The School Security Initiative

[kaz]

I thought it was Tom Horn I called a leftist.

He's arguing that ordinary citizens even with the desire to be trained and actual training will throw their gun in the air, scream like a teenage girl and hide under a desk. He estimated that only a dozen people in the US wouldn't.

What I can't figure out then is where the military, police and security companies get all the people he does trust to have guns then

I wonder how many on this board know I'm a secret leftist....shhhhh.....And now you're lying.....I said a dozen teachers....

Oh, a dozen teachers would shot back across the country. Yeah, it was me with no sense of perspective

and BTW, while you're shooting into the ceiling there's a round heading for your center-mass from some other hysterical woman who's decided she's as heroic as any man....that's what your kind of crazy begets...you simple bitch.

There is? Again, you're arguing we should accept the certainty of the shooter aiming at people for the possibility of that.

And I said shoot into the ceiling if there are too many people around. You disagree with that? Just plug away at the shooter and ignore that? I thought that's what you were concerned about.

Again your premise, that people shooting at the shooter will be ignored by the shooter.

That honest citizens are too cowardly to shoot back.

That's just idiotic, and no one with combat experience would say such an asinine thing. Those are the points you are arguing

 

[kaz]

I thought it was Tom Horn I called a leftist.

He's arguing that ordinary citizens even with the desire to be trained and actual training will throw their gun in the air, scream like a teenage girl and hide under a desk. He estimated that only a dozen people in the US wouldn't.

What I can't figure out then is where the military, police and security companies get all the people he does trust to have guns then

I wonder how many on this board know I'm a secret leftist....shhhhh.....And now you're lying.....I said a dozen teachers....and BTW, while you're shooting into the ceiling there's a round heading for your center-mass from some other hysterical woman who's decided she's as heroic as any man....that's what your kind of crazy begets...you simple bitch.

So Tom, serious question. I'm not a combat vet and don't claim to be one. I do have a gun collection. I'd like to learn to shoot more, but I live in cities and am busy and getting to ranges is too much hassle most of the time and it's not fun unless I do enough to get good at it.

So for future reference, you are in Florida, the shooter is across the room and there are too many people around. You are worried if you shot at him you'll hit someone else.

My answer was shoot into the ceiling above his head so he knows there's another gun aiming at him. Maybe things change and I can aim directly at him. You mocked that.

So what do you do? I seriously want to know. If you give me a good answer, I'll do that if it ever happens

 

[IsaacNewton]

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

 

[kaz]

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

Gotcha, civilization is where when a shooter is murdering children and teachers, your focus is keeping guns ... from the teachers and administrators of the school

To want to allow them to fight for their lives is to want a post-apocalyptic America.

You're a drooling leftist without the ability of cognitive reasoning

 

[Dschrute3]

The US Government School System is a sad dangerous mess. Looks like more folks are now realizing that. I strongly advise American parents consider education alternatives. The Government school system is only gonna get worse. Don't gamble with your child's life. Seek alternatives.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

Gotcha, civilization is where when a shooter is murdering children and teachers, your focus is keeping guns ... from the teachers and administrators of the school

To want to allow them to fight for their lives is to want a post-apocalyptic America.

You're a drooling leftist without the ability of cognitive reasoning

Step outside your bubble for ten seconds. The real world is out here.

 

[Thinker101]

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

If we all went a found our own states, who the hell will save your sorry asses when trouble comes.

 

[otto105]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

 

[Thinker101]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

Dunno champ, what is a child's life worth?

 

[kaz]

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

Gotcha, civilization is where when a shooter is murdering children and teachers, your focus is keeping guns ... from the teachers and administrators of the school

To want to allow them to fight for their lives is to want a post-apocalyptic America.

You're a drooling leftist without the ability of cognitive reasoning

Step outside your bubble for ten seconds. The real world is out here.

You pass laws that prevent honest citizens from defending themselves. It works. There was one gunman and thousands of people and the only one with a gun was the shooter.

Congratulations. Nice kill total.

When I say the hundred(s) of teachers and administrators should have been able to have guns to defend themselves, youstell me to "step outside your bubble for ten seconds."

Sorry, where did you leave your dick again?

 

[otto105]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

Dunno champ, what is a child's life worth?

Well thinker, it appears to be more than security officers, metal detectors, magnetic door security and making armed camps of higher education with the added cost of a bump stock.

That sound right?

 

[Thinker101]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

Dunno champ, what is a child's life worth?

Well thinker, it appears to be more than security officers, metal detectors, magnetic door security and making armed camps of higher education with the added cost of a bump stock.

