The OIL!

[ChrisL]

Should we go after the oil, or at least take temporary long-term control over the oil fields in such places as Iraq, after fighting a war and claiming victory? I think about what has happened in Iraq, and why did we listen to the new leader of Iraq? I think we should have taken control of the country and the oil, at least on a temporary basis (if not permanent if need be) until they can prove that they are going to behave like adults and be able to control and protect it adequately. What do you say and why?

For those who disagree about just moving in and taking control . . . why? Why do you oppose the US going in and taking over regions of the world (particularly in the ME) where there is a LOT of oil (therefore a lot of opportunity to cause global mayhem) at stake? Thankfully, most of them are just too greedy to cut everyone off, but with the crazy insurgents running around, who knows what could happen.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

 

[ChrisL]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

I'll bet we would take better care of the people and make the country work more efficiently than those bozos who are in control now.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

I'll bet we would take better care of the people and make the country work more efficiently than those bozos who are in control now.

You'd lose that bet. No one likes a conqueror and they fight you on principle. Remember the bodies of the contractors being dragged through the street?

 

[ChrisL]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

I'll bet we would take better care of the people and make the country work more efficiently than those bozos who are in control now.

You'd lose that bet. No one likes a conqueror and they fight you on principle. Remember the bodies of the contractors being dragged through the street?

Yes, but those were insurgents who were still loyal to Saddam. I'm not counting them. I'm talking about the regular people who just want to have jobs and live normal lives. Who cares about the trouble makers? We just secure the oil fields and kill them as need be. Have a strong military presence there. Treat it as if we would if it was a part of America. Middle America!

 

[ChrisL]

@Synthaholic

I'm interested in hearing what your opinion on this is, because it is your comment in the other thread that made me think about it.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

I'll bet we would take better care of the people and make the country work more efficiently than those bozos who are in control now.

You'd lose that bet. No one likes a conqueror and they fight you on principle. Remember the bodies of the contractors being dragged through the street?

Yes, but those were insurgents who were still loyal to Saddam. I'm not counting them. I'm talking about the regular people who just want to have jobs and live normal lives. Who cares about the trouble makers? We just secure the oil fields and kill them as need be. Have a strong military presence there. Treat it as if we would if it was a part of America. Middle America!

Are you talking about invading Alberta? Your idea might work there. It absolutely will not work in Iraq. Those bonehead Neo-cons thought like you and it didn't work. Everyone is not the same. Cultures are not the same. Beliefs are not the same. Societies are not the same. Tribal cultures are fundamentally different from what we know here.

To give you a taste of what you're talking about, let's say a foreign invader took over the US and then instituted reforms which, essentially, forced you to marry your male cousin. Forced you because they were refocusing American culture to move in another direction. How's that going to go over with you?

 

[ChrisL]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

I'll bet we would take better care of the people and make the country work more efficiently than those bozos who are in control now.

You'd lose that bet. No one likes a conqueror and they fight you on principle. Remember the bodies of the contractors being dragged through the street?

Yes, but those were insurgents who were still loyal to Saddam. I'm not counting them. I'm talking about the regular people who just want to have jobs and live normal lives. Who cares about the trouble makers? We just secure the oil fields and kill them as need be. Have a strong military presence there. Treat it as if we would if it was a part of America. Middle America!

Are you talking about invading Alberta? Your idea might work there. It absolutely will not work in Iraq. Those bonehead Neo-cons thought like you and it didn't work. Everyone is not the same. Cultures are not the same. Beliefs are not the same. Societies are not the same. Tribal cultures are fundamentally different from what we know here.

To give you a taste of what you're talking about, let's say a foreign invader took over the US and then instituted reforms which, essentially, forced you to marry your male cousin. Forced you because they were refocusing American culture to move in another direction. How's that going to go over with you?

Yes, but my country isn't run by a dictator who keeps the people ignorant and uneducated and poor, while sopping up all the benefits of the oil and becoming super rich (well, not to the same extent anyways, lol). WE don't need another country to come in and take over. THEY apparently do. The entire ME is an unstable hell hole and always has been.

You do have a good point though. The British and French did take over parts of the ME, and there were some "situations" that arose. Still though, what do YOU think would happen to oil prices world wide if the insurgents were to take over some oil fields?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

I'll bet we would take better care of the people and make the country work more efficiently than those bozos who are in control now.

You'd lose that bet. No one likes a conqueror and they fight you on principle. Remember the bodies of the contractors being dragged through the street?

Yes, but those were insurgents who were still loyal to Saddam. I'm not counting them. I'm talking about the regular people who just want to have jobs and live normal lives. Who cares about the trouble makers? We just secure the oil fields and kill them as need be. Have a strong military presence there. Treat it as if we would if it was a part of America. Middle America!

Are you talking about invading Alberta? Your idea might work there. It absolutely will not work in Iraq. Those bonehead Neo-cons thought like you and it didn't work. Everyone is not the same. Cultures are not the same. Beliefs are not the same. Societies are not the same. Tribal cultures are fundamentally different from what we know here.

