The Quandary Christians Put Gays In

[MathewSmith]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Homosexuality is not a mental perversion. It appears in ever race, colour and creed throughout history, and in animal world as well.

It's as natural for gays to be attracted to their same sex as it is for straights to be attracted to the opposite sex.

It is not in the animal kingdom. Some daffy homosexual conned someone into paying for a grant and he came back shouting he had proof animals can be homosexual, the problem is he had no proof, no video, nothing. You clowns confuse what they call alpha male with homosexuality. Before you shout, bitch and moan be prepared to provide video proof of animals of the same sex mating. Word of warning: it doesn't exist.

That's a bunch of horseshit. Circa 8-10% of the animal Kingdom exhibits same-Sex sex. There are literally hundreds of studies over this phenomenom, SassyLesbiAsswipe.


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[Statistikhengst]

why is it that qweers and liberscum always get their wants/wishes/desires fulfilled?

e.g.,

right here on USMB we lost the ability of a , function/icon, because it "OFFENDED" a few liberpukes, then came censorship, paintshishose displays the censorship all the time.

i despise censorship of any kind here on USMB.

That's not because of Libs. It's because Cons abused it. Get yer story straight, Cleetus.

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[bodecea]

I basically agree. But why isn't a civil contract enough.

You first.

It IS a civil contract.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Homosexuality is not a mental perversion. It appears in ever race, colour and creed throughout history, and in animal world as well.

It's as natural for gays to be attracted to their same sex as it is for straights to be attracted to the opposite sex.

It is not in the animal kingdom. Some daffy homosexual conned someone into paying for a grant and he came back shouting he had proof animals can be homosexual, the problem is he had no proof, no video, nothing. You clowns confuse what they call alpha male with homosexuality. Before you shout, bitch and moan be prepared to provide video proof of animals of the same sex mating. Word of warning: it doesn't exist.

I wonder if they understand that Males are not monogamous by nature? Marriage was an attempt to bring order to that.

If we are going to bring nature into this, realize that monogamy is so against nature, some male animals will kill the young of the female so she will go into heat faster so he can breed her again.

This is indeed a possibility.

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[bodecea]

I basically agree. But why isn't a civil contract enough.

You first.

So here I am, a Christian, telling my fellow Christians that the solution may be to start talking TO homosexuals instead of about them; to forge friendships like I have and gain a new perspective and try to see the world through their eyes.
I have and I got no regrets about it.

Here's the problem gays put Christians in: Individual Christans cannot petition to redact the Bible to current trends and fads. In fact, the reason the Bible exists is to remind Christians how current trends and fads of their relative time frame can drag them down to the pit instead of entering the gates of Heaven.

You might want to visit this thread. BTW "Saint", I knew I had you pegged.

Christians are supposed to extend compassion to homosexuals. But their theft of marriage is forbidden. Whatever they do is whatever they do. But they cannot tell the rest of the world that it must like it and revere it as a commonly-held social value. That's where the Bible draws a very clear and distinct line.

Attention Episcopalians Christian Sects of All Denominations Worldwide. Pay Heed. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

The Bible is mute on civil marriage.

You should do the same.

My point stands unrefuted.

Civil marriage is none of religion's business.

Marriage is Gods plan. Civil marriage is Caesar's plan. Render unto God the things that are Gods And unto Ceasar the things that are Caesars. Thus the controversy goes away. You could not stand that!

So...just get married in your god's house. Problem solved. No, wait....gays are getting married by god too. Oopsie, you aren't quite as exclusive as you thought.

 

[Pop23]

Homosexuality is not a mental perversion. It appears in ever race, colour and creed throughout history, and in animal world as well.

It's as natural for gays to be attracted to their same sex as it is for straights to be attracted to the opposite sex.

It is not in the animal kingdom. Some daffy homosexual conned someone into paying for a grant and he came back shouting he had proof animals can be homosexual, the problem is he had no proof, no video, nothing. You clowns confuse what they call alpha male with homosexuality. Before you shout, bitch and moan be prepared to provide video proof of animals of the same sex mating. Word of warning: it doesn't exist.

I wonder if they understand that Males are not monogamous by nature? Marriage was an attempt to bring order to that.

If we are going to bring nature into this, realize that monogamy is so against nature, some male animals will kill the young of the female so she will go into heat faster so he can breed her again.

This is indeed a possibility.

