The Prez is WRONG! (from a Trump Loyalist)

[TNHarley]

Earlier today, Our Beloved President tweeted: "For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect....It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons."

I believe that DJT is the best President we have had in a long time, but in this he is wrong. It is entirely up to the Governors; the President can only recommend, make suggestions, remove federal constraints.

Sorry. He's my President but in this case he is wrong.

This actually is an interesting question. I believe that the president during a national emergency could shut down the country as the governors did, and as such the president would have the power to lift the emergency constraints he put in place.

But it wasn't the president who shut down the country, but the governors who shut down their individual states, so the president as you said, has no power to order the reopening of the things the governors closed.

In short, only the person who does something, has the power to undo it.

The President has Emergency powers now in each and every state in the country.

Trump is correct about this, but he has been using a light hand so far and letting the governors make the big decisions as is probably the best approach.

Can you point me to "emergency powers" in the constitution?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I'd say you are technically correct...but in practical terms wrong. If Trump usurps that authority and the governors surrender that authority to the President...then he has created the authority. The governors, being politicians, obviously see the advantages of allowing Trump to make the hard decision and take on the responsibility. And those governors who don't surrender the authority...what are they going to do? Arrest folks who return to work? They'll be out on their ear in a heartbeat.

And we're right back where we started...Trump can through force of will open the economy...because if he says it, people will do it.

People are sitting at home watching their economic security, which was earned over so many years,
evaporate and they want to go back to work and earn some money.

It's up to them to put pressure on their governors to expedite this process of transitioning back to a fully functioning economy. Governors will buckle to Trump if they feel the heat from their base.

 

[JimBowie1958]

JimBowie Jesus Christ, read the TENTH AMENDMENT!

Your posting is 100% wrong. The Federal Government may have some of those powers when there has been a formal declaration of war by Congress. Not now. Not the President.

I think the problem is JimBowie thinks that if the constitution doesn't specifically ban something, then the president has the right to do it. That's wholeheartedly THE OPPOSITE of what the 10th amendment states. Which is, of course, that any rights not granted to the president are granted to the states. And NOWHERE in the Constitution does it give the president the right to close or open a states interstate commerce. So that means, by default, that falls within the rights of the INDIVIDUAL STATES. Not the president.

Lol, no, dude, I simply recognise that your simplistic reading of the Tenth Amenndment has been irrelevant for more than a century after the author of the 14th Amendment has insisted that the 14th Amendment extends all rights of the Constitution to the states.

So your objection to the Presidents authority is not only bullshit due to the Tenth Amendment being made irrelevant mostly, but also no SCOTUS ruling, law assed by Congress or EO byy a President since Roosevelt and the the beginning of the Cold War gives you a single leg to stand on.

Now you can go ahead and pat yourself on the back and claim 'victory', whatever that means in a simpl online discussion, but none of your claims amount to more than a pile of shit when the entirety of all three branches of the Federali goobermint say you are wrong, can argue why you are wrong and go about their bidness without any regard to your ridiculous bullshit.

What you think the law says, or what the Constitution says is completely without merit, standing or an atom of importance to anyone other than you and others in your little circle jerk.

 

[TNHarley]

JimBowie Jesus Christ, read the TENTH AMENDMENT!

Your posting is 100% wrong. The Federal Government may have some of those powers when there has been a formal declaration of war by Congress. Not now. Not the President.

I think the problem is JimBowie thinks that if the constitution doesn't specifically ban something, then the president has the right to do it. That's wholeheartedly THE OPPOSITE of what the 10th amendment states. Which is, of course, that any rights not granted to the president are granted to the states. And NOWHERE in the Constitution does it give the president the right to close or open a states interstate commerce. So that means, by default, that falls within the rights of the INDIVIDUAL STATES. Not the president.

Lol, no, dude, I simply recognise that your simplistic reading of the Tenth Amenndment has been irrelevant for more than a century after the author of the 14th Amendment has insisted that the 14th Amendment extends all rights of the Constitution to the states.

So your objection to the Presidents authority is not only bullshit due to the Tenth Amendment being made irrelevant mostly, but also no SCOTUS ruling, law assed by Congress or EO byy a President since Roosevelt and the the beginning of the Cold War gives you a single leg to stand on.

Now you can go ahead and pat yourself on the back and claim 'victory', whatever that means in a simpl online discussion, but none of your claims amount to more than a pile of shit when the entirety of all three branches of the Federali goobermint say you are wrong, can argue why you are wrong and go about their bidness without any regard to your ridiculous bullshit.

