The School Security Initiative

[IsaacNewton]

Another thread where conservatives plead to the American population "join us in our vision for a post-apocalyptic America where everyone is armed. And gun manufacturers make more money."

Better yet how about all you gun huggers find a few states you want to turn into your armed Mad Max camp and you all go there and gear up. But you won't, you have some weird uber need to have all the rest of human society join you in your mental delusions.

No, what we really want is the rest of you to stand up on your own hind legs and take responsibility for your own welfare. I don't know of any conservatives, or NRA members, who want anyone to own or carry a firearm if they do not desire to do so. I do want those who do desire to own or carry a firearm, if they are legally able to own or carry one, to be able to own and carry weapons for their own defense and the defense of others. Millions of law abiding citizens carry firearms, and few of these weapons are ever misused.

You take no responsibility for yourself. Get a job and stop living off the federal government, it's well known red states take by far the most welfare among states. So stop with your fake con memes. Guess who isn't terrified of living life without a gun. 65 million school children go to school every day unarmed, oh how do they do it without being terrified. And today thanks to the gun lickers who elect people that make it legal for mentally ill people to buy and own guns, which was stopped by President Obama, the children at least have a reason to be afraid. You 'adults' that walk around terrified of your own shadow are pathetic. Grow a pair, take responsibility for you for your fear of the world and stop trying to force everyone to live in your disjointed bizarro world full of guns. I know you feel powerless without one in your hand, that is a mental problem go get that fixed.

 

[kaz]

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The teachers and administrators who are willing to get trained in gun safety will protect the school for free. Why waste all that money?

Anybody who's been in close combat knows it ain't easy to pull a trigger on somebody else....they usually freeze and get the weapon taken away from them or worse. I prefer keeping the perp outside until security can be alerted or the cops get involved.

That is so amazingly ignorant. You watch too much TV. Yes, that happens, but there are a lot of heroic people out there who act when they see things like that happening. Like the football coach in Florida. Also the Southerland Springs shooting.

You should tell the military how ignorant it is, they spend a huge amount of time and money training people so they do not freeze up when the shit is real.

I think perhaps you are the one that watches way too much TV, the world is not like 24

Some still freeze! unfortunate but true.

Gator's such an idiot.

People get CCs specifically to protect themselves. And they do, all the time. But for an admin or teacher to defend themselves and children, that's 24!!!!!

Golfing Gator would scream like a school girl and faint if she ever touched an actual gun

 

[kaz]

Bingo. I've said that before too. While the first amendment protects gun rights in general, the schools have a clear justification that for employees of the school (admins, teachers) to be armed, they must go through certain training to do so. If they don't, they can leave their guns in their cars or at home.

I think this is what you mean anyway, but they should need to do the gun use and safety part of the training, not actually be trained to be full police or military

Bingo? Playing video games and shooting paper won't prepare you to take a life...you talk big but you'd be the first to freeze....or shoot over the invader's shoulder and hit an innocent kid.....then you get to take the walk for manslaughter....Ignorance like yours is rare, thankfully.

You can imagine all kinds of horrible things that might happen if school districts train and arm teachers who volunteer for the training. I can imagine horrible things that will happen if we don't arm the school personnel.

I might freeze up if someone is shooting at me, and then again, I might not. If I have a gun in my hand, and freeze up, I die. If I don't freeze up, I have a chance of living. If I don't have a gun in my hand, it doesn't matter whether I freeze up, or not, I die. Consequently, I strongly prefer having a gun in my hand.

By the time the shooter begins shooting into classrooms, there are no innocent children still standing in the hall to be accidentally shot.

The four cops who were interestingly trained as cops all froze.

The gym teacher who was disarmed by the government was heroic protecting kids with his body while he was murdered.

That somehow joining the government is what determines if you're a hero or coward under fire is just moronic.

I said if you don't have a clear shot and are afraid you'd hit the wrong person, shoot in the ceiling above the shooter so at least he knows he's under fire which would at least slow him down.

Tom said, "I'm a COMBAT VETERAN, that is RIDICULOUS!" He won't answer what he would do

 

[kaz]

I KNOW more than a dozen people who would drop the hammer on a kid shooting up a school

A lot of people think they would, but until they are in the situation, nobody knows for sure.

True, no one knows for sure what they would do in an actual shooting situation, and that obviously includes police officers. But, we would be foolish to get rid of the police because they might freeze under fire. BTW, most of them don't freeze, and most of them have never been under fire before.

True, but in this case, four of the first four cops on the scene did freeze. I have good reason to believe I wouldn't that I'm not going to go into. But that working for the government is what determines if you'll freeze or not is silly.

