The Politics of Envy

[flacaltenn]

Ray Kroc, the RICH founder of McDonald's. Made millions and millions off that franchise. Did he flip every burger ever sold there? Did he lay every brick ever put into a McDonalds building? Did he mop every floor and clean every grill of every McDonald's at the end of every day?

Did he never make any money off the work of others? Is that your contention??

He made his money off of the concept of revolutionizing food delivery systems. And providing VALUE to customers and sacrificing his entire life to serve others.

As a side effect of that, he provided a VOLUNTARY opportunity to others like the contractors who built those buildings, to provide SERVICES to his vision and leadership. Also increased the opportunity for folks who were just entering the job market to START their service to others.

He COULD have sold his vision at any point for a handsome profit --- couldn't he? But it was NOT about cash. He VOLUNTEERED to continue the backbreaking pace of leadership for the organization..

He did NOTHING wrong. He DESERVES the profit.

Which represents LESS THAN A PENNY for every meal sold. Can the begging collective afford that? Could they elect to not be employed or be served by Ray Kroc? sure..

?

Okay so you acknowledge that Kroc got a share of the value of other people's work. You need to go back and read my original statement and maybe you can address my point instead of galloping off on these inane non sequiturs and deflections.

He took NOTHING from his employees.. He created TRAINING for them. He offered opportunity for kids with no previous employment history. He kept NONE of them in servitude. Did Ray CHARGE THEM for the training and the opportunity? No.

In fact, McDonalds is very proud of the doctors, lawyers and chemical engineers that started their working careers with Ray Kroc...

The employees are part of a larger marketplace where skills are matched to reimbursement. You do not deserve to be paid what your boss is being paid until you demonstrate that you able and willing to do that job. They took no risk in the venture. They had no vision for the operations' direction. But they did willingly make their own career path and negotiated their OWN service to others.

 

[Vidi]

He made his money off of the concept of revolutionizing food delivery systems. And providing VALUE to customers and sacrificing his entire life to serve others.

As a side effect of that, he provided a VOLUNTARY opportunity to others like the contractors who built those buildings, to provide SERVICES to his vision and leadership. Also increased the opportunity for folks who were just entering the job market to START their service to others.

He COULD have sold his vision at any point for a handsome profit --- couldn't he? But it was NOT about cash. He VOLUNTEERED to continue the backbreaking pace of leadership for the organization..

He did NOTHING wrong. He DESERVES the profit.

Which represents LESS THAN A PENNY for every meal sold. Can the begging collective afford that? Could they elect to not be employed or be served by Ray Kroc? sure..

?

Okay so you acknowledge that Kroc got a share of the value of other people's work. You need to go back and read my original statement and maybe you can address my point instead of galloping off on these inane non sequiturs and deflections.

He took NOTHING from his employees.. He created TRAINING for them. He offered opportunity for kids with no previous employment history. He kept NONE of them in servitude. Did Ray CHARGE THEM for the training and the opportunity? No.

In fact, McDonalds is very proud of the doctors, lawyers and chemical engineers that started their working careers with Ray Kroc...

The employees are part of a larger marketplace where skills are matched to reimbursement. You do not deserve to be paid what your boss is being paid until you demonstrate that you able and willing to do that job. They took no risk in the venture. They had no vision for the operations' direction. But they did willingly make their own career path and negotiated their OWN service to others.

That's actually not true.

An employee must be paid less than the value of their work in order for the employer to make a profit. That's not exploitation, it's business.

 

[signelect]

Class warefare has always exisited, it is not new. The haves have always held the have nots down but in the end who creates the jobs? It isn't the guy under the bridge or walking the streest complaining. Some will always have more than others. I believe in opportunity, equal opportuity for all.

 

[Vidi]

Class warefare has always exisited, it is not new. The haves have always held the have nots down but in the end who creates the jobs? It isn't the guy under the bridge or walking the streest complaining. Some will always have more than others. I believe in opportunity, equal opportuity for all.

Jobs are created by the demand for products. Never by a supply of products.

 

[flacaltenn]

These days it seems to be all about class warfare,

Only according to the cultists who worship the wealthy.