What you think the law says, or what the Constitution says is completely without merit, standing or an atom of importance to anyone other than you and others in your little circle jerk.

Only thing that popped in my head after reading this was the "bah bah blacksheep" rhyme.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Can you point me to "emergency powers" in the constitution?

It is in the article 2 section 1 clause 1 under war powers and executive powers.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."​

Section 2 clause 1:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; "​

Section 3 clause 5

(The president must) "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." ​

So, the President must faithfully execute the laws passed by Congress, and in regard to what specific military and peace time power the President has, there is also this:

Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

As with the states, federal law imbues designated federal officials with broad powers that allow them to respond to and assist states and localities in responding to emergencies even without a federal emergency declaration. Thus, the secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) has broad authority under Sections 301 and 311 of the Public Health Service Act to provide assistance to states and localities.2 Federal law also provides the president and other federal officials with authority to declare emergencies under specified conditions. Some of these federal authorities relevant to the public health context include:​

• President—Stafford Act and the National Emergencies Act.
  • HHS Secretary—Public Health Service Act Section 319 and Social Security Act Section 1135.

Actions and Authorities Triggered by Federal Emergency Declarations ​

​

Federal emergency declarations activate legal and programmatic responses from federal agencies including:​

• Activating federal assistance to states in the form of financial, personnel, services, logistical, and technical assistance.
  • Triggering emergency provisions in other laws including Social Security Act Section 1135 waivers and statutory immunities and liability protections, such as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).
  • Easing regulatory requirements on individuals, organizations, and state and local governments.
  • Activating the National Response Framework, National Incident Management System, and other emergency response protocols and systems.

Implications of State and Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

An emergency declaration can change the legal and operational landscape in which governments, private organizations, and the public operate during an emergency. Emergency declarations, especially if they occur at multiple levels (federal, state, local), can confuse organizations and individuals. All state agencies need to understand the implications of operating under an emergency declaration, especially those that are not directly involved in response activities such as state procurement offices. States must also understand the legal and operational effects of a federal emergency declaration. Federal declarations may affect compliance with federal legal and programmatic requirements. Federal declarations generally do not alter state legislative and regulatory requirements; however, state law will be preempted to the extent it conflicts with federal law. State declarations are necessary to modify states legal requirements.

During H1N1, some states declared emergencies, while neighboring states did not. For some states, the relatively mild severity of the H1N1 influenza pandemic did not rise to the level needed to trigger the statutory requirements for an emergency declaration, or made states conclude that existing authorities were sufficient to handle the response. Differences in states’ decisions to declare an emergency, as well as the federal declaration and World Health Organization pandemic levels, proved confusing for healthcare providers, the private sector, and the public. State agencies were required to clearly communicate the impact of various declarations had in responding to H1N1.​

I know you dont really give a shit about the actual laws and legal basis for the POTUS executive powers, but there it is anyway.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I don't recall seeing a Declaration of a National Emergency- to declare is to publicly state an event to occur.
However, congress has set a precedent with the Authorization to use Military Force in the undeclared and unjust War on Terror- a cowards way out. It also funds the undeclared war(s) on citizens, i.e., the war on drugs and the war on poverty both of which are war on wealth through confiscation of wealth and property- and BOTH sides subscribe to the use of borrow to spend under false pretense- the lesser of anything, in this case the arguments about evil, still represents evil. It doesn't really matter which political stripe is worn. BOTH will continue to act in an evil manner under false pretense which means lying, (under oath) which is immoral and criminal.

Lying under oath: When one raises their right hand and claims (swears in the affirmative) they will protect and defend, to the best of their ability is either an out right lie or at least just cause for seriously questioning their ability, or both.

POTUS can do or say with the alphabet agencies anything his little heart desires- but, it has to be enFORCED-
Sheriffs have the authority to NOT enforce. The Military can question and disagree to act.
Both are constituionally protected- but, as we've seen, knowledge about the constitution is severely limited and what little is known is often as not intentionally misinterpreted- and worse, believed by allegedly educated citizens.

That is 100% true, but the Sheriffs operate on the recommendations of the local AG, and if the legal profession has a concensus that XYZ or 123 is true or false, that is what the sheriffs will be advised is the law of the land that they are sworn to enforce.

That usually makes a big difference.