That sound right?

And the answer is?

 

[otto105]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

Dunno champ, what is a child's life worth?

Well thinker, it appears to be more than security officers, metal detectors, magnetic door security and making armed camps of higher education with the added cost of a bump stock.

Tha

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

Gotcha, civilization is where when a shooter is murdering children and teachers, your focus is keeping guns ... from the teachers and administrators of the school

To want to allow them to fight for their lives is to want a post-apocalyptic America.

You're a drooling leftist without the ability of cognitive reasoning

Step outside your bubble for ten seconds. The real world is out here.

You pass laws that prevent honest citizens from defending themselves. It works. There was one gunman and thousands of people and the only one with a gun was the shooter.

Congratulations. Nice kill total.

When I say the hundred(s) of teachers and administrators should have been able to have guns to defend themselves, youstell me to "step outside your bubble for ten seconds."

Sorry, where did you leave your dick again?

What dick are YOU referring too? Wayne laPerals?

So if everyone has bullet proof vests, pants, backpacks and helmets along with a healthy paranoia your ready for the day?

What is the cost of that society?

 

[otto105]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

Dunno champ, what is a child's life worth?

Well thinker, it appears to be more than security officers, metal detectors, magnetic door security and making armed camps of higher education with the added cost of a bump stock.

Tha

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

Gotcha, civilization is where when a shooter is murdering children and teachers, your focus is keeping guns ... from the teachers and administrators of the school

To want to allow them to fight for their lives is to want a post-apocalyptic America.

You're a drooling leftist without the ability of cognitive reasoning

Step outside your bubble for ten seconds. The real world is out here.

You pass laws that prevent honest citizens from defending themselves. It works. There was one gunman and thousands of people and the only one with a gun was the shooter.

Congratulations. Nice kill total.

When I say the hundred(s) of teachers and administrators should have been able to have guns to defend themselves, youstell me to "step outside your bubble for ten seconds."

Sorry, where did you leave your dick again?

What dick are YOU referring too? Wayne laPerals?

So if everyone has bullet proof vests, pants, backpacks and helmets along with a healthy paranoia your ready for the day?

What is the cost of that society?

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

Dunno champ, what is a child's life worth?

Well thinker, it appears to be more than security officers, metal detectors, magnetic door security and making armed camps of higher education with the added cost of a bump stock.

That sound right?

And the answer is?

Whats the dollar cost analyst on the effects of guns?

Conservatives love to taut the effects of cost on environmental regulations.

So, what is the dollar cost analyst of forcing schools, public accommodations, and any other public events with same?

 

[kaz]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

Dunno champ, what is a child's life worth?

Well thinker, it appears to be more than security officers, metal detectors, magnetic door security and making armed camps of higher education with the added cost of a bump stock.

Tha

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

Gotcha, civilization is where when a shooter is murdering children and teachers, your focus is keeping guns ... from the teachers and administrators of the school

To want to allow them to fight for their lives is to want a post-apocalyptic America.

You're a drooling leftist without the ability of cognitive reasoning

Step outside your bubble for ten seconds. The real world is out here.

You pass laws that prevent honest citizens from defending themselves. It works. There was one gunman and thousands of people and the only one with a gun was the shooter.

Congratulations. Nice kill total.

When I say the hundred(s) of teachers and administrators should have been able to have guns to defend themselves, youstell me to "step outside your bubble for ten seconds."

Sorry, where did you leave your dick again?

What dick are YOU referring too? Wayne laPerals?

So if everyone has bullet proof vests, pants, backpacks and helmets along with a healthy paranoia your ready for the day?

What is the cost of that society?

Um ... what?

 

[Tom Horn]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really? So anyway, start treating the schools like banks....they actually are banks...where our investments in our kids grow into assets...successful adults. And it doesn't have to cost the taxpayers an additional dime....as if we don't already spend enough on these commie propaganda factories.

Here's how it works....a national initiative to secure all schools from intrusion...call it the School Security Initiative. Parents and concerned citizens will fund it privately.....they are very motivated people right now. It's peanuts really....4 or 5 secured doors and video systems monitored in the principal's office by a security guard, showing the campus ingress and egress points. Windows are easy to secure and empty classrooms remain locked so firearms can't be passed in by an accomplice. If a kid gets locked out because he's late he has to follow a protocol to get in. When school lets out, just like a crowd leaving a ballgame, heightened armed security kicks in until the last kid is gone. We know it's too simple a concept for the gun-grabbers to get but it will work and they can't stop it so screw them. Put a deadline of April Fools Day and watch the upgrade frenzy begin...it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

Tom Horn
Good ideas are my business

How do YOU justify this cost to local governments and taxpayers because YOU wants more guns in society?