OopdyDoo ----

I doubt the worship is politcally divided.. Look at the pop culture idolation of the rich.. Since LifeStyles of the Rich and Famous -- People mag -- Housewives of Podunk, MO.
Donny Trump as a TV star --- it's pervasive ---- NOT ideaological. Probably would all poll highly on the list of favorite OWS media...

 

[paulitician]

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the Gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Sir Winston Churchill

 

[flacaltenn]

Okay so you acknowledge that Kroc got a share of the value of other people's work. You need to go back and read my original statement and maybe you can address my point instead of galloping off on these inane non sequiturs and deflections.

He took NOTHING from his employees.. He created TRAINING for them. He offered opportunity for kids with no previous employment history. He kept NONE of them in servitude. Did Ray CHARGE THEM for the training and the opportunity? No.

In fact, McDonalds is very proud of the doctors, lawyers and chemical engineers that started their working careers with Ray Kroc...

The employees are part of a larger marketplace where skills are matched to reimbursement. You do not deserve to be paid what your boss is being paid until you demonstrate that you able and willing to do that job. They took no risk in the venture. They had no vision for the operations' direction. But they did willingly make their own career path and negotiated their OWN service to others.

That's actually not true.

An employee must be paid less than the value of their work in order for the employer to make a profit. That's not exploitation, it's business.

Nope -- value of your employees work is not even under YOUR SOLE control.. The value of their work varies with the economy, your competition, demographics, etc.. An employer does not dictate wages in a vacuum...

You COULD however decide to pay SOME OF them ABOVE market wages to retain talent. (and maybe be stingy with others) But the idea that they are all equal automatons that you alone have captive is not accurate.

Of ALL the pressures on your business to show a profit -- the ability to RETAIN talent is probably not the one you want to muck with...

If you accept the premise that YOU are taking from your employees -- you'd have to accept the corrolary that the dolt Charlie is is being TAKEN by your star employee Joe because JOE gets paid more..

A concept that would just blow Carbineers little mind eh?

 

[SniperFire]

Class warefare has always exisited, it is not new. The haves have always held the have nots down but in the end who creates the jobs? It isn't the guy under the bridge or walking the streest complaining. Some will always have more than others. I believe in opportunity, equal opportuity for all.

Jobs are created by the demand for products. Never by a supply of products.

Ah, the circle jerk anti-logic of the communist redistributionists.

'Demand', as you are describing, cannot occur independent of productivity / wages from some source.

Millions of starving Africans 'demand' food. That doesn't mean shit until food is afforded.

 

[midcan5]

Just another example of the 'politics of distraction,' instead of addressing job loss due to outsourcing, unequal pay scales, board and executive malfeasance, loss of manufacturing to low wage third world nations, the right wing talking point creators make up words which they attach to Americans who consider inequality not only immoral, but economically unsustainable. It demonstrates how compliant those who use these words are and how the puppet master plays them.

"We're always saying that “children are our nation’s most valuable resource.” Unfortunately, we don’t behave as if we believe it. Between 2000 and 2010, the number of children living in poverty in America increased by 41 percent, and now includes nearly one-quarter of our kids. Growing up in poverty is bad. It leads to lower graduation rates (a third of these children will not graduate from high school); lower incomes (nearly half will still be living in poverty at age 35); and lower life expectancy (by about eight years)." Share the Wealth - NYTimes.com

Income Inequality is Bad for Society. Really Bad. » Sociological Images

Timothy Noah on The Inequality Crisis | FiveBooks | The Browser

Why do the poor support right-wing parties? A cross-national analysis « Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science

 

[flacaltenn]

It's not about envy. It's about rejecting the GOP philosophy and the GOP's attitude towards the Rich.

The country is in a fiscal crisis. The only way our fiscal house can be put in order is if Americans make sacrifices.

The Republican party has determined that the Rich will be exempted from any share of that sacrifice, in fact, the Republican party has determined that the Rich will actually be beneficiaries of any GOP plan to deal with our fiscal problems.