 

[TNHarley]

Can you point me to "emergency powers" in the constitution?

It is in the article 2 section 1 clause 1 under war powers and executive powers.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."​

Section 2 clause 1:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; "​

Section 3 clause 5

(The president must) "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." ​

So, the President must faithfully execute the laws passed by Congress, and in regard to what specific military and peace time power the President has, there is also this:

Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

As with the states, federal law imbues designated federal officials with broad powers that allow them to respond to and assist states and localities in responding to emergencies even without a federal emergency declaration. Thus, the secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) has broad authority under Sections 301 and 311 of the Public Health Service Act to provide assistance to states and localities.2 Federal law also provides the president and other federal officials with authority to declare emergencies under specified conditions. Some of these federal authorities relevant to the public health context include:​

• President—Stafford Act and the National Emergencies Act.
  • HHS Secretary—Public Health Service Act Section 319 and Social Security Act Section 1135.

Actions and Authorities Triggered by Federal Emergency Declarations ​

​

Federal emergency declarations activate legal and programmatic responses from federal agencies including:​

• Activating federal assistance to states in the form of financial, personnel, services, logistical, and technical assistance.
  • Triggering emergency provisions in other laws including Social Security Act Section 1135 waivers and statutory immunities and liability protections, such as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).
  • Easing regulatory requirements on individuals, organizations, and state and local governments.
  • Activating the National Response Framework, National Incident Management System, and other emergency response protocols and systems.

Implications of State and Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

An emergency declaration can change the legal and operational landscape in which governments, private organizations, and the public operate during an emergency. Emergency declarations, especially if they occur at multiple levels (federal, state, local), can confuse organizations and individuals. All state agencies need to understand the implications of operating under an emergency declaration, especially those that are not directly involved in response activities such as state procurement offices. States must also understand the legal and operational effects of a federal emergency declaration. Federal declarations may affect compliance with federal legal and programmatic requirements. Federal declarations generally do not alter state legislative and regulatory requirements; however, state law will be preempted to the extent it conflicts with federal law. State declarations are necessary to modify states legal requirements.

During H1N1, some states declared emergencies, while neighboring states did not. For some states, the relatively mild severity of the H1N1 influenza pandemic did not rise to the level needed to trigger the statutory requirements for an emergency declaration, or made states conclude that existing authorities were sufficient to handle the response. Differences in states’ decisions to declare an emergency, as well as the federal declaration and World Health Organization pandemic levels, proved confusing for healthcare providers, the private sector, and the public. State agencies were required to clearly communicate the impact of various declarations had in responding to H1N1.​

I know you dont really give a shit about the actual laws and legal basis for the POTUS executive powers, but there it is anyway.

I will ask AGAIN where the constitution mentions emergency powers.
See, the constitution gives the fed gov a certain list of powers. Going beyond that is called "unconstitutional"
So, try again.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Can you point me to "emergency powers" in the constitution?

It is in the article 2 section 1 clause 1 under war powers and executive powers.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."​

Section 2 clause 1:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; "​

Section 3 clause 5

(The president must) "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." ​

So, the President must faithfully execute the laws passed by Congress, and in regard to what specific military and peace time power the President has, there is also this:

Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

As with the states, federal law imbues designated federal officials with broad powers that allow them to respond to and assist states and localities in responding to emergencies even without a federal emergency declaration. Thus, the secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) has broad authority under Sections 301 and 311 of the Public Health Service Act to provide assistance to states and localities.2 Federal law also provides the president and other federal officials with authority to declare emergencies under specified conditions. Some of these federal authorities relevant to the public health context include:​

• President—Stafford Act and the National Emergencies Act.
  • HHS Secretary—Public Health Service Act Section 319 and Social Security Act Section 1135.

Actions and Authorities Triggered by Federal Emergency Declarations ​

​

Federal emergency declarations activate legal and programmatic responses from federal agencies including:​

• Activating federal assistance to states in the form of financial, personnel, services, logistical, and technical assistance.
  • Triggering emergency provisions in other laws including Social Security Act Section 1135 waivers and statutory immunities and liability protections, such as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).
  • Easing regulatory requirements on individuals, organizations, and state and local governments.
  • Activating the National Response Framework, National Incident Management System, and other emergency response protocols and systems.