To give you a taste of what you're talking about, let's say a foreign invader took over the US and then instituted reforms which, essentially, forced you to marry your male cousin. Forced you because they were refocusing American culture to move in another direction. How's that going to go over with you?

Yes, but my country isn't run by a dictator who keeps the people ignorant and uneducated and poor, while sopping up all the benefits of the oil and becoming super rich (well, not to the same extent anyways, lol). WE don't need another country to come in and take over. THEY apparently do. The entire ME is an unstable hell hole and always has been.

You do have a good point though. The British and French did take over parts of the ME, and there were some "situations" that arose. Still though, what do YOU think would happen to oil prices world wide if the insurgents were to take over some oil fields?

Nothing would happen in the long run while there might be a short term spike until thing settled down.

The rest of the world needs the oil, Iraq needs the revenue. They can't shut off oil and survive as a nation without revenue. They don't have us over a barrel. They need that money the get from selling oil. Their economies are skeletal without oil exports. Those exports fund all sorts of internal subsidies for basics like food and medicine. They can't survive without selling oil.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Are you talking about invading Alberta? Your idea might work there. It absolutely will not work in Iraq. Those bonehead Neo-cons thought like you and it didn't work. Everyone is not the same. Cultures are not the same. Beliefs are not the same. Societies are not the same. Tribal cultures are fundamentally different from what we know here.

To give you a taste of what you're talking about, let's say a foreign invader took over the US and then instituted reforms which, essentially, forced you to marry your male cousin. Forced you because they were refocusing American culture to move in another direction. How's that going to go over with you?

Well... To be fair, it might work, if we were willing to go full "Roman" on the place and straight up massacre anyone who tried to stop us until they got the message to stay the Hell out of our way.

However, I think we all know that's not going to happen, so it's basically a moot point.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Should we go after the oil, or at least take temporary long-term control over the oil fields in such places as Iraq, after fighting a war and claiming victory? I think about what has happened in Iraq, and why did we listen to the new leader of Iraq? I think we should have taken control of the country and the oil, at least on a temporary basis (if not permanent if need be) until they can prove that they are going to behave like adults and be able to control and protect it adequately. What do you say and why?

For those who disagree about just moving in and taking control . . . why? Why do you oppose the US going in and taking over regions of the world (particularly in the ME) where there is a LOT of oil (therefore a lot of opportunity to cause global mayhem) at stake? Thankfully, most of them are just too greedy to cut everyone off, but with the crazy insurgents running around, who knows what could happen.

I wouldn't support doing it by ourselves. It'd have to be a coalition effort if we were to try it at all.

If we were to do something like that unilaterally, the UN and every country in the region would flip. Worse, Russia and China would take the act as a direct threat to their interests, and might very well use it as an excuse to justify conquering some resource rich part of the world that they happen to have their eyes on.

 

[Rikurzhen]

There's no treasure pot of gold under the rainbow there. The oil revenue that comes out is used to finance the country. The amount that is pilfered via corruption is certainly large to an individual./group ($ billion here or there) but not to a country like the US with a $15 trillion economy. It's that siphoned off money that we'd gain. BFD. It's not like we get the oil for $0 and sell it for market price and let everyone in Iraq starve and the economy grind to a halt. We'd have to finance that economy and the people. There's no profit in it, not really.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

There's no treasure pot of gold under the rainbow there. The oil revenue that comes out is used to finance the country. The amount that is pilfered via corruption is certainly large to an individual./group ($ billion here or there) but not to a country like the US with a $15 trillion economy. It's that siphoned off money that we'd gain. BFD. It's not like we get the oil for $0 and sell it for market price and let everyone in Iraq starve and the economy grind to a halt. We'd have to finance that economy and the people. There's no profit in it, not really.

True. The only way it'd really make sense was if the Iraqi government were to collapse entirely, and we were simply there to guard the oil wells and nothing else.

Trying to run the whole country probably wouldn't work as things currently stand.

 

[Rikurzhen]

There's no treasure pot of gold under the rainbow there. The oil revenue that comes out is used to finance the country. The amount that is pilfered via corruption is certainly large to an individual./group ($ billion here or there) but not to a country like the US with a $15 trillion economy. It's that siphoned off money that we'd gain. BFD. It's not like we get the oil for $0 and sell it for market price and let everyone in Iraq starve and the economy grind to a halt. We'd have to finance that economy and the people. There's no profit in it, not really.

True. The only way it'd really make sense was if the Iraqi government were to collapse entirely, and we were simply there to guard the oil wells and nothing else.

Trying to run the whole country probably wouldn't work as things currently stand.

Even then, guard them from what? Whoever controls the oil, sells the oil. Oil in the ground is worth ZERO to those who control it and they still have to pay for the manpower and resources to control it. They need cash flow to operate their army and government. They have to sell the oil.

Here's a parallel case. Venezuela. It doesn't matter to the global economy if Chavez was in control or not. Someone in Venezuela had to sell the oil. What Chavez did with the proceeds is of little consequence. The important aspect is that the oil hit the international market. Oil is fungible.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Even then, guard them from what? Whoever controls the oil, sells the oil. Oil in the ground is worth ZERO to those who control it and they still have to pay for the manpower and resources to control it. They need cash flow to operate their army and government. They have to sell the oil.

