The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Sixties Fan]

Herzl, Uganda and the "First" Balfour Declaration (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

26% of the Saudi volunteers were killed - and they are claiming that they were winning?

None of the Arab nations who fought in 1948 cared about "Palestinians." No one even used the term. They just wanted to defeat the Jews, and they were quite clear then that they mean Jews, not "Zionists"

Now, 70 years later, Saudi Arabia is pretending to be the savior of the Palestinian Arabs in 1948. It is probably not a coincidence that the Saudis are releasing this just as they are trying to push their own agenda in the Middle East, and how to handle the Palestinian Arabs.

(full article online)

Saudis claim they would have defeated Israel in 1948, if it wasn't for a truce ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ A view of how the British viewed the Jews 100 years ago ]

Now online: Never-before seen footage of 1900s Jewish Britain

 

[Sixties Fan]

My Right Word: What Was That "Whole"

 

[Mindful]

Fact #1: There could have been a two-state solution as early as 1947. That’s precisely what the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) proposed, recognizing the presence of two peoples – and two nationalisms – in a territory governed temporarily by the United Kingdom. And the UN General Assembly decisively endorsed the UNSCOP proposal. The Jewish side pragmatically accepted the plan, but the Arab world categorically rejected it.

Fact #2: When Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948, it extended the hand of friendship to its Arab neighbors, as clearly evidenced by its founding documents and statements. That offer, too, was spurned. Instead, five Arab armies declared war on the fledgling Jewish state, seeking its total destruction. Despite vastly outnumbering the Jews and possessing superior military arsenals, they failed in their quest.

Aish.com

 

[montelatici]

Fact 1. The partition plan left a third of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians in the Jewish sector, it was politically impossible for the Palestinians to accept the loss of a third of their population. Particularly since the non-Jews including the Bedouins left in the Jewish sector outnumbered the Jews and would never be allowed to achieve self-determination.

Fact 2. The Jews had already invaded the Palestinian sector prior to the Arab League's intervention. As an example Jaffa, within the Arab sector, had been under seige for weeks long before the execution of the partition plan (and Israel's declaration of independence) and had been forced to surrender (and non-Jew civilians forced to evacuate with British help) before the Arab League's intervention.

Fact 3. No part of the Jewish partition was invaded by the Arab League. The Arab League limited itself to attempting to prevent the massacre and/or expulsion of non-Jews from the Arab and International sectors.

Just facts.

 

[Mindful]

I thought of bothering, but it's complete waste of time.

 

[montelatici]

Of course it is a waste of time to deny facts.

 

[rylah]

Fact 1. The partition plan left a third of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians in the Jewish sector, it was politically impossible for the Palestinians to accept the loss of a third of their population. Particularly since the non-Jews including the Bedouins left in the Jewish sector outnumbered the Jews and would never be allowed to achieve self-determination.

Fact 2. The Jews had already invaded the Palestinian sector prior to the Arab League's intervention. As an example Jaffa, within the Arab sector, had been under seige for weeks long before the execution of the partition plan (and Israel's declaration of independence) and had been forced to surrender (and non-Jew civilians forced to evacuate with British help) before the Arab League's intervention.

Fact 3. No part of the Jewish partition was invaded by the Arab League. The Arab League limited itself to attempting to prevent the massacre and/or expulsion of non-Jews from the Arab and International sectors.

Just facts.

You mean the British siege of old city after the Bloody Day in Jaffa or the fight against Muslim Brotherhood in Haifa and Jaffa since the beginning of 48?

 

[Mindful]

Of course it is a waste of time to deny facts.

Nothing to deny, because you don't give any.

 

[montelatici]

Fact 1. The partition plan left a third of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians in the Jewish sector, it was politically impossible for the Palestinians to accept the loss of a third of their population. Particularly since the non-Jews including the Bedouins left in the Jewish sector outnumbered the Jews and would never be allowed to achieve self-determination.

Fact 2. The Jews had already invaded the Palestinian sector prior to the Arab League's intervention. As an example Jaffa, within the Arab sector, had been under seige for weeks long before the execution of the partition plan (and Israel's declaration of independence) and had been forced to surrender (and non-Jew civilians forced to evacuate with British help) before the Arab League's intervention.

