The Second Coming Has Come

[Hollie]

Aside from guno, I'm not sure there's a more angry, vituperative or scary anti-Christian bigot on this site, than Hollie.

You're sure of many things which are false, pointless and indefensible.

 

[koshergrl]

Not at all.

 

[hotpotato]

♫ I have a dream, a fantasy
To help me through reality
And my destination makes it worth the while
Pushing through the darkness still another mile
I believe in angels
Something good in everything I see
I believe in angels
When I know the time is right for me
I'll cross the stream, I have a dream ♫

 

[Avatar4321]

the wicked being on fire is probably a good indication that Christ has returned

Yep. The God of love and mercy who is the means to inflict pain and suffering on behalf of all you hateful religious cranks.

you mean justice? Only those who are guilty need fear it.

so why remain guilty when you can be made free and innocent.

and bringing justice to evil people is merciful to good people.

 

[Care4all]

False Christs Arising Worldwide Claiming to Be Second Coming of Jesus Christian News Network

If every supposed 2nd coming is rejected, at what point do you finally accept one in particular? And isn't it likely if ever Jesus did return his olive colored skin would result in a bit of doubt?

People who think He has returned, have not studied the Bible, and are not standing on a foundation on rock, but on sand....

Jesus warned of the false prophets that would come in His name...and said unless we met Him in the clouds, it would not be Him, basically. So, the Bible says He is returning from clouds, from the sky, from the Heavens...this time, and won't be born of a virgin, on Earth as the first time.

And many of the signs He told as needing to take place before his return, have NOT ALL taken place.... i.e. the Temple has not been rebuilt in Jerusalem yet, and other prophesies have not been fulfilled yet that are mentioned in the New Testament... the Great Earthquake, bigger than any earthquake ever imaginable....and an asteroid hit by ''wormwood''....which could be the cause of the earthquake, I dunno? Worldwide starvation, with the wealthy and greedy feasting.... plagues in various places, 2/3's of drinking water destroyed, 2/3's of the fish in the sea to die etc etc etc....an antiChrist whom the whole world reveres, even some of the very elect....

Much has not been accomplished yet, of the signs and prophesies in the Christian Bible.

Japan's earthquake a while back that caused the meltdowns was 9.1. Not the biggest ever, that was off Chile at 9.5.

Way cxorporations control everything especially food, worldwide famine doesn't seem impossible. Local area famines all the time. With the wealth corps 'feasting.'

Ebola plague outbreak going on now is alarming some.

Drinking water is being polluted or bought outright. Oceans becommming so polluted die-offs are routine.

Oh my gosh! It's the end of the world! I believe I believe!

Probably shouldn't be tempting fate before going out with my Mom. Not the best driver in the world...

but did you see Christ descending from the clouds? Did these others following their false prophets see them descend from the clouds?

Oh, that greatest earthquake of all times takes place in Israel, but felt throughout the world....

 

[rdean]

And He'll cleanse the temple that has yet to be built.........

He's a janitor?

 

[rdean]

Second coming? At my age, the first one is hard enough.

 

[shart_attack]

False Christs Arising Worldwide Claiming to Be Second Coming of Jesus Christian News Network

If every supposed 2nd coming is rejected, at what point do you finally accept one in particular? And isn't it likely if ever Jesus did return his olive colored skin would result in a bit of doubt?

People who think He has returned, have not studied the Bible, and are not standing on a foundation on rock, but on sand....

Jesus warned of the false prophets that would come in His name...and said unless we met Him in the clouds, it would not be Him, basically. So, the Bible says He is returning from clouds, from the sky, from the Heavens...this time, and won't be born of a virgin, on Earth as the first time.

And many of the signs He told as needing to take place before his return, have NOT ALL taken place.... i.e. the Temple has not been rebuilt in Jerusalem yet, and other prophesies have not been fulfilled yet that are mentioned in the New Testament... the Great Earthquake, bigger than any earthquake ever imaginable....and an asteroid hit by ''wormwood''....which could be the cause of the earthquake, I dunno? Worldwide starvation, with the wealthy and greedy feasting.... plagues in various places, 2/3's of drinking water destroyed, 2/3's of the fish in the sea to die etc etc etc....an antiChrist whom the whole world reveres, even some of the very elect....