Implications of State and Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

An emergency declaration can change the legal and operational landscape in which governments, private organizations, and the public operate during an emergency. Emergency declarations, especially if they occur at multiple levels (federal, state, local), can confuse organizations and individuals. All state agencies need to understand the implications of operating under an emergency declaration, especially those that are not directly involved in response activities such as state procurement offices. States must also understand the legal and operational effects of a federal emergency declaration. Federal declarations may affect compliance with federal legal and programmatic requirements. Federal declarations generally do not alter state legislative and regulatory requirements; however, state law will be preempted to the extent it conflicts with federal law. State declarations are necessary to modify states legal requirements.​

​

During H1N1, some states declared emergencies, while neighboring states did not. For some states, the relatively mild severity of the H1N1 influenza pandemic did not rise to the level needed to trigger the statutory requirements for an emergency declaration, or made states conclude that existing authorities were sufficient to handle the response. Differences in states’ decisions to declare an emergency, as well as the federal declaration and World Health Organization pandemic levels, proved confusing for healthcare providers, the private sector, and the public. State agencies were required to clearly communicate the impact of various declarations had in responding to H1N1.​

I know you dont really give a shit about the actual laws and legal basis for the POTUS executive powers, but there it is anyway.

I will ask AGAIN where the constitution mentions emergency powers.
See, the constitution gives the fed gov a certain list of powers. Going beyond that is called "unconstitutional"
So, try again.

I told you, doofus.

You cant figger it out?

I dont have time to spoon feed simpletons.

Sorry, but not sorry.

 

[TNHarley]

Can you point me to "emergency powers" in the constitution?

It is in the article 2 section 1 clause 1 under war powers and executive powers.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."​

Section 2 clause 1:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; "​

Section 3 clause 5

(The president must) "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." ​

So, the President must faithfully execute the laws passed by Congress, and in regard to what specific military and peace time power the President has, there is also this:

Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

As with the states, federal law imbues designated federal officials with broad powers that allow them to respond to and assist states and localities in responding to emergencies even without a federal emergency declaration. Thus, the secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) has broad authority under Sections 301 and 311 of the Public Health Service Act to provide assistance to states and localities.2 Federal law also provides the president and other federal officials with authority to declare emergencies under specified conditions. Some of these federal authorities relevant to the public health context include:​

• President—Stafford Act and the National Emergencies Act.
  • HHS Secretary—Public Health Service Act Section 319 and Social Security Act Section 1135.

Actions and Authorities Triggered by Federal Emergency Declarations ​

​

Federal emergency declarations activate legal and programmatic responses from federal agencies including:​

• Activating federal assistance to states in the form of financial, personnel, services, logistical, and technical assistance.
  • Triggering emergency provisions in other laws including Social Security Act Section 1135 waivers and statutory immunities and liability protections, such as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).
  • Easing regulatory requirements on individuals, organizations, and state and local governments.
  • Activating the National Response Framework, National Incident Management System, and other emergency response protocols and systems.

Implications of State and Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

An emergency declaration can change the legal and operational landscape in which governments, private organizations, and the public operate during an emergency. Emergency declarations, especially if they occur at multiple levels (federal, state, local), can confuse organizations and individuals. All state agencies need to understand the implications of operating under an emergency declaration, especially those that are not directly involved in response activities such as state procurement offices. States must also understand the legal and operational effects of a federal emergency declaration. Federal declarations may affect compliance with federal legal and programmatic requirements. Federal declarations generally do not alter state legislative and regulatory requirements; however, state law will be preempted to the extent it conflicts with federal law. State declarations are necessary to modify states legal requirements.​

​

During H1N1, some states declared emergencies, while neighboring states did not. For some states, the relatively mild severity of the H1N1 influenza pandemic did not rise to the level needed to trigger the statutory requirements for an emergency declaration, or made states conclude that existing authorities were sufficient to handle the response. Differences in states’ decisions to declare an emergency, as well as the federal declaration and World Health Organization pandemic levels, proved confusing for healthcare providers, the private sector, and the public. State agencies were required to clearly communicate the impact of various declarations had in responding to H1N1.​

I know you dont really give a shit about the actual laws and legal basis for the POTUS executive powers, but there it is anyway.

I will ask AGAIN where the constitution mentions emergency powers.
See, the constitution gives the fed gov a certain list of powers. Going beyond that is called "unconstitutional"
So, try again.

I told you, doofus.

You cant figger it out?

I dont have time to spoon feed simpletons.

Sorry, but not sorry.

