The "RINO" Thread

[Paulie]

Most moderates describe themselves as fiscally conservative and socially moderate to liberal.

Interestingly enough, libertarians are closer to that than anyone else.

If the GOP opened its platform up to libertarian principles they could win elections.

People are tired of the authoritarianism and the fiscal recklessness. That's where libertarianism comes into play.

I'm also tired of all the conservative social issues. I'm tired of the drug war, I'm tired of hearing about abortion. I'm tired of attempts to legislation morality. I'm tired of the creationist idiocies of the Christian fundamentalists.

Seriously. It's getting old. I swear the GOP purposely loses elections because they HAVE to realize at this point that they're not going to get the indies by clinging to social issues.

 

[Old Rocks]

I like Missourian's statement very much.

The zero-sum no-compromise approach by many of the ultra right is simply unacceptable.

Yup.

And here's another thought the hardliners clearly haven't considered. Steal a strategy that has worked so well for the Democrats, incrementalism:

Take Missourian's approach and get more people elected. Use that bully pulpit to prove yourselves to the electorate. Then, as they come to realize that you seem to have their best interests at heart, they may be more open to ideas that they might otherwise be.

Then you have earned their trust and their votes without holding our legislative process hostage. You haven't held most of the country hostage with this simplistic, neanderthal "my way or the highway" approach.

But again, this would require marginalizing the crazies. I don't see that on the horizon.

Maybe start by turning off the radio. Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin want to keep the hardliners angry and absolutist for the sake of ratings. They do not have your best interests at heart.

.

Not sure if it was your intention (jk).......but I think you spoke the truth. When I have listened to the plans and policies as put forth by the Republcian party over the last several years, it seemed that the policies were intended to offer the ultra wealthy the greatest benefits while doing very little for me. People like me should logically be supporting the Repubs. Over 100k in income, multiple properties, college educated, long time married, kids, you know, what used to be the back bone of our country.

But todays ruling Repubs only seem to want to help the ultra rich, seems to me. And that's a problem if you can't get people like me to look at he Repub party. Hell, I was a registered Repub. But only to vote for the first version of John McCain. I used to really like him. Before he went old man crazy.

Repubs actually had another candidate I liked. The Gov from out west who was ambassador to China. Spoke Chinese. He got run out of Rethug town on a rail. Can't remember his name.

Jon Huntsmen. A very successful governor as well. If the GOP were to come back to sanity, an excellent choice in 2016. Not a chance of that, considering what I am seeing with these people.

 

[PratchettFan]

I was a huge fan of Rick Perry and hope he throws his hat in the ring for the 2016 election.

Slick Rick needs to be prepared next time.
He would have done no better than Romney.
I have no problems with him on most issues but can HE compromise?

I don't think he would have done nearly as well. If he runs next time around, I think that would cinch a democratic win.

 

[Paulie]

They can dump the social issues and still get the social cons because at the end of the day it'll still be better than a democrat.

 

[Old Rocks]

Having been part of goal line stances where it was first and goal from the one I never, ever give up.
At age 58, over 35 years after I faced first and goal at the one.
NEVER, EVER GIVE UP.

I can always tell when you are losing an argument is when you shoe-horn some lame sports analogy in.

Okay, let's try again.

There are people out there that ONLY vote GOP because of social issues. They don't care about the capital gains tax or the upper income tax, or Free Trade or Frank-Dodd because those issues either don't effect them or they aren't smart enough to realize what a negative effect these issues have on their lives.

Seriously, I've known union guys who voted REpublican not understanding why they are now in a "right to work" shop.

If the GOP openly abandoned the social issues instead of just pretending to care about them during elections and then ignoring them the rest of the time (which is, by the way, pretty much what they do), a lot of these folks might stop thinking about them and actuallly look at what the economic costs to them are of these positions.

You know, for the 90% of us who aren't business owners, and don't think they walk on water.

And this is where the GOP is in a trick bag. They can't win with these people and they can't win without them.