Much has not been accomplished yet, of the signs and prophesies in the Christian Bible.

Japan's earthquake a while back that caused the meltdowns was 9.1. Not the biggest ever, that was off Chile at 9.5.

Way cxorporations control everything especially food, worldwide famine doesn't seem impossible. Local area famines all the time. With the wealth corps 'feasting.'

Ebola plague outbreak going on now is alarming some.

Drinking water is being polluted or bought outright. Oceans becommming so polluted die-offs are routine.

Oh my gosh! It's the end of the world! I believe I believe!

Probably shouldn't be tempting fate before going out with my Mom. Not the best driver in the world...

You prolly shouldn't quit your day job, either.

Just sayin'.

 

[ninja007]

Most people confuse the Second Coming with the Pretribulation Rapture. The Pretrib Rapture is imminent- could happen any day. But Jesus doesn't come to earth. He calls His Bride (the Church; OT Saints and Believer's who are alive), to be CAUGHT UP WITH HIM IN THE AIR. At least 7 plus years AFTER the Rapture Jesus returns WITH HIS SAINTS and steps foot on earth (The Mount of Olives) with us to defeat Israel's and God's enemies.

Then the 1,000 Year reign of Jesus on the New Earth. Then the Judgment of Unbeliever's after that (Great White Throne Judgment).

 

[shart_attack]

I was brought up to believe in The Rapture, myself.

I really don't anymore, though.

The idea of dispensationalism isn't yet even 200 years old — not that that means anything in particular.

But I'm not sure anymore that a mere two verses in the New Testament prove that there will be any sort of "secret rapture".

The Christians who were alive in Christ's day—and in the subsequent years of the Roman Empire just after He died and was resurrected—were true Christians to the core.

They suffered for their beliefs, and were tortured and murdered for them.

Why should today's so-called Christians believe that we should receive any less harsh treatment during this planet's final days?

HEBREWS CHAPTER 12

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"The Second Coming Has Come"

Actually not – given the fact there was no 'first coming.'

 

[ninja007]

I was brought up to believe in The Rapture, myself.

I really don't anymore, though.

The idea of dispensationalism isn't yet even 200 years old — not that that means anything in particular.

But I'm not sure anymore that a mere two verses in the New Testament prove that there will be any sort of "secret rapture".

The Christians who were alive in Christ's day—and in the subsequent years of the Roman Empire just after He died and was resurrected—were true Christians to the core.

They suffered for their beliefs, and were tortured and murdered for them.

Why should today's so-called Christians believe that we should receive any less harsh treatment during this planet's final days?

HEBREWS CHAPTER 12

actually thats a lie and common misconception...... heres a link....


The Margaret MacDonald Origin

One of the most widely circulated attacks against the pre-trib rapture is the notion that a girl named Margaret MacDonald started this theological view back in 1830. The claim is typically made that MacDonald received a demonic vision, passed it on to John Darby, who in turn popularized it. Disproving this assertion proves rather easy. Pre-trib scholars have discovered a host of rapture writings that predate Margaret MacDonald.

Epharaem the Syrian said, in 373 AD, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

One post-trib author offered a reward to anyone who could find a quote that predated MacDonald. He had to quickly cough up the money when someone identified a scholar who wrote about the pre-trib rapture several years before MacDonald. As of late, dozens of examples have been found, and the literary surface has hardly been scratched.

With the revealing of all these pre-MacDonald writings, you would think that this argument has been debunked. Unfortunately, this is not the case. We seem to be involved in a tug-of-war with the truth. Apparently, due to their lack of research, pre-trib opponents continue to pump out publications that cite MacDonald as the originator of the pre-trib rapture.


Defending The Pre-trib Rapture

 

[ninja007]

you need to realize what is the purpose of the tribulation- to punish unbelievers and bring Israel back to God. Believers are the Bride of Christ. Our wedding is in Heaven before the start of the trib. Please read that link.

 

[ninja007]

I was brought up to believe in The Rapture, myself.

I really don't anymore, though.

The idea of dispensationalism isn't yet even 200 years old — not that that means anything in particular.

But I'm not sure anymore that a mere two verses in the New Testament prove that there will be any sort of "secret rapture".