Congress only has the power to write legislation within its enumerated powers.
I'm sorry if you dont understand the constitution. Maybe stop listening to the power grabbers telling you that can have that power and READ the document.
You know, where you take written words and group them into sentences? Take Tylenol for any headaches. Midol for any cramps.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Congress only has the power to write legislation within its enumerated powers.
I'm sorry if you dont understand the constitution. Maybe stop listening to the power grabbers telling you that can have that power and READ the document.
You know, where you take written words and group them into sentences? Take Tylenol for any headaches. Midol for any cramps.

The military power of the head of state in the English Common Law and language has always included the concept of emergency powers.

Are you claiming that military command and complete 100% Executive authority does not include emergency powers?

If so then this conversation is over because you are a stupid fuck if so, and at the age of 62, I dont have enough time left in life to argue with idiots..

 

[Andylusion]

I find it interesting that a lot of conservatives on here were bitching that Obama was becoming a dictator and doing things that he wasn't authorized to do.

Trump on the other hand, is seeing how far he can push the envelope. If Obama had done even a third of what Trump has done so far, he would have been ran out of town on a rail.

You guys bitched incessantly about how Obama was lining the pockets of his friends with Solyndra (he wasn't by the way), yet you don't say anything when Trump has it written into the bill that specialty farmers (those who grow grapes for wine) will be allowed to get money as well. Trump stands to collect 2.2 million from this bill.

I did complain about Obama's EOs, sure and I have complained recently about Trumps gathering authority that most people are unaware of.

I have not seen that Trump has acted any differently than Obama.

In fact, I've seen people on your side, actually demanding that Trump use executive orders.

What is ridiculous is that when Obama was pushing the envelope, no one on the left complained. When Trump hasn't done anything more than Obama, they claim it's pushing the envelope.

It's amazing how the standard changes to fit who is in office.

All that said... I personally am against all subsidies, all to them, and against executive orders. I was against it under Obama, and now I'm against it under Trump.

 

[jc456]

Earlier today, Our Beloved President tweeted: "For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect....It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons."

I believe that DJT is the best President we have had in a long time, but in this he is wrong. It is entirely up to the Governors; the President can only recommend, make suggestions, remove federal constraints.

Sorry. He's my President but in this case he is wrong.

Not that it means anything. He can't override a Governor's decision anyway. Any attempt to do so would be void.

Parenthetically, my Governor, Thomas Wolf of Pennsylvania, apparently thinks he lives in New Jersey, and has clamped down accordingly. But he's a Democrat, so what should one expect?

nope, he can mandate opening up the country. they must comply.

 

[jc456]

Can you point me to "emergency powers" in the constitution?

It is in the article 2 section 1 clause 1 under war powers and executive powers.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."​

Section 2 clause 1:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; "​

Section 3 clause 5

(The president must) "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." ​

So, the President must faithfully execute the laws passed by Congress, and in regard to what specific military and peace time power the President has, there is also this:

Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

As with the states, federal law imbues designated federal officials with broad powers that allow them to respond to and assist states and localities in responding to emergencies even without a federal emergency declaration. Thus, the secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) has broad authority under Sections 301 and 311 of the Public Health Service Act to provide assistance to states and localities.2 Federal law also provides the president and other federal officials with authority to declare emergencies under specified conditions. Some of these federal authorities relevant to the public health context include:​

• President—Stafford Act and the National Emergencies Act.
  • HHS Secretary—Public Health Service Act Section 319 and Social Security Act Section 1135.

Actions and Authorities Triggered by Federal Emergency Declarations ​

​

Federal emergency declarations activate legal and programmatic responses from federal agencies including:​

• Activating federal assistance to states in the form of financial, personnel, services, logistical, and technical assistance.
  • Triggering emergency provisions in other laws including Social Security Act Section 1135 waivers and statutory immunities and liability protections, such as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).
  • Easing regulatory requirements on individuals, organizations, and state and local governments.
  • Activating the National Response Framework, National Incident Management System, and other emergency response protocols and systems.