And there are Democrats out there that ONLY vote Democrat because of social issues.
So what else is new?
Life is like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears and score your points when you get the opportunity.
We are now with our backs to the end zone in this country. It is 1st and goal against us at the one.
What do we do? Lay down like we have and allow the tax and spend fools that can not balance a check book just walk on in, raise taxes again and then proceed to raise spending the same amount as we always have because of fear?
NO, we stand up and fight them off, cut the massive waste in the budget and take possession of the ball after their 4 tries at fucking us once again.

Good lord, Gadawg, consider what the GOP has shown us since 1980. How is spend and borrow better than tax and spend? At least the latter does not drive up the debt.

If the GOP wants to run as fiscal conservatives, they have to show us that in reality. Two wars and a reduction in taxes is not fiscal conservatism. Continued spending on the military at a rate above that of the next 14 nations is not fiscal conservatism. It is exactly what Eisenhower warned us about.

What we have seen in the last 30 years from the GOP is even more profligate spending than the Dems. Spending in times of peace and good economics. There is no reason at present for anyone that is fiscally conservative to vote for the GOP.

 

[Si modo]

Interestingly enough, libertarians are closer to that than anyone else.

If the GOP opened its platform up to libertarian principles they could win elections.

People are tired of the authoritarianism and the fiscal recklessness. That's where libertarianism comes into play.

I'm also tired of all the conservative social issues. I'm tired of the drug war, I'm tired of hearing about abortion. I'm tired of attempts to legislation morality. I'm tired of the creationist idiocies of the Christian fundamentalists.

Seriously. It's getting old. I swear the GOP purposely loses elections because they HAVE to realize at this point that they're not going to get the indies by clinging to social issues.

Send those fucking Blue Dog Dems back to the authoritarian party where they belong.

 

[Old Rocks]

Most moderates describe themselves as fiscally conservative and socially moderate to liberal.

Interestingly enough, libertarians are closer to that than anyone else.

If the GOP opened its platform up to libertarian principles they could win elections.

People are tired of the authoritarianism and the fiscal recklessness. That's where libertarianism comes into play.

I'm also tired of all the conservative social issues. I'm tired of the drug war, I'm tired of hearing about abortion. I'm tired of attempts to legislation morality. I'm tired of the creationist idiocies of the Christian fundamentalists.

Then you had better address them in the Republican Party. Otherwise, we liberals are going to seriously kick some butt in 2014.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm also tired of all the conservative social issues. I'm tired of the drug war, I'm tired of hearing about abortion. I'm tired of attempts to legislation morality. I'm tired of the creationist idiocies of the Christian fundamentalists.

Seriously. It's getting old. I swear the GOP purposely loses elections because they HAVE to realize at this point that they're not going to get the indies by clinging to social issues.

Send those fucking Blue Dog Dems back to the authoritarian party where they belong.

You have them, you keep them. Kind of like bedbugs.

You have about 18 months to do something. Then the elections of 2014 are upon us, and the present complexion of the GOP is not a winning one.

 

[Gadawg73]

Yup.

And here's another thought the hardliners clearly haven't considered. Steal a strategy that has worked so well for the Democrats, incrementalism:

Take Missourian's approach and get more people elected. Use that bully pulpit to prove yourselves to the electorate. Then, as they come to realize that you seem to have their best interests at heart, they may be more open to ideas that they might otherwise be.

Then you have earned their trust and their votes without holding our legislative process hostage. You haven't held most of the country hostage with this simplistic, neanderthal "my way or the highway" approach.

But again, this would require marginalizing the crazies. I don't see that on the horizon.

Maybe start by turning off the radio. Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin want to keep the hardliners angry and absolutist for the sake of ratings. They do not have your best interests at heart.

.

Not sure if it was your intention (jk).......but I think you spoke the truth. When I have listened to the plans and policies as put forth by the Republcian party over the last several years, it seemed that the policies were intended to offer the ultra wealthy the greatest benefits while doing very little for me. People like me should logically be supporting the Repubs. Over 100k in income, multiple properties, college educated, long time married, kids, you know, what used to be the back bone of our country.

