The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[P F Tinmore]

If Israel has placed itself into that situation, I am not the one to cry about it.

Nice duck.

WHY does the person want THAT particular orange grove? Answer the questions.

Because it is his.

It's a myth that peasants owned much land, by the end of 19th century majority of them was already dispossessed by Bedouins and/or in debt to a number of major landowners. For example in Nablus by the end of the 18th century Ottomans installed dominant clans from Syria to weaken independence that resulted in a policy of allotting a piece of land for 2 years only for each family, before changing hands. During the Mandate many were relocated to other lands under agreement and ALREADY received compensation.

I'm not saying no fallah owned a piece of land - but it was unusual for their status.Many large landowners were people from Cairo, Damascus, Kuwait etc. To stretch that into a claim that "land inhabited and worked by Palestinian Arabs belonged to them" is a simplistic deception.

Like in a case one receives a loan from a bank. The bank is sold to a new owner, but the customer with the loan claims the whole capital of the bank was his from the beginning.

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf

It's a myth that peasants owned much land,

It is a myth that they did not. Most of the cities, towns, and villages pre date the Ottoman Empire. The land was ceased after the conquest. That land was ceded back to Palestine after WWI. That land was then returned to the original owners. Britain, the UN, and a private organization have been compiling these transfers from records.

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

So compile a list of Jewish owners and work from there.

 

[montelatici]

Because it is his.

It's a myth that peasants owned much land, by the end of 19th century majority of them was already dispossessed by Bedouins and/or in debt to a number of major landowners. For example in Nablus by the end of the 18th century Ottomans installed dominant clans from Syria to weaken independence that resulted in a policy of allotting a piece of land for 2 years only for each family, before changing hands. During the Mandate many were relocated to other lands under agreement and ALREADY received compensation.

I'm not saying no fallah owned a piece of land - but it was unusual for their status.Many large landowners were people from Cairo, Damascus, Kuwait etc. To stretch that into a claim that "land inhabited and worked by Palestinian Arabs belonged to them" is a simplistic deception.

Like in a case one receives a loan from a bank. The bank is sold to a new owner, but the customer with the loan claims the whole capital of the bank was his from the beginning.

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf

Well, we do know who owned most of the land in 1945 pursuant to the British cadastral survey:

How does it even argue with anything I've posted?
Arabs from Kuwait, Cairo and Damascus and other countries owned much of those lands.... little was owned by the locals. And not only Jews bought lands for Israel.

Jews bought lands in Huran as well, it doesn't mean the peasants who worked for them could now claim the Syrian govt. owns them something.

The cadastral survey registered foreign owners within "public and other" in the tables associated with the map. The Arab ownership means Palestinian Arab ownership as opposed to Palestinian Jew ownership.

I don't see a link - not cuts and pieces of documents like You usually do.
I know that Hadauwi manipulated many public and "other" lands to be registered as "Arab".

Because it is his.

It's a myth that peasants owned much land, by the end of 19th century majority of them was already dispossessed by Bedouins and/or in debt to a number of major landowners. For example in Nablus by the end of the 18th century Ottomans installed dominant clans from Syria to weaken independence that resulted in a policy of allotting a piece of land for 2 years only for each family, before changing hands. During the Mandate many were relocated to other lands under agreement and ALREADY received compensation.

I'm not saying no fallah owned a piece of land - but it was unusual for their status.Many large landowners were people from Cairo, Damascus, Kuwait etc. To stretch that into a claim that "land inhabited and worked by Palestinian Arabs belonged to them" is a simplistic deception.

Like in a case one receives a loan from a bank. The bank is sold to a new owner, but the customer with the loan claims the whole capital of the bank was his from the beginning.

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf

Well, we do know who owned most of the land in 1945 pursuant to the British cadastral survey:

How does it even argue with anything I've posted?
Arabs from Kuwait, Cairo and Damascus and other countries owned much of those lands.... little was owned by the locals. And not only Jews bought lands for Israel.