Fact 3. No part of the Jewish partition was invaded by the Arab League. The Arab League limited itself to attempting to prevent the massacre and/or expulsion of non-Jews from the Arab and International sectors.

Just facts.

You mean the British siege of old city after the Bloody Day in Jaffa or the fight against Muslim Brotherhood in Haifa and Jaffa since the beginning of 48?

No, the facts:

"In April 1948, British forces, which had hitherto acted as a buffer between Jews and Arabs forces in Haifa, the largest port town, announced to the Jewish authorities there that they would be withdrawing. This sent a green light to proceed with the city’s ‘de-Arabisation’, which involved expelling its 75,000 Palestinian residents, and is described by Pappe as ‘one of the most shameful chapters in the history of the British empire in the Middle East’. The same fate befell the city of Jaffa, which was taken in May 1948 after a three-week long siege by Israeli forces, who succeeded in expelling the entire population of 50,000 with the ‘help’ of British mediation. In parts of Jerusalem, the British even disarmed the few Arab residents defending themselves against Jewish attacks on their neighbourhoods. The British also aided Israel’s annexation of Palestine in other ways, such as handing over land ownership deeds for villages, which provided vital information to aid the depopulation process."

Britain’s role in the war in Palestine, 1948

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Fact 1. The partition plan left a third of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians in the Jewish sector, it was politically impossible for the Palestinians to accept the loss of a third of their population. Particularly since the non-Jews including the Bedouins left in the Jewish sector outnumbered the Jews and would never be allowed to achieve self-determination.

Fact 2. The Jews had already invaded the Palestinian sector prior to the Arab League's intervention. As an example Jaffa, within the Arab sector, had been under seige for weeks long before the execution of the partition plan (and Israel's declaration of independence) and had been forced to surrender (and non-Jew civilians forced to evacuate with British help) before the Arab League's intervention.

Fact 3. No part of the Jewish partition was invaded by the Arab League. The Arab League limited itself to attempting to prevent the massacre and/or expulsion of non-Jews from the Arab and International sectors.

Just facts.

You mean the British siege of old city after the Bloody Day in Jaffa or the fight against Muslim Brotherhood in Haifa and Jaffa since the beginning of 48?

Wow, so 12,000 Jews were forced to flee Jaffa! No wonder it ended up being an Arab city, similar to Hebron.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Fact 1. The partition plan left a third of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians in the Jewish sector, it was politically impossible for the Palestinians to accept the loss of a third of their population. Particularly since the non-Jews including the Bedouins left in the Jewish sector outnumbered the Jews and would never be allowed to achieve self-determination.

Fact 2. The Jews had already invaded the Palestinian sector prior to the Arab League's intervention. As an example Jaffa, within the Arab sector, had been under seige for weeks long before the execution of the partition plan (and Israel's declaration of independence) and had been forced to surrender (and non-Jew civilians forced to evacuate with British help) before the Arab League's intervention.

Fact 3. No part of the Jewish partition was invaded by the Arab League. The Arab League limited itself to attempting to prevent the massacre and/or expulsion of non-Jews from the Arab and International sectors.

Just facts.

You mean the British siege of old city after the Bloody Day in Jaffa or the fight against Muslim Brotherhood in Haifa and Jaffa since the beginning of 48?

No, the facts:

"In April 1948, British forces, which had hitherto acted as a buffer between Jews and Arabs forces in Haifa, the largest port town, announced to the Jewish authorities there that they would be withdrawing. This sent a green light to proceed with the city’s ‘de-Arabisation’, which involved expelling its 75,000 Palestinian residents, and is described by Pappe as ‘one of the most shameful chapters in the history of the British empire in the Middle East’. The same fate befell the city of Jaffa, which was taken in May 1948 after a three-week long siege by Israeli forces, who succeeded in expelling the entire population of 50,000 with the ‘help’ of British mediation. In parts of Jerusalem, the British even disarmed the few Arab residents defending themselves against Jewish attacks on their neighbourhoods. The British also aided Israel’s annexation of Palestine in other ways, such as handing over land ownership deeds for villages, which provided vital information to aid the depopulation process."