But todays ruling Repubs only seem to want to help the ultra rich, seems to me. And that's a problem if you can't get people like me to look at he Repub party. Hell, I was a registered Repub. But only to vote for the first version of John McCain. I used to really like him. Before he went old man crazy.

Repubs actually had another candidate I liked. The Gov from out west who was ambassador to China. Spoke Chinese. He got run out of Rethug town on a rail. Can't remember his name.

Jon Huntsmen. A very successful governor as well. If the GOP were to come back to sanity, an excellent choice in 2016. Not a chance of that, considering what I am seeing with these people.

I will match you dollar for dollar in your campaign contributions to Huntsmen.

 

[Missourian]

Ah, the spirit of compromise...

 

[Old Rocks]

They can dump the social issues and still get the social cons because at the end of the day it'll still be better than a democrat.

Teabaggers are not going to let that happen.

 

[Gadawg73]

I can always tell when you are losing an argument is when you shoe-horn some lame sports analogy in.

Okay, let's try again.

There are people out there that ONLY vote GOP because of social issues. They don't care about the capital gains tax or the upper income tax, or Free Trade or Frank-Dodd because those issues either don't effect them or they aren't smart enough to realize what a negative effect these issues have on their lives.

Seriously, I've known union guys who voted REpublican not understanding why they are now in a "right to work" shop.

If the GOP openly abandoned the social issues instead of just pretending to care about them during elections and then ignoring them the rest of the time (which is, by the way, pretty much what they do), a lot of these folks might stop thinking about them and actuallly look at what the economic costs to them are of these positions.

You know, for the 90% of us who aren't business owners, and don't think they walk on water.

And this is where the GOP is in a trick bag. They can't win with these people and they can't win without them.

And there are Democrats out there that ONLY vote Democrat because of social issues.
So what else is new?
Life is like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears and score your points when you get the opportunity.
We are now with our backs to the end zone in this country. It is 1st and goal against us at the one.
What do we do? Lay down like we have and allow the tax and spend fools that can not balance a check book just walk on in, raise taxes again and then proceed to raise spending the same amount as we always have because of fear?
NO, we stand up and fight them off, cut the massive waste in the budget and take possession of the ball after their 4 tries at fucking us once again.

Good lord, Gadawg, consider what the GOP has shown us since 1980. How is spend and borrow better than tax and spend? At least the latter does not drive up the debt.

If the GOP wants to run as fiscal conservatives, they have to show us that in reality. Two wars and a reduction in taxes is not fiscal conservatism. Continued spending on the military at a rate above that of the next 14 nations is not fiscal conservatism. It is exactly what Eisenhower warned us about.

What we have seen in the last 30 years from the GOP is even more profligate spending than the Dems. Spending in times of peace and good economics. There is no reason at present for anyone that is fiscally conservative to vote for the GOP.

Fiscal conservatives CUT SPENDING when spending is out of control.
What has the White House offered?
Nothing. Get back to me when your team offers one cent in spending cuts.
GOP never has spent more than the Democrats. Why the fiction?

 

[Gadawg73]

They can dump the social issues and still get the social cons because at the end of the day it'll still be better than a democrat.

Teabaggers are not going to let that happen.

Actually, teabaggers here in Georgia run on tax issues only. Sure, some that come and support them have their social agendas.
Just like the communist party members voting Democrat. You are not a communist but they are in your party.

 

[Gadawg73]

Ah, the spirit of compromise...

Yes, what a spirit that is!

 

[bripat9643]

Interestingly enough, libertarians are closer to that than anyone else.

If the GOP opened its platform up to libertarian principles they could win elections.

People are tired of the authoritarianism and the fiscal recklessness. That's where libertarianism comes into play.

I'm also tired of all the conservative social issues. I'm tired of the drug war, I'm tired of hearing about abortion. I'm tired of attempts to legislation morality. I'm tired of the creationist idiocies of the Christian fundamentalists.

Seriously. It's getting old. I swear the GOP purposely loses elections because they HAVE to realize at this point that they're not going to get the indies by clinging to social issues.