Jews bought lands in Huran as well, it doesn't mean the peasants who worked for them could now claim the Syrian govt. owns them something.

The cadastral survey registered foreign owners within "public and other" in the tables associated with the map. The Arab ownership means Palestinian Arab ownership as opposed to Palestinian Jew ownership.

I don't see a link - not cuts and pieces of documents like You usually do.
I know that Hadauwi manipulated many public and "other" lands to be registered as "Arab".

You are just making things up to try to rationalize a false narrative, Zionist propaganda. The UN knew exactly who owned the land. The Arab population owned 85% of the private land as late as 1945.

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

 

[montelatici]

If Israel has placed itself into that situation, I am not the one to cry about it.

Nice duck.

WHY does the person want THAT particular orange grove? Answer the questions.

Because it is his.

It's a myth that peasants owned much land, by the end of 19th century majority of them was already dispossessed by Bedouins and/or in debt to a number of major landowners. For example in Nablus by the end of the 18th century Ottomans installed dominant clans from Syria to weaken independence that resulted in a policy of allotting a piece of land for 2 years only for each family, before changing hands. During the Mandate many were relocated to other lands under agreement and ALREADY received compensation.

I'm not saying no fallah owned a piece of land - but it was unusual for their status.Many large landowners were people from Cairo, Damascus, Kuwait etc. To stretch that into a claim that "land inhabited and worked by Palestinian Arabs belonged to them" is a simplistic deception.

Like in a case one receives a loan from a bank. The bank is sold to a new owner, but the customer with the loan claims the whole capital of the bank was his from the beginning.

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf

It's a myth that peasants owned much land,

It is a myth that they did not. Most of the cities, towns, and villages pre date the Ottoman Empire. The land was ceased after the conquest. That land was ceded back to Palestine after WWI. That land was then returned to the original owners. Britain, the UN, and a private organization have been compiling these transfers from records.

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

There was little to no Arab migration to Palestine. Quite the opposite, there was net Muslim and Christian migration out of Palestine to Egypt where there were more job opportunities given the British presence and the Suez Canal. Prior to that most military age males had been drafted and sent to fight for Turkey in WW 1. Most did not return to Palestine and settled in other parts of Turkey (or died).

"(b) IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

 

[rylah]

You are just making things up to try to rationalize a false narrative, Zionist propaganda. The UN knew exactly who owned the land. The Arab population owned 85% of the private land as late as 1945.

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

Inventing nothing, “possession” is exactly what happened,since the Ottoman mess until the British came, it was mostly based on occupying a piece of land at the given time, and a lot of say so.The UN is the least reliable source on anything that happened in Palestine before it was established. When the British came many abandoned places were already inhabited by recently new comers.


Tristram goes on to present a remarkable and highly revealing description of conditions in Palestine on both sides of the Jordan River in the middle of the 19th century ---

“A few years ago, the whole Ghor was in the hands of the fellahin, and much of it cultivated for corn. Now the whole of it is in the hands of the Bedouin, who eschew all agriculture, except in a few spots cultivated here and there by their slaves; and with the Bedouin come lawlessness and the uprooting of all Turkish authority. No government is now acknowledged on the east side; and unless the Porte acts with greater firmness and caution than is his wont . . . Palestine will be desolated and given up to the nomads. The same thing is now going on over the plain of Sharon, where, both in the north and south, land is going out of cultivation, and whole villages rapidly disappearing from the face of the earth. Since the year 1838, no less than 20 villages have been thus erased from the map and the stationary population extirpated. Very rapidly the Bedouin are encroaching wherever horse can be ridden; and the Government is utterly powerless to resist them or to defend its subjects. (p. 490) “



