The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

[Picaro]

Some jobs get modest increases due to inflation adjustments every year; they never match real inflation, but over time it highlights just n how low 'private sector' wages are relative to real inflation, so naturally we get the usual dumbass sniveling form right wingers making stupid claims about Da Evul Yuyunz', as if they're the problem, and not the massive reduction in wages in the 'private sector', where real wages have fallen in some case to less than 30% of 1970 values in adjusted dollars. It makes the suck asses look bad when there is such examples of how low they're paid themselves, and being stupid and timid, they much prefer to snivel about those who had the sense to get inflation adjustments rather than face the facts they're losers with no balls.

Seeking Alpha and Shadowstats have some real inflation calculators, not the silly worthless ones used by the govt. and right wing propaganda sites, and are much more in line with Milton Freidman's numbers. If you like the gold standard, then minimum wage adjusted for real inflation would be around $27 + in gold denominated dollars, and even the most conservative estimates have minimum wage at $`17.65 an hour. I heard an ad for plumbers here, where we're having a 'boom' in building new houses at rip off prices offering '$20 an hour', pretty cheap for skilled labor with 3 years experience.

But you're all going to make millions on your 401K's n stuff. And in real estate, with no money down. Or as programmers. ..

 

[Jarlaxle]

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

not were i worked....

Haha...yeah, mail carriers really bust their balls. They’re such badasses....and the most pissed off people on the planet. NONE have people skills.

you would last a week before you quit....and the first rain you would call in sick...big mouth people like you are the ones that used to give us plenty of laughs...."how hard could this job be?"....a week later,hey what happened to that guy that thought this was such an easy job?...but then you are a loser...

Yeah...sitting in a truck stuffing boxes is so HARRRRRRRRRD!

The mail-folk here do work pretty hard, walking to mail-boxes in Pawling here, in all the weather elements, of course it's a little different sometimes else-where.

Never get out of the trucks here.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

When times were flush, politicians made overly generous promises. Public-employee unions made unrealistic demands. High-profile municipal employees, such as coaches at public universities, have drawn fire for what some consider too-rich retirement benefits, while some first responders scored rich early retirement and disability arrangements.

The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

You mean like Wall-Street jerks?

While school teachers make your kids educated, Police protect, you, and your kids, Fire-man protect your property, and your family in the case of a fire, garbage-man pickup your garbage, and mail-man deliver your mail, and so forth.

Wall-Street maniacs do even less, and f*ck up far more as they "Manage" companies which profit off of anti-Americanism, to outsource to China, and insource illegals from Mexico, to maximize their profits, to the demise of American workers, who get their wages cut down to size, and have to compete with the foreigners.

 

[Picaro]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

When times were flush, politicians made overly generous promises. Public-employee unions made unrealistic demands. High-profile municipal employees, such as coaches at public universities, have drawn fire for what some consider too-rich retirement benefits, while some first responders scored rich early retirement and disability arrangements.

The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

You mean like Wall-Street jerks?

While school teachers make your kids educated, Police protect, you, and your kids, Fire-man protect your property, and your family in the case of a fire, garbage-man pickup your garbage, and mail-man deliver your mail, and so forth.

Wall-Street maniacs do even less, and f*ck up far more as they "Manage" companies which profit off of anti-Americanism, to outsource to China, and insource illegals from Mexico, to maximize their profits, to the demise of American workers, who get their wages cut down to size, and have to compete with the foreigners.

We're all supposed to get paid according to whatever the lowest wages in the world are, maybe 15 cents an hour, according to the tards who would have us believe they're 'experts', have taken 'economics 101 n stuff', and know all about 'productivity'.

All this vast business knowledge just comes automatically to literally any idiot with a couple hundred dollars to incorporate with to keep from suffering the consequences of failure, like losing his own money, house, etc., we're given to understand as well. Wonder why the right wingers don't think workers should get the same protection from losses their bosses get?

 

[g5000]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

Yep. This is a YUGE ticking time bomb.

Hack dipshits will tell you this is a Democrat thing. But this problem was created by politicians of both stripes.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

When times were flush, politicians made overly generous promises. Public-employee unions made unrealistic demands. High-profile municipal employees, such as coaches at public universities, have drawn fire for what some consider too-rich retirement benefits, while some first responders scored rich early retirement and disability arrangements.

The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

You mean like Wall-Street jerks?

While school teachers make your kids educated, Police protect, you, and your kids, Fire-man protect your property, and your family in the case of a fire, garbage-man pickup your garbage, and mail-man deliver your mail, and so forth.