If they ever nominate one of those fundamentalist numskulls like Mourdoch who starts talking about "legitimate rape" I'll be sending a check to any Republican who is running against him. That idiocy did more than anything to lose the election for the Republicans. They should bar all fundies from being nominated.

 

[Shelzin]

Joe hates business owners as we do not work in his eyes.

If you are a business owner then... Well... Lets just say I think you are lying.

Edit: OH... You are damn near 60... I guess it is believable if unlikely.

I own 3 corporations.

That can't be right. I don't think anyone can run a successful business with the inability to say... I agree with someone I don't like.

You know, for the 90% of us who aren't business owners, and don't think they walk on water.

And this is where the GOP is in a trick bag. They can't win with these people and they can't win without them. That's the crux of everything Joe just said.

And you agree with that. Unless... You are talking to him and then ... Well shit, lets make something up that he didn't say because you ... I don't know... Want to be partisan?

 

[g5000]

Fiscal conservatives CUT SPENDING when spending is out of control.
What has the White House offered?
Nothing. Get back to me when your team offers one cent in spending cuts.
GOP never has spent more than the Democrats. Why the fiction?

Not a fiction. Bush and the GOP Congress spent more than any previous Administration. The self-avowed "conservatives" of the Bush era spent like drunken sailors on crack. They did not cut spending. They doubled the national debt.

That is one of the main reasons I stopped voting in 2006.

You are hallucinating.


.

 

[bripat9643]

Jon Huntsmen. A very successful governor as well. If the GOP were to come back to sanity, an excellent choice in 2016. Not a chance of that, considering what I am seeing with these people.

Huntsman is a tax and spend RINO. It's no surprise that liberals like him. However, most Republicans aren't interested in promoting the liberal agenda.

As governor Huntsman promoted programs intended to reduce carbon emissions, including the Western Climate Initiative, which included six states and three Canadian provinces, had a cap-a-trade provision and encouraged fuel-efficient vehicles, renewable energy use and energy conservation. He also appeared in an advertisement sponsored by Environmental Defense, where he said, “Now it’s time for Congress to act by capping greenhouse-gas pollution.”

Huntsman as Governor backed bills providing civil rights protections to gays and lesbians, and threatened to veto a measure repealing in-state college tuition for the children of illegal immigrants.

In 2007, when asked about a healthcare mandate, Huntsman said, “I’m comfortable with a requirement – you can call it whatever you want, but at some point we’re going to have to get serious about how we deal with this issue”.

Huntsman is a RINO.

End of story.

 

[asterism]

You invent excuses for the far right's role in the demise of the GOP. Americans generally despise Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and while like Ron Paul, they won't vote for any libertarian for president.

You guys simply don't county anymore.

Each of them were perfectly electable until the far right social values and libertarian crowds pulled the hate card.

You would think after America rejected them, and Obama should have been beat by a Howdie Doodie candidate, the far right of the GOP would catch on that their national power is eroding.

You guys don't count much anymore, Frank and Asterism, and if the country goes over the cliff fiscally, you will have nothing left to offer except come shovel snow from the public streets.

Pulled the hate card? Libertarians?

You're off your fucking rocker. McCain lost because the Democrats had an overwhelmingly superior ground game. Romney lost because he didn't get the disaffected conservatives to vote for him and the GOP didn't do ANYTHING to attract new voters.

And you painting me as the "far right" is indicative of how tone deaf the GOP establishment is. It's all abstract to your type. I'm nowhere near the "far right" in voting nor in political pragmatism. I just didn't think McCain and Romney were worth the grief becoming an election day activist. Neither had anything but status quote milquetoast proposals.

But go ahead and invent your own narrative. We lost, but you're still manning your post on a sinking ship. I've decided to swim on my own - and that's worked out quite well for me so far.

Name one person on the right you think could have won either in 2008 or 2012.

 

[Toro]

I was a huge fan of Rick Perry and hope he throws his hat in the ring for the 2016 election.

Slick Rick needs to be prepared next time.
He would have done no better than Romney.
I have no problems with him on most issues but can HE compromise?

He wrote that he thought SS was unconstitutional. That's what I think of being appealing to the very hard right but totally losing the middle.