1937 Report of the Palestine Royal Commission

“The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts . . . no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached Yabna village. . . . The area north of Jaffa . . . consisted of two distinctive parts. . . . The eastern part, in the direction of the hills, resembled in culture that of the Gaza-Jaffa area. . . . The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert. . . . The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants. “


Mr. Lewis French, Director of Development appointed by the British Government in 1931:

“We found it inhabited by fellahin who lived in mud hovels and suffered severely from the prevalent malaria. . . . Large areas of their lands were uncultivated and covered with weeds. There were no trees, no vegetables. The fellahin, if not themselves cattle thieves, were always ready to harbour these and other criminals. The individual plots of cultivation changed hands annually. There was little public security, and the fellahin's lot was an alternation of pillage and blackmail by their neighbours the Bedouin.”

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf
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Q. So tell me who among the Arabs in Palestine owned the land “for centuries” and who took possession of it just prior to joined British Arab invasion?

 

[rylah]

Nice duck.

WHY does the person want THAT particular orange grove? Answer the questions.

Because it is his.

It's a myth that peasants owned much land, by the end of 19th century majority of them was already dispossessed by Bedouins and/or in debt to a number of major landowners. For example in Nablus by the end of the 18th century Ottomans installed dominant clans from Syria to weaken independence that resulted in a policy of allotting a piece of land for 2 years only for each family, before changing hands. During the Mandate many were relocated to other lands under agreement and ALREADY received compensation.

I'm not saying no fallah owned a piece of land - but it was unusual for their status.Many large landowners were people from Cairo, Damascus, Kuwait etc. To stretch that into a claim that "land inhabited and worked by Palestinian Arabs belonged to them" is a simplistic deception.

Like in a case one receives a loan from a bank. The bank is sold to a new owner, but the customer with the loan claims the whole capital of the bank was his from the beginning.

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf

It's a myth that peasants owned much land,

It is a myth that they did not. Most of the cities, towns, and villages pre date the Ottoman Empire. The land was ceased after the conquest. That land was ceded back to Palestine after WWI. That land was then returned to the original owners. Britain, the UN, and a private organization have been compiling these transfers from records.

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

There was little to no Arab migration to Palestine. Quite the opposite, there was net Muslim and Christian migration out of Palestine to Egypt where there were more job opportunities given the British presence and the Suez Canal. Prior to that most military age males had been drafted and sent to fight for Turkey in WW 1. Most did not return to Palestine and settled in other parts of Turkey (or died).

"(b) IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE
16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

Ohh rubbish – that the UN made such assumptions based on British neglect in recording illegal Arab immigration is recognized even by the UNRWA:

UNRWA Review, Information Paper No. 6 (September 1962) : “A considerable movement of people is known to have occurred, particularly during the Second World War, years when new opportunities of employment opened up in the towns and on military works in Palestine. These wartime prospects and, generally, the higher rate of industrialization in Palestine attracted many new immigrants from the neighbouring countries, and many of them entered Palestine without their presence being officially recorded. “


Thousands of “Palestinian” Muslims as well as Christians flooded in from surrounding countries during the mandate and did so before the British-Arab invasion as well.

 

[rylah]

Nice duck.

WHY does the person want THAT particular orange grove? Answer the questions.

Because it is his.

It's a myth that peasants owned much land, by the end of 19th century majority of them was already dispossessed by Bedouins and/or in debt to a number of major landowners. For example in Nablus by the end of the 18th century Ottomans installed dominant clans from Syria to weaken independence that resulted in a policy of allotting a piece of land for 2 years only for each family, before changing hands. During the Mandate many were relocated to other lands under agreement and ALREADY received compensation.

I'm not saying no fallah owned a piece of land - but it was unusual for their status.Many large landowners were people from Cairo, Damascus, Kuwait etc. To stretch that into a claim that "land inhabited and worked by Palestinian Arabs belonged to them" is a simplistic deception.

Like in a case one receives a loan from a bank. The bank is sold to a new owner, but the customer with the loan claims the whole capital of the bank was his from the beginning.