And if an administrator with a gun did freeze. Sure, that means he's not shooting at the shooter, but that's worse than him not being there because ...

 

[evenflow1969]

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The teachers and administrators who are willing to get trained in gun safety will protect the school for free. Why waste all that money?

Anybody who's been in close combat knows it ain't easy to pull a trigger on somebody else....they usually freeze and get the weapon taken away from them or worse. I prefer keeping the perp outside until security can be alerted or the cops get involved.

That is so amazingly ignorant. You watch too much TV. Yes, that happens, but there are a lot of heroic people out there who act when they see things like that happening. Like the football coach in Florida. Also the Southerland Springs shooting.

You should tell the military how ignorant it is, they spend a huge amount of time and money training people so they do not freeze up when the shit is real.

I think perhaps you are the one that watches way too much TV, the world is not like 24

Some still freeze! unfortunate but true.

Gator's such an idiot.

People get CCs specifically to protect themselves. And they do, all the time. But for an admin or teacher to defend themselves and children, that's 24!!!!!

Golfing Gator would scream like a school girl and faint if she ever touched an actual gun

What people do not understand about military training is that is a full emersion 24 hours a day for six months to a year depending MOS and still people freeze. Some idiot froze during the granade toss at my basic about killed him self and the drill sargent. I doubt those teachers are going to sign up for that type of trainig and the cost of such training is crazy high. Further more the military attract people with a violence leaning personaity. Most teachers do not have the type of personality needed for such a situation.

 

[kaz]

I thought it was Tom Horn I called a leftist.

He's arguing that ordinary citizens even with the desire to be trained and actual training will throw their gun in the air, scream like a teenage girl and hide under a desk. He estimated that only a dozen people in the US wouldn't.

What I can't figure out then is where the military, police and security companies get all the people he does trust to have guns then

I wonder how many on this board know I'm a secret leftist....shhhhh.....And now you're lying.....I said a dozen teachers....and BTW, while you're shooting into the ceiling there's a round heading for your center-mass from some other hysterical woman who's decided she's as heroic as any man....that's what your kind of crazy begets...you simple bitch.

Well then, we would know that at least two teachers didn't freeze up, and one of them can shoot straight.

Tom thinks gun owners are all like Yosemite Sam.

And he doesn't want the certainty of a shooter pointing and firing over and over because if someone shots back there might be an accident. Tom's just trying to stop an innocent shooting from becoming a bad situation ...

 

[evenflow1969]

I KNOW more than a dozen people who would drop the hammer on a kid shooting up a school

A lot of people think they would, but until they are in the situation, nobody knows for sure.

True, no one knows for sure what they would do in an actual shooting situation, and that obviously includes police officers. But, we would be foolish to get rid of the police because they might freeze under fire. BTW, most of them don't freeze, and most of them have never been under fire before.

True, but in this case, four of the first four cops on the scene did freeze. I have good reason to believe I wouldn't that I'm not going to go into. But that working for the government is what determines if you'll freeze or not is silly.

And if an administrator with a gun did freeze. Sure, that means he's not shooting at the shooter, but that's worse than him not being there because ...

Ya, i know I would have gone in, likely for the wrong reasons. Right now a bullet seems better than another day with my finger up my ass. Fuck retirement, I understand why people die so quick after it, there is n o reason to get up. I am done with it. Now I just have to find some one to hire my old ass! Take my advise and die at your desk like my grandfather, he was happy till the day he died. Six months in and I can't take it any more, I gots to have some thing to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Gator's such an idiot.

People get CCs specifically to protect themselves. And they do, all the time. But for an admin or teacher to defend themselves and children, that's 24!!!!!

Golfing Gator would scream like a school girl and faint if she ever touched an actual gun

You are so darn cute when get all insulty!

I would be pretty darn happy to compare experience with weapons if you would like.

Tell me if you can answer yes to any of these questions, all of which are a yes for me.

1. Have you qualified with the M16 service rifle 13 times on the Marine Corps KD Course/

2. Have you qualified with the .45/9mm 17 times on the Marine Corps pistol range?

3. Were you ever certified as an instructor for the 4 automatic weapons used by the Marine Corps infantry..the SAW, the M-60, the .50 cal and the Mk19?

4. Have you ever walked a post with a loaded weapon in a location where there were people that wanted to kill you?

I will start with those 4, we can go on if you like. I am betting you are 0-4 on those.

 

[kaz]

Anybody who's been in close combat knows it ain't easy to pull a trigger on somebody else....they usually freeze and get the weapon taken away from them or worse. I prefer keeping the perp outside until security can be alerted or the cops get involved.