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When beer is left off the shopping list

But that's a different thread

 

[bodecea]

Gay marriage was never denied because it never was no matter how the left howls.

Of course that changes now because of 5 old men and women.

I just wonder where the gays will go to be victims now that their status has changed.

I am thinking they will be victims of churches to which they can't force themselves upon.

One thing we can be sure of is that they will find a way to stay the victim.

Treat them as equals, they are, and all that goes away eh?

I basically agree. But why isn't a civil contract enough.

You first.

You should do the same.

My point stands unrefuted.

Civil marriage is none of religion's business.

Marriage is Gods plan. Civil marriage is Caesar's plan. Render unto God the things that are Gods And unto Ceasar the things that are Caesars. Thus the controversy goes away. You could not stand that!

Why are so-called Christians pretending that the scriptures forbid same sex marriage?

I am not a so called Christian. I am a Catholic. So you will not hear me quoting scripture. I quote tradition, common sense and the natural law. All of those indicate that same sex marriage is like marrying a dead person. No procreation is possible. Lots of fun. Benefits for sure. But no creation.

It is only equal because they say it is equal. Like saying a pilot and a car driver are the same thing.

Ah..."some marriages are more equal than others", eh?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

[

I basically agree. But why isn't a civil contract enough. Live together. Love together. Benefit together. But leave marriage intact. Perhaps your friends don't push the political agenda...but the political left does...and it has little to do with concern for gays.

It's a civil right that was denied because a bunch of religious people who have always been the worst gay-bashers didn't want it. Now the christian right is acting like an oppressed victim, maybe if they had been a little less hateful and oppressive for the last two thousand years someone would give a shit.

I disagree. Everyone deserves happiness. But this created a legal paradox that can't be addressed easily

Marriage is now a right. Denying that right is discriminatory.

As previously defined, between a male and a female, not too closely related kept polygamy and many relationships traditionally considered incestuous out of government sanctioned marriage.

Now it would be arbitrary to deny several individuals from that dignity and happiness (polygamy) as well as banning to heterosexual same sex siblings, same sex homosexual siblings from marriage.

And if you can't come up with a reasoned legal argument against the above, you are then arbitrarily discriminating against opposite sex siblings.

Marriage excluded male/female siblings the right to keep bloodlines pure, when the couple is same sex, that argument is nonsense.

This will be a mess

Which is why the manner in which same sex marriage came about, by judicial fiat, is a mistake. In no way am I defending the Supreme Court's decision because, as you point out, now the states are disempowered to put any restrictions on marriage, no matter how ridiculous people make marriage. Polygamy? Marrying one's son to avoid an inheritance tax? Marrying a pet, a car, or even a battery operated vibrator? And this is just the beginning.

The decision should have been made by the states, but on a personal level, I'm asking what moral right that happily married heterosexual couples have to say, "Bliss for me, but not for thee." As you see from the OP, I'm approaching this from a very personal perspective that involves close friends of my family. I cannot justify denying them the happiness I've found in being married to my wife in the eyes of society.

Because it further normalizes the abnormal. The abnormal will never be normal and should not be considered so.

I'm very abnormal myself and raise quite a few eyebrows when I reveal that my family are practicing naturists and we live in a clothing optional home. So perhaps I too, though not being gay, am sympathetic being on the receiving end of your comments that irrationally pose abnormal as wrong; a fear of those who are different that represents the most base of human emotions.

Tolerance is not about being forced to accept something you don't agree with, it's about tolerating it and expecting the same in return. The reason that the SSM debate has raged on and on is because conservatives, including myself, have been unwilling to extend that simple courtesy.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

And for the record, Episcopalians have no affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention, who consists of all Protestant Churches. Episcopalians and their churches are an arm of the Anglican denomination.

True enough. But the Episcopalians aren't the first denomination to have made this transition. Ask the Methodists which allow for LGBT clergy. Nor will they be the last. I suspect the Evangelical Lutherans will be next.

What you'll never see is the Catholic Church compromising on this issue. Protestant Churches, being severed from the vine that is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church established by Christ himself, and is today represented by Catholic and Orthodox rites, lack the strength to maintain opposition against the popular tide of changing public opinion. This was made abundantly clear when Protestants dropped their opposition to birth control beginning with the Anglican Conference of 1930. Anglicans continue to lead the way in compromising with worldly values and because the See of Canterbury truly is the Protestant See, I anticipate the Protestant denominations will all follow suit.

