The sin of gluttony

[The Irish Ram]

It started out as more of an issue concerning Jewish law and if we are obligated to keep it. It has long since morphed into a "prove it" thread. I hope no one is offended about the blame flinging between the Jews and the Romans, but ancient records can help bring to life what transpired during those days, and lend credence to our Biblical accounts for non believers.

I thought it started out mentioning that Christians pick and choose which sins to be concerned about. No one asked anyone to prove a damn thing. I pointed out some issues the foundation of the whole thing is built on. And you keep coming up with vague or fraudulent evidence. You don't have to prove anything because you can't. It isn't called a faith for no reason.

No need to get testy. Get knowledge. You asked for a Jewish account, you got one. You asked for Jesus preaching to Gentiles, you got it. You can lead a horse to water..........

There is nothing vague about the word for word account of the trial of Christ. Nor is it fraudulent, Nor embellished from year to year, or a conspiracy by everyone on both sides of the fence in that era.
You can drink the water or not. That you believe that Josephus is the only historian that ever told the truth is your issue.

 

[koshergrl]

IR, your responses are a lot more intelligent and thoughtful than any of the idiotic spoutings of the OP, or any of the other religion forum trolls who jumped in, deserve.

It's a waste of breath. She started the thread with what she thought was a clever bait thread...why Christians are fat, and hypocritical, based on the fact they're fat.

It's just another anti-Christian propaganda meme. That's what this site exists to support, and it's what they provide.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Wease is off Googling. Thanks for the support Kosh. I just look at baiting as an opportunity to present a view that may have been overlooked or may be unknown to the baiter.
Love to you. And thanks for the kind critique.

 

[Iceweasel]

You have yet to question the veracity of what Josephus recorded, yet, Nicodemus, Pilate, Ananias, all liars and frauds. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

You're full of it. I did say the addition to Josephus was fraudulent. And it isn't me deciding, it's people who do this stuff for a living. That's why I post links and you don't.

What is a stretch is believing that everyone who put pen to parchment back then was suspect if they mentioned Christ. And, the lack of real time dispute over what Nicodemus, the best of the best, recorded. It's not, "Did Matthew or Mark really say that", it is, "Did Matthew, Mark, John, Ananias, Nicodemus, Roman soldiers, and Pilate actually say it".

I believe that Ananias did search for and find the records of the trial, and that the records were submitted in Hebrew to the court. That he transferred them into Greek because not many know Hebrew is of no consequence concerning their validity. That does not make it a new document, but an old document to be read in a different language.

And I believe as you say, the Jews kept fastidious records. And Nicodemus was too well thought of by all, not to be as fastidious as he was. The fact that his dictation was handed into the record of the Temple and the Roman court in real time, with no objections accompanying them tells me they were accepted by both. Jew and Gentile.

You may accept them if you wish or discard them as fraudulent. All the people mentioned had reason to defy what was recorded. Instead they excused their part in it.

You "sniped" the Jewish document you clamored for and insisted no one recorded in the first place.

I don't need to post links to anything. As soon as I provide the text, you run to Google it to acquaint yourself with the information and find a way to discredit it. As long as you are willing to do the leg work for me, I'm good with that. Now that you know about the Acts of Pilate, Google the Gospel of Nicodemus. As of yesterday you didn't even know that a Jew did record the event. Or that Jesus was mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

So read what Nicodemus wrote and then come back and tell me why Ananias lied about what Nicodemus was apparently lying about........ lol.

Then Google Ezekiel's tablets.
The only thing left is to decide for yourself whether the records are valid or if they all risked their lives to lie in unison.

I snipped you insane wall of text but it's still there in your post if anyone wants to spend the day. What does reposting it do? I quoted an authoritative source, go read it instead of burying your head. Lot's of Muslims die for their beliefs, I guess that makes it more true than contemporary Christianity.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The people reporting what transpired were the ones that committed the crime! Odd that those Jews just didn't say, "What Jesus? Where?" And Pilate and the Roman Guards, too. "Jesus who? What tomb? What hush money?"