Implications of State and Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

An emergency declaration can change the legal and operational landscape in which governments, private organizations, and the public operate during an emergency. Emergency declarations, especially if they occur at multiple levels (federal, state, local), can confuse organizations and individuals. All state agencies need to understand the implications of operating under an emergency declaration, especially those that are not directly involved in response activities such as state procurement offices. States must also understand the legal and operational effects of a federal emergency declaration. Federal declarations may affect compliance with federal legal and programmatic requirements. Federal declarations generally do not alter state legislative and regulatory requirements; however, state law will be preempted to the extent it conflicts with federal law. State declarations are necessary to modify states legal requirements.​

​

During H1N1, some states declared emergencies, while neighboring states did not. For some states, the relatively mild severity of the H1N1 influenza pandemic did not rise to the level needed to trigger the statutory requirements for an emergency declaration, or made states conclude that existing authorities were sufficient to handle the response. Differences in states’ decisions to declare an emergency, as well as the federal declaration and World Health Organization pandemic levels, proved confusing for healthcare providers, the private sector, and the public. State agencies were required to clearly communicate the impact of various declarations had in responding to H1N1.​

I know you dont really give a shit about the actual laws and legal basis for the POTUS executive powers, but there it is anyway.

I will ask AGAIN where the constitution mentions emergency powers.
See, the constitution gives the fed gov a certain list of powers. Going beyond that is called "unconstitutional"
So, try again.

I told you, doofus.

You cant figger it out?

I dont have time to spoon feed simpletons.

Sorry, but not sorry.

Congress only has the power to write legislation within its enumerated powers.
I'm sorry if you dont understand the constitution. Maybe stop listening to the power grabbers telling you that can have that power and READ the document.
You know, where you take written words and group them into sentences? Take Tylenol for any headaches. Midol for any cramps.

it has to be signed by the president.

 

[jc456]

I find it interesting that a lot of conservatives on here were bitching that Obama was becoming a dictator and doing things that he wasn't authorized to do.

Trump on the other hand, is seeing how far he can push the envelope. If Obama had done even a third of what Trump has done so far, he would have been ran out of town on a rail.

You guys bitched incessantly about how Obama was lining the pockets of his friends with Solyndra (he wasn't by the way), yet you don't say anything when Trump has it written into the bill that specialty farmers (those who grow grapes for wine) will be allowed to get money as well. Trump stands to collect 2.2 million from this bill.

I did complain about Obama's EOs, sure and I have complained recently about Trumps gathering authority that most people are unaware of.

I have not seen that Trump has acted any differently than Obama.

In fact, I've seen people on your side, actually demanding that Trump use executive orders.

What is ridiculous is that when Obama was pushing the envelope, no one on the left complained. When Trump hasn't done anything more than Obama, they claim it's pushing the envelope.

It's amazing how the standard changes to fit who is in office.

All that said... I personally am against all subsidies, all to them, and against executive orders. I was against it under Obama, and now I'm against it under Trump.

then the economy should be opened back up right?

 

[jc456]

Can you point me to "emergency powers" in the constitution?

It is in the article 2 section 1 clause 1 under war powers and executive powers.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."​

Section 2 clause 1:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; "​

Section 3 clause 5

(The president must) "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." ​

So, the President must faithfully execute the laws passed by Congress, and in regard to what specific military and peace time power the President has, there is also this:

Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

As with the states, federal law imbues designated federal officials with broad powers that allow them to respond to and assist states and localities in responding to emergencies even without a federal emergency declaration. Thus, the secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) has broad authority under Sections 301 and 311 of the Public Health Service Act to provide assistance to states and localities.2 Federal law also provides the president and other federal officials with authority to declare emergencies under specified conditions. Some of these federal authorities relevant to the public health context include:​

• President—Stafford Act and the National Emergencies Act.
  • HHS Secretary—Public Health Service Act Section 319 and Social Security Act Section 1135.

Actions and Authorities Triggered by Federal Emergency Declarations ​

​

Federal emergency declarations activate legal and programmatic responses from federal agencies including:​

• Activating federal assistance to states in the form of financial, personnel, services, logistical, and technical assistance.
  • Triggering emergency provisions in other laws including Social Security Act Section 1135 waivers and statutory immunities and liability protections, such as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).
  • Easing regulatory requirements on individuals, organizations, and state and local governments.
  • Activating the National Response Framework, National Incident Management System, and other emergency response protocols and systems.

