The Politics of Envy

[Vidi]

That failed, miserably.

Pointing out the "class warfare" of Jesus usually does with Teavangelicals.

If liberals weren't anti-Jesus heathen atheists, they would know that Jesus NEVER (repeat NEVER) said that government should take by force and redistribute as they see fit.

Don't try to hide your sick, twisted Communism/Marxism/Socialism behind the bible. Jesus preached giving of your own free will - and that's what conservatives do while liberals hoard their wealth for their greedy selves and rape liberal women at Occupy Wall Street criminal fests....

And if you had bothered to read your bible, youd notice that the only time Jesus came into contact with pure capitalism, he threw them out of his house.

 

[HUGGY]

So what kinda "envy" we talkin here?.. The kind where somebody is dying unneccesarily for lack of medication and treatment and someone that was lucky to be born into a wealthy family has the same ilness but has health insurance and will recover to live a long and full life? Is it envious to wish no one need die or go bankrupt because of unlucky health? This is the ONLY first world country on the planet where that happens. Is it wrong to envy the forsight of those other countries?

 

[SniperFire]

So what kinda "envy" we talkin here?.. The kind where somebody is dying unneccesarily for lack of medication and treatment and someone that was lucky to be born into a wealthy family has the same ilness but has health insurance and will recover to live a long and full life? Is it envious to wish no one need die or go bankrupt because of unlucky health? This is the ONLY first world country on the planet where that happens. Is it wrong to envy the forsight of those other countries?

Pay your own doctor bills, loser.

 

[HUGGY]

So what kinda "envy" we talkin here?.. The kind where somebody is dying unneccesarily for lack of medication and treatment and someone that was lucky to be born into a wealthy family has the same ilness but has health insurance and will recover to live a long and full life? Is it envious to wish no one need die or go bankrupt because of unlucky health? This is the ONLY first world country on the planet where that happens. Is it wrong to envy the forsight of those other countries?

Pay your own doctor bills, loser.

Herein lies the evil of our society.

 

[P@triot]

So what kinda "envy" we talkin here?.. The kind where somebody is dying unneccesarily for lack of medication and treatment and someone that was lucky to be born into a wealthy family has the same ilness but has health insurance and will recover to live a long and full life? Is it envious to wish no one need die or go bankrupt because of unlucky health? This is the ONLY first world country on the planet where that happens. Is it wrong to envy the forsight of those other countries?

Pay your own doctor bills, loser.

Herein lies the evil of our society.

Actually, herein lies the real evil of our society.

The belief that nobody should have personal responsibility and that everyone else owes you something.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's not about envy. It's about rejecting the GOP philosophy and the GOP's attitude towards the Rich.

The country is in a fiscal crisis. The only way our fiscal house can be put in order is if Americans make sacrifices.

The Republican party has determined that the Rich will be exempted from any share of that sacrifice, in fact, the Republican party has determined that the Rich will actually be beneficiaries of any GOP plan to deal with our fiscal problems.

It is not envy to object to that stance. It is common sense.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

These days it seems to be all about class warfare, promoting envy against those who have more by those who have less...

 

[HUGGY]

Pay your own doctor bills, loser.

Herein lies the evil of our society.

Actually, herein lies the real evil of our society.

The belief that nobody should have personal responsibility and that everyone else owes you something.

It's a damn shame the poor don't make your life easier by wishing they were MORE poor. Those DAMN poor people. You should be merciful like HItler and just put em out of thier misery...I mean after you make em work in the camps first.

 

[auditor0007]

These days it seems to be all about class warfare, promoting envy against those who have more by those who have less. Let's take more from them and redistribute it to somebody else, and social justice is achieved. Supposedly. They don't deserve it, not that much, some didn't really earn it anyway. IT'S NOT FAIR. Who gets to decide what's fair? Just wonderin'.

Envy is a very destructive force, both for an individual and for society as a whole. Instead of thinking and doing whatever is necessary to get ahead, we're concerned with what someone else has, and taking it from him, her, or them. You tell me, where does it end? Some want to return the days when the marginal tax rate exceeded 90%, hell let's take it all! As though there are no repercussions, no consequences. Does the left not see that entrepeneurship and innovation are impaired when you cut the reward down to next to nothing? Who's going to risk their time, effort, and money? As we speak, more than a few wealthy frenchmen are moving their money out of France and leaving the country. As did the wealthy in Sweden 20 years ago when they substantially raised taxes, and everywhere else when the tax rate gets too high.