Wall-Street maniacs do even less, and f*ck up far more as they "Manage" companies which profit off of anti-Americanism, to outsource to China, and insource illegals from Mexico, to maximize their profits, to the demise of American workers, who get their wages cut down to size, and have to compete with the foreigners.

We're all supposed to get paid according to whatever the lowest wages in the world are, maybe 15 cents an hour, according to the tards who would have us believe they're 'experts', have taken 'economics 101 n stuff', and know all about 'productivity'.

Republicans can be pretty ridiculous.

A.) Wall-Street is in fact anti-American, they believe we should settle for less money, and or compete with foreigners who will work "Cheaper"

B.) I know a ton of public employees who are very socially Conservative, and have pensions, and do vote Republican.

Just yesterday, I spoke with a guy in a Pawling bar, a Metro-North (Public train employee) he thinks stand your ground should be national, and doesn't believe in public power plants, and is anti-Black, heck he used the N-word in response to 'Finger snaps"

But, instead, they think he shouldn't get paid much, if at all.

The royal flush to their own fan-base.

 

[jillian]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

When times were flush, politicians made overly generous promises. Public-employee unions made unrealistic demands. High-profile municipal employees, such as coaches at public universities, have drawn fire for what some consider too-rich retirement benefits, while some first responders scored rich early retirement and disability arrangements.

The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

says someone who has never been gainfully employed.

 

[jillian]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

When times were flush, politicians made overly generous promises. Public-employee unions made unrealistic demands. High-profile municipal employees, such as coaches at public universities, have drawn fire for what some consider too-rich retirement benefits, while some first responders scored rich early retirement and disability arrangements.

The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

not were i worked....

Haha...yeah, mail carriers really bust their balls. They’re such badasses....and the most pissed off people on the planet. NONE have people skills.

broke losers who don't earn a living and are clueless as to how hard people actually work, really should stop posting so they don't look like the losers they are

 

[jillian]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

You mean like Wall-Street jerks?

While school teachers make your kids educated, Police protect, you, and your kids, Fire-man protect your property, and your family in the case of a fire, garbage-man pickup your garbage, and mail-man deliver your mail, and so forth.

Wall-Street maniacs do even less, and f*ck up far more as they "Manage" companies which profit off of anti-Americanism, to outsource to China, and insource illegals from Mexico, to maximize their profits, to the demise of American workers, who get their wages cut down to size, and have to compete with the foreigners.

We're all supposed to get paid according to whatever the lowest wages in the world are, maybe 15 cents an hour, according to the tards who would have us believe they're 'experts', have taken 'economics 101 n stuff', and know all about 'productivity'.

Republicans can be pretty ridiculous.

A.) Wall-Street is in fact anti-American, they believe we should settle for less money, and or compete with foreigners who will work "Cheaper"

B.) I know a ton of public employees who are very socially Conservative, and have pensions, and do vote Republican.

Just yesterday, I spoke with a guy in a Pawling bar, a Metro-North (Public train employee) he thinks stand your ground should be national, and doesn't believe in public power plants, and is anti-Black, heck he used the N-word in response to 'Finger snaps"

But, instead, they think he shouldn't get paid much, if at all.

The royal flush to their own fan-base.

any public employee who votes republican is voting against their own economic interests

 

[iamwhatiseem]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

Not the case.
Example...
Private employee (A)
Administrative Asst. - salary - $35,360 /yr.
Public employee (B)
Administrative Asst. - salary - $28,000 /yr

(A) retires at 65....total cost to employer = $1,591,200 for 45 years service
(B) retires at 55.... total cost to employer = $980,000 for 35 years.

Both Die at age 82.
Private Sector person has no pension, but the company did a 50% match for max 5% salary. Let's say (A) was a rare employee that actually maxed her savings for all 45 years = $1,786 yr. Company match... for 45 years a total of $79,560.
Total cost of Private (A) = $1,670,760...and they received 45 years service.

(B) Full pension for 37 years = $1,036,000 + 35 years wages = $2,016,000 for 35 years service.

Total Cost per year of service
(A) = $37,128
(B) = $57,600

Public employees cost more than private.

Please back up your claim that Private have average of 65 and Public have average of 55...

Otherwise your whole argument is just a piece of fiction...

We have a VERY large Naval munitions plant near here, last I knew about 2500 employees.
They are, and have been for years, 30 and out. They are civilians.
The U.S. Post Office can be 30 and out and be 56 years old. However, unlike some civil jobs, the benefits are not full.
ALL Federal employees are eligible for retirement at age 56, with minimum 30 years in. They can retire at age 60 with 20 years.

Sorry man... But here is the hole in your arguement...

