The School Security Initiative

[kaz]

Tom? Combat vet?

That's correct: 1/7 AC/AM 11F40, Vietnam '67-'68

Kaz? PMSed hysteric with penis-envy.

Ah, Vietnam. So you were an America hating leftist who got drafted. Now I understand.

So combat vet, here's a question you keep hiding from like it was the Viet Cong.

You brought up a shooter where other people could be hit. I suggested shooting into the ceiling above the shooter so you don't accidentally shoot someone but you want him to know he's being targeted to slow him down.

You mocked that. You did not say what your combat experience told you about how to handle that would be. I really want to know.

And I don't mean what you did, put on a dress, pretend to be a Vietnamese woman and hide in a hut like you're doing now. Let's say you wanted to stop him

 

[Crixus]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

You would be shocked at how small you can make an AR simply by pushing two pins and separating the two components. Maybe the sicko pulled off the upper and stuffed it in a bag. But then, he was not allowed on campus with a back pack, so if he was spotted with a bag attempting to assemble a rifle he would have been stopped maybe. Don’t know, crazy shit.



I’m with you on the rest. Here, Highschool football is the thing. So every school has to bump property taxes to build a $6,000,000 Highschool football stadium, then another two or three to pay the utilities and grounds keepers. I would be all for a bond issue that would go to hireing real effective professional security guards, not old, fat, lazy, washed up cops or soldiers.

 

[Tom Horn]

You would be shocked at how small you can make an AR simply by pushing two pins and separating the two components. Maybe the sicko pulled off the upper and stuffed it in a bag. But then, he was not allowed on campus with a back pack, so if he was spotted with a bag attempting to assemble a rifle he would have been stopped maybe. Don’t know, crazy shit.

Oh, I know we had to break and reassemble in the dark....both the M-16, Ithaca 37, and CAR-15, the forerunner to the M-4. But Cruz carried the AR in a soft rifle case into the school and the Uber driver took off without notifying anybody.

 

[Crixus]

You would be shocked at how small you can make an AR simply by pushing two pins and separating the two components. Maybe the sicko pulled off the upper and stuffed it in a bag. But then, he was not allowed on campus with a back pack, so if he was spotted with a bag attempting to assemble a rifle he would have been stopped maybe. Don’t know, crazy shit.

Oh, I know we had to break and reassemble in the dark....both the M-16, Ithaca 37, and CAR-15, the forerunner to the M-4. But Cruz carried the AR in a soft rifle case into the school and the Uber driver took off without notifying anybody.

Military is one thing, an armchair commando not so much. But I diddnt hear about the rifle case. That’s unbelievable. Dang.

 

[Crixus]

You would be shocked at how small you can make an AR simply by pushing two pins and separating the two components. Maybe the sicko pulled off the upper and stuffed it in a bag. But then, he was not allowed on campus with a back pack, so if he was spotted with a bag attempting to assemble a rifle he would have been stopped maybe. Don’t know, crazy shit.

Oh, I know we had to break and reassemble in the dark....both the M-16, Ithaca 37, and CAR-15, the forerunner to the M-4. But Cruz carried the AR in a soft rifle case into the school and the Uber driver took off without notifying anybody.

One thing I have an issue with though and that s holding everyone in between himself and the school accountable for this kids actions. Where would it stop, and if we can some how charge the Uber driver and a bunch of other folks with some type of negligence then where would it stop? Cops, FBI. School officials I can seee holding them to account. It’s just not an Uber drivers job to be a police man or woman. In all honesty, the Uber driver did his job. FBI and local LE? Not so much.

 

[Tom Horn]

One thing I have an issue with though and that s holding everyone in between himself and the school accountable for this kids actions. Where would it stop, and if we can some how charge the Uber driver and a bunch of other folks with some type of negligence then where would it stop? Cops, FBI. School officials I can seee holding them to account. It’s just not an Uber drivers job to be a police man or woman. In all honesty, the Uber driver did his job. FBI and local LE? Not so much.

The Uber driver was a woman and also a citizen....I can understand her not confronting him but she certainly could have called 911 to tell them she just watched a sketchy kid walk into a school carrying a rifle case. This is where the "see something/say something" really broke down. She can't be indicted or charged but she can be shamed for ignoring the siren that must have been going off in her head.

