Zone1 The Roman Catholic View on Justification

[Northwestresident]

I found an excellent essay on the Roman Catholic View on Justification. Here is the link:

The Roman Catholic view on justification

They teach that through faith and the sacraments that we receive God's grace which then enables us to do meritorious works unto salvation.

carm.org

 

[Death-Ninja]

I found an excellent essay on the Roman Catholic View on Justification. Here is the link:

The Roman Catholic view on justification

They teach that through faith and the sacraments that we receive God's grace which then enables us to do meritorious works unto salvation.

carm.org

Would you do us a solid and show us in the bible where Christ Jesus instructs such, exactly??? Where does Christ ordain that in order for us to be saved, we must submit to a religion, and perform rituals, including praying to pagan idols, performing works as you say, submitting to sacraments, or donating money to the Roman church so we might lessen time in hell, or perhaps if we give enough money maybe escape hell altogether?

Could you do that for us, because excuse me, but I thought that man cannot enter heaven via works, or religious ritual, or the intercession of Christ Jesus mortal mother, father, brothers, sisters priests, angel/saint idolatry, ect ect ect.... I was under the impression that there is only one possible way to salvation, and that that way is only via Christ Jesus and not via any other conceivable mechanism, including 99% of the pagan nonsense the Roman Church is selling, would you do that for us?

 

[Meriweather]

I was under the impression that there is only one possible way to salvation, and that that way is only via Christ Jesus

What, specifically, do you say is "via Christ Jesus."

The Catholic Church follows the way of Christ by remaining in the footsteps of his life:

1. His baptism
2. His proclamation that sins are forgiven
3. His promises given in the Last Supper and daily celebrating it in his memory.
4. His gift and promise of the Holy Spirit
5. Remaining true to our marriage vows
6. Establishing a special priesthood as he did
7. Through the care and healing of the sick and dying

We remember and follow his fasting (during Lent)
We proclaim and live his Gospel

We remember his answers to the question: Lord, when did we see you hungry, thirsty, naked, in prison, sick.... Jesus has expectations of his followers. And in the end, we say, "We are only unprofitable servants doing only what it is our duty to do."


The reason I ask this is because the words I read of so many is their way is via "I accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. I am now saved! Apparently this means being free from "work" as this might be seen as trying to "earn" ones way into heaven.

Meanwhile, Catholics act as Jesus did and as Jesus commanded. As unprofitable as we may be, one of his teachings is to serve...and to follow him--as we do by following him and his ministry through what are now called the Sacraments (i.e. the sacred acts of his own life).

Seriously, which is "via Christ Jesus"?

 

[Death-Ninja]

What, specifically, do you say is "via Christ Jesus."

The Catholic Church follows the way of Christ by remaining in the footsteps of his life:

1. His baptism
2. His proclamation that sins are forgiven
3. His promises given in the Last Supper and daily celebrating it in his memory.
4. His gift and promise of the Holy Spirit
5. Remaining true to our marriage vows
6. Establishing a special priesthood as he did
7. Through the care and healing of the sick and dying

We remember and follow his fasting (during Lent)
We proclaim and live his Gospel

We remember his answers to the question: Lord, when did we see you hungry, thirsty, naked, in prison, sick.... Jesus has expectations of his followers. And in the end, we say, "We are only unprofitable servants doing only what it is our duty to do."


The reason I ask this is because the words I read of so many is their way is via "I accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. I am now saved! Apparently this means being free from "work" as this might be seen as trying to "earn" ones way into heaven.

Meanwhile, Catholics act as Jesus did and as Jesus commanded. As unprofitable as we may be, one of his teachings is to serve...and to follow him--as we do by following him and his ministry through what are now called the Sacraments (i.e. the sacred acts of his own life).

Seriously, which is "via Christ Jesus"?

I believe you are obfuscating, I asked you if you could, show us in the bible where its explained that the only way to salvation is via pagan idolatry, and the total submission to the church of Rome, where the Roman pagans led by a pope claiming personal infallibility, venerate the so-called queen of heaven as a co-equal intercessor to Christ Jesus, and all of the other totally ludicrous nonsense the Roman church has disseminated over centuries of pagan idolatry dressed up by "Constantine" as Christianity?

Where does Christ Jesus in the bible, advise his apostles that his mortal mother is/will be the queen of heaven, a title which in his time would have been known to every Jewish man, women, and child to be the title of an ancient Babylonian demon/goddess named "Semiramis," the mother of Tammuz, who would later be called Baal! Where in the bible does it instruct us that she will be co-intercessor on behalf of mankind before the throne of God???

Below are some very explicit passages direct from bible on the matter.....