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf

It's a myth that peasants owned much land,

It is a myth that they did not. Most of the cities, towns, and villages pre date the Ottoman Empire. The land was ceased after the conquest. That land was ceded back to Palestine after WWI. That land was then returned to the original owners. Britain, the UN, and a private organization have been compiling these transfers from records.

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

So compile a list of Jewish owners and work from there.

This is exactly the idiocy prevailing on this subject.
Because anything that was not registered as Jewish property, automatically belongs to Arabs?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Because it is his.

It's a myth that peasants owned much land, by the end of 19th century majority of them was already dispossessed by Bedouins and/or in debt to a number of major landowners. For example in Nablus by the end of the 18th century Ottomans installed dominant clans from Syria to weaken independence that resulted in a policy of allotting a piece of land for 2 years only for each family, before changing hands. During the Mandate many were relocated to other lands under agreement and ALREADY received compensation.

I'm not saying no fallah owned a piece of land - but it was unusual for their status.Many large landowners were people from Cairo, Damascus, Kuwait etc. To stretch that into a claim that "land inhabited and worked by Palestinian Arabs belonged to them" is a simplistic deception.

Like in a case one receives a loan from a bank. The bank is sold to a new owner, but the customer with the loan claims the whole capital of the bank was his from the beginning.

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf

It's a myth that peasants owned much land,

It is a myth that they did not. Most of the cities, towns, and villages pre date the Ottoman Empire. The land was ceased after the conquest. That land was ceded back to Palestine after WWI. That land was then returned to the original owners. Britain, the UN, and a private organization have been compiling these transfers from records.

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

So compile a list of Jewish owners and work from there.

This is exactly the idiocy prevailing on this subject.
Because anything that was not registered as Jewish property, automatically belongs to Arabs?

Who are Arabs?

 

[rylah]

It's a myth that peasants owned much land, by the end of 19th century majority of them was already dispossessed by Bedouins and/or in debt to a number of major landowners. For example in Nablus by the end of the 18th century Ottomans installed dominant clans from Syria to weaken independence that resulted in a policy of allotting a piece of land for 2 years only for each family, before changing hands. During the Mandate many were relocated to other lands under agreement and ALREADY received compensation.

I'm not saying no fallah owned a piece of land - but it was unusual for their status.Many large landowners were people from Cairo, Damascus, Kuwait etc. To stretch that into a claim that "land inhabited and worked by Palestinian Arabs belonged to them" is a simplistic deception.

Like in a case one receives a loan from a bank. The bank is sold to a new owner, but the customer with the loan claims the whole capital of the bank was his from the beginning.

https://www.wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf

It's a myth that peasants owned much land,

It is a myth that they did not. Most of the cities, towns, and villages pre date the Ottoman Empire. The land was ceased after the conquest. That land was ceded back to Palestine after WWI. That land was then returned to the original owners. Britain, the UN, and a private organization have been compiling these transfers from records.

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

So compile a list of Jewish owners and work from there.

This is exactly the idiocy prevailing on this subject.
Because anything that was not registered as Jewish property, automatically belongs to Arabs?

Who are Arabs?

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is a myth that they did not. Most of the cities, towns, and villages pre date the Ottoman Empire. The land was ceased after the conquest. That land was ceded back to Palestine after WWI. That land was then returned to the original owners. Britain, the UN, and a private organization have been compiling these transfers from records.

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

So compile a list of Jewish owners and work from there.

This is exactly the idiocy prevailing on this subject.
Because anything that was not registered as Jewish property, automatically belongs to Arabs?

Who are Arabs?

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

 

[Hollie]

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

So compile a list of Jewish owners and work from there.

This is exactly the idiocy prevailing on this subject.
Because anything that was not registered as Jewish property, automatically belongs to Arabs?

Who are Arabs?

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

Deflection.