I don't see it here.

You don't see it here because "it" isn't here.....Anybody without ADD would have recalled it was in the first paragraph......I'm suggesting a private initiative....I know that seems foreign to a reader programmed to believe only the government is able to solve problems.

 

[kaz]

You are either a parody or a truly psychotic woman who's gone off the deep end....I wonder which? Now stop trolling my thread and take a fucking hike.

Tell me again how an administrator shooting into the ceiling above a shooter will not cause virtually all shooters to stop or at least slow down shooting and spend time looking for cover

Tom?

 

[kaz]

I thought it was Tom Horn I called a leftist.

He's arguing that ordinary citizens even with the desire to be trained and actual training will throw their gun in the air, scream like a teenage girl and hide under a desk. He estimated that only a dozen people in the US wouldn't.

What I can't figure out then is where the military, police and security companies get all the people he does trust to have guns then

I wonder how many on this board know I'm a secret leftist....shhhhh.....And now you're lying.....I said a dozen teachers....and BTW, while you're shooting into the ceiling there's a round heading for your center-mass from some other hysterical woman who's decided she's as heroic as any man....that's what your kind of crazy begets...you simple bitch.

So for future reference, you are in Florida, the shooter is across the room and there are too many people around. You are worried if you shot at him you'll hit someone else.

My answer was shoot into the ceiling above his head so he knows there's another gun aiming at him. Maybe things change and I can aim directly at him. You mocked that.

So what do you do? I seriously want to know. If you give me a good answer, I'll do that if it ever happens

Tom? Combat vet?

 

[Tom Horn]

Tom? Combat vet?

That's correct: 1/7 AC/AM 11F40, Vietnam '67-'68

Kaz? PMSed hysteric with penis-envy.

 

[Pogo]

"lowly educated, lowly paid security guards"? Ah, now you're coming clear.....we aren't up to your lofty standards! Listen here....I doubt there are a dozen teachers in this country who could drop the hammer on a kid shooting up a school....during the Wednesday shooting they were RUNNING away before some of the students knew what was happening. Stick your teacher-militia where the sun don't shine...there ain't a chance in hell most could stop a fistfight much less a determined invader.

You're lying, you are not ex-military. You're just a poser like the rest of them. Listen to me! (pounds chest), I am military so I know everything about guns! You're peons!

I KNOW more than a dozen people who would drop the hammer on a kid shooting up a school

And they don't have to hit the kid. Shooting at them would greatly reduce the carnage and get give the cops more time to get there.

No fucking way you're military if you don't know that. Shooting in the air over his head would tremendously slow him down.

Leftists are such terrible liars. As Michael Jordan said when he stuffed an opponent driving for a dunk, get that shit out of here

"Leftists"?

Yes, a typical leftist (per their claim on message boards)

- Military vet
- Owns guns, lots of them, that's how they know guns are evil, designed to kill people and serve no other purpose
- Deeply Christian, that's how they know religion is evil
- Business owner, that's how they know businesses are greedy
- Rich and just want to pay more taxes (but don't)
- Used to be a Republican, that's how they know Republicans are evil

Well that's interesting since I claim absolutely none of those things and yet wags on this board call me a 'leftist'.

I guess it's a spur of the moment thing. But it's never occurred to me about the OP here.

I thought it was Tom Horn I called a leftist.

He's arguing that ordinary citizens even with the desire to be trained and actual training will throw their gun in the air, scream like a teenage girl and hide under a desk. He estimated that only a dozen people in the US wouldn't.

What I can't figure out then is where the military, police and security companies get all the people he does trust to have guns then

It was indeed Tom Horn you called a 'leftist'.

That would be this guy ----

carve another notch on the bedpost Donnieboi , and sleep with one eye open when youre around your wife.

Donald Trump had a nine-month affair with Karen McDougal in 2006 — two years into his marriage to Melania Trump — Ronan Farrow wrote in a blockbuster New Yorker article published early Friday. The bombshell piece has the Internet abuzz — and split.

And then there's Barry's squeeze....."Mike":

I realize you've been away a while but --- there you go. Can't tell the players without a program.

OK? I called Tom Horn a leftist for his view that guns are magical and only government and evil people can control them. What does that have to do with what wags on this board call you?

It's a comparison. I'm pretty sure that "leftist" and "leftist" are the same thing, even if "Grover Cleveland" and "Grover Cleveland" are not.