John 14:6 ESV / 711 helpful votes​

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Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Acts 4:12 ESV / 508 helpful votes​

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And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

1 Timothy 2:5 ESV / 321 helpful votes​

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For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

John 3:16 ESV / 274 helpful votes​

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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 10:9 ESV / 218 helpful votes​

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I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Romans 10:9 ESV / 217 helpful votes​

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Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 3:36 ESV / 212 helpful votes​

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Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 1:14 ESV / 161 helpful votes​

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And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 3:18 ESV / 141 helpful votes​

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Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 1:1 ESV / 133 helpful votes​

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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 8:24 ESV / 120 helpful votes​

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I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Romans 6:23 ESV / 113 helpful votes​

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For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 17:3 ESV / 105 helpful votes​

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And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

John 5:23 ESV / 95 helpful votes​

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That all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

John 3:3 ESV / 91 helpful votes​

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Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

1 John 5:20 ESV / 88 helpful votes​

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And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 8:58 ESV / 87 helpful votes​

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Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Isaiah 44:6 ESV / 85 helpful votes​

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Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

Isaiah 9:6 ESV / 80 helpful votes​

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For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Romans 3:23 ESV / 79 helpful votes​

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For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV / 77 helpful votes​

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For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

John 10:30 ESV / 76 helpful votes​

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I and the Father are one.”

Hebrews 4:15 ESV / 75 helpful votes​

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For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

John 20:28 ESV / 75 helpful votes​

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Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV / 74 helpful votes​

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Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

John 6:35 ESV / 74 helpful votes​

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Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

John 10:30-33 ESV / 69 helpful votes​

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I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

John 11:25-26 ESV / 67 helpful votes​

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Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 14:9 ESV / 66 helpful votes​

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Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

1 John 5:11-12 ESV / 63 helpful votes​

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And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

John 3:16-18 ESV / 63 helpful votes​

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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Acts 16:30-31 ESV / 61 helpful votes​

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Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Matthew 25:41 ESV / 60 helpful votes​

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“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

John 11:25 ESV / 59 helpful votes​

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Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

Hebrews 7:25 ESV / 58 helpful votes​

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Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

Romans 10:13 ESV / 58 helpful votes​

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For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

John 1:3 ESV / 58 helpful votes​

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All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 John 2:23 ESV / 57 helpful votes​

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No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.

2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV / 57 helpful votes​

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For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Romans 10:9-11 ESV / 55 helpful votes​

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Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

1 John 2:2 ESV / 54 helpful votes​

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He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 ESV / 54 helpful votes​

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For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

John 3:13 ESV / 54 helpful votes​

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No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

1 Peter 3:15 ESV / 52 helpful votes​

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But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

John 5:18 ESV / 51 helpful votes​

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This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Isaiah 53:4 ESV / 51 helpful votes​

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Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.

1 Peter 2:4 ESV / 50 helpful votes​

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As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious,

Isaiah 7:14 ESV / 50 helpful votes​

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Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV / 48 helpful votes​

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Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Romans 3:10 ESV / 47 helpful votes​

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As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

John 3:16-17 ESV / 47 helpful votes​

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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Revelation 1:17-18 ESV / 46 helpful votes​

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When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Matthew 28:18 ESV / 46 helpful votes​

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And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

John 8:12 ESV / 45 helpful votes​

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Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Matthew 7:13-14 ESV / 45 helpful votes​

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“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

1 John 1:7 ESV / 44 helpful votes​

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But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Ephesians 2:1-22 ESV / 44 helpful votes​

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And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— ...

Romans 3:20 ESV / 44 helpful votes​

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For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

2 Peter 3:9 ESV / 43 helpful votes​

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The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Colossians 2:9 ESV / 43 helpful votes​

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For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Hebrews 12:2 ESV / 42 helpful votes​

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Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

John 1:29 ESV / 42 helpful votes​

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The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

2 John 1:9 ESV / 41 helpful votes​

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Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

Philippians 2:5 ESV / 41 helpful votes​

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Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

John 8:51 ESV / 41 helpful votes​

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Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”

John 1:18 ESV / 41 helpful votes​

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No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

1 John 5:10-12 ESV / 40 helpful votes​

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Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Acts 13:38-39 ESV / 40 helpful votes​

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Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

John 6:50-51 ESV / 40 helpful votes​

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This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

Matthew 28:19 ESV / 40 helpful votes​

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Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Romans 5:1-21 ESV / 39 helpful votes​

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Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. ...