 

[rylah]

Most of the villages and towns predate Arab Muslim conquest as well...and many bear Jewish names SO??

Sole possession is not a proof. Villages were abandoned during Bedouin raids later to be inhabited by new migrants, same nomad Bedouins with their slaves and later Arab labor migrants from all continents.

So compile a list of Jewish owners and work from there.

This is exactly the idiocy prevailing on this subject.
Because anything that was not registered as Jewish property, automatically belongs to Arabs?

Who are Arabs?

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

That's the thing...You cannot be too specific, those people were as much immigrants as many Jews at the time...but the Arab propaganda uses them to blow up the numbers:
Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Christians:
Palestine
Syria
Transiordan
Cyprus
Malta
Other Mediterranean
Islands
Abyssinia
Egypt
Hejaz-Neid
Iraq
Other Arabian
Territories
Persia
Turkey
Central Asiatic
Territories
Indian Continent
Far Eastern Asia
Algeria
Morocco
Tripoli
Tunis
Other African
Territories
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Holland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Rumania
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
U.S.S.R.
Yugoslavia
Canada
U.S.A.
Central & South
America
Australia

 

[P F Tinmore]

So compile a list of Jewish owners and work from there.

This is exactly the idiocy prevailing on this subject.
Because anything that was not registered as Jewish property, automatically belongs to Arabs?

Who are Arabs?

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

That's the thing...You cannot be too specific, those people were as much immigrants as many Jews at the time...but the Arab propaganda uses them to blow up the numbers:
Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Christians:
Palestine
Syria
Transiordan
Cyprus
Malta
Other Mediterranean
Islands
Abyssinia
Egypt
Hejaz-Neid
Iraq
Other Arabian
Territories
Persia
Turkey
Central Asiatic
Territories
Indian Continent
Far Eastern Asia
Algeria
Morocco
Tripoli
Tunis
Other African
Territories
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Holland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Rumania
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
U.S.S.R.
Yugoslavia
Canada
U.S.A.
Central & South
America
Australia

WOW, looks like the US of A. How bad can that be?

So, when you say "Arabs" I am not sure who you are talking about.

 

[rylah]

This is exactly the idiocy prevailing on this subject.
Because anything that was not registered as Jewish property, automatically belongs to Arabs?

Who are Arabs?

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

That's the thing...You cannot be too specific, those people were as much immigrants as many Jews at the time...but the Arab propaganda uses them to blow up the numbers:
Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Christians:
Palestine
Syria
Transiordan
Cyprus
Malta
Other Mediterranean
Islands
Abyssinia
Egypt
Hejaz-Neid
Iraq
Other Arabian
Territories
Persia
Turkey
Central Asiatic
Territories
Indian Continent
Far Eastern Asia
Algeria
Morocco
Tripoli
Tunis
Other African
Territories
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Holland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Rumania
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
U.S.S.R.
Yugoslavia
Canada
U.S.A.
Central & South
America
Australia

WOW, looks like the US of A. How bad can that be?

So, when you say "Arabs" I am not sure who you are talking about.

That's exactly my point, Arabs in Palestine were as much immigrants as many Jews.
One example of such "Palestinian" Arabs is the Musarwa clan, the biggest Arab family in Israel, or the Misr village- all inhabited by Bedouins and Egyptians from Muhammad Ali Pasha's army.

The notion that they were original owners to whom You (or the UN) automatically assign lands based on untitled claims, is even more ridiculous than British demanding a right of return to US farms, or even worse- demanding it from some indigenous American reservation, which in this case is Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who are Arabs?

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

That's the thing...You cannot be too specific, those people were as much immigrants as many Jews at the time...but the Arab propaganda uses them to blow up the numbers:
Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Christians:
Palestine
Syria
Transiordan
Cyprus
Malta
Other Mediterranean
Islands
Abyssinia
Egypt
Hejaz-Neid
Iraq
Other Arabian
Territories
Persia
Turkey
Central Asiatic
Territories
Indian Continent
Far Eastern Asia
Algeria
Morocco
Tripoli
Tunis
Other African
Territories
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Holland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Rumania
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
U.S.S.R.
Yugoslavia
Canada
U.S.A.
Central & South
America
Australia

WOW, looks like the US of A. How bad can that be?