Implications of State and Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

An emergency declaration can change the legal and operational landscape in which governments, private organizations, and the public operate during an emergency. Emergency declarations, especially if they occur at multiple levels (federal, state, local), can confuse organizations and individuals. All state agencies need to understand the implications of operating under an emergency declaration, especially those that are not directly involved in response activities such as state procurement offices. States must also understand the legal and operational effects of a federal emergency declaration. Federal declarations may affect compliance with federal legal and programmatic requirements. Federal declarations generally do not alter state legislative and regulatory requirements; however, state law will be preempted to the extent it conflicts with federal law. State declarations are necessary to modify states legal requirements.​

​

During H1N1, some states declared emergencies, while neighboring states did not. For some states, the relatively mild severity of the H1N1 influenza pandemic did not rise to the level needed to trigger the statutory requirements for an emergency declaration, or made states conclude that existing authorities were sufficient to handle the response. Differences in states’ decisions to declare an emergency, as well as the federal declaration and World Health Organization pandemic levels, proved confusing for healthcare providers, the private sector, and the public. State agencies were required to clearly communicate the impact of various declarations had in responding to H1N1.​

I know you dont really give a shit about the actual laws and legal basis for the POTUS executive powers, but there it is anyway.

I will ask AGAIN where the constitution mentions emergency powers.
See, the constitution gives the fed gov a certain list of powers. Going beyond that is called "unconstitutional"
So, try again.

nope, the president can actually mandate marshall law and have all governors abide. he does have that power.

 

[Indeependent]

So lets see. I have constitutional scholars on my side. Not to mention direct quotes from the 10th amendment.

You, have the "laugh" button.

Game. Set. Match. Thanks for playing.

Are you stating for the record that all Constitutional Scholars agree with you?
I'm not trying to be snarky as we have a multitude of media outlets with a plethora of dissenting Constitutional Scholars.

 

[Andylusion]

I find it interesting that a lot of conservatives on here were bitching that Obama was becoming a dictator and doing things that he wasn't authorized to do.

Trump on the other hand, is seeing how far he can push the envelope. If Obama had done even a third of what Trump has done so far, he would have been ran out of town on a rail.

You guys bitched incessantly about how Obama was lining the pockets of his friends with Solyndra (he wasn't by the way), yet you don't say anything when Trump has it written into the bill that specialty farmers (those who grow grapes for wine) will be allowed to get money as well. Trump stands to collect 2.2 million from this bill.

I did complain about Obama's EOs, sure and I have complained recently about Trumps gathering authority that most people are unaware of.

I have not seen that Trump has acted any differently than Obama.

In fact, I've seen people on your side, actually demanding that Trump use executive orders.

What is ridiculous is that when Obama was pushing the envelope, no one on the left complained. When Trump hasn't done anything more than Obama, they claim it's pushing the envelope.

It's amazing how the standard changes to fit who is in office.

All that said... I personally am against all subsidies, all to them, and against executive orders. I was against it under Obama, and now I'm against it under Trump.

then the economy should be opened back up right?

Sorry, but I'm not smart enough, or have all the data available, to make such a judgement.

At a glance, it appears that there is no logical reason to have the economy shut down. It does not appear as though any of our efforts have actually had a positive effect.

When I look around the world, I don't see that the lock downs have significantly reduced the spread, or that countries with more liberal policies, have had significantly higher infections and deaths.

But you need to remember, I'm operating on a tiny fraction of the knowledge out there. So I don't know.

 

[jc456]

I find it interesting that a lot of conservatives on here were bitching that Obama was becoming a dictator and doing things that he wasn't authorized to do.

Trump on the other hand, is seeing how far he can push the envelope. If Obama had done even a third of what Trump has done so far, he would have been ran out of town on a rail.

You guys bitched incessantly about how Obama was lining the pockets of his friends with Solyndra (he wasn't by the way), yet you don't say anything when Trump has it written into the bill that specialty farmers (those who grow grapes for wine) will be allowed to get money as well. Trump stands to collect 2.2 million from this bill.

I did complain about Obama's EOs, sure and I have complained recently about Trumps gathering authority that most people are unaware of.

I have not seen that Trump has acted any differently than Obama.

In fact, I've seen people on your side, actually demanding that Trump use executive orders.

What is ridiculous is that when Obama was pushing the envelope, no one on the left complained. When Trump hasn't done anything more than Obama, they claim it's pushing the envelope.

It's amazing how the standard changes to fit who is in office.

All that said... I personally am against all subsidies, all to them, and against executive orders. I was against it under Obama, and now I'm against it under Trump.

then the economy should be opened back up right?

Sorry, but I'm not smart enough, or have all the data available, to make such a judgement.

At a glance, it appears that there is no logical reason to have the economy shut down. It does not appear as though any of our efforts have actually had a positive effect.

When I look around the world, I don't see that the lock downs have significantly reduced the spread, or that countries with more liberal policies, have had significantly higher infections and deaths.