Britain’s role in the war in Palestine, 1948

If this report is true, why are there still so many Arabs in Haifa and Jaffa?

 

[rylah]

Fact 1. The partition plan left a third of the Muslim and Christian Palestinians in the Jewish sector, it was politically impossible for the Palestinians to accept the loss of a third of their population. Particularly since the non-Jews including the Bedouins left in the Jewish sector outnumbered the Jews and would never be allowed to achieve self-determination.

Fact 2. The Jews had already invaded the Palestinian sector prior to the Arab League's intervention. As an example Jaffa, within the Arab sector, had been under seige for weeks long before the execution of the partition plan (and Israel's declaration of independence) and had been forced to surrender (and non-Jew civilians forced to evacuate with British help) before the Arab League's intervention.

Fact 3. No part of the Jewish partition was invaded by the Arab League. The Arab League limited itself to attempting to prevent the massacre and/or expulsion of non-Jews from the Arab and International sectors.

Just facts.

You mean the British siege of old city after the Bloody Day in Jaffa or the fight against Muslim Brotherhood in Haifa and Jaffa since the beginning of 48?

No, the facts:

"In April 1948, British forces, which had hitherto acted as a buffer between Jews and Arabs forces in Haifa, the largest port town, announced to the Jewish authorities there that they would be withdrawing. This sent a green light to proceed with the city’s ‘de-Arabisation’, which involved expelling its 75,000 Palestinian residents, and is described by Pappe as ‘one of the most shameful chapters in the history of the British empire in the Middle East’. The same fate befell the city of Jaffa, which was taken in May 1948 after a three-week long siege by Israeli forces, who succeeded in expelling the entire population of 50,000 with the ‘help’ of British mediation. In parts of Jerusalem, the British even disarmed the few Arab residents defending themselves against Jewish attacks on their neighbourhoods. The British also aided Israel’s annexation of Palestine in other ways, such as handing over land ownership deeds for villages, which provided vital information to aid the depopulation process."

Britain’s role in the war in Palestine, 1948

You take events out of context and victimize just one side, when in fact both sides took part the war:

"Jaffa, an Arab city of about 750,000 inhabitants, had been earmarked by the UN partition resolution for Palestinian sovereignty. But it was to be an enclave inside the Jewish State, its land communications with the rest of Palestinian State depended upon the Jews. The inhabitants felt isolated and vulnerable. But as with Haifa the exodus from the town was triggered by the start hostilities, which were initiated by Jaffa's militiamen, who began sniping into neighboring Tel-Aviv on 30 November 1947. The following day dozens of Arabs assaulted Jewish houses bordering on the northern Manshiya neighborhood and an Arab mob in Abu Kabir, a neighborhood to the west, attacked a Jewish car and murdered its 3 passengers. Jewish retaliatory strikes followed."
The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited

This is what Jews were fighting, among many others:

:

 

[montelatici]

So that's the Zionist story. The Jews were peacefully surrounding Jaffa, eh. You people crack me up. The Jews had every intention of invading Jaffa and expelling the non-Jews as part of Plan D. Jaffa was besieged by the Jews and the Muslims and Christians were simply defending themselves from an imminent invasion.

The Muslims and Christians were defending themselves from a European invader intent on colonizing more the land and enslaving the native people. They were quite aware of what the Jews intended to do to them and they put up the resistance they could even with the British siding with the Jews.

 

[rylah]

So that's the Zionist story. The Jews were peacefully surrounding Jaffa, eh. You people crack me up. The Jews had every intention of invading Jaffa and expelling the non-Jews as part of Plan D. Jaffa was besieged by the Jews and the Muslims and Christians were simply defending themselves from an imminent invasion.

C'mon You don't even get the time-line, Arab snipers killed 35 people in Jaffa and Tel-Aviv, roads were raided and Haifa citizens, including Arabs were harassed by Arab militias ...what You're talking about happened months later.

Did You look into the location of Jaffa? This could never work in the middle of civil war.

 

[montelatici]

Thankfully there are contemporaneous news reports that confirm that the Jews started the attack on Jaffa. They began laying down mortar fire on the city in April FFS. The initial attack was repelled by the Palestinians or the British told the Jews to stop the attack until they got the hell out.