 

[Crixus]

One thing I have an issue with though and that s holding everyone in between himself and the school accountable for this kids actions. Where would it stop, and if we can some how charge the Uber driver and a bunch of other folks with some type of negligence then where would it stop? Cops, FBI. School officials I can seee holding them to account. It’s just not an Uber drivers job to be a police man or woman. In all honesty, the Uber driver did his job. FBI and local LE? Not so much.

The Uber driver was a woman and also a citizen....I can understand her not confronting him but she certainly could have called 911 to tell them she just watched a sketchy kid walk into a school carrying a rifle case. This is where the "see something/say something" really broke down. She can't be indicted or charged but she can be shamed for ignoring the siren that must have been going off in her head.

It actually Rome down In the home. The FBI is 99.9% to blame as yet again, here is another mass shooting happening on their watch. Uber driver did her/his job. The FBI and sherrifs Department didn’t. Fire folks there first, then maybe destroy an Uber drivers life.

 

[kaz]

Tom? Combat vet?

That's correct: 1/7 AC/AM 11F40, Vietnam '67-'68

Kaz? PMSed hysteric with penis-envy.

Ah, Vietnam. So you were an America hating leftist who got drafted. Now I understand.

So combat vet, here's a question you keep hiding from like it was the Viet Cong.

You brought up a shooter where other people could be hit. I suggested shooting into the ceiling above the shooter so you don't accidentally shoot someone but you want him to know he's being targeted to slow him down.

You mocked that. You did not say what your combat experience told you about how to handle that would be. I really want to know.

And I don't mean what you did, put on a dress, pretend to be a Vietnamese woman and hide in a hut like you're doing now. Let's say you wanted to stop him

Well Tom, you made a point of mocking my plan. Again, I am NOT a combat vet. You give me a "funny" and run away from the question. Apparently my suggestion of your Vietnam combat service was accurate. This is only a message board and you're not man enough to back up what you say. Actual combat? You're the third dress under the bed on the left

 

[Tom Horn]

Well Tom, you made a point of mocking my plan. Again, I am NOT a combat vet. You give me a "funny" and run away from the question. Apparently my suggestion of your Vietnam combat service was accurate. This is only a message board and you're not man enough to back up what you say. Actual combat? You're the third dress under the bed on the left

What you are is a nasty little bitch making a fool of yourself.

 

[kaz]

Well Tom, you made a point of mocking my plan. Again, I am NOT a combat vet. You give me a "funny" and run away from the question. Apparently my suggestion of your Vietnam combat service was accurate. This is only a message board and you're not man enough to back up what you say. Actual combat? You're the third dress under the bed on the left

What you are is a nasty little bitch making a fool of yourself.

You made the point, I just want you to address it. That you would go out of your way to be a dick about my suggesting to shoot into the ceiling if too many people are around the shooter so they know that they are a target while emphasizing you're a combat veteran, then hiding from addressing what you would do is really you being a nasty little bitch making a fool of yourself.

You chose to be a dick to me. You didn't just make a general comment on the board that I reacted to. I want to know. If there's an actual answer for that, it's worth it to me for you to school me on that to know the answer to the question.

You mocked shooting into the ceiling to get his attention if too many people are around. And again, you said you are a combat veteran in doing that. So man up. What's your answer? I seriously want to know

 

[kaz]

Well Tom, you made a point of mocking my plan. Again, I am NOT a combat vet. You give me a "funny" and run away from the question. Apparently my suggestion of your Vietnam combat service was accurate. This is only a message board and you're not man enough to back up what you say. Actual combat? You're the third dress under the bed on the left

What you are is a nasty little bitch making a fool of yourself.

You're the combat vet (sic) who mocked my suggestion to shoot in the ceiling if there were too many people around the shooter to let him know he's under attack, you're the one who puts on a dress every time I ask you to explain what your plan would be.

I knew that dress fit too well on you, it's just your size.

But the point is obviously made. If there were any substance behind your shooting from your ass, you'd GLADLY school me. You've shown yourself to be the blowhard you are, so I'll stop dangling you out in the wind

 

[hazlnut]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

Many schools have exactly what you're describing. My kids schools do.