While you in 2014, question the very existence of Christ, they did not. You lack faith. They had eyeballs. I trust them more than you. They had their lives to lose and nothing to gain by detailing their roles in the matter.

Weasie, believe what you want. That Christ lived and died just like they and my Bible says is what I'm sticking with. We will just have to agree to disagree on the living breathing Jesus, the Son of God.
Until you meet Him yourself, here's hoping He blesses you in advance.

 

[bedowin62]

who the eff are you to dictate what is "glutonous"
and what isn't?

you can get killed for your I-pod on the streets of any liberal-run city

libs are asinine hypocrites

 

[The Irish Ram]

While I agree with your assessment of the liberal, (she said tongue in cheek) are you effing me???

 

[emilynghiem]

I think it is related to the commandment
"thou shalt not COVET"
If over or undereating is a CONTROL issue, then people are CRAVING something
and it is being taken out or expressed in their eating habits.

In Buddhism it is not being ATTACHED to MATERIAL DESIRES
where we depend on physical conditions to substitute for making peace internally.

the point is to seek peace/satisfaction spiritually by the right reasons and ways.
and not fall to material conditions to determine our happiness or suffering in life.

Question: "Is gluttony a sin? What does the Bible say about overeating?"

Answer: Gluttony seems to be a sin that Christians like to ignore. We are often quick to label smoking and drinking as sins, but for some reason gluttony is accepted or at least tolerated. Many of the arguments used against smoking and drinking, such as health and addiction, apply equally to overeating. Many believers would not even consider having a glass of wine or smoking a cigarette but have no qualms about gorging themselves at the dinner table. This should not be!

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.” Proverbs 28:7 declares, “He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.” Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, “Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.”

Read more: Is gluttony a sin? What does the Bible say about overeating?

Interestingly, people who call themselves Christians have all kinds of fits about people committing sins, all kinds of sins including drinking and smoking. Ironically, gluttony is also a sin, but Christian folks seem to ignore that sin: they are as over weight as anyone else and show no indication that they are sinning. Why is that? A sin is a sin isn't it?

 

[bedowin62]

people who are rich aren't coveting anything; they are getting their own

people who are JEALOUS OF THEM AND WANT TO TAKE WHAT THEY HAVE
are the ones coveting

 

[emilynghiem]

who the eff are you to dictate what is "glutonous"
and what isn't?

you can get killed for your I-pod on the streets of any liberal-run city

libs are asinine hypocrites

it is relative.

there are people who are dependent or addicted to
overeating or undereating
working too much or not working at all
being poor (pauper addictions) or being rich (gambling or other addictions)

there are many ways to be gluttonous, extreme, addictive or
otherwise "unnatural or unhealthy" in whatever we do, any number of areas

you can be as specific as you want, or as broad and general.
And still be talking about the same causes of "imbalanced" behavior or attitudes

 

[bedowin62]

who the eff are you to dictate what is "glutonous"
and what isn't?

you can get killed for your I-pod on the streets of any liberal-run city

libs are asinine hypocrites

it is relative.

there are people who are dependent or addicted to
overeating or undereating
working too much or not working at all
being poor (pauper addictions) or being rich (gambling or other addictions)

there are many ways to be gluttonous, extreme, addictive or
otherwise "unnatural or unhealthy" in whatever we do, any number of areas

you can be as specific as you want, or as broad and general.
And still be talking about the same causes of "imbalanced" behavior or attitudes

I'm amazed at the way some self-impressed morons here can say a whole bunch of nothing and consider it relevant

 

[emilynghiem]

people who are rich aren't coveting anything; they are getting their own

people who are JEALOUS OF THEM AND WANT TO TAKE WHAT THEY HAVE
are the ones coveting

YES coveting is not just about physical or material level things
you can be jealous and covet other people's success, their freedom, their lack of stress in life
EXACTLY

so people should be clear what exactly they are trying to criticize
because excessive addictive or obsessive attitudes can manifest in any number of ways
from one extreme to the other

coveting control can lead someone to anorexia or bulimia which is the opposite of
overeating. it is still driven by guilt, fear, PHOBIA, or some other control/anxiety issue

And if it is not someone's fault they can't control a mental condition,
then what good is it to JUDGE them for their obsession or phobia?
the therapies I have seen work to free people of these addictions
all work by FORGIVENESS and healing, not judgment criticism or coercion

so many of these extreme or addictive patterns come from unresolved or
unforgiven issues carried from the past, some unconsciously, so it takes
an open approach to healing, forgiveness and unconditional support to
identify and remove the root cause, and break or reverse that cycle of abuse.