It is not envy to object to that stance. It is common sense.

political rhetoric.. If I was a Republican, i'd give you the 39% bracket back QUICKLY. Like a year or two ago.. Just to conclusively demonstrate how little that actually matters..
Then I would CRUSH the DEMOCRAT party for continuing to whine about class when their punitive envy-driven policies made things worse.

An increase in the top bracket only taxes money above 250,000 taxable. In other words, if you had 260,000 taxable, the 39% only applies to the 10,000 above 250,000.

Your tax bill on that 10,000 would go from 3600, where it is now, to 3900. 300 bucks.

Very good elementary math.. As I said -- if we gave EVERYTHING you wanted on tax proposals -- it wouldn't fix squat. And it would likely doom your party to hell.. You ought to thank the Republicans for stopping the suicidal tendencies of the radicals in charge of your party..

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the Gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Sir Winston Churchill

Churchill endorsed the national health service, dingo brain. By the standards of what you and your right wing lunatic friends define as "socialist", Churchill was a flaming Bolshevik.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/opinion/lweb28health.html

In 1944 Winston Churchill, while still prime minister, said that “our policy is to create a national health service in order to ensure that everybody in the country irrespective of means, age, sex or occupation shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available.”

But hey - don't let factual history cloud your judgement.

 

[paulitician]

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the Gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Sir Winston Churchill

Churchill endorsed the national health service, dingo brain. By the standards of what you and your right wing lunatic friends define as "socialist", Churchill was a flaming Bolshevik.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/opinion/lweb28health.html

In 1944 Winston Churchill, while still prime minister, said that “our policy is to create a national health service in order to ensure that everybody in the country irrespective of means, age, sex or occupation shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available.”

But hey - don't let factual history cloud your judgement.

His assessment of you Socialists/Progressives is very clear. Those are his own words. And he was damn Spot-On.

 

[Too Tall]

Just another example of the 'politics of distraction,' instead of addressing job loss due to outsourcing, unequal pay scales, board and executive malfeasance, loss of manufacturing to low wage third world nations, the right wing talking point creators make up words which they attach to Americans who consider inequality not only immoral, but economically unsustainable. It demonstrates how compliant those who use these words are and how the puppet master plays them.

"We're always saying that “children are our nation’s most valuable resource.” Unfortunately, we don’t behave as if we believe it. Between 2000 and 2010, the number of children living in poverty in America increased by 41 percent, and now includes nearly one-quarter of our kids. Growing up in poverty is bad. It leads to lower graduation rates (a third of these children will not graduate from high school); lower incomes (nearly half will still be living in poverty at age 35); and lower life expectancy (by about eight years)." Share the Wealth - NYTimes.com

Income Inequality is Bad for Society. Really Bad. » Sociological Images

Timothy Noah on The Inequality Crisis | FiveBooks | The Browser

Why do the poor support right-wing parties? A cross-national analysis « Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science

How many of those kids living in poverty are a product of a single Mom?

 

[Vidi]

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the Gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Sir Winston Churchill

Churchill endorsed the national health service, dingo brain. By the standards of what you and your right wing lunatic friends define as "socialist", Churchill was a flaming Bolshevik.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/opinion/lweb28health.html

In 1944 Winston Churchill, while still prime minister, said that “our policy is to create a national health service in order to ensure that everybody in the country irrespective of means, age, sex or occupation shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available.”

But hey - don't let factual history cloud your judgement.

His assessment of you Socialists/Progressives is very clear. Those are his own words. And he was damn Spot-On.

His definition of what constituted socialism is radically different than yours. For example, you call progressives socialists. Eisenhower was a progressive, Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Just another example of the 'politics of distraction,' instead of addressing job loss due to outsourcing, unequal pay scales, board and executive malfeasance, loss of manufacturing to low wage third world nations, the right wing talking point creators make up words which they attach to Americans who consider inequality not only immoral, but economically unsustainable. It demonstrates how compliant those who use these words are and how the puppet master plays them.