Beyond that, a message is sent when you engage in this kind of politics. We are turned against each other, and another reason is added to be resentful, even vengeful. Look at the violence of the OWSers, as we approach the conventions and a long hot summer of further discontent fueled by UE that remains stubbornly high particularly among the young, does anyone think it'll all blow over?

Are there any of you who really think that all our problems are solved by taking all or almost all the money earned by the rich? Most of 'em got rich by busting their humps, or by inventing something new and better, or by improving a product or service. Do you really think they continue to do so when you take away their incentive? Sounds a lot like communist Russia to me, how'd that work out?

When we worry about this we take our eyes off the real issue, which is trying to create more jobs and more opportunities for as many people as possible to get on the income ladder and start moving up. We need to be more effective at that, and stop obsessing about those who have already achieved success.

Ah, the wonderful right wing talking point. The reason the economy is so bad is because we haven't lowered taxes enough even though they are at their lowest level in over 60 years. Keep thinking liberals want to tax the rich at 90%. It's what cons like to tell each other as they slap each other on the back thinking they are smarter than everyone else. The truth is that taxes have been lowered too much at a time when we are having to spend more on SS and Medicare, along with many social safety programs due to the horrible economy. The ever increasing debt that is the result is leading investors to fear for the worst and keeping them hesitant to invest in any type of growth. It's a funny thing in a way, because we are going to have massive growth over the next 50 years as the US population continues to grow.

As for the tax rates, taxing the wealthy a little bit more, since they actually can afford it, is not such a bad thing, because they actually can afford it. That doesn't mean 90% rates, it just means raising them a bit. Honestly, just ending the Bush tax cuts across the board would be a decent starting point. This idea that the rich will stop investing because we tax them an additional 10% is nonsense. Rich people enjoy making money, and they will continue to try to make money regardless of the tax rates. The US still has one of the lowest tax rates in the entire developed world. This idea that the wealthy will flee is a bit silly. Do you think they will head to Belarus? Most of the countries with lower tax rates than the US are not places most people would want to be trapped.

One last thing; if we want to cut federal spending, there are many places to do so. I am not opposed to some cuts. Want to cut the Department of Education? Fine by me. Nobody there teaches anything. There are many areas where we could cut spending without trashing good programs or hurting the poor. In the end, if those on the right win this battle, it will lead to bad things for everyone. While the right is so worried about keeping their own, they miss the point that a strong economy includes a strong middle class and a smaller poor class. Making the middle class smaller and adding to the number of poor just so the wealthy can keep more of their earnings will actually lead to a loss in income for those who are very wealthy. This concept is the one the cons seem to miss completely.

I take it then that you'd like to see the Bush tax cuts expire?

Yes.

 

[auditor0007]

Any of the revolutionary class warriors want to explain to me why LeBron James (who made over $100M last year) is NOT paying his fair share? Why Obama keeps villifying him?

While 1/2 of the American tax payers pay NOTHING (except an increasingly smaller part of their "premiums" for MediCare and SS)

My guess will be no takers from the braves out there..

Simple.

LeBron doesn't pay his "fair share" because of the Bush Era tax rates. Obama doesn't villify him, but does think he should pay more, and he should, since his job and career is not about creating jobs.

And half the country pays not INCOME tax because of, again, the Bush Era Tax Rates and/or because they have no job.

What else can I help you with?

90% tax rates are what built the middle class and the infrastructure, starting in the 70's with Paul Weyrich, Kochs and others, the propaganda machine was built to lie to the american people about trickle down, etc.

Serious damage has been done by the right in this country ever since, it is like a war on the middle class.

This isn't actually true. There never was a 90% tax rate in reality. If anyone paid that rate, they had a very bad accountant. Yes, the wealthy and super wealthy are paying much less than they did in the past, and it is a problem, but do not be fooled into thinking they ever paid 90%. Very few ever paid over 50%.

 

[auditor0007]

Our Founders did recognize, however, that stupid people should not be voting.


They knew stupid people would put people such as Pelosi in office and just vote themselves the other guys money, and eventually destroy our civilization.