 

[bedowin62]

people who are rich aren't coveting anything; they are getting their own

people who are JEALOUS OF THEM AND WANT TO TAKE WHAT THEY HAVE
are the ones coveting

YES coveting is not just about physical or material level things
you can be jealous and covet other people's success, their freedom, their lack of stress in life
EXACTLY

so people should be clear what exactly they are trying to criticize
because excessive addictive or obsessive attitudes can manifest in any number of ways
from one extreme to the other

coveting control can lead someone to anorexia or bulimia which is the opposite of
overeating. it is still driven by guilt, fear, PHOBIA, or some other control/anxiety issue

And if it is not someone's fault they can't control a mental condition,
then what good is it to JUDGE them for their obsession or phobia?
the therapies I have seen work to free people of these addictions
all work by FORGIVENESS and healing, not judgment criticism or coercion

so many of these extreme or addictive patterns come from unresolved or
unforgiven issues carried from the past, some unconsciously, so it takes
an open approach to healing, forgiveness and unconditional support to
identify and remove the root cause, and break or reverse that cycle of abuse.

yawn

is this what a liberal arts education gets you?
a degree in psychology?

incoherent and irrelevant ramblings on message boards?

 

[emilynghiem]

who the eff are you to dictate what is "glutonous"
and what isn't?

you can get killed for your I-pod on the streets of any liberal-run city

libs are asinine hypocrites

it is relative.

there are people who are dependent or addicted to
overeating or undereating
working too much or not working at all
being poor (pauper addictions) or being rich (gambling or other addictions)

there are many ways to be gluttonous, extreme, addictive or
otherwise "unnatural or unhealthy" in whatever we do, any number of areas

you can be as specific as you want, or as broad and general.
And still be talking about the same causes of "imbalanced" behavior or attitudes

I'm amazed at the way some self-impressed morons here can say a whole bunch of nothing and consider it relevant

well, if you insist on imposing your own perceptions and judgments
on people, i cannot help you

I was actually agreeing with you on the points you brought up that should be clarified

sorry my language is too obtuse for you
no offense intended, I was trying to lend support
where I agreed clarification is needed
because it is "relative"
that's all

 

[bedowin62]

it is relative.

there are people who are dependent or addicted to
overeating or undereating
working too much or not working at all
being poor (pauper addictions) or being rich (gambling or other addictions)

there are many ways to be gluttonous, extreme, addictive or
otherwise "unnatural or unhealthy" in whatever we do, any number of areas

you can be as specific as you want, or as broad and general.
And still be talking about the same causes of "imbalanced" behavior or attitudes

I'm amazed at the way some self-impressed morons here can say a whole bunch of nothing and consider it relevant

well, if you insist on imposing your own perceptions and judgments
on people, i cannot help you

I was actually agreeing with you on the points you brought up that should be clarified

sorry my language is too obtuse for you
no offense intended, I was trying to lend support
where I agreed clarification is needed
because it is "relative"
that's all

that's just it; I didn't ask you to "help me"

 

[bedowin62]

and i'm not "imposing" anything
I gave my opinion of your idiotic ramblings

but if you need to feel persecuted.........................