But you need to remember, I'm operating on a tiny fraction of the knowledge out there. So I don't know.

no more data then those who did this. They were wrong, the results say so. It's time to take nazism out of our country.

 

[TNHarley]

Congress only has the power to write legislation within its enumerated powers.
I'm sorry if you dont understand the constitution. Maybe stop listening to the power grabbers telling you that can have that power and READ the document.
You know, where you take written words and group them into sentences? Take Tylenol for any headaches. Midol for any cramps.

The military power of the head of state in the English Common Law and language has always included the concept of emergency powers.

Are you claiming that military command and complete 100% Executive authority does not include emergency powers?

If so then this conversation is over because you are a stupid fuck if so, and at the age of 62, I dont have enough time left in life to argue with idiots..

English common law we adhere to is outlined in the constitution. Enumerated powers isnt one of them.
Using your logic, the fed gov could do anything they want.
You want to trash me but you are 62 and cant even read yet.
Dumbfuck.

 

[TNHarley]

Can you point me to "emergency powers" in the constitution?

It is in the article 2 section 1 clause 1 under war powers and executive powers.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."​

Section 2 clause 1:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; "​

Section 3 clause 5

(The president must) "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." ​

So, the President must faithfully execute the laws passed by Congress, and in regard to what specific military and peace time power the President has, there is also this:

Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

As with the states, federal law imbues designated federal officials with broad powers that allow them to respond to and assist states and localities in responding to emergencies even without a federal emergency declaration. Thus, the secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) has broad authority under Sections 301 and 311 of the Public Health Service Act to provide assistance to states and localities.2 Federal law also provides the president and other federal officials with authority to declare emergencies under specified conditions. Some of these federal authorities relevant to the public health context include:​

• President—Stafford Act and the National Emergencies Act.
  • HHS Secretary—Public Health Service Act Section 319 and Social Security Act Section 1135.

Actions and Authorities Triggered by Federal Emergency Declarations ​

​

Federal emergency declarations activate legal and programmatic responses from federal agencies including:​

• Activating federal assistance to states in the form of financial, personnel, services, logistical, and technical assistance.
  • Triggering emergency provisions in other laws including Social Security Act Section 1135 waivers and statutory immunities and liability protections, such as the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act).
  • Easing regulatory requirements on individuals, organizations, and state and local governments.
  • Activating the National Response Framework, National Incident Management System, and other emergency response protocols and systems.

Implications of State and Federal Emergency Declarations and Authorities ​

​

An emergency declaration can change the legal and operational landscape in which governments, private organizations, and the public operate during an emergency. Emergency declarations, especially if they occur at multiple levels (federal, state, local), can confuse organizations and individuals. All state agencies need to understand the implications of operating under an emergency declaration, especially those that are not directly involved in response activities such as state procurement offices. States must also understand the legal and operational effects of a federal emergency declaration. Federal declarations may affect compliance with federal legal and programmatic requirements. Federal declarations generally do not alter state legislative and regulatory requirements; however, state law will be preempted to the extent it conflicts with federal law. State declarations are necessary to modify states legal requirements.​

​

During H1N1, some states declared emergencies, while neighboring states did not. For some states, the relatively mild severity of the H1N1 influenza pandemic did not rise to the level needed to trigger the statutory requirements for an emergency declaration, or made states conclude that existing authorities were sufficient to handle the response. Differences in states’ decisions to declare an emergency, as well as the federal declaration and World Health Organization pandemic levels, proved confusing for healthcare providers, the private sector, and the public. State agencies were required to clearly communicate the impact of various declarations had in responding to H1N1.​

I know you dont really give a shit about the actual laws and legal basis for the POTUS executive powers, but there it is anyway.

I will ask AGAIN where the constitution mentions emergency powers.
See, the constitution gives the fed gov a certain list of powers. Going beyond that is called "unconstitutional"
So, try again.

I told you, doofus.

You cant figger it out?

I dont have time to spoon feed simpletons.

Sorry, but not sorry.

Congress only has the power to write legislation within its enumerated powers.
I'm sorry if you dont understand the constitution. Maybe stop listening to the power grabbers telling you that can have that power and READ the document.
You know, where you take written words and group them into sentences? Take Tylenol for any headaches. Midol for any cramps.

it has to be signed by the president.

No, it has to be signed by 2/3 of the state's. Its called an amendment.