Federal employees are continuing to retire at ever later-stages of their careers, with the average age at standard voluntary federal retirement now 63, a figure that has risen steadily from 61.3 in 1990, according to a Congressional Research Service report.
Average Federal Retirement Age Continues to Increase

Compare that to this:
Indeed, SmartAsset’s analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data found that the national average retirement age is 63 years old. At the state level, it ranges from 62 to 65.
The Average Retirement Age in Every State in 2015 - SmartAsset

So your whole argument has just fallen apart a bit there... I understand your thinking and I used to think like that too... Strangely I think Fed Employees consider there jobs more vocationally than private workers (in a big general sense). You could understand working as a fireman, police officer or teacher can give you a sense of worth more than a factory worker(I am only really guessing)...

Hmm....I don't know.
Believe me, this area is filled with "young" old guys riding around in motorcycles, retired from the base. It is a running joke around here.
That and my old next door neighbor retired from the fire department in his mid 50's.
It's a lot like old timer auto workers. My father retired from General Motors with a full pension at 55. This was 29 years ago. All those guys like him pulling pensions for decades also killing the auto makers.
Personally, I believe the retirement age is too old.
I am 53, I have been working full time since 1986. 32 years I have been working. If I retire at 65, I will have worked for 44 years. Too long.
Think of all the jobs that would be available for younger folks if the retirement age was 60.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

You mean like Wall-Street jerks?

While school teachers make your kids educated, Police protect, you, and your kids, Fire-man protect your property, and your family in the case of a fire, garbage-man pickup your garbage, and mail-man deliver your mail, and so forth.

Wall-Street maniacs do even less, and f*ck up far more as they "Manage" companies which profit off of anti-Americanism, to outsource to China, and insource illegals from Mexico, to maximize their profits, to the demise of American workers, who get their wages cut down to size, and have to compete with the foreigners.

We're all supposed to get paid according to whatever the lowest wages in the world are, maybe 15 cents an hour, according to the tards who would have us believe they're 'experts', have taken 'economics 101 n stuff', and know all about 'productivity'.

Republicans can be pretty ridiculous.

A.) Wall-Street is in fact anti-American, they believe we should settle for less money, and or compete with foreigners who will work "Cheaper"

B.) I know a ton of public employees who are very socially Conservative, and have pensions, and do vote Republican.

Just yesterday, I spoke with a guy in a Pawling bar, a Metro-North (Public train employee) he thinks stand your ground should be national, and doesn't believe in public power plants, and is anti-Black, heck he used the N-word in response to 'Finger snaps"

But, instead, they think he shouldn't get paid much, if at all.

The royal flush to their own fan-base.

any public employee who votes republican is voting against their own economic interests

If that were the only issue.

While I gather a lot of public educators, librarians, or social workers etc. tend to be Liberal (Democrat leaning)

I also gather that a lot of public police, fireman, rail-workers, garbage-man, and town construction / road crews. etc. tend to be Conservative (Republican leaning)

IDK, if you ask me it seems there's more public pensions on the Right, than the Left.

Yet, a good deal of Republicans tend to think they don't deserve more money, or a better life than "Scab wages"

 

[jillian]

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

The 1950s called. They want your economics back

Federal employee pay, benefits ahead of private sector on average, CBO concludes

you mean when we had a thriving middle class before wackjobs decided unions were a bad thing and we should create an oligarchy.

 

[jillian]

Public employees do not work for a living they get a free ride

You mean like Wall-Street jerks?

While school teachers make your kids educated, Police protect, you, and your kids, Fire-man protect your property, and your family in the case of a fire, garbage-man pickup your garbage, and mail-man deliver your mail, and so forth.

Wall-Street maniacs do even less, and f*ck up far more as they "Manage" companies which profit off of anti-Americanism, to outsource to China, and insource illegals from Mexico, to maximize their profits, to the demise of American workers, who get their wages cut down to size, and have to compete with the foreigners.

We're all supposed to get paid according to whatever the lowest wages in the world are, maybe 15 cents an hour, according to the tards who would have us believe they're 'experts', have taken 'economics 101 n stuff', and know all about 'productivity'.

Republicans can be pretty ridiculous.

A.) Wall-Street is in fact anti-American, they believe we should settle for less money, and or compete with foreigners who will work "Cheaper"

B.) I know a ton of public employees who are very socially Conservative, and have pensions, and do vote Republican.

Just yesterday, I spoke with a guy in a Pawling bar, a Metro-North (Public train employee) he thinks stand your ground should be national, and doesn't believe in public power plants, and is anti-Black, heck he used the N-word in response to 'Finger snaps"

But, instead, they think he shouldn't get paid much, if at all.