The Christians who were alive in Christ's day—and in the subsequent years of the Roman Empire just after He died and was resurrected—were true Christians to the core.

They suffered for their beliefs, and were tortured and murdered for them.

Why should today's so-called Christians believe that we should receive any less harsh treatment during this planet's final days?

HEBREWS CHAPTER 12

the rapture isn;'t secret and yes, Christians all over the world ARE BEING killed every single day. But because we are in the end times, the very next prophetic event is the rapture. If you like I can PM you some material. Either way- it isn't a salvation issue- However we receive a Crown to lay at Jesus' feet- those of us who watch for His appearing.

 

[ninja007]

Start Of The Tribulation

First, we need to know that the tribulation in Bible prophecy is the period of time that begins with the signing of a covenant between Israel and the antichrist and ends seven years later at the second coming of Jesus Christ. The most extensive biblical comments on the tribulation are found in the writings of John, specifically in Revelation 6- 19. In these chapters, John provides a detailed exposition of the tribulation days. Daniel' s "70 weeks," prophesied in Daniel 9:24-27 are the framework within which the tribulation or the 70th week occurs. The seven-year period of Daniel's 70th week provides the time span with which a whole host of descriptives are associated. Some of those descriptive terms include: tribulation, great tribulation, day of the Lord, day of wrath, day of distress, day of trouble, time of Jacob's trouble, day of darkness and gloom, and wrath of the Lamb.

Judgment Nature Of The Tribulation

Second, God's basic purpose for the tribulation is that it be a time of judgment, while at the same time, He will hold forth the gospel of grace. This will precede Christ's glorious 1,000 year reign from David's throne in Jerusalem. Judgment, or God' s wrath, is needed to put down the rebellion of mankind in preparation for Christ' s reign of peace upon earth during the millennium.

The Goals Of The Tribulation

Third, while a number of goals for the tribulation could be given, there are a least three specific major purposes. Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum lists them as follows:

Gentile Judgment

Before the Lord can personally rule on earth in the Person of Jesus Christ He must first judge the world in order to prepare it for His righteous rule. Dr. Fruchtenbaum says that the first purpose for the tribulation is,

• To make an end of wickedness and wicked ones (Isaiah 13:9; 24:19-20)- The first purpose for the tribulation is seen to be a punishment in history upon the whole world for its sins against God, in a way similar to that of the global flood in Noah's days (Matthew 24:37-39).[1]

Deuteronomy 30:7 tells us that God will " inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you." This will take place during the tribulation and will be retribution to the nations for how they have treated the Jews during the last 2,000 years. This purpose does not encompass the church.

World-Wide Evangelism

The seven-year tribulation will be a time of phenomenal evangelistic outreach. It will be a time unlike any previous period of history. Dr. Fruchtenbaum explains:

• To bring about a world-wide revival- This purpose is given and fulfilled in Revelation 7:1-17. During the first half of the tribulation, God will evangelize the world by the means of the 144,000 Jews and thus fulfill the prophecy found in Matthew 24:14.[2]

In addition to the 144,000 Jewish evangelists, there will be normal evangelism taking place like we see today. Further, the Two Witnesses will provide an evangelistic witness to Israel. Finally, at the mid-point of the tribulation Revelation 14 tells us that God Himself will use angels to preach the gospel and warn " earth dwellers" not to take the mark of the beast- 666.

The three angelic announcements are as follows: First, an angel will preach " an eternal gospel . . . to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people" (Revelation 14:6). Second, the next angel will make the following pronouncement: " Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality" (Revelation 14:8). Finally, the last angelic proclamation will specifically warn every person on earth not to take the mark of the beast, since doing so will result in their eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire. " If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand . . . he will be tormented with fire and brimstone . . . forever and ever" (Revelation 14:9- 11). This tribulation purpose also does not include the church.

Conversion of Israel

One of the most glorious and important purposes of the tribulation will be the conversion of Israel. Dr. Fruchtenbaum tell us,

• To break the power of the holy people- Israel- Finally, the tribulation will be a time in which God, through evil agencies, prepares Israel for her conversion and acknowledgment that Jesus is their Messiah, resulting in the second coming of Christ.[3]



The Bible teaches us that God will use the tribulation to bring His elect people to faith in Jesus as their Messiah. When we put together the biblical information it appears that God will accomplish this goal in the following way: First, the Lord will return Israel to the land before the tribulation, the time of God' s wrath. " I shall bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you are scattered, with a mighty hand and with an outstretched arm and with wrath poured out (Ezekiel 20:34). The regathering before the tribulation is what our Lord has been doing since 1948 with the modern state of Israel.

