The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[montelatici]

The Europeans attacked the native people when they began invading Palestine with settler colonial aspirations in the 1800s. Besides the Jewish attacks on the Palestinians farmers, the mere fact that the Jews intended to colonize and subjugate the people in an already inhabited land is an attack.

 

[rylah]

The Europeans attacked the native people when they began invading Palestine with settler colonial aspirations in the 1800s. Besides the Jewish attacks on the Palestinians farmers, the mere fact that the Jews intended to colonize and subjugate the people in an already inhabited land is an attack.

So now You're trying to justify Arab violence by changing cause and effect.

Arab pogroms against native Palestinian Jews occurred for decades before any Zionist ever shot a bullet or proclaimed a plan to establish a state.

That You constantly look for excuses to blame it all on the Jews - only shows Your fixation.
In fact it were the Arabs themselves who helped Europeans invade Ottoman Palestine to cede the land to a bigger Arab state- rather than to have an independent Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Still someone's hero ]

At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two.

Here is a clear and typical example—in detail, which is where the devil resides—of Pappe’s handiwork. I take this example from The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. On February 2, 1948, a young Jewish scientist named Aharon Katzir came to see David Ben-Gurion, the chairman of the Jewish Agency Executive and the leader of the Jewish community in Palestine. Two months earlier, the General Assembly of the United Nations had recommended the partition of the country into two states. The Zionist establishment had accepted Resolution 181, but the Palestinian Arab leadership, and the surrounding Arab states, had rejected it—and Palestinian militiamen began to shoot at Jewish traffic, pedestrians, and settlements. The first Arab-Israeli war had begun.

Katzir had come to report to the man managing the Jewish war effort (Ben-Gurion also held the defense portfolio in the Jewish Agency Executive) about an experiment that he and his team in the Haganah’s “science branch” had been conducting. As was his wont, Ben-Gurion jotted down in his diary what his visitor told him. (Ben-Gurion’s diary, a major source on Israeli and Middle East history, consists almost entirely of his summaries of reports by people coming to see him; very few entries actually enlighten the reader about what Ben-Gurion thought or said.) The entry reads:

Aharon: ‘Shimshon’ [the operation’s codename], an experiment was conducted on animals. The researchers were clothed in gas masks and suit. The suit costs 20 grush, the mask about 20 grush (all must be bought immediately). The operation [or experiment] went well. No animal died, the [animals] remained dazzled [as when a car’s headlights dazzle an oncoming driver] for 24 hours. There are some 50 kilos [of the gas]. [They] were moved to Tel Aviv. The [production] equipment is being moved here. On the laboratory level, some 20 kilos can be produced per day.

This is the only accessible source that exists, to the best of my knowledge, about the meeting and the gas experiment, and it is the sole source cited by Pappe for his description of the meeting and the “Shimshon” project. But this is how Pappe gives the passage in English:

Katzir reported to Ben-Gurion: “We are experimenting with animals. Our researchers were wearing gas masks and adequate outfit. Good results. The animals did not die (they were just blinded). We can produce 20 kilos a day of this stuff.”

(full article online)

The Liar as Hero

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ When did the Jews really began to create an army to protect themselves? 1947 Very good documentary to what finally led to the UN partition and establishment of the State of Israel ]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ When did the Jews really began to create an army to protect themselves? 1947 Very good documentary to what finally led to the UN partition and establishment of the State of Israel ]

Reminds me of the of the Flotilla.

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ When did the Jews really began to create an army to protect themselves? 1947 Very good documentary to what finally led to the UN partition and establishment of the State of Israel ]

Reminds me of the of the Flotilla.

Only a brain like yours would compare Jews fleeing the nazi persecution with empty brained flotillas for people who did not need the products the flotillas brought to Gaza, which ended up being delivered to Gaza regardless.

Keep it up

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ When did the Jews really began to create an army to protect themselves? 1947 Very good documentary to what finally led to the UN partition and establishment of the State of Israel ]

Reminds me of the of the Flotilla.

Only a brain like yours would compare Jews fleeing the nazi persecution with empty brained flotillas for people who did not need the products the flotillas brought to Gaza, which ended up being delivered to Gaza regardless.

Keep it up

which ended up being delivered to Gaza regardless.

Another Israeli lie.

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ When did the Jews really began to create an army to protect themselves? 1947 Very good documentary to what finally led to the UN partition and establishment of the State of Israel ]

Reminds me of the of the Flotilla.

Only a brain like yours would compare Jews fleeing the nazi persecution with empty brained flotillas for people who did not need the products the flotillas brought to Gaza, which ended up being delivered to Gaza regardless.

Keep it up

which ended up being delivered to Gaza regardless.