Bright people, our Founding Fathers.

Yes they were, but they were also very arrogant. They lived in a society that is very very different from ours today.

 

[auditor0007]

Wiseacre - you could not have said it any better. Just look at the venom from the left on this thread alone. They are just full of hate and envy for anyone who has been more successful than them.

They simply can't accept that others are more talented, smarter, stronger, work harder, or just have more luck. They want the results for everyone to be "equal" but ignore the fact that the effort, talent, contributions, etc. are not equal.

In simple terms, they are everything that both the US and the bible stand against. They are a cancer to this nation, and they will be defeated just we defeated the British, the Nazi's, and the Soviets.

The thing that makes you and those like you look so stupid are statements just like this one. You will find very few on the left who believe everything should be equal, that everyone should earn the same amount regardless of their job or career. Where do you screwballs come up with this stuff? It makes you look silly.

 

[auditor0007]

So what kinda "envy" we talkin here?.. The kind where somebody is dying unneccesarily for lack of medication and treatment and someone that was lucky to be born into a wealthy family has the same ilness but has health insurance and will recover to live a long and full life? Is it envious to wish no one need die or go bankrupt because of unlucky health? This is the ONLY first world country on the planet where that happens. Is it wrong to envy the forsight of those other countries?

Pay your own doctor bills, loser.

It's good to know you support death panels for those who can't afford to pay. Good for you.

 

[auditor0007]

Pay your own doctor bills, loser.

Herein lies the evil of our society.

Actually, herein lies the real evil of our society.

The belief that nobody should have personal responsibility and that everyone else owes you something.

Again, you are just very confused. It's unfortunate that you buy into the right wing propaganda.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Waaaaaa. Learn to read, asshole.

I used your phrase EXACTLY --- Lemme remind you what you said..

Most wealthy people got wealthy not entirely by their own work, but by being able to take a share of the work of others.

But I understand that you're being evasive, not answering my questions, because to admit THOSE RICH people have NOT "tak[en] a share of the work of others" would make you look whiny..

Kinda dissappointed me there Carbineer...

Do you know why the call stockholders 'shareholders'? Because they own a share of a business. If they get a dividend from the stock they own, did they do work at the company to get that dividend? No. They get it from the work of others.

The others, i.e., the actual workers at the business, get paid to. For their work. That is their 'share'.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Waaaaaa. Learn to read, asshole.

I used your phrase EXACTLY --- Lemme remind you what you said..

Most wealthy people got wealthy not entirely by their own work, but by being able to take a share of the work of others.

But I understand that you're being evasive, not answering my questions, because to admit THOSE RICH people have NOT "tak[en] a share of the work of others" would make you look whiny..

Kinda dissappointed me there Carbineer...

Ray Kroc, the RICH founder of McDonald's. Made millions and millions off that franchise. Did he flip every burger ever sold there? Did he lay every brick ever put into a McDonalds building? Did he mop every floor and clean every grill of every McDonald's at the end of every day?

Did he never make any money off the work of others? Is that your contention??

 

[uscitizen]

A fact in US capitalism. Those who actually do the most work to make a company successful are paid the least in the corporation.

 

[SniperFire]

A fact in US capitalism. Those who actually do the most work to make a company successful are paid the least in the corporation.

Grunt work is a commodity.

 

[Mac1958]

A fact in US capitalism. Those who actually do the most work to make a company successful are paid the least in the corporation.

First, those who started the company took all the risks and did the hard work to get it off the ground. Only someone who has actually made that sacrifice can really understand it. They deserve whatever financial reward they get.

Second, other high-paid people within the company have skills that make them worth that amount. Otherwise the company would hire someone else for less. The market economic system applies to the job market, as well.

Third, lower-paid employees who are willing to improve their skills, take the personal risks and make the sacrifices required are quite welcome to get a higher-paying job within the company or even start their own company at some point. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but where they're ready. It's up to them.

Are there exceptions to these rules? Of course. But in general, for those at the top of a company pay scale, they're already paid their dues.

.

 

[Vidi]

A fact in US capitalism. Those who actually do the most work to make a company successful are paid the least in the corporation.

Grunt work is a commodity.

That may be the first true statement I've seen you make. I couldn't agree more.