Here's a parallel case. Venezuela. It doesn't matter to the global economy if Chavez was in control or not. Someone in Venezuela had to sell the oil. What Chavez did with the proceeds is of little consequence. The important aspect is that the oil hit the international market. Oil is fungible.

Well, yea. We'd only be there to ensure that the oil kept flowing, and that someone like ISIS couldn't take control of it instead.

Iraq has the 4th largest reserves on the planet. The markets couldn't afford for that to run dry all of the sudden.

Prices would shoot through the roof.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Even then, guard them from what? Whoever controls the oil, sells the oil. Oil in the ground is worth ZERO to those who control it and they still have to pay for the manpower and resources to control it. They need cash flow to operate their army and government. They have to sell the oil.

Here's a parallel case. Venezuela. It doesn't matter to the global economy if Chavez was in control or not. Someone in Venezuela had to sell the oil. What Chavez did with the proceeds is of little consequence. The important aspect is that the oil hit the international market. Oil is fungible.

Well, yea. We'd only be there to ensure that the oil kept flowing, and that someone like ISIS couldn't take control of it instead.

Iraq has the 4th largest reserves on the planet. The markets couldn't afford for that to run dry all of the sudden.

Prices would shoot through the roof.

I don't think I'm getting my point across or you're disagreeing with my point but not saying so.

The markets can't afford for that oil to stop flowing and NEITHER can the entity which controls the oil. We need they oil, they need the money. Let ISIS take control, they still need to govern the land that they control. People still need to eat, people still need to earn income. Oil is manna there.

What we're talking about here is the skim, as the mob used to say. There are costs to pump the oil, costs to keep the infrastructure running and maintained, costs to administration, etc then there are the subsidies for food and gasoline, there are the costs of importing gasoline for the domestic market and so on.

 

[Swagger]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

I'll bet we would take better care of the people and make the country work more efficiently than those bozos who are in control now.

You'd lose that bet. No one likes a conqueror and they fight you on principle. Remember the bodies of the contractors being dragged through the street?

Yes, but those were insurgents who were still loyal to Saddam. I'm not counting them. I'm talking about the regular people who just want to have jobs and live normal lives. Who cares about the trouble makers? We just secure the oil fields and kill them as need be. Have a strong military presence there. Treat it as if we would if it was a part of America. Middle America!

Where do youthink those insurgents come from? It's from the population who feel humiliated by the occupying force's victory.

 

[ChrisL]

Nothing would happen in the long run while there might be a short term spike until thing settled down.

The rest of the world needs the oil, Iraq needs the revenue. They can't shut off oil and survive as a nation without revenue. They don't have us over a barrel. They need that money the get from selling oil. Their economies are skeletal without oil exports. Those exports fund all sorts of internal subsidies for basics like food and medicine. They can't survive without selling oil.

Well, if the insurgents were to take over. I don't think they are concerned with the economic health of Iraq. They are concerned with their religious preoccupations. They actually want to cut Iraq off from the rest of the world because they think we're all "devils." Let's not forget that insurgents tried to blow up and set fire to old fields in Iraq during the war. They wanted to disrupt the flow of oil.

 

[ChrisL]

Appropriating a country's oil wealth for our own benefit instills a long burning hatred that never goes away. We rape the country of its resources and the people don't forget. The short term gain is not worth the long term misery.

Better to just buy their oil.

I'll bet we would take better care of the people and make the country work more efficiently than those bozos who are in control now.

You'd lose that bet. No one likes a conqueror and they fight you on principle. Remember the bodies of the contractors being dragged through the street?

Yes, but those were insurgents who were still loyal to Saddam. I'm not counting them. I'm talking about the regular people who just want to have jobs and live normal lives. Who cares about the trouble makers? We just secure the oil fields and kill them as need be. Have a strong military presence there. Treat it as if we would if it was a part of America. Middle America!

Where do youthink those insurgents come from? It's from the population who feel humiliated by the occupying force's victory.

To an extent, but there have been insurgents in the ME since long before we arrived. Saddam just tortured and killed them, then buried them in mass graves along with their families. That's how HE handled them.

 

[ChrisL]

Even then, guard them from what? Whoever controls the oil, sells the oil. Oil in the ground is worth ZERO to those who control it and they still have to pay for the manpower and resources to control it. They need cash flow to operate their army and government. They have to sell the oil.

Here's a parallel case. Venezuela. It doesn't matter to the global economy if Chavez was in control or not. Someone in Venezuela had to sell the oil. What Chavez did with the proceeds is of little consequence. The important aspect is that the oil hit the international market. Oil is fungible.

Well, yea. We'd only be there to ensure that the oil kept flowing, and that someone like ISIS couldn't take control of it instead.

Iraq has the 4th largest reserves on the planet. The markets couldn't afford for that to run dry all of the sudden.

Prices would shoot through the roof.

I agree. I do not think a terrorist group such as ISIS has the economic health and world reputation of Iraq on the forefronts of their minds. I think they are more concerned with their internal feuds and extremist religious beliefs.