The Queers are at it again!!!!!!!!

[Annie]

agreed, but that doesn't mean the original rights aren't flawed and could be altered to include them

which original rights and which alterations?

 

[MtnBiker]

If they're flawed, they're flawed for everyone. I would really hate to see things altered to appease those with abnormal perversions, it just makes no sense to me at all.

Blind Justice anyone!?

 

[Annie]

Blind Justice anyone!?

I have a question. What are normal perversions?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

They lived in the times they lived in. Problem with today, we are trying to give rights today, based on what happend 2k or 200 or 100 or 50 or 20 years ago. Everyone should get over it and deal with now.

Ignoring the past makes for a dangerous future. I'm not saying our "unsaid" social rules are wrong or right, but we can understand how they came about and it they make sense. And it's not as if everything is gravy today, women, homosexuals and minorities still don't have the advantages that a straight white male has, that is FACT. - coming from a straight white male.

 

[MtnBiker]

Preparation and motive are absoultely part of a crime. Plus you can goto prison just for hiring a hitman without him killing anyone.

The crime commited is making an illegal contract, not the motivation of killing someone.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

which original rights and which alterations?

The amendment to the United States Constitution which would define marriage in the United States as a union of one man and one woman. Changed to allow same sex couples.

 

[MtnBiker]

I have a question. What are normal perversions?

Ah ha, I get it. Abnormal perversions; redundant right? Sort of like hate crime.

 

[Annie]

Ignoring the past makes for a dangerous future. I'm not saying our "unsaid" social rules are wrong or right, but we can understand how they came about and it they make sense. And it's not as if everything is gravy today, women, homosexuals and minorities still don't have the advantages that a straight white male has, that is FACT. - coming from a straight white male.

Having a bit of history background let me say, we cannot make today ok, by rectifying yesterday. We cannot rectify yesterday. You cannot undo the things you said to your family members in anger, anymore than the great grandchildren of the plantation owners can make right the sins of their greatgrandparents, that were not considered sins at the time.

We cannot undo the beheadings of the French Revolution or the fact that there were debtor prisons. That women in the colonies, later US, were not given the vote til 1920. Can't be done.

Neither can the discrepencies of pay between women and men, in the past. Today however, I can and would take such a case to court. Deal with the now.

YOU as a young white male, owe me no debt, unless you trample on my rights now.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

The crime commited is making an illegal contract, not the motivation of killing someone.

In that instance sure, but for usual criminal trial its important to prove (1) motive, (2) opportunity, (3) intent, (4) preparation, (5) plan, (6) knowledge, (7) identity, (8) absence of mistake of fact or accident.

 

[Annie]

Ah ha, I get it. Abnormal perversions; redundant right? Sort of like hate crime.

Yep.

 

[Annie]

The amendment to the United States Constitution which would define marriage in the United States as a union of one man and one woman. Changed to allow same sex couples.

Somehow that amendment got by me...

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Having a bit of history background let me say, we cannot make today ok, by rectifying yesterday. We cannot rectify yesterday. You cannot undo the things you said to your family members in anger, anymore than the great grandchildren of the plantation owners can make right the sins of their greatgrandparents, that were not considered sins at the time.

Neither can the discrepencies of pay between women and men, in the past. Today however, I can and would take such a case to court. Deal with the now.

YOU as a young white male, owe me no debt, unless you trample on my rights now.

True, however much of our establishments in education, philosophy and goverment are rooted in such times of great disparity. This is why we still have problems today, it's a cycle until society as a whole changes the views of those three establishments of the past.

 

[Annie]

Ignoring the past makes for a dangerous future. I'm not saying our "unsaid" social rules are wrong or right, but we can understand how they came about and it they make sense. And it's not as if everything is gravy today, women, homosexuals and minorities still don't have the advantages that a straight white male has, that is FACT. - coming from a straight white male.

Really? I think there are some areas where those minorites have supra rights, and others where you are correct. As I said, coming from a multi-minority persona.

 

[MtnBiker]

In that instance sure, but for usual criminal trial its important to prove (1) motive, (2) opportunity, (3) intent, (4) preparation, (5) plan, (6) knowledge, (7) identity, (8) absence of mistake of fact or accident.

That would be to prove that someone on trial did commit the crime. None of which would be a crime until the crime itself is committed.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Really? I think there are some areas where those minorites have supra rights, and others where you are correct. As I said, coming from a multi-minority persona.

I agree we sometimes tend to overcompensate and such social organizations on the radical side do try to take advantage.

 

[Annie]

True, however much of our establishments in education, philosophy and goverment are rooted in such times of great disparity. This is why we still have problems today, it's a cycle until society as a whole changes the views of those three establishments of the past.

You do know what you a spouting now is bs? Women graduate from college well ahead of all males. Educational opportunities have been open to minorities for years, while the window for white males close in better universities, regardless of scores and legacies. Now that's not standing up for legacies, I don't. Just saying that opportunities for white males, even with those kinds of favors have been closing at a faster than fair rate. YOU are in the victim stage, just your argument is for the wrong victimhood.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

You do know what you a spouting now is bs? Women graduate from college well ahead of all males. Educational opportunities have been open to minorities for years, while the window for white males close in better universities, regardless of scores and legacies. Now that's not standing up for legacies, I don't. Just saying that opportunities for white males, even with those kinds of favors have been closing at a faster than fair rate. YOU are in the victim stage, just your argument is for the wrong victimhood.

I am not doubting the capability for women getting into college... but when they get out, look at the salary gaps.

Anyway, I'm saying our nations education, philosophy and governmental ideals are rooted in times of great disparity in rights and treatment of such social groups and it's still apparent today.

Saying I am a victim is hilarious, I've had every advantage in the world coming from a middleclass straight white family background.

 

[Annie]

I am not doubting the capability for women getting into college... but when they get out, look at the salary gaps.

Anyway, I'm saying our nations education, philosophy and governmental ideals are rooted in times of great disparity in rights and treatment of such social groups and it's still apparent today.

Saying I am a victim is hilarious, I've had every advantage in the world coming from a middleclass straight white family background.

Actually women are doing better and better. So are blacks and hispanics, with the caveat that they get the education. The choice of too many hispanics is that hard work rather than education is the key. For too many blacks, it's the quick buck and victimhood problems.

When education is achieved, they outperform their white 'equals.' White males, regardless of socioeconomic status have been losing out on education, salary, and opportunities for at least the last 20 years. That's being documented more and more. I'm not a 'pro white male' person, just not for anyone being left behind-through no fault of their own.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Actually women are doing better and better. So are blacks and hispanics, with the caveat that they get the education. The choice of too many hispanics is that hard work rather than education is the key. For too many blacks, it's the quick buck and victimhood problems.

When education is achieved, they outperform their white 'equals.' White males, regardless of socioeconomic status have been losing out on education, salary, and opportunities for at least the last 20 years. That's being documented more and more. I'm not a 'pro white male' person, just not for anyone being left behind-through no fault of their own.

I agree better and better and the whites are losing out more because things are equalizing, not a bad thing. But to give the notion that equality has been achived along the races, sexes and orientations is delusional.

 

[manu1959]

I agree, but also white males don't have a 2000 year history of being abused and oppressed.

ah the dirty hands argument to justify opreesing them now