The Truth about Mormons

[froggy]

I think if you were in the real world, you could see the truth about Joey.

I do. The fact that you don't believe me is irrelevant.

You do what?

 

[Skeptik]

Let's do a little math relating to the idea that there are other worlds than this one.

Astronomers tell us that there are about a hundred billion galaxies in the known universe, each with about a hundred billion stars on average.

That is 10^11 galaxies x 10^11 stars = 10^22 stars in all.

Now, if only 1% of those stars have planets, and if 1% of those planets is habitable, that is 10^22/10^4 or 10^18 habitable planets in the known universe.

Of course, those figures are probably conservative, but that's OK.

Back when the national debt was "only" ten trillion, a comparison was done. Ten trillion = 10^14 dollars, or 10^16 pennies.

So, the likely number of habitable planets is equal to 100 times the number of pennies in the national debt at that time.

Of course, the debt has grown, so now there may be only 90 times the number of pennies in the debt.

And this is the only planet with life?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Excellent points, Skeptik, and using your logic, what would be the probablity that God the Father and God the Son appear to a 14-year old boy on an insignifcant planet in a backwater solar system in a galaxy that just isn't all that important?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Let's do a little math relating to the idea that there are other worlds than this one.

Astronomers tell us that there are about a hundred billion galaxies in the known universe, each with about a hundred billion stars on average.

That is 10^11 galaxies x 10^11 stars = 10^22 stars in all.

Now, if only 1% of those stars have planets, and if 1% of those planets is habitable, that is 10^22/10^4 or 10^18 habitable planets in the known universe.

Of course, those figures are probably conservative, but that's OK.

Back when the national debt was "only" ten trillion, a comparison was done. Ten trillion = 10^14 dollars, or 10^16 pennies.

So, the likely number of habitable planets is equal to 100 times the number of pennies in the national debt at that time.

Of course, the debt has grown, so now there may be only 90 times the number of pennies in the debt.

And this is the only planet with life?

Well I hope you didn't interpret my words to mean that life on a planet like ours doesn't exist in the universe except here.
My exact words were that "our solar system" doesn't have life like ours. For the record, I believe there are innumerable worlds like ours in existence.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I don't think, Truth, they are "like ours", but I do believe the sentient species exist throughout the universe.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Excellent points, Skeptik, and using your logic, what would be the probablity that God the Father and God the Son appear to a 14-year old boy on an insignifcant planet in a backwater solar system in a galaxy that just isn't all that important?

The decision God made to appear to Joseph makes the probability 100%. Since it had been decided before the world began that he would be the boy to appear to there was no chance involved. When God decides something, the probability that it will happen becomes 100%.

Also, why do you assume this solar system is "backwater"? And why would you think a galaxy God created would be unimportant? Do you think God does unimportant things with his time? You're saying that God wasted an untold amount of years to create the milky way just to kill time. Talk about massive excessive compulsive boredom!

 

[Truthspeaker]

I don't think, Truth, they are "like ours", but I do believe the sentient species exist throughout the universe.

That seems improbable to me but... ok.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I don't think, Truth, they are "like ours", but I do believe the sentient species exist throughout the universe.

That seems improbable to me but... ok.

It shouldn't be. Our difference is only in the form that said forms sentience would take in the galaxy. You believe because of your religious belief that it would be uniform, and I believe in a God, not wanting to be bored, that would delight in complexity of form and design.

As an aside to IDers and Creationists: note what I did above. My last comment was philosophical, completely unverifiable by science. Thus, Truthspeaker and I should continue our discussion as if we were in a Humanities or Liberal Arts or Comparitve Religions class then in a science class.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I don't think, Truth, they are "like ours", but I do believe the sentient species exist throughout the universe.

That seems improbable to me but... ok.

It shouldn't be. Our difference is only in the form that said forms sentience would take in the galaxy. You believe because of your religious belief that it would be uniform, and I believe in a God, not wanting to be bored, that would delight in complexity of form and design.

As an aside to IDers and Creationists: note what I did above. My last comment was philosophical, completely unverifiable by science. Thus, Truthspeaker and I should continue our discussion as if we were in a Humanities or Liberal Arts or Comparitve Religions class then in a science class.

I too believe in a god who loves variety. That's why each human has a different appearance than any other. But I do believe he has other worlds with people like us on them on different planets with different languages, customs and societies. That's what i mean when I say "like us". I also believe there are developing worlds with life on them but no people. Much like ancient prehistoric earth.

the pearl of great price quotes God saying "Worlds without number have I created. For they cannot be numbered unto man, but they are numbered unto me, for I know them and they are mine."

 

[Liability]

A timely bump!

 

[Skeptik]

I don't think, Truth, they are "like ours", but I do believe the sentient species exist throughout the universe.

That seems improbable to me but... ok.

It shouldn't be. Our difference is only in the form that said forms sentience would take in the galaxy. You believe because of your religious belief that it would be uniform, and I believe in a God, not wanting to be bored, that would delight in complexity of form and design.

As an aside to IDers and Creationists: note what I did above. My last comment was philosophical, completely unverifiable by science. Thus, Truthspeaker and I should continue our discussion as if we were in a Humanities or Liberal Arts or Comparitve Religions class then in a science class.

The Bible says that god created man "in his own image", which would imply that sentient beings would look pretty much the same throughout creation.

But, the Bible says a lot of things that are contradictory and likely to have resulted from misunderstandings and mistranslations, so why not? Perhaps the bar scene in "Star Wars" is a better depiction of intelligent life elsewhere.

I believe I made an error in the post above. Ten trillion is actually 10^13, not 10^14, which would leave us with around 900 habitable planets for every cent of the national debt currently, not 90.

That's a lot of planets any way you look at it.

Now, here's another little bit of food for thought: Looking back on the pace of technological progress for the past thousand years or so, we see a dramatic increase in knowledge the closer we get to our own time. The technological learning curve looks like a geometric progression, in fact.

So, if there are among those countless planets some with intelligent life that is say, 1 or 2 millennia or so more advanced than we are, why couldn't they have come to visit us? Is that so far fetched?

 

[JakeStarkey]

How do we know they haven't?

 

[Skeptik]

How do we know they haven't?

We don't, do we?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Talk to Terrel and Eots and Liability.

 

[Liability]

Talk to Terrel and Eots and Liability.

Another display of Jokey dishonesty.

I have never shared the views of Turdel or Id-eots.

But, still, at least Jokey's dishonesty serves as a bump.

 

[Truthspeaker]

A timely bump!

Why do you keep bumping us? Is Huggy Bottoms still trying to approach us?

 

[Truthspeaker]

How do we know they haven't?

Everything about that last statement just looks and sounds like Dwight Schrute with one eyebrow raised.

 

[Liability]

A timely bump!

Why do you keep bumping us? Is Huggy Bottoms still trying to approach us?

I don't know. I haven't kept track of that other would-be contender.

I just like to see some folks discussing religion, once in a while, without all the sanctimony.

You seem to be able to pull that off, for example. And strikingly, in this thread, you aren't alone!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Talk to Terrel and Eots and Liability.

Another display of Jokey dishonesty.

I have never shared the views of Turdel or Id-eots.

But, still, at least Jokey's dishonesty serves as a bump.

But you, L, have been as silly as they have in defending undefendable positions.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Talk to Terrel and Eots and Liability.

Another display of Jokey dishonesty.

I have never shared the views of Turdel or Id-eots.

But, still, at least Jokey's dishonesty serves as a bump.

But you, L, have been as silly as they have in defending undefendable positions.

Which position have I taken that's indefensible?(correct usage provided by grammarnazi.com)