the weaker GZ who is getting the poo pounded out of him, suddenly become the better fighter, and with one arm stop TM from grabbing the gun by pinning TM's arm under his arm pit while GZ is laying on the ground, reach down with the same arm draw and fire his gun into TM's chest from 2-4in away on the other side of TM's pinned arm? I don't get it. Can you explain how GZ accomplished this amazing feat? Is GZ double jointed? Are they suddenly playing twister?

Again I'm not saying he wasn't acting in self-defense. I'm asking how he did it.

You don't want to get it.

Yes I do. I'm on GZ's side in this now. He got the shit beat out of him. The shooting was obvious self defense. I want closure for this obvious hole.

I almost passed out just now.

 

[testarosa]

I just love John Guy. He just showed the gun to be Inaccessible in yet another Zimmerman story. All of his stories in his attempt to confuse the jury.

Um.

We b havin lunch.

 

[MarcATL]

The Judge rightfully shut down the defense's nonsense.

1. No animation, if Zimmerman wants his account out there then he should take the damn stand.
2. No text messages from Trayvon, not needed.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The Judge rightfully shut down the defense's nonsense.

1. No animation, if Zimmerman wants his account out there then he should take the damn stand.
2. No text messages from Trayvon, not needed.

Shut the fuck up Marc.

 

[RKMBrown]

You don't want to get it.

Yes I do. I'm on GZ's side in this now. He got the shit beat out of him. The shooting was obvious self defense. I want closure for this obvious hole.

Maybe the cartoon will help illustrate:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWsRDNNugHc]Zimmerman trial: Forensics animation of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman - YouTube[/ame]

Ayup. Watch GZ's reenactment at 10min in on the above linked video. Then this animation... then GZ's reenactment one more time. GZ's reenactment does not match the defense's animation. More particularly they purposefully hide and omit GZ's remarkable feat of pinning TM's arm, stopping TM from getting the gun, drawing and firing the gun.

 

[wavingrl]

it's a tough call----there are a million variables that could effect the situation. Would you like a law that says that you must call the police and have them protect yourself and your belongings ?

As far as I know --that is the law we have here.

How LE interprets the Law. I am properly intimidated.

Far more afraid of being 'accused'/charged than of being injured or killed. My brother had some experiences--that is all I will say.

You fear that you will be punished for defending yourself?

I have a healthy fear of legal consequences. And am greatly concerned about my ignorance of the law.

At any rate--living in the state of GA--unless you are in your own home and someone is clearly threatening your life--ie --the woman who shot the intruder while hiding in a crawl space with her 2 daughters---it is likely that you would be charged for using deadly force. I cannot think of an example of a person using deadly force outside of his/her home. For whatever reasons, knock on wood, violent crimes seem to be down. Perhaps that is not true--exceptionally violent or crimes that would be of interest to the media may be down.
2 years ago there was a killing/burglary spree around the holidays--since then I can't recall anything major --not that homicide isn't major. There are plenty of homicides weekly. fwiw.

The line of thinking, particularly for women --'It is your responsibility to anticipate danger and do not place yourself at risk.' A few years ago several women were raped and self defense meetings were held.

 

[RKMBrown]

Whoa... the prosecution is finally addressing my point. Maybe... maybe they are. cmon dude go to the reenactment again.

 

[pioneerpete]

Breaking news: Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and MarcATL are pushing for federal hate crimes against Mark O'Mara for assaulting the black dummy. They note that O'Mara profiled the black dummy and followed behind the prosecutors to retrieve the dummy. He is a wanna-be thug!