The Tax Case Against Donald Trump

[Fort Fun Indiana]

meaner gene consider Leona Helmsley.

Sure, it was damning in the court of public opinion, when the contractors on whom she defaulted went public with the documents of the scheme and said she directed their actions in their participation.

But Rudy secured that conviction on the documents. Leona tried to plead ignorance and innocent error. Didn't work.

 

[easyt65]

Arresting Snipes was so....racist.

 

[surada]

Meanwhile Vance got Trump’s tax records like 3 months ago and produced an indictment.

What’s your excuse?

Vance has shit. not worth the paper he's working from. your excuse is orangeman bad, six years now. and still zip. Excuse me if I don't just piss on the story of orangeman bad for the 10,000 time.

BTW, are you saying the IRS sucks? hahahahahahahahahahahaha

They couldn't indicte a sitting president. Trump has always been a crook .. Don't be so puffed up.

they aren't now.

Trump paid some huge fines for money laundering when he was in the Casino business.

FinCEN Fines Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort $10 Million for Significant and Long Standing Anti-Money Laundering Violations | FinCEN.gov

www.fincen.gov

Mar 06, 2015 · March 06, 2015. WASHINGTON, DC – The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today imposed a $10 million civil money penalty against Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort (Trump Taj Mahal), for willful and repeated violations of the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA).

In addition to the civil money penalty, the casino is required to conduct periodic external audits to examine its anti-money laundering (AML) BSA compliance program and provide those audit reports to FinCEN and the casino’s …

 

[meaner gene]

Cohen? The jailbird who committed perjury TWICE under oath before Congress - 1 time which led to his conviction & the 2nd time on his way to prison for his previous perjury?1

Bwuhahahahaha

The problem is that Cohen lied about Trump. Such as claiming that Trump didn't have plans for a Trump tower in Russia while running for president.

Think about it. Cohen was caught lying for the purpose of protecting Trump. That doesn't bode well for Trump.

 

[bripat9643]

Tax evasion is when you knowingly engage in fraudulent activities in order to avoid taxes. Making a mistake is a common occurrence but the things the Trump organization did cannot be portrayed as anything other than willful, knowing tax fraud.

Correct. And they kept internal records, apparently. Like they didn't even care that they were breaking the law. The brazenness and sheer stupidity of it is surprising. I understand the Trump family is comprised of morons with no knowledge of or respect for the law, but i would expect better from an accountant who knows the rules. I would expect at least an attempt to cover up the crimes, in case anyone came looking. But then again, we know the level of character of the people the Trumps surround themselves with.

Don't all companies keep "internal records?"

Internal books, sure. But two sets in order to cover up tax evasion? No.

Now.......cry.

The indictment doesn't mention two sets of books, moron.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Trump paid some huge fines for money laundering when he was in the Casino business.

Yep. So it is also established fact that Trump Org owned properties have laundered money.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The indictement doesn't mention two sets

Do not feed this troll in this thread. No, it will not make any difference if you slap him over the head with the exact quotes from the indictment which allege this.

 

[surada]

Trump Taj Mahal casino settles U.S. money laundering claims

The parent of Trump Taj Mahal, one of Atlantic City, New Jersey's struggling casinos, has settled U.S. government charges that it violated federal laws designed to thwart money laundering, court filings show.

www.reuters.com

 

[surada]

Trump paid some huge fines for money laundering when he was in the Casino business.

Yep. So it is also established fact that Trump Org owned properties have laundered money.

Yep.. He did ..and recently too. in 2015.

Trump is 'owned by Putin' and has been 'laundering money' for Russians, claims MSNBC's Donny Deutsch

President Trump is a Russian asset who has laundered money for Vladimir Putin for decades, in order to save his struggling casinos, MSNBC's Donny Deutsch said on Thursday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Winston]

You are not and never worked with an attorney, yet Trump is guilty.
Kewl…

I never worked for an attorney, yet I can read an indictment. And from what is laid out in the speaking indictment, it clearly shows a very high probability of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am sure you are also aware that assets can be placed into 15,000 different categories.

Indeed. But if you classify them in two different categories depending on if you're talking to the IRS or a lender......or give wildly different values for those same assets depending on if you're talking to the IRS or a lender, you could have a problem.

Maybe there's an Occultist on youtube who could explain this to you.

you could have a problem

could being the keyword.
I know tax accountants who won't touch the tax returns of certain Rs or Ds.
But only Rs bad.