So, when you say "Arabs" I am not sure who you are talking about.

That's exactly my point, Arabs in Palestine were as much immigrants as many Jews.
One example of such "Palestinian" Arabs is the Musarwa clan, the biggest Arab family in Israel, or the Misr village- all inhabited by Bedouins and Egyptians from Muhammad Ali Pasha's army.

The notion that they were original owners to whom You (or the UN) automatically assign lands based on untitled claims, is even more ridiculous than British demanding a right of return to US farms, or even worse- demanding it from some indigenous American reservation, which in this case is Israel.

Societies evolve over time. As long as nothing is forced there is no problem. The creation of Palestine followed international law. Yes, the territory was divided. Yes, the new states were defined by international borders. However, the normal residents of each defined territory automatically became citizens of their respective new state. They became the sovereigns within their territory. They are the ones who could set policies like immigration and land ownership. That is the rule of state succession that continues today.

There was no immigration before this time. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was the same as moving from Albany to Buffalo. It was within the same territory.

 

[Hollie]

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

That's the thing...You cannot be too specific, those people were as much immigrants as many Jews at the time...but the Arab propaganda uses them to blow up the numbers:
Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Christians:
Palestine
Syria
Transiordan
Cyprus
Malta
Other Mediterranean
Islands
Abyssinia
Egypt
Hejaz-Neid
Iraq
Other Arabian
Territories
Persia
Turkey
Central Asiatic
Territories
Indian Continent
Far Eastern Asia
Algeria
Morocco
Tripoli
Tunis
Other African
Territories
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Holland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Rumania
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
U.S.S.R.
Yugoslavia
Canada
U.S.A.
Central & South
America
Australia

WOW, looks like the US of A. How bad can that be?

So, when you say "Arabs" I am not sure who you are talking about.

That's exactly my point, Arabs in Palestine were as much immigrants as many Jews.
One example of such "Palestinian" Arabs is the Musarwa clan, the biggest Arab family in Israel, or the Misr village- all inhabited by Bedouins and Egyptians from Muhammad Ali Pasha's army.

The notion that they were original owners to whom You (or the UN) automatically assign lands based on untitled claims, is even more ridiculous than British demanding a right of return to US farms, or even worse- demanding it from some indigenous American reservation, which in this case is Israel.

Societies evolve over time. As long as nothing is forced there is no problem. The creation of Palestine followed international law. Yes, the territory was divided. Yes, the new states were defined by international borders. However, the normal residents of each defined territory automatically became citizens of their respective new state. They became the sovereigns within their territory. They are the ones who could set policies like immigration and land ownership. That is the rule of state succession that continues today.

There was no immigration before this time. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was the same as moving from Albany to Buffalo. It was within the same territory.

That's the same baseless tirade you litter among various threads.
Identify when you're invented "state of Pally'land" ever existed.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

That's the thing...You cannot be too specific, those people were as much immigrants as many Jews at the time...but the Arab propaganda uses them to blow up the numbers:
Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Christians:
Palestine
Syria
Transiordan
Cyprus
Malta
Other Mediterranean
Islands
Abyssinia
Egypt
Hejaz-Neid
Iraq
Other Arabian
Territories
Persia
Turkey
Central Asiatic
Territories
Indian Continent
Far Eastern Asia
Algeria
Morocco
Tripoli
Tunis
Other African
Territories
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Holland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Rumania
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
U.S.S.R.
Yugoslavia
Canada
U.S.A.
Central & South
America
Australia

WOW, looks like the US of A. How bad can that be?