The royal flush to their own fan-base.

any public employee who votes republican is voting against their own economic interests

If that were the only issue.

While I gather a lot of public educators, librarians, or social workers etc. tend to be Liberal (Democrat leaning)

I also gather that a lot of public police, fireman, rail-workers, garbage-man, and town construction / road crews. etc. tend to be Conservative (Republican leaning)

IDK, if you ask me it seems there's more public pensions on the Right, than the Left.

Yet, a good deal of Republicans tend to think they don't deserve more money, or a better life than "Scab wages"

there is a part of the right that has been brainwashed into believing that if people aren't living hand to mouth while corporatists get tax cuts that it somehow is a good thing.

they're morons. a strong middle class is what keeps society healthy. trumpkins want to kill anything that is decent.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

The 1950s called. They want your economics back

Federal employee pay, benefits ahead of private sector on average, CBO concludes

you mean when we had a thriving middle class before wackjobs decided unions were a bad thing and we should create an oligarchy.

The global economy of the 1950s is night and day compared to that of 2018. If we implemented the same econ policies today as we had then we'd be Venezuela right now.

 

[Picaro]

Public employees take reduced salaries in exchange for benefits packages.

That you spout nonsense is the problem

The 1950s called. They want your economics back

Federal employee pay, benefits ahead of private sector on average, CBO concludes

you mean when we had a thriving middle class before wackjobs decided unions were a bad thing and we should create an oligarchy.

The global economy of the 1950s is night and day compared to that of 2018. If we implemented the same econ policies today as we had then we'd be Venezuela right now.

Nah; we would have a much smaller and much better educated population, and skyrocketing productivity. Poverty would be in the single digits, mostly the mentally ill, and blacks would be doing much better all around, too.

 

[Two Thumbs]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

When times were flush, politicians made overly generous promises. Public-employee unions made unrealistic demands. High-profile municipal employees, such as coaches at public universities, have drawn fire for what some consider too-rich retirement benefits, while some first responders scored rich early retirement and disability arrangements.

The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

My Mom worked 40 years for the state of Illinois, 10 years into retirement they wanted to cut everything by 1/2 so they could afford to give current employees a raise and more benefits.


since she's older, and there's fewer people like her, the union fucked her over and told her to be thankful.

 

[Pilot1]

Public Sector Unions are a huge, illegal conflict of interest. They bargain against the taxpayer that pays, and employs them. They are a Democrat money laundering scheme that takes taxpayer dollars and converts it into Democrat political donations, and support.

The Dem politicians get in office, and give the public unions lucrative, over market contracts where true compensation is hidden in the BACK END Pension, and Benefits. Now cities, and states can not afford it so are looking for Federal Bailouts in which we all will pay yet again for these Democrat funding mechanisms.

 

[Mac1958]

The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

Pensions across the country make impossible promises in order to attract and retain people and satisfy unions. I saw a LARGE pension that required an 8.75% long-term investment return to stay solvent, which is a JFS (Just Fucking Stupid) projection for ANY pension, which has to mitigate risk carefully.

These things are trillion-dollar self-inflicted wounds.
.

 

[Toro]

And this right here is the problem. Public employees unions make unrealistic demands and corrupt politicians makes promises they know can't be kept in order to get their endorsement and get elected. I saw it time and time again when I was still living in Boston. Whoever got the union backing usually one and so, of course, they were willing to give the union pretty much whatever they wanted. It didn't matter how unrealistic it may have been. By the time the shit hit the fan it would be someone else's problem.

When times were flush, politicians made overly generous promises. Public-employee unions made unrealistic demands. High-profile municipal employees, such as coaches at public universities, have drawn fire for what some consider too-rich retirement benefits, while some first responders scored rich early retirement and disability arrangements.

The pension hole for US cities and states is the size of Japan's economy

It's not quite that simple.

It is true that some politicians have conspired with unions to grant benefits that are unrealistic. There is no doubt about that. It is also true that some pensioners have gamed the system that allowed them to earn over-inflated pension benefits.

However, it is also true that rather than fund pension obligations as promised, politicians also cut taxes during good times and reduced contributions to pension plans when the stock market was generating high returns. Politicians could grandstand that they were cutting taxes and saying that the stock market's high gains would go on forever. But when the stock market tanked, the pension plans became underfunded, which wouldn't have happened, or happened to the same extent, had the politicians kept funding pensions and not cut taxes.

 

[Pilot1]

No, the taxes that fund these things weren't "cut". Look at states like NY, NJ, CA, IL, MA, CT etc. All their overall tax burdens, including Property Taxes have risen consistently. The politicians steal from these funds to finance other pork projects, then right IOU's, just like what the Feds do with SS.