Minus the "heightened armed security" -- there's usually one officer -- a trained police officer not a rent-a-cop assigned to each school.

Bullet proof windows for an entire school would be prohibitively expensive.

Adam Lanza shot his way in.


Also, parents already pay property tax which is supposed to cover public schools. Now they have to kick in because the gun industry is so fucking greedy and selfish.

 

[emilynghiem]

No, that's not the solution. It's prohibitively expensive and totally unnecessary. In any school with over a hundred admin and faculty, there are probably a dozen of them willing to put in the time and effort to learn to use weapons and do the job for free.

At any particular school, the odds of a shooting like that are practically zero. Hiring people to cover every school is insanely prohibitive. And frankly, the admins and faculty will probably do a much better job than a bunch of lowly educated, lowly paid security guards

"lowly educated, lowly paid security guards"? Ah, now you're coming clear.....we aren't up to your lofty standards! Listen here....I doubt there are a dozen teachers in this country who could drop the hammer on a kid shooting up a school....during the Wednesday shooting they were RUNNING away before some of the students knew what was happening. Stick your teacher-militia where the sun don't shine...there ain't a chance in hell most could stop a fistfight much less a determined invader.

Dear Tom Horn
All the more reason for schools and teachers to go through the same training and at least SEE the procedures as required of SWAT, police, vets and combat teams.
All this nonsense that people think they can stop violence by just taking away guns
might stop if more people tried first hand experience at what's involved in defense and security.

This would create even GREATER awareness and appreciation of what
police and veterans have to do, and what procedures they use.

The more people are aware and familiar, the more consistent
respect and compliance with law enforcement procedures and principles.

It's because the average citizen and school staff CAN'T defend
themselves that we need to learn and respect what police and military do.

Maybe we wouldn't see so much taking this for granted
nor violating laws when we understand how serious this really is.

The more people trained in the basics, at least we'd know our place
and try to work with law enforcement instead of against each other.

 

[emilynghiem]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

Many schools have exactly what you're describing. My kids schools do.

Minus the "heightened armed security" -- there's usually one officer -- a trained police officer not a rent-a-cop assigned to each school.

Bullet proof windows for an entire school would be prohibitively expensive.

Adam Lanza shot his way in.


Also, parents already pay property tax which is supposed to cover public schools. Now they have to kick in because the gun industry is so fucking greedy and selfish.

Dear hazlnut
Add to that equation the greed for power and fear that Christians are right,
so that the left CENSORS and removes the very standards and solutions
from education that prevents and corrects criminal illness, addiction and abuse from escalating.

If you don't get what I'm referring to, do the research on Christian spiritual
healing that has been medically documented. these methods have been
used to diagnose the cause and apply therapy to cure mental illness
and addictions including schizophrenia and the occult obsessions
in sick people like David Berkowitz who is now recovered after receiving this.

If LIBERALS weren't so "selfish and greedy for power" they wouldn't
censor Christians who hold the very cure to prevent criminal madness
from escalating into murder and other crimes and violence, including
sexual abuse and predatory addictions that can also be cured by these methods.

So please add that 'selfish greed' on the left
to why the root problem of mental and criminal illness
isn't being addressed and solved in time to prevent more killings.

the liberals so greedy for power they reject, censor and demonize
Christians and mock the very healing prayer process that has
recovered minds from sickness and addiction and saved lives.

I have a friend, an atheist who went through spiritual healing to
overcome demonic rage that was fueling a helpless addiction
and self destruction. That pattern ended when he could finally
free his mind of the demonic oppression AFTER going through
spiritual healing. And he still doesn't want to share this cure with
others. He still believes it didn't help him, and he overcame by himself.
That's how selfish the left is. Even if they know there is a cure, they'd
rather other people suffer and die from lack of access to the cure
rather than admit the Christians are right, and demonic sickness
and mental illness and addiction CAN be overcome with spiritual healing.