"We're always saying that “children are our nation’s most valuable resource.” Unfortunately, we don’t behave as if we believe it. Between 2000 and 2010, the number of children living in poverty in America increased by 41 percent, and now includes nearly one-quarter of our kids. Growing up in poverty is bad. It leads to lower graduation rates (a third of these children will not graduate from high school); lower incomes (nearly half will still be living in poverty at age 35); and lower life expectancy (by about eight years)." Share the Wealth - NYTimes.com

Income Inequality is Bad for Society. Really Bad. » Sociological Images

Timothy Noah on The Inequality Crisis | FiveBooks | The Browser

Why do the poor support right-wing parties? A cross-national analysis « Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science

Define 'poverty' before you start your rant again. Over $23K for a family of 4. Plus $4,800 in Food Stamps. Section 8 is worth another $7,200. Right there is $35K a year. That AIN'T poverty.

Then realize that it's not the middle-class folks that are popping out kids like party favors. That's why your numbers are going up.

So don't come crying to me about 'the children' and 'poverty', it's BULLSHIT!

 

[Vidi]

Class warefare has always exisited, it is not new. The haves have always held the have nots down but in the end who creates the jobs? It isn't the guy under the bridge or walking the streest complaining. Some will always have more than others. I believe in opportunity, equal opportuity for all.

Jobs are created by the demand for products. Never by a supply of products.

Ah, the circle jerk anti-logic of the communist redistributionists.

'Demand', as you are describing, cannot occur independent of productivity / wages from some source.

Millions of starving Africans 'demand' food. That doesn't mean shit until food is afforded.

Your understanding is so limited that I don't have the time or energy to correct your multitude of mistakes.

 

[Vidi]

Just another example of the 'politics of distraction,' instead of addressing job loss due to outsourcing, unequal pay scales, board and executive malfeasance, loss of manufacturing to low wage third world nations, the right wing talking point creators make up words which they attach to Americans who consider inequality not only immoral, but economically unsustainable. It demonstrates how compliant those who use these words are and how the puppet master plays them.

"We're always saying that “children are our nation’s most valuable resource.” Unfortunately, we don’t behave as if we believe it. Between 2000 and 2010, the number of children living in poverty in America increased by 41 percent, and now includes nearly one-quarter of our kids. Growing up in poverty is bad. It leads to lower graduation rates (a third of these children will not graduate from high school); lower incomes (nearly half will still be living in poverty at age 35); and lower life expectancy (by about eight years)." Share the Wealth - NYTimes.com

Income Inequality is Bad for Society. Really Bad. » Sociological Images

Timothy Noah on The Inequality Crisis | FiveBooks | The Browser

Why do the poor support right-wing parties? A cross-national analysis « Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science

Define 'poverty' before you start your rant again. Over $23K for a family of 4. Plus $4,800 in Food Stamps. Section 8 is worth another $7,200. Right there is $35K a year. That AIN'T poverty.

Then realize that it's not the middle-class folks that are popping out kids like party favors. That's why your numbers are going up.

So don't come crying to me about 'the children' and 'poverty', it's BULLSHIT!

Ahhhhh the popping out kids argument. Same old argument used by racists and elitists alike.


Which are you?

 

[uscitizen]

Thge disparity between wages paid to management and workers has grown much wider during the past 2 decades.

 

[flacaltenn]

Thge disparity between wages paid to management and workers has grown much wider during the past 2 decades.

because all the honest lower middle class manufacturing jobs left.. Love Apple? -- I've been to HQ in Silicon Valley. No manufacturing there at all. Apple demand increases and factories in Asia are doing the hiring. DEMAND -- no longer drives jobs the way it used to..

That and the disparity in the growing Service Industries have always been skewed that way.

 

[ConzHateUSA]

Thge disparity between wages paid to management and workers has grown much wider during the past 2 decades.

because all the honest lower middle class manufacturing jobs left.. Love Apple? -- I've been to HQ in Silicon Valley. No manufacturing there at all. Apple demand increases and factories in Asia are doing the hiring. DEMAND -- no longer drives jobs the way it used to..

That and the disparity in the growing Service Industries have always been skewed that way.

so that is why the head of United Health paid himself one billion dollars while customer service reps were paid $20k ?

that is the disparity you are defending somehow?

jesus