But the Catholic Church will not, even if Jesus should tarry another 2000 years.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Not a religious discussion, a discussion on cultural perspectives.

I do mix it up in our discussions about gay culture and to me it's largely sport, but there's another part of me that attempts to see these social issues through the eyes of gay people. Two of the closest friends of my family happen to be gay, a woman I've known since I was in Junior High who was a teacher of mine and her partner. They are getting married this month and we will be enthusiastic attenders. My trust in them is implicit to the point they often babysit our 4 kids and are called Aunt by them. Yes they are that close.

So their up and coming wedding has gotten me thinking about the issue of gay marriage in the Christian church. They are Christians and church goers, attending a Reconciling congregation, the kind more accepting of gays and gay marriage.

I'm extremely happy for them, so is my wife and my in laws who are somewhat to very progressive. It occurs to me to wonder why happily married Christians would deny nuptial bliss to any couple that love each other. Here's the issue gays are put in by Christians. They're told that the lifestyle is sinful and that they should either abstain from sex altogether or get married to a person of the opposite sex. Many men have done that, living a lie until the lie gets too great and they revert back to their sexual set point, often cheating on their wives in secretive dalliances or outright abandoning their family.

Exhibit A:

Option B is not any better. St. Paul himself said that it is better for a man to marry than to burn with desire. Since Exodus International has demonstrated to us that it's not possible to "pray the gay away" or use therapy to change one's sexual orientation, what choice do they have? Let's review the choices again:

1. Marry a person of the opposite sex and live a lie with disastrous results that hurt an innocent wife and children.

2. Burn with sexual desire until the desire becomes to great and men hook up with other men, often multiple partners increasing the chances for STD's and drug abuse.

3. Same sex marriage; marrying a person they are attracted to and can love for the rest of their lives in a committed manner.

I'm going to be honest, though I don't like the Supreme Court circumventing the constitutional and republican form of government that clearly puts this issue to the states to decide, I'm also not of the opinion that our civilization is imperiled because people who love each other are getting married. I'm just not.

So here I am, a Christian, telling my fellow Christians that the solution may be to start talking TO homosexuals instead of about them; to forge friendships like I have and gain a new perspective and try to see the world through their eyes.

I have and I got no regrets about it.

I am confused by your OP title.

Are you saying that a person cannot be both Christian and gay?

Actually I made the case for the exact opposite....or did you miss where I said these women who are marrying are both committed Christians?

Take your Lefterizer filter off and read it again.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Not a religious discussion, a discussion on cultural perspectives.

I do mix it up in our discussions about gay culture and to me it's largely sport, but there's another part of me that attempts to see these social issues through the eyes of gay people. Two of the closest friends of my family happen to be gay, a woman I've known since I was in Junior High who was a teacher of mine and her partner. They are getting married this month and we will be enthusiastic attenders. My trust in them is implicit to the point they often babysit our 4 kids and are called Aunt by them. Yes they are that close.

So their up and coming wedding has gotten me thinking about the issue of gay marriage in the Christian church. They are Christians and church goers, attending a Reconciling congregation, the kind more accepting of gays and gay marriage.

I'm extremely happy for them, so is my wife and my in laws who are somewhat to very progressive. It occurs to me to wonder why happily married Christians would deny nuptial bliss to any couple that love each other. Here's the issue gays are put in by Christians. They're told that the lifestyle is sinful and that they should either abstain from sex altogether or get married to a person of the opposite sex. Many men have done that, living a lie until the lie gets too great and they revert back to their sexual set point, often cheating on their wives in secretive dalliances or outright abandoning their family.

Exhibit A:

Option B is not any better. St. Paul himself said that it is better for a man to marry than to burn with desire. Since Exodus International has demonstrated to us that it's not possible to "pray the gay away" or use therapy to change one's sexual orientation, what choice do they have? Let's review the choices again:

1. Marry a person of the opposite sex and live a lie with disastrous results that hurt an innocent wife and children.

2. Burn with sexual desire until the desire becomes to great and men hook up with other men, often multiple partners increasing the chances for STD's and drug abuse.

3. Same sex marriage; marrying a person they are attracted to and can love for the rest of their lives in a committed manner.

I'm going to be honest, though I don't like the Supreme Court circumventing the constitutional and republican form of government that clearly puts this issue to the states to decide, I'm also not of the opinion that our civilization is imperiled because people who love each other are getting married. I'm just not.