I'd consider an indictment a problem. As would most people.

It's obvious you don't know any people who own businesses.
90% of the people in my community who own businesses always have their attorneys either filing or responding to lawsuits.
the US is lawsuit happy.
The problem is that the cost is passed to the customers.

Yep. I've owned five businesses. It's perfectly normal to keep a separate spreadsheet. There is nothing wrong with agreeing with your employee that certain expenses will be paid by the company in lieu of salary. And many of those expenses are deductible.

When you see things spun this hard with no mention that some things are and some are not deductible, but they just made it sounds like it all wasn't, you know it's another Democrat just lying.

The guy in the video I showed clearly has the knowledge to know that many expenses would be deductible for the company, and yet he didn't mention that at all

Bullshit. It is not normal to keep two sets of books. And yes, there are many companies that pay employee expenses. Of course those are deductible to the company, hell, salaries are deductible. But those paid expenses must be included in an employee's income reported to the IRS, except for a very few limited exceptions.

This violation is exceptional in the sheer brazenness of it. Two sets of books with one claiming the items as a business expense and not linking it to the employee compensation, and the other actually deducting it from the stated compensation package. It is a clear tax avoidance strategy, and yes, the IRS seeks criminal indictments for such behavior. They issued 1,3330 indictments in 2015, the majority of them for tax avoidance.

 

[meaner gene]

Yes, you would still be missing better evidence of intent. But when a person has personally gained from a 15 year pattern of illegal activity for which his only excuse is to pretend he wasn't doing his job at the company he formed, owned, and ran, i think it stretches the credulity of a judge or jury.

This is where Weisselberg can either protect or indict Trump. It's no different from a mob underboss claiming that he gave the order to kill somebody, and the Don knew nothing about it. If there is somebody willing to take the fall, without some fancy legal work, it precludes charging somebody else.

 

[Winston]

Calling that keeping two sets of books is absurd and done intentionally to make it sound like something it isn't

One set of books to track employee compensation, another set to mislabel that compensation and to present to the IRS for tax purposes.


Serious felony.

It was a spreadsheet that tracked expenses the company paid for in lieu of salary. That's not reasonably called a set of "books." A set of books would mean that it's a P&L, not just a list of expenses.

1) There is nothing wrong with the company paying expenses in lieu of salary

2) Many of those expenses ARE DEDUCTIBLE. I gave a list of examples above. Internet access, phones, mobile phones, computer equipment, networking equipment, cars, gas, car repairs are just a partial list.

My businesses paid for all that stuff and more. My accountant reviewed everything and ensured that we filed taxes correctly. I clearly viewed that as part of my own compensation. There was nothing underhanded about it.

To call a list of those things a set of books is just ignorant and moronic. Obviously you like the way it sounds, which is why you say it and Democrats say it, so you'll pick it up and repeat it

You are so full of shit. Yes, all those things are deductible on a schedule C for a 1099 employee or a self-employed individual. This situation is different. Weisselberg was not a 1099 paid contract worker. He got a salary, and he had the lease paid for two Mercedes, and tuition was paid, which if it was for him would not have been taxable, but IT WAS NOT FOR HIM. He had the rent paid on an apartment, which also can be excluded from his taxable income if it was not his prime residency and he only stayed there while he worked. But it was his prime residence, he listed it as such, and it was not a convenience for the company and necessary that he live there.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yes, you would still be missing better evidence of intent. But when a person has personally gained from a 15 year pattern of illegal activity for which his only excuse is to pretend he wasn't doing his job at the company he formed, owned, and ran, i think it stretches the credulity of a judge or jury.

This is where Weisselberg can either protect or indict Trump. It's no different from a mob underboss claiming that he gave the order to kill somebody, and the Don knew nothing about it. If there is somebody willing to take the fall, without some fancy legal work, it precludes charging somebody else.

The difference being, in the mob, there isn't a mountain of documents with the boss's signature that demonstrate he was in full control of all the operations.

 

[Winston]

Calling that keeping two sets of books is absurd and done intentionally to make it sound like something it isn't

One set of books to track employee compensation, another set to mislabel that compensation and to present to the IRS for tax purposes.


Serious felony.

Fort Fun Indiana: "Serious felony."