Matthew 11:27 ESV / 39 helpful votes​

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All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Hebrews 5:8-9 ESV / 38 helpful votes​

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Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Hebrews 2:14 ESV / 38 helpful votes​

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Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Acts 16:31 ESV / 38 helpful votes​

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And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Revelation 1:5-6 ESV / 37 helpful votes​

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And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 3:16 ESV / 37 helpful votes​

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Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Revelation 1:18 ESV / 36 helpful votes​

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And the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

2 Peter 1:1 ESV / 36 helpful votes​

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Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 4:4 ESV / 36 helpful votes​

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There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—

John 1:4 ESV / 35 helpful votes​

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In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Revelation 14:12 ESV / 34 helpful votes​

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Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

1 John 2:1-2 ESV / 34 helpful votes​

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My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Ephesians 2:18 ESV / 34 helpful votes​

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For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

Romans 8:2 ESV / 34 helpful votes​

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For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Romans 5:21 ESV / 34 helpful votes​

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So that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 ESV / 33 helpful votes​

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This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Romans 4:25 ESV / 33 helpful votes​

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Who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

1 Peter 2:24 ESV / 32 helpful votes​

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He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 ESV / 32 helpful votes​

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And to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

Hebrews 9:14-15 ESV / 31 helpful votes​

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How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

John 1:2 ESV / 31 helpful votes​

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He was in the beginning with God.

Matthew 7:15 ESV / 31 helpful votes​

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“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Hebrews 10:20 ESV / 30 helpful votes​

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By the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,

Hebrews 9:24-28 ESV / 30 helpful votes​

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For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:11-12 ESV / 30 helpful votes​

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But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

1 Timothy 2:1 ESV / 30 helpful votes​

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First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,

Matthew 10:32-33 ESV / 28 helpful votes​

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So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

Acts 2:38 ESV / 27 helpful votes​

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And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 10:25-37 ESV / 24 helpful votes​

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And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.” But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” ...

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[Meriweather]

I believe you are obfuscating, I asked you if you could, show us in the bible where its explained that the only way to salvation is via pagan idolatry, and the total submission to the church of Rome, where the Roman pagans led by a pope claiming personal infallibility, venerate the so-called queen of heaven as a co-equal intercessor to Christ Jesus, and all of the other totally ludicrous nonsense the Roman church has disseminated over centuries of pagan idolatry dressed up by "Constantine" as Christianity?

In the Catholic Church, there is no "pagan idolatry"
In the Catholic Church, there is no "total submission to the church of Rome"
In the Catholic Church, the is not "personal infallibility" including the Pope
In the Catholic Church we honor Mary. She is not a co-equal to Christ in any way.

Why the need to make up so much in order to complain about the Catholic Church? Why not tell us of your own faith journey?

 

[Meriweather]

Where does Christ Jesus in the bible, advise his apostles that his mortal mother is/will be the queen of heaven, a title which in his time would have been known to every Jewish man, women, and child to be the title of an ancient Babylonian demon/goddess named "Semiramis," the mother of Tammuz, who would later be called Baal! Where in the bible does it instruct us that she will be co-intercessor on behalf of mankind before the throne of God???

I have never heard such nonsense. Where did you learn it?

As far as the rest of your post...have no idea what point you are trying to make. Can you summarize it in your own words in a few sentences?

 

[Death-Ninja]

In the Catholic Church, there is no "pagan idolatry"
In the Catholic Church, there is no "total submission to the church of Rome"
In the Catholic Church, the is not "personal infallibility" including the Pope
In the Catholic Church we honor Mary. She is not a co-equal to Christ in any way.

Why the need to make up so much in order to complain about the Catholic Church? Why not tell us of your own faith journey?

Why so angry? If it is NOT in the bible, then it is NOT Christian, period! Semiramis, the Catholic Mary, is known by many names, Ashtaroth, Astarte, Diana, Queen of Heaven, ect ect. You do not know your own theology, and I knew you did not which is why I challenged you with it!

Semiramis son, Tammuz was torn to pieces by wild animals, so she gathered up his body and placed all parts into a basket and set them along banks of river for forty days, and she mourned him, then on day 41 Tammuz was raised from dead. Does this not sound familiar to you in at least some fashion?

It should, because this Babylonian demon resurrection is precisely what roman Catholics celebrate each year as "Lent!" There is no place in bible where Christ Jesus instructs his apostles that his mother, the queen of heaven will be co-intercessor with him in their salvation, you cannot produce any such passage from the bible because there is none, and that makes any such establishment of such, and it is the absolute main thrust of Roman Catholicism, heretical, and actually blasphemous!

I can literally rip the pagan Roman religion to pieces right before your eyes, 90% of which is literally pagan ritual Roman emperor Constantine forced to be merged into it, this is irrefutable truth, but it will do you no good if you refuse to see the obvious. I was raised just as Roman Catholic as you were, then one day I actually read the bible, which you almost certainly have not, and I then perceived truth!