So, when you say "Arabs" I am not sure who you are talking about.

That's exactly my point, Arabs in Palestine were as much immigrants as many Jews.
One example of such "Palestinian" Arabs is the Musarwa clan, the biggest Arab family in Israel, or the Misr village- all inhabited by Bedouins and Egyptians from Muhammad Ali Pasha's army.

The notion that they were original owners to whom You (or the UN) automatically assign lands based on untitled claims, is even more ridiculous than British demanding a right of return to US farms, or even worse- demanding it from some indigenous American reservation, which in this case is Israel.

Societies evolve over time. As long as nothing is forced there is no problem. The creation of Palestine followed international law. Yes, the territory was divided. Yes, the new states were defined by international borders. However, the normal residents of each defined territory automatically became citizens of their respective new state. They became the sovereigns within their territory. They are the ones who could set policies like immigration and land ownership. That is the rule of state succession that continues today.

There was no immigration before this time. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was the same as moving from Albany to Buffalo. It was within the same territory.

That's the same baseless tirade you litter among various threads.
Identify when you're invented "state of Pally'land" ever existed.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil

 

[ForeverYoung436]

That's the thing...You cannot be too specific, those people were as much immigrants as many Jews at the time...but the Arab propaganda uses them to blow up the numbers:
Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Christians:
Palestine
Syria
Transiordan
Cyprus
Malta
Other Mediterranean
Islands
Abyssinia
Egypt
Hejaz-Neid
Iraq
Other Arabian
Territories
Persia
Turkey
Central Asiatic
Territories
Indian Continent
Far Eastern Asia
Algeria
Morocco
Tripoli
Tunis
Other African
Territories
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Holland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Rumania
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
U.S.S.R.
Yugoslavia
Canada
U.S.A.
Central & South
America
Australia

WOW, looks like the US of A. How bad can that be?

So, when you say "Arabs" I am not sure who you are talking about.

That's exactly my point, Arabs in Palestine were as much immigrants as many Jews.
One example of such "Palestinian" Arabs is the Musarwa clan, the biggest Arab family in Israel, or the Misr village- all inhabited by Bedouins and Egyptians from Muhammad Ali Pasha's army.

The notion that they were original owners to whom You (or the UN) automatically assign lands based on untitled claims, is even more ridiculous than British demanding a right of return to US farms, or even worse- demanding it from some indigenous American reservation, which in this case is Israel.

Societies evolve over time. As long as nothing is forced there is no problem. The creation of Palestine followed international law. Yes, the territory was divided. Yes, the new states were defined by international borders. However, the normal residents of each defined territory automatically became citizens of their respective new state. They became the sovereigns within their territory. They are the ones who could set policies like immigration and land ownership. That is the rule of state succession that continues today.

There was no immigration before this time. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was the same as moving from Albany to Buffalo. It was within the same territory.

That's the same baseless tirade you litter among various threads.
Identify when you're invented "state of Pally'land" ever existed.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil

It is immaterial whether Palestine is a state or not. New states can be created, such as South Sudan. The point is that Palestine will never become a fully functioning state if it does not recognize Israel as a state, and agree to live at peace with it. "Palestine" will lose more and more (land, rights, etc.) and Israel will gain more and more, until the Palestinians are able to do that.

 

[P F Tinmore]

WOW, looks like the US of A. How bad can that be?

So, when you say "Arabs" I am not sure who you are talking about.

That's exactly my point, Arabs in Palestine were as much immigrants as many Jews.
One example of such "Palestinian" Arabs is the Musarwa clan, the biggest Arab family in Israel, or the Misr village- all inhabited by Bedouins and Egyptians from Muhammad Ali Pasha's army.

The notion that they were original owners to whom You (or the UN) automatically assign lands based on untitled claims, is even more ridiculous than British demanding a right of return to US farms, or even worse- demanding it from some indigenous American reservation, which in this case is Israel.