The saddest irony is the left yells about wanting health care for all.
Well, if we would support research and development of free spiritual
healing that has been used to cure and cut costs of cancer, diabetes,
and other mental and physical ills including causes and symptoms
of abuse and addiction, then we could save enough resources to
provide health care for the greater population. Too bad the liberals
are too busy censoring the solutions, then complaining about the
cost of problems that could have been prevented in the first place!

 

[EGR one]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

The school in question has armed security guards. Staff were warned about this kid and a report was called in when he walked into the school, before any shots were fired. The school had held mass shooting drills.

The school followed all of the protocols and guidelines to prevent this shooting and to deal with an active shooter in this school and this sick was still able to shoot more than 30 people and get away from the school without being arrested.

The best way to keep this from happening again is to ban AR15’s and large magazine clips. It’s not rocket science.

So, the next one uses a couple of semi-automatic pistols. It's not rocket science.

 

[evenflow1969]

.

The teachers and administrators who are willing to get trained in gun safety will protect the school for free. Why waste all that money?

Anybody who's been in close combat knows it ain't easy to pull a trigger on somebody else....they usually freeze and get the weapon taken away from them or worse. I prefer keeping the perp outside until security can be alerted or the cops get involved.

That is so amazingly ignorant. You watch too much TV. Yes, that happens, but there are a lot of heroic people out there who act when they see things like that happening. Like the football coach in Florida. Also the Southerland Springs shooting.

You should tell the military how ignorant it is, they spend a huge amount of time and money training people so they do not freeze up when the shit is real.

I think perhaps you are the one that watches way too much TV, the world is not like 24

Some still freeze! unfortunate but true.

 

[EGR one]

Bingo. I've said that before too. While the first amendment protects gun rights in general, the schools have a clear justification that for employees of the school (admins, teachers) to be armed, they must go through certain training to do so. If they don't, they can leave their guns in their cars or at home.

I think this is what you mean anyway, but they should need to do the gun use and safety part of the training, not actually be trained to be full police or military

Bingo? Playing video games and shooting paper won't prepare you to take a life...you talk big but you'd be the first to freeze....or shoot over the invader's shoulder and hit an innocent kid.....then you get to take the walk for manslaughter....Ignorance like yours is rare, thankfully.

You can imagine all kinds of horrible things that might happen if school districts train and arm teachers who volunteer for the training. I can imagine horrible things that will happen if we don't arm the school personnel.

I might freeze up if someone is shooting at me, and then again, I might not. If I have a gun in my hand, and freeze up, I die. If I don't freeze up, I have a chance of living. If I don't have a gun in my hand, it doesn't matter whether I freeze up, or not, I die. Consequently, I strongly prefer having a gun in my hand.

By the time the shooter begins shooting into classrooms, there are no innocent children still standing in the hall to be accidentally shot.

 

[EGR one]

I KNOW more than a dozen people who would drop the hammer on a kid shooting up a school

A lot of people think they would, but until they are in the situation, nobody knows for sure.

True, no one knows for sure what they would do in an actual shooting situation, and that obviously includes police officers. But, we would be foolish to get rid of the police because they might freeze under fire. BTW, most of them don't freeze, and most of them have never been under fire before.

 

[EGR one]

I thought it was Tom Horn I called a leftist.

He's arguing that ordinary citizens even with the desire to be trained and actual training will throw their gun in the air, scream like a teenage girl and hide under a desk. He estimated that only a dozen people in the US wouldn't.

What I can't figure out then is where the military, police and security companies get all the people he does trust to have guns then

I wonder how many on this board know I'm a secret leftist....shhhhh.....And now you're lying.....I said a dozen teachers....and BTW, while you're shooting into the ceiling there's a round heading for your center-mass from some other hysterical woman who's decided she's as heroic as any man....that's what your kind of crazy begets...you simple bitch.

Well then, we would know that at least two teachers didn't freeze up, and one of them can shoot straight.

 

[EGR one]

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

No, what we really want is the rest of you to stand up on your own hind legs and take responsibility for your own welfare. I don't know of any conservatives, or NRA members, who want anyone to own or carry a firearm if they do not desire to do so. I do want those who do desire to own or carry a firearm, if they are legally able to own or carry one, to be able to own and carry weapons for their own defense and the defense of others. Millions of law abiding citizens carry firearms, and few of these weapons are ever misused.