 

[emilynghiem]

people who are rich aren't coveting anything; they are getting their own

people who are JEALOUS OF THEM AND WANT TO TAKE WHAT THEY HAVE
are the ones coveting

YES coveting is not just about physical or material level things
you can be jealous and covet other people's success, their freedom, their lack of stress in life
EXACTLY

so people should be clear what exactly they are trying to criticize
because excessive addictive or obsessive attitudes can manifest in any number of ways
from one extreme to the other

coveting control can lead someone to anorexia or bulimia which is the opposite of
overeating. it is still driven by guilt, fear, PHOBIA, or some other control/anxiety issue

And if it is not someone's fault they can't control a mental condition,
then what good is it to JUDGE them for their obsession or phobia?
the therapies I have seen work to free people of these addictions
all work by FORGIVENESS and healing, not judgment criticism or coercion

so many of these extreme or addictive patterns come from unresolved or
unforgiven issues carried from the past, some unconsciously, so it takes
an open approach to healing, forgiveness and unconditional support to
identify and remove the root cause, and break or reverse that cycle of abuse.

yawn

is this what a liberal arts education gets you?
a degree in psychology?

incoherent and irrelevant ramblings on message boards?

No, I learned about spiritual healing of addiction and abuse outside of college
and no, this isn't taught or researched as it should be.

As for psychology, I did take a class on memory and perception, and how people
learn and recall by association.

Most of what goes on online on these forums is
PROJECTION

Such as you already assuming what I am about and PROJECTING on me.

So if you were as interested as I am in how perception and biases work,
you might follow this process to see if your perception changes and why.

I found out that biases depend on what we FORGIVE or DON'T FORGIVE
in the past, so that we cloud our judgment emotionally when we assess
things in the present or future. That is why people on forums tend to
PROJECT onto other people, depending what biases and issues they bring to the table.

Do you care at all about this?
Or does it make you yawn?

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm amazed at the way some self-impressed morons here can say a whole bunch of nothing and consider it relevant

well, if you insist on imposing your own perceptions and judgments
on people, i cannot help you

I was actually agreeing with you on the points you brought up that should be clarified

sorry my language is too obtuse for you
no offense intended, I was trying to lend support
where I agreed clarification is needed
because it is "relative"
that's all

that's just it; I didn't ask you to "help me"

if you didn't want a response to your message
what did you want

if you wanted a response to your message
what did you want

I will try to stick to what you want
I was just responding with my
thoughts that came to mind

sorry if I missed the mark

I certainly did not mean to offend you, my apologies
for coming across as a "liberal whatever" you must think I represent

 

[Iceweasel]

The people reporting what transpired were the ones that committed the crime! Odd that those Jews just didn't say, "What Jesus? Where?" And Pilate and the Roman Guards, too. "Jesus who? What tomb? What hush money?"

While you in 2014, question the very existence of Christ, they did not. You lack faith. They had eyeballs. I trust them more than you. They had their lives to lose and nothing to gain by detailing their roles in the matter.

Weasie, believe what you want. That Christ lived and died just like they and my Bible says is what I'm sticking with. We will just have to agree to disagree on the living breathing Jesus, the Son of God.
Until you meet Him yourself, here's hoping He blesses you in advance.

....and yet, still no link. Your "sources" were not authentic. Odd that your faith relies of apocryphal works written in the middle of the fourth century.

Here's another source that discredits the authenticity:

en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia_(1913)/Acta_Pilati
Acta Pilati (or Gospel of Nicodemus).—This work does not assume to have written by Pilate, but to have been derived from the official acts preserved in the prætorium at Jerusalem. The alleged Hebrew original is attributed to Nicodemus. The title "Gospel of Nicodemus" is of medieval origin.

The apocryphon gained wide credit in the Middle Ages, and has considerably affected the legends of our Saviour's Passion. Its popularity is attested by the number of languages in which it exists, each of these being represented by two or more recensions. We possess a text in Greek, the original language; a Coptic, an Armenian and a Latin, besides modern translations. The Latin versions were naturally its most current form and were printed several times in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. One class of the Latin manuscripts contain as an appendix or continuation, the "Cura Sanitatis Tiberii", the oldest form of the Veronica legend.

 

[emilynghiem]

and i'm not "imposing" anything
I gave my opinion of your idiotic ramblings

but if you need to feel persecuted.........................

no i don't feel persecuted
this is a free forum with free speech
and I respect everyone's free speech on here
that's what it's for

if you were assuming I felt persecuted
then yes that WAS imposing/projecting your opinion

if you were just "expressing" your best guess or opinion
then no you were not projecting but your guess/opinion was wrong