So here I am, a Christian, telling my fellow Christians that the solution may be to start talking TO homosexuals instead of about them; to forge friendships like I have and gain a new perspective and try to see the world through their eyes.

I have and I got no regrets about it.

Well this perspective enables you to vote with a clear conscience for Dims, but what about abortion?

Do tell, how do you live with yourself as a Catholic knowing that you are voting for genocide?

Then again, Catholics in Nazi Germany seemed to have no problem supporting their genocide either.

Supporting my friends who are getting married makes me a Democrat voter who supports abortion and genocide like the Nazis??

You just took stupid and rode off into the sunset with it.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Christians did not put homosexuals in a quandry in this context.

Gays put themselves there.

Or aberrations of Nature put them there.

Whatever.

Why the hell should the 97% of the population that identifies as Straight have to wear a metaphorical hair shirt about the discomfort of the 3% ?

Enough of this touchy-feely horseshit already.

A small percentage of people are also disabled to the point of being in a wheelchair. Why should we build elevators, ramps, and accessible facilities? Fuck 'em, right?

The character, decency, and charity of the majority is best evaluated by how it treats the minority. And all gays ask is for the same rights we have. I for one can no longer say no.

 

[bodecea]

What I know is that the definition of one of our most basic institutions was changed to accommodate the abnormal practices of a few. Not a good decision.

I wonder why you get so concerned about the sex habits of a few and not the sex habits of the many.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Homosexuality is not a mental perversion. It appears in ever race, colour and creed throughout history, and in animal world as well.

It's as natural for gays to be attracted to their same sex as it is for straights to be attracted to the opposite sex.

It is not in the animal kingdom. Some daffy homosexual conned someone into paying for a grant and he came back shouting he had proof animals can be homosexual, the problem is he had no proof, no video, nothing. You clowns confuse what they call alpha male with homosexuality. Before you shout, bitch and moan be prepared to provide video proof of animals of the same sex mating. Word of warning: it doesn't exist.

That's a bunch of horseshit. Circa 8-10% of the animal Kingdom exhibits same-Sex sex. There are literally hundreds of studies over this phenomenom, SassyLesbiAsswipe.


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I was just laughing at how stupid you look hurling insults at Sassy from behind a silly clown face.

Go ahead, do it again. You're bringing an element of humor to this thread that's much in need.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

The Bible condemns rampant, promiscuous, pagan homosexual orgies, yes. I don't believe it condemns a loving couple living in a committed, monogamous, relationship. In these women who are domestic partners getting ready to marry this month, I see touches of grace, evidence of God's love and presence. I don't think God condemns what they are doing in the least. We should all get to know people like this to get a better perspective on where God's heart is....

Which should be what's most important to us.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

The Bible condemns rampant, promiscuous, pagan homosexual orgies, yes. I don't believe it condemns a loving couple living in a committed, monogamous, relationship. In these women who are domestic partners getting ready to marry this month, I see touches of grace, evidence of God's love and presence. I don't think God condemns what they are doing in the least. We should all get to know people like this to get a better perspective on where God's heart is....

Which should be what's most important to us.

The bible condemns it in several versus. That's the point, a church can't vote on God's laws. You're either all in or you're out, there is no in between. Homosexuals are welcome in our Church as everyone is but there won't be any SSM or blessing of a same sex union. It's not happening

 

[Statistikhengst]

Homosexuality is not a mental perversion. It appears in ever race, colour and creed throughout history, and in animal world as well.

It's as natural for gays to be attracted to their same sex as it is for straights to be attracted to the opposite sex.

It is not in the animal kingdom. Some daffy homosexual conned someone into paying for a grant and he came back shouting he had proof animals can be homosexual, the problem is he had no proof, no video, nothing. You clowns confuse what they call alpha male with homosexuality. Before you shout, bitch and moan be prepared to provide video proof of animals of the same sex mating. Word of warning: it doesn't exist.

That's a bunch of horseshit. Circa 8-10% of the animal Kingdom exhibits same-Sex sex. There are literally hundreds of studies over this phenomenom, SassyLesbiAsswipe.


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I was just laughing at how stupid you look hurling insults at Sassy from behind a silly clown face.

Go ahead, do it again. You're bringing an element of humor to this thread that's much in need.

Nice show of "christian" hubris. Thanks for sharing. It confirms what I've long suspected about "Christians".



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