Actually, no one has ever been criminally prosecuted for not paying taxes on all benefits.

So you stand behind spending millions of dollars for roughly $160K in taxes over a decade and a half?

Actually it is more like half a million when city and state taxes are added. Typically, a 75% fraud penalty is added to that amount, and then there is the interest. And yes, people have been indicted for not paying taxes on all benefits.

 

[Winston]

Yep. I've owned five businesses. It's perfectly normal to keep a separate spreadsheet. There is nothing wrong with agreeing with your employee that certain expenses will be paid by the company in lieu of salary. And many of those expenses are deductible.

Except expenses like $50,000 in private school tuition are NOT deductible. Not even close.

They didn't deduct it

Yes they did. Read the damn indictment or quit wasting our time and the bandwidth.

 

[meaner gene]

The difference being, in the mob, there isn't a mountain of documents with the boss's signature that demonstrate he was in full control of all the operations.

Yes, but I don't know how much paperwork Trump actually generated. He was famous for not doing e-mails, and for holding private face to face meetings, so there would be no witnesses. And of course Trumps famed sarcastic orders. Like "Russia if your'e listening..." or "Go peacefully to the Capitol"

 

[Winston]

Tax evasion is when you knowingly engage in fraudulent activities in order to avoid taxes. Making a mistake is a common occurrence but the things the Trump organization did cannot be portrayed as anything other than willful, knowing tax fraud.

Correct. And they kept internal records, apparently. Like they didn't even care that they were breaking the law. The brazenness and sheer stupidity of it is surprising. I understand the Trump family is comprised of morons with no knowledge of or respect for the law, but i would expect better from an accountant who knows the rules. I would expect at least an attempt to cover up the crimes, in case anyone came looking. But then again, we know the level of character of the people the Trumps surround themselves with.

Don't all companies keep "internal records?"

Internal books, sure. But two sets in order to cover up tax evasion? No.

Now.......cry.

The indictment doesn't mention two sets of books, moron.

Wow, we got another Trump asshole who hasn't read the indictment.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yes, but I don't know how much paperwork Trump actually generated. He was famous for not doing e-mails, and for holding private face to face meetings, so there would be no witnesses.

Yep. Probably just his signatures. A lack of minutes from board meetings would reflect poorly as well. It would demonstrate intent to hide activities.

And of course Trumps famed sarcastic orders. Like "Russia if your'e listening..." or "Go peacefully to the Capitol"

Yep. Not that i have to tell you this, but court of public opinion is different than a court of law. These people will be subpoenaed to testify under oath. So someone is going to have to call someone a liar, if that defense is attempted.

 

[meaner gene]

The indictment doesn't mention two sets of books, moron.

Wow, we got another Trump asshole who hasn't read the indictment.

He's repeating a talking point from somebody who studied the indictment. It doesn't actually say two sets of "books", but instead multiple sets of "records".

In addition the Trump organization was charged with falsifying the "records" they filed with the state of new york.

 

[easyt65]

Meanwhile Vance got Trump’s tax records like 3 months ago and produced an indictment.

What’s your excuse?

Vance has shit. not worth the paper he's working from. your excuse is orangeman bad, six years now. and still zip. Excuse me if I don't just piss on the story of orangeman bad for the 10,000 time.

BTW, are you saying the IRS sucks? hahahahahahahahahahahaha

They couldn't indicte a sitting president. Trump has always been a crook .. Don't be so puffed up.

they aren't now.

Trump paid some huge fines for money laundering when he was in the Casino business.

FinCEN Fines Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort $10 Million for Significant and Long Standing Anti-Money Laundering Violations | FinCEN.gov

www.fincen.gov

Mar 06, 2015 · March 06, 2015. WASHINGTON, DC – The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today imposed a $10 million civil money penalty against Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort (Trump Taj Mahal), for willful and repeated violations of the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA).

In addition to the civil money penalty, the casino is required to conduct periodic external audits to examine its anti-money laundering (AML) BSA compliance program and provide those audit reports to FinCEN and the casino’s …

No where does it say Trump laundered money. Fail.

Requirements for the Bank Secrecy Act are to keep accurate records a few report suspicious activity.

Trump did / does not personally run the day-to-day operations of his casinos nor does he 'keep the books'. Millionaures HIRE people to do these things.


Trump was not implicated having a hand in any of it....but you don't care about that, I know, snowflake.