Another Israeli lie.

Says Tinfoil with no evidence to what you just posted.
But......as usual.....you got off topic.....

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ When did the Jews really began to create an army to protect themselves? 1947 Very good documentary to what finally led to the UN partition and establishment of the State of Israel ]

Reminds me of the of the Flotilla.

Only a brain like yours would compare Jews fleeing the nazi persecution with empty brained flotillas for people who did not need the products the flotillas brought to Gaza, which ended up being delivered to Gaza regardless.

Keep it up

which ended up being delivered to Gaza regardless.

Another Israeli lie.

Says Tinfoil with no evidence to what you just posted.
But......as usual.....you got off topic.....

Are lies "on topic?"

 

[rylah]

Israel had MORE indigenous people and native Arabs in the govt in 69 years
than the US congress - in 229 yrs.

So stop with the hypocrisy - #END United States APARTHEID.


Q. Who gave YOU the mandate?

 

[montelatici]

Israel had MORE indigenous people and native Arabs in the govt in 69 years
than the US congress - in 229 yrs.

So stop with the hypocrisy - #END United States APARTHEID.



Q. Who gave You the mandate?

Native Americans represent less than 1 percent of the U.S. population. The native people represent about 50% of the people under Jew rule. So stop with your hypocrisy.

Israel is an Apartheid state.

 

[rylah]

Israel had MORE indigenous people and native Arabs in the govt in 69 years
than the US congress - in 229 yrs.

So stop with the hypocrisy - #END United States APARTHEID.



Q. Who gave You the mandate?

Native Americans represent less than 1 percent of the U.S. population. The native people represent about 50% of the people under Jew rule. So stop with your hypocrisy.

Israel is an Apartheid state.

Israel had 81 Arab members of Knesset - in 69 years.
US had only 21 natives in her 229 years of "existence", someone would call - #US OCCUPATION.

You must change the congress drastically - right now - put 20 native Americas instead of the Irish, Polish and German immigrants. Sounds familiar?

Your Hypocrisy Debt to Israel grows exponentially with each vote You take.

Q. Who gave You the mandate?

 

[montelatici]

Given that the native people in Palestine, under Israeli rule, represent 50 times the pro-rata population of Native Americans in the U.S. The native population of the U.S. has been numerically represented at a higher rate. 21 x 50 = 1050/~3 (times more years of the U.S)= 350. To equal the U.S. Israel would have had to have 350 native people in parliament.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Given that the native people in Palestine, under Israeli rule, represent 50 times the pro-rata population of Native Americans in the U.S. The native population of the U.S. has been numerically represented at a higher rate. 21 x 50 = 1050/~3 (times more years of the U.S)= 350. To equal the U.S. Israel would have had to have 350 native people in parliament.

Except for the fact that the Jews ARE the native ppl.

 

[montelatici]

Given that the native people in Palestine, under Israeli rule, represent 50 times the pro-rata population of Native Americans in the U.S. The native population of the U.S. has been numerically represented at a higher rate. 21 x 50 = 1050/~3 (times more years of the U.S)= 350. To equal the U.S. Israel would have had to have 350 native people in parliament.

Except for the fact that the Jews ARE the native ppl.

Not at all. The Jews that went to Palestine were native to Europe and elswhere, not Palestine. The native people of Palestine are the Muslim and Christian inhabitants who were there when the Jews began their colonization of Palestine. The early Zionists themselves understood this and stated this clearly, in print.

 

[rylah]

Given that the native people in Palestine, under Israeli rule, represent 50 times the pro-rata population of Native Americans in the U.S. The native population of the U.S. has been numerically represented at a higher rate. 21 x 50 = 1050/~3 (times more years of the U.S)= 350. To equal the U.S. Israel would have had to have 350 native people in parliament.

Except for the fact that the Jews ARE the native ppl.

Not at all. The Jews that went to Palestine were native to Europe and elswhere, not Palestine. The native people of Palestine are the Muslim and Christian inhabitants who were there when the Jews began their colonization of Palestine. The early Zionists themselves understood this and stated this clearly, in print.

Native Jews were in the 1st Israeli govt along with native and immigrant Arabs and Jews, who were both from Mesopotamia, Arabia,.Africa and Europe.

And it doesn't seem Arabs actually wanted independence from the Arabian ruling dynasties.

 

[teddyearp]

Hmm. I still have to wonder if there would ever been a British Mandate for that area if the Pasha had not drug the Ottoman empire into WWI.

But this is too touchy a subject for the supposed pro-Palestinians (who are actually Anti-Israel) because it would lay the blame for the whole mess there again at the feet of the Arab/Muslims.