Once the tribulation begins He " shall make you pass under the rod, and I shall bring you into the bond of the covenant; and I shall purge from you the rebels and those who transgress against Me; I shall bring them out of the land where they sojourn, but they will not enter the land of Israel. Thus you will know that I am the Lord" (Ezekiel 20:37- 38). This tells us that the unbelieving Jews (" the rebels" ) will be removed during the tribulation.

In an interesting passage that speaks of " My Associate," which is an obvious prophetic reference to Jesus The Messiah (Zechariah 13:7- 9), Zechariah gives us a numeric ratio that will be purged. " And it will come about in all the land," Declares the Lord, " That two parts in it will be cut off and perish; But the third will be left in it. And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, ' They are My people,' And they will say, ' The Lord is my God.' " (Zechariah 13:8- 9) Therefore, we learn that two-thirds of Israel will be purged through the fire of the tribulation, leaving the one-third elect who will be converted to Jesus as their Messiah. Thus, " all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, ' The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins' " (Romans 11:26- 27). What a glorious day that will be! Israel will be converted to Jesus as their Messiah resulting in the second coming, which will in turn give rise the millennial reign of Christ. The church is no where to be found in these tribulational activities.





Conclusion

While many people think the tribulation will involve the church, the Bible does not provide support for such a notion. Instead, Scripture informs us of at least a three-fold purpose for the coming tribulation, none of which involves the church. The New Testament teaches that the church will be taken at the rapture to be with the Lord before the tribulation begins, because God has not destined His bride for His wrath (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 5:9; Revelation 3:10). Other groups of redeemed individuals will go through the tribulation, but not Christ' s bride, the church. Maranatha!


The Thomas Ice Collection

 

[Care4all]

Ephraem- did he mention the rapture....?

http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/eq/2008-2_143.pdf

 

[Avatar4321]

And He'll cleanse the temple that has yet to be built.........

He's a janitor?

you act like janitors are bad. It's honorable work. Showing your disdain for honest hard working people again?

 

[Politico]

False Christs Arising Worldwide Claiming to Be Second Coming of Jesus Christian News Network

If every supposed 2nd coming is rejected, at what point do you finally accept one in particular? And isn't it likely if ever Jesus did return his olive colored skin would result in a bit of doubt?

When one actually happens.

 

[Hollie]

the wicked being on fire is probably a good indication that Christ has returned

Yep. The God of love and mercy who is the means to inflict pain and suffering on behalf of all you hateful religious cranks.

you mean justice? Only those who are guilty need fear it.

so why remain guilty when you can be made free and innocent.

and bringing justice to evil people is merciful to good people.

Right. And of course you count yourself among those "free and innocent" who have an entitlement to get some sick pleasure out of watching your gods burn those who don't accept your "believe as I do or burn in hell", compulsion.

I see your condition as an illness, nothing more.

 

[Avatar4321]

the wicked being on fire is probably a good indication that Christ has returned

Yep. The God of love and mercy who is the means to inflict pain and suffering on behalf of all you hateful religious cranks.

you mean justice? Only those who are guilty need fear it.

so why remain guilty when you can be made free and innocent.

and bringing justice to evil people is merciful to good people.

Right. And of course you count yourself among those "free and innocent" who have an entitlement to get some sick pleasure out of watching your gods burn those who don't accept your "believe as I do or burn in hell", compulsion.

I see your condition as an illness, nothing more.

who on earth gets any pleasure in seeing a brother destroyed??? There is a reason many are trying to persuade you to repentance. We don't want you to destroy yourself when all you have to do is look to Christ and live.

but you seem to be under the false impression that holding evil people accountable for their actions is mean or unkind. It's quite merciful. Not only to those who are hurt by their actions but for the person themselves. Only by being held accountable can we learn from our actions.

let go of your pride. Seek to learn of God. He will teach you if you let Him.