Societies evolve over time. As long as nothing is forced there is no problem. The creation of Palestine followed international law. Yes, the territory was divided. Yes, the new states were defined by international borders. However, the normal residents of each defined territory automatically became citizens of their respective new state. They became the sovereigns within their territory. They are the ones who could set policies like immigration and land ownership. That is the rule of state succession that continues today.

There was no immigration before this time. Moving from Amman to Jaffa was the same as moving from Albany to Buffalo. It was within the same territory.

That's the same baseless tirade you litter among various threads.
Identify when you're invented "state of Pally'land" ever existed.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil

It is immaterial whether Palestine is a state or not. New states can be created, such as South Sudan. The point is that Palestine will never become a fully functioning state if it does not recognize Israel as a state, and agree to live at peace with it. "Palestine" will lose more and more (land, rights, etc.) and Israel will gain more and more, until the Palestinians are able to do that.

Palestine will never become a fully functioning state if it does not recognize Israel as a state

Why not?

 

[Shusha]

Why not?

Because eternal war between a neighbor who is more powerful and more capable than you is a fool's errand.

 

[rylah]

Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Moslems :Palestine,Syria, Transiordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Hejaz-Nejd, Iraq, Yemen , Other Arabian Territories, Persia, Turkey, Central Asiatic Territories, Indian Continent, Far Eastern Asia, Algeria,Morocco,Tripoli, Tunis ,Other African Territories, Albania, France, Greece , Spain , United Kingdom, U.S.S.R. , U.S.A. , Central & South America , Australia...

Q. Should we go though the Christians' list of origin countries?

"Arabs" in this context is meaningless. You have to be more specific.

That's the thing...You cannot be too specific, those people were as much immigrants as many Jews at the time...but the Arab propaganda uses them to blow up the numbers:
Birthplaces of Inhabitants of Jerusalem. District circa 1931
Christians:
Palestine
Syria
Transiordan
Cyprus
Malta
Other Mediterranean
Islands
Abyssinia
Egypt
Hejaz-Neid
Iraq
Other Arabian
Territories
Persia
Turkey
Central Asiatic
Territories
Indian Continent
Far Eastern Asia
Algeria
Morocco
Tripoli
Tunis
Other African
Territories
Albania
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Holland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Rumania
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
U.S.S.R.
Yugoslavia
Canada
U.S.A.
Central & South
America
Australia

WOW, looks like the US of A. How bad can that be?

So, when you say "Arabs" I am not sure who you are talking about.

That's exactly my point, Arabs in Palestine were as much immigrants as many Jews.
One example of such "Palestinian" Arabs is the Musarwa clan, the biggest Arab family in Israel, or the Misr village- all inhabited by Bedouins and Egyptians from Muhammad Ali Pasha's army.

The notion that they were original owners to whom You (or the UN) automatically assign lands based on untitled claims, is even more ridiculous than British demanding a right of return to US farms, or even worse- demanding it from some indigenous American reservation, which in this case is Israel.

Societies evolve over time. As long as nothing is forced there is no problem. The creation of Palestine followed international law. Yes, the territory was divided. Yes, the new states were defined by international borders. However, the normal residents of each defined territory automatically became citizens of their respective new state. They became the sovereigns within their territory. They are the ones who could set policies like immigration and land ownership. That is the rule of state succession that continues today.

All good and dandy, even looks good on the paper - none of that happened, it's a phantom based on some beauracratic interpretation written on another continent. Mind You nobody forced the Arabs help Britain invade Palestine.

The only one who was sovereign in that territory was the British empire, and the people saw themselves as citizens of a British government, there was no other state.That's exactly why both parties opposed it. Neither of the them could set any policies, and both had opposing visions of what Palestine should be.


Palestine was created with the mandate to make it a National Homeland for the Jews.
The succession continues today through Israel, as the only effective sovereign state that took part in international agreements with the neighbors.