That is so amazingly ignorant. You watch too much TV. Yes, that happens, but there are a lot of heroic people out there who act when they see things like that happening. Like the football coach in Florida. Also the Southerland Springs shooting.

You should tell the military how ignorant it is, they spend a huge amount of time and money training people so they do not freeze up when the shit is real.

I think perhaps you are the one that watches way too much TV, the world is not like 24

Some still freeze! unfortunate but true.

Gator's such an idiot.

People get CCs specifically to protect themselves. And they do, all the time. But for an admin or teacher to defend themselves and children, that's 24!!!!!

Golfing Gator would scream like a school girl and faint if she ever touched an actual gun

What people do not understand about military training is that is a full emersion 24 hours a day for six months to a year depending MOS and still people freeze. Some idiot froze during the granade toss at my basic about killed him self and the drill sargent. I doubt those teachers are going to sign up for that type of trainig and the cost of such training is crazy high. Further more the military attract people with a violence leaning personaity. Most teachers do not have the type of personality needed for such a situation.

I don't accept your premise that whether you freeze or not depends on whether or not you work for the government, it doesn't.

That people who have received training still freeze is the make up of the person, not the existence of training.

Four cops who arrived on scene in Florida all froze.

At the Texas church shooting, the guy who got the shooter didn't and he wasn't military.

The gym teacher in Florida who died shielding kids with his body didn't freeze.

Freezing = government is a false equivalency.

And again, OK, so if an armed admin with a CC freezes. That leads to therefore administrators shouldn't be armed how exactly?

Based on CC rates in Florida, roughly 15 people would probably have been armed. If half of them froze (I doubt that would happen), that's still 7 or 8 armed people who didn't. How many lives would have been saved?

Probably the shooter wouldn't have gone there. He chose a gun free zone for a reason

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I don't accept your premise that whether you freeze or not depends on whether or not you work for the government, it doesn't.

I agree with you here, that is a silly premise.

 

[miketx]

First off, how does an Uber driver not notice a kid carrying a rifle in a soft case into a school? They say she has no culpability in this....really?

Dream journal?

Enjoys children being massacred.

 

[kaz]

Gator's such an idiot.

People get CCs specifically to protect themselves. And they do, all the time. But for an admin or teacher to defend themselves and children, that's 24!!!!!

Golfing Gator would scream like a school girl and faint if she ever touched an actual gun

You are so darn cute when get all insulty!

I would be pretty darn happy to compare experience with weapons if you would like.

Tell me if you can answer yes to any of these questions, all of which are a yes for me.

1. Have you qualified with the M16 service rifle 13 times on the Marine Corps KD Course/

2. Have you qualified with the .45/9mm 17 times on the Marine Corps pistol range?

3. Were you ever certified as an instructor for the 4 automatic weapons used by the Marine Corps infantry..the SAW, the M-60, the .50 cal and the Mk19?

4. Have you ever walked a post with a loaded weapon in a location where there were people that wanted to kill you?

I will start with those 4, we can go on if you like. I am betting you are 0-4 on those.

You're the one who said that my believing someone with a CC permit should be allowed to defend themselves is "24."

And of course you own guns. ALL leftists own guns. That's how you know they emanate evil. You're all Christians, you're all rich and just want to pay more taxes (but don't). You all used to be Republicans but left the party when the SCOTUS stopped Gore from stealing the election. In fact before 2000 there was no such thing as a Democrat. You were all Republicans

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You're the one who said that my believing someone with a CC permit should be allowed to defend themselves is "24."

I did not say that all. Why do you keep lying about me? Is that all you have left?

And of course you own guns. ALL leftists own guns. That's how you know they emanate evil.

You are the leftist, not me. We established that in a different thread.

By the way, you did not answer my 4 questions, have you done any of those things?

Have you ever fired a weapon that was not on Call of Duty?

Do you know what a real weapon looks like?

 

[kaz]

You're the one who said that my believing someone with a CC permit should be allowed to defend themselves is "24."

I did not say that all. Why do you keep lying about me? Is that all you have left?

And of course you own guns. ALL leftists own guns. That's how you know they emanate evil.

You are the leftist, not me. We established that in a different thread.

No, we established I'm the liberal and you're the leftist

By the way, you did not answer my 4 questions, have you done any of those things?

Have you ever fired a weapon that was not on Call of Duty?

Do you know what a real weapon looks like?

I rejected your deflection. Just FYI, I have a huge gun collection. I'm the oldest in my generation on both sides of my family and received guns going back to the civil war.