"From the archive, 26 April 1948: Irgun fails to seize Jaffa
Originally published in the Manchester Guardian on 26 April 1948


"Irgun, the Jewish terrorist organisation, yesterday morning assembled a strong force on the "frontier" of the Jewish city of Tel Aviv and began an attack on the Arab port of Jaffa. The attack was not authorised by Hagana, the Jewish Army, and its members on the spot stood by and watched.

Irgun put down a heavy mortar fire on the Arab side of the frontier and then claimed to have advanced. Exactly what happened is not clear, as the only statement made last evening by any party concerned in the fighting was one broadcast by Hagana, over its radio from Tel Aviv."

From the archive, 26 April 1948: Irgun fails to seize Jaffa

All you people know if Zionist propaganda. The Jews were intent on expelling non-Jews everywhere they could.

 

[rylah]

Thankfully there are contemporaneous news reports that confirm that the Jews started the attack on Jaffa. They began laying down mortar fire on the city in April FFS. The initial attack was repelled by the Palestinians or the British told the Jews to stop the attack until they got the hell out.

"From the archive, 26 April 1948: Irgun fails to seize Jaffa
Originally published in the Manchester Guardian on 26 April 1948


"Irgun, the Jewish terrorist organisation, yesterday morning assembled a strong force on the "frontier" of the Jewish city of Tel Aviv and began an attack on the Arab port of Jaffa. The attack was not authorised by Hagana, the Jewish Army, and its members on the spot stood by and watched.

Irgun put down a heavy mortar fire on the Arab side of the frontier and then claimed to have advanced. Exactly what happened is not clear, as the only statement made last evening by any party concerned in the fighting was one broadcast by Hagana, over its radio from Tel Aviv."

From the archive, 26 April 1948: Irgun fails to seize Jaffa

All you people know if Zionist propaganda. The Jews were intent on expelling non-Jews everywhere they could.

You take events out of context and victimize just one side, when in fact both sides took part the war:

"Jaffa, an Arab city of about 750,000 inhabitants, had been earmarked by the UN partition resolution for Palestinian sovereignty. But it was to be an enclave inside the Jewish State, its land communications with the rest of Palestinian State depended upon the Jews. The inhabitants felt isolated and vulnerable. But as with Haifa the exodus from the town was triggered by the start hostilities, which were initiated by Jaffa's militiamen, who began sniping into neighboring Tel-Aviv on 30 November 1947. The following day dozens of Arabs assaulted Jewish houses bordering on the northern Manshiya neighborhood and an Arab mob in Abu Kabir, a neighborhood to the west, attacked a Jewish car and murdered its 3 passengers. Jewish retaliatory strikes followed."
The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited

 

[montelatici]

Thankfully contemporaneous reports by the British military, who were there, demonstrate you are full of crap. The Jews started invading the Arab partition early on. The Muslims and Christians were defending themselves from the Jew colonial plan.

"After the the UN Partition plan was announced in November 1947 violence escalated and the Zionist battle to colonize Palestine with the establishment of 'facts on the ground' began in earnest. Even though in February 1947 the British had announced their intention to leave Palestine the following Spring, attacks on British service personnel intensified even though nothing could be gained. See also Washington Report for an article about the violence of 1947."

events:1947 - British Forces in Palestine

 

[rylah]

Thankfully contemporaneous reports by the British military, who were there, demonstrate you are full of crap. The Jews started invading the Arab partition early on. The Muslims and Christians were defending themselves from the Jew colonial plan.

"After the the UN Partition plan was announced in November 1947 violence escalated and the Zionist battle to colonize Palestine with the establishment of 'facts on the ground' began in earnest. Even though in February 1947 the British had announced their intention to leave Palestine the following Spring, attacks on British service personnel intensified even though nothing could be gained. See also Washington Report for an article about the violence of 1947."

events:1947 - British Forces in Palestine

You'll eat dust trying to find the first bullet shot.
Palestinian Jews were attacked by their Arab neighbors long before any Zionist arrived.

But if You wanna play be my guest - who first had guns Arabs or Zionists?