Here's the indisputable rub, if it is not within the bible, then it is NOT of the bible! There are good reasons from perspective of the Roman church, why they burned you at the stake if you were accused of reading the bible, that was an automatic death sentence, and they murdered millions and millions over such because they knew that they(Roman church)were not even remotely biblical! And this doctrine is not ancient history either, as a boy in Catholic private schools we were strongly encouraged to NOT read the bible absent the guidance of a priest, or approved nun, they still attempt to control the flow so to speak, to this very day!

 

[Meriweather]

Why so angry? If it is NOT in the bible, then it is NOT Christian, period! Semiramis, the Catholic Mary, is known by many names, Ashtaroth, Astarte, Diana, Queen of Heaven, ect ect. You do not know your own theology, and I knew you did not which is why I challenged you with it!

You are confusing 'angry' with patient. Not only do I know my own theology, I can easily identify the ignorance of others when it comes to the Catholic faith. Your example was so amusing, it wasn't even mildly irritating, much less being anything that would anger anyone. Also, you cut and paste list was no challenge and not worth the bother. I reiterate, why not set forth your own beliefs instead talking about Catholicism which, clearly, you know nothing about.

 

[Meriweather]

Semiramis son, Tammuz was torn to pieces by wild animals, so she gathered up his body and placed all parts into a basket and set them along banks of river for forty days, and she mourned him, then on day 41 Tammuz was raised from dead. Does this not sound familiar to you in at least some fashion?

No. Too many differences. As were the rest of your "efforts". You could just as easily dragged something out of the Harry Potter books. No need to be so desperate.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Would you do us a solid and show us in the bible where Christ Jesus instructs such, exactly??? Where does Christ ordain that in order for us to be saved, we must submit to a religion, and perform rituals, including praying to pagan idols, performing works as you say, submitting to sacraments, or donating money to the Roman church so we might lessen time in hell, or perhaps if we give enough money maybe escape hell altogether?

Could you do that for us, because excuse me, but I thought that man cannot enter heaven via works, or religious ritual, or the intercession of Christ Jesus mortal mother, father, brothers, sisters priests, angel/saint idolatry, ect ect ect.... I was under the impression that there is only one possible way to salvation, and that that way is only via Christ Jesus and not via any other conceivable mechanism, including 99% of the pagan nonsense the Roman Church is selling, would you do that for us?

you are a hypocrite. You submit to your own religion, then criticize others for submitting to a different one...



oh, this is when you say you don't follow religion, you follow Jesus..?

Spare me.

 

[Death-Ninja]

you are a hypocrite. You submit to your own religion, then criticize others for submitting to a different one...



oh, this is when you say you don't follow religion, you follow Jesus..?

Spare me.

Nope, I am not, I am just right and you just wrong, and its not a game either if you really are a believer, if you really believe the BS paganism spewed by Roman church then you need to really really focus on what Christ Jesus had to say on hell, and did not say about someplace called purgatory, he said when you go to hell, there you will stay forever and ever! He also preached extensively on false messiahs, doctrines, and religions, and the fate of those intentionally misleading the flock into perdition, which the Roman church absolutely is doing!

You would know every word of this, if you'd just read the bible, its not hidden code, and the Roman church knows they are misleading a billion people to boot, they know it! Why what was it Jesus said, the vast majority will go through the door to hell as the door to salvation is narrow, that doesn't mean hard necessarily, it means they choose to be mislead, and there is no forgiveness, no grace extended them, you either go through the narrow gate to salvation, or you burn!

 

[ding]

Nope, I am not, I am just right and you just wrong, and its not a game either if you really are a believer, if you really believe the BS paganism spewed by Roman church then you need to really really focus on what Christ Jesus had to say on hell, and did not say about someplace called purgatory, he said when you go to hell, there you will stay forever and ever! He also preached extensively on false messiahs, doctrines, and religions, and the fate of those intentionally misleading the flock into perdition, which the Roman church absolutely is doing!

You would know every word of this, if you'd just read the bible, its not hidden code, and the Roman church knows they are misleading a billion people to boot, they know it! Why what was it Jesus said, the vast majority will go through the door to hell as the door to salvation is narrow, that doesn't mean hard necessarily, it means they choose to be mislead, and there is no forgiveness, no grace extended them, you either go through the narrow gate to salvation, or you burn!

It seems to me that your only belief is an argument against a rival religion's beliefs. You shouldn't need to tear down someone else's beliefs to build up your own. My religion shouldn't make you this upset. There must be something else bothering you.

 

[ding]

I found an excellent essay on the Roman Catholic View on Justification. Here is the link:

The Roman Catholic view on justification

They teach that through faith and the sacraments that we receive God's grace which then enables us to do meritorious works unto salvation.

carm.org

You do realize this link is to a paper arguing against Catholic beliefs, right?