And again you can't make up your own arguments, you just repeat mine back to me.

kaz: you'd be afraid to shoot a gun

Geezing Gator: I got nothing. You'd be afraid to shoot a gun

This has nothing to do with the issue. I'm arguing FOR people with CCs to CC. Your argument is oh, you'd be afraid to shoot a gun (repeating what I said to you back to me). How does that even make sense?

And you think CC for self preservation is 24. My saying you'd be afraid to shoot a gun makes a lot of sense.

You're like arguing with my wife during one particular period a month. I don't argue back, I lay low ...

 

[Harpy Eagle]

No, we established I'm the liberal and you're the leftist

No, you are the leftist and I am the libertarian. Do try and keep up.

I rejected your deflection. Just FYI, I have a huge gun collection. I'm the oldest in my generation on both sides of my family and received guns going back to the civil war.

Well good for you, everyone needs a hobby.

This has nothing to do with the issue. I'm arguing FOR people with CCs to CC. Your argument is oh, you'd be afraid to shoot a gun (repeating what I said to you back to me). How does that even make sense?

please highlight where I said you would be afraid to shoot a gun.

And you think CC for self preservation is 24.

Except that I never said that...do try and quit lying for even just one post. Or is that too much to ask?

 

[kaz]

I rejected your deflection. Just FYI, I have a huge gun collection. I'm the oldest in my generation on both sides of my family and received guns going back to the civil war.

Well good for you, everyone needs a hobby

Typical. You ask a question then you're a dick when I answer it

---

please highlight where I said you would be afraid to shoot a gun

here you go

Have you ever fired a weapon that was not on Call of Duty?

---

And you think CC for self preservation is 24.

Except that I never said that...do try and quit lying for even just one post. Or is that too much to ask?

here you go

You should tell the military how ignorant it is, they spend a huge amount of time and money training people so they do not freeze up when the shit is real.

I think perhaps you are the one that watches way too much TV, the world is not like 24

 

[Papageorgio]

.

The teachers and administrators who are willing to get trained in gun safety will protect the school for free. Why waste all that money?

Anybody who's been in close combat knows it ain't easy to pull a trigger on somebody else....they usually freeze and get the weapon taken away from them or worse. I prefer keeping the perp outside until security can be alerted or the cops get involved.

That is so amazingly ignorant. You watch too much TV. Yes, that happens, but there are a lot of heroic people out there who act when they see things like that happening. Like the football coach in Florida. Also the Southerland Springs shooting.

That everyone is going to throw the gun in the air, scream like a teenage girl and hide under a desk and wait to be shot is BS. I grew up where many people hunted. They are the people you want to have guns.

Also, the idea is to have multiple people armed and the shooter to not know who they are.

Gawd, we shouldn't let anyone have a gun to defend themselves because they'll freeze!

BTW, what different would the gunman taking the weapon away do? It would have been better, frankly. Smaller caliber, slower to aim and shoot

You bring up a good point.

I would hesitate to pull a trigger, I’d shoot to wound and not kill, both bad for a gun owner, that is me, however I know of people that would not think twice about pulling a trigger to protect others.

Everyone is different in their thinking and thought process, the teachers need to look within and if they want to arm themselves, fine, if not fine.

Not everyone is alike and not everyone thinks the same, the idea that we need to force everyone to one view is ignorant. Thanks for seeing both sides.

 

[Moonglow]

I understand one of his fellow travellers is tryiing to drag the Chicago Cubs into it now. Or at least their first baseman.

Speaking of Wrigley Field, did somebody have a dream that Barry got tossed out of AF One over Chicago and got stuck in the ivy?

Those are flowers from Hawaii, Chicago and Washington DC..

 

[Moonglow]

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I rejected your deflection. Just FYI, I have a huge gun collection. I'm the oldest in my generation on both sides of my family and received guns going back to the civil war.

Well good for you, everyone needs a hobby

Typical. You ask a question then you're a dick when I answer it

---

please highlight where I said you would be afraid to shoot a gun

here you go

Have you ever fired a weapon that was not on Call of Duty?

---

And you think CC for self preservation is 24.

Except that I never said that...do try and quit lying for even just one post. Or is that too much to ask?

here you go

You should tell the military how ignorant it is, they spend a huge amount of time and money training people so they do not freeze up when the shit is real.

I think perhaps you are the one that watches way too much TV, the world is not like 24

thank for the quotes proving you lied about me

First, I asked if you had ever fried gun, I said nothing about you being afraid to.

Second, my 24 comment was directed at your suggestions